Looking for alternatives to Mac since Arrandale won't come out thread

[HLdan]

Savar, Apple absolutely includes trialware with their computers,

[/QUOTE]

Uh, wrong as usual JoeG4, Apple does not include any trial software with their computers. Name one. Offering Mobileme during set up is not considered trial software as no software is required to use Mobileme and it's just an "offer", there's nothing on the hard drive.

 

[dranakin]

Here you go:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Gateway-Lap...iewItemQQptZLaptops_Nov05?hash=item414dde068c

This was a deal at Best Buy back in February for $499.00. It was advertised with a i3 chip but came with an i5. A similar model goes for $899.99 today but the 5927u can be had on eBay for $600 or less. You won't find these in stores any more. I was going to jump all over this but held back as I knew I really wanted a Mac.

Reviews on it are great except for the trackpad buttons which some people had a hard time getting past. I was even thinking of picking this up for my wife.

Thanks, I remember that deal. I also was going to jump on it, but that was when I thought the new MBPs were coming out in Feb...

 

[psingh01]

Was checking out Lenovo's offerings....all I got to say is that is a very expensive dvd rom

 

[Dozerrox]

I assume that's a mistake??!

 

[coupdetat]

Dell makes very good quality computers these days. My girlfriend has a Latitude and it's really, really awesome. She only paid $700 for it refurbished from Dell.

I made the same decision as you about a year ago. I disliked my MBA, moved to a Vaio TZ which I loved, and now have a Thinkpad T61. I felt that both the Lenovo and Sony are great quality computers, but Lenovo offers service that is on par/better than Apple, while Sony service is godawful.

One of the really nice things with Lenovo is that they support many corporate buyers, so they tend not to beat around the bush. If there is an issue, they usually acknowledge and address it, unlike the months it took for Apple to acknowledge the iMac display issues.

 

[dranakin]

Hmmmm...now I'm really tempted to pick up a PC laptop and install OS X on it. Reading the tutorials, it seems like a fun project.

 

[ZSamuels28]

BUY THE ASUS G73JH-A1 or A2 ZOMG, As I said before I recently bought one, waiting for that bad boy in the mail... supposed to come on Monday! Supreme gaming.... , I'll tell you all about it when I get it. Also I think I'm gonna install Mac OSX via Virtualbox... with the speed and memory of the G73JH, I don't think it will have any lags running it.... if anyone can help me do a dual partition native and get everything working that would be cool, but I just don't see that as a possibility because it will take way too long especially since the computer is so new there might not be drivers out for the hardware :/

 

[abs1nthe]

Hmmmm...now I'm really tempted to pick up a PC laptop and install OS X on it. Reading the tutorials, it seems like a fun project.

Def. worth it if you get a model that has been proven to work well. I did it on my 1005HA before I sold it and it was excellent (sans the crappy non-mac trackpad).

 

[dranakin]

Def. worth it if you get a model that has been proven to work well. I did it on my 1005HA before I sold it and it was excellent (sans the crappy non-mac trackpad).

Hmmmm...now that I think about it, even if the new MBPs come out, it wouldn't have comparable stats with Blu Ray and HDMI at that price point. Might have to just go with the PC and then pop Snow Leopard on it.

Only major con is the battery life, which is a pretty big issue for me...what to do?

 

[JoeG4]

Savar, Apple absolutely includes trialware with their computers,

Uh, wrong as usual JoeG4, Apple does not include any trial software with their computers. Name one. Offering Mobileme during set up is not considered trial software as no software is required to use Mobileme and it's just an "offer", there's nothing on the hard drive.[/QUOTE]

iwork and the office 2008 30 day trial aren't considered trialware? My Sony came with an Office 2007 30 day trial and a norton 30 day trial.

2 pieces of trialware in both cases. Your point?

 

[HLdan]

[/B]
Uh, wrong as usual JoeG4, Apple does not include any trial software with their computers. Name one. Offering Mobileme during set up is not considered trial software as no software is required to use Mobileme and it's just an "offer", there's nothing on the hard drive.

iwork and the office 2008 30 day trial aren't considered trialware? My Sony came with an Office 2007 30 day trial and a norton 30 day trial.

2 pieces of trialware in both cases. Your point? [/QUOTE]


Why don't you stop posting while you're ahead, which seems to be never on this forum. iWork trial does not come preinstalled on any Mac nor does Office 2008.

 

[jjahshik32]

My alternative instead of an arrandale is the current 2.8GHz 15" (antiglare) uMBP Core 2 duo models.

I dont care if anyone saids its outdated, Arrandale wont be that much faster anyway. =)

I just care about the screen mostly! This display is perfect and gorgeous!

 

[hellojamie]

I had great luck with my HP... had it for three and a half years and it only gave me minor headaches. We had a patch about two years in where it bluescreened a lot one month, but it self-resolved and the only reason I switched to a Mac was because something malfunctioned in the battery connection and it refused to function as a laptop anymore.

It had great power and specs, even with it being a little outdated when I bought it. (Thank God it was, though, I missed the mandatory Vista "upgrade.")

Despite it not meeting the gaming specs of a lot of newer games, it still managed to install and run The Sims 3 just fine- I don't know, that impressed me. That an old computer with a 60GB harddrive and comparable specs could still handle a game like that. It was like the little guy said, "Screw what the box says, I can do it!"

I wouldn't give up my Mac for the world, but I have a lot of love in my heart for HPs, and it's the only PC laptop I would ever buy again. I've had terrible experiences with both Toshiba and Vaio.

 

[alent1234]

iwork and the office 2008 30 day trial aren't considered trialware? My Sony came with an Office 2007 30 day trial and a norton 30 day trial.

2 pieces of trialware in both cases. Your point?

Why don't you stop posting while you're ahead, which seems to be never on this forum. iWork trial does not come preinstalled on any Mac nor does Office 2008.[/QUOTE]


compare that to the flashing lights that is a dell/hp out of the box. 10 security programs all flashing buy me that you can't uninstall

 

[alent1234]

1. Time Machine / Time Capsule
2. Laptops are slimmer than their counterparts from Dell, HP or Lenovo.
3. Mac OS X is great as said by many. Windows 7 is just an XP with a new face and old internals.
4. My entire household is Mac only with occasional Windows programs that we run as VM.

^^^ That would do it for me.

Windows 7 has nothing in common with XP since its the same kernel as Windows Server 2008 R2. MS was working on Windows 7 before XP was released

 

[kny3twalker]

Based on this post alone, can anybody explain to me why the Macs are considered "overpriced"? I mean, honestly, what's so "Elite" about the Elitebook and the Dell Lattitude to justify spending much more over their lower line that has better specs? This is the same argument we get thrown at the Macbooks but nobody is complaining that the Elitebooks and Lattitudes are overpriced. Anyone care to explain?

Because no one compares MacBook Pros to these notebooks. They compare them to plastic nightmares with crap for support, and they think Apple should be priced similar. Also HP, Dell and Lenovo are not much quicker to update, but this time they have mostly, so the hardware is more current. So there is less to complain about the specs.

 

[kny3twalker]

iwork and the office 2008 30 day trial aren't considered trialware? My Sony came with an Office 2007 30 day trial and a norton 30 day trial.

2 pieces of trialware in both cases. Your point?

Mine came with neither iWork nor Office 2008 pre-installed, and I bought mine from the Apple Store (not CTO).

Where did you get yours?

 

[CP123]

I have five Macs in my house, and none came with trialware.

 

[Scottsdale]

Sony Vaio Z is twice the computer as the current 13" MacBook "Pro"-less. Look at how great the Vaio Z is, and it weighs in at 3 lb. It has up to a Core i7-620M CPU (up to 3.33 GHz)! It uses hybrid graphics with a far superior Nvidia 330 GT WITH 1 GB of DEDICATED VRAM! How about Blu Ray for a computer that's really from the 21st Century, available via an optional upgrade (and that's all anyone expects from Apple... include it but charge more if you have to... at least let your users who want and need Blu Ray have it). How about a "higher definition" 1600 x 900 display! Up to 512 GB SSD! 8 GB of RAM for only $300! Nice aluminum with carbon fiber case or option for all carbon fiber to reduce weight. Seven or eleven hour battery. SD Card slot, Express Card/34, ProDuo Card reader, Verizon 3G built-in, HDMI, and 3 USB ports. Sure it's more money, but Sony is willing to let its customers get the exact experience they want with plenty of BTO options that allow a wide range of customers laptop NIRVANA.

Windows 7 has far better application compatibility. Windows 7 is now darn near equivalent to OS X Snow Leopard. Sure Windows has the Virus problem, but that's easy to avoid by avoiding bad sites and stupid downloads. On the other site, Windows is pretty solid and stable now especially when manufacturers use SOLID COMPONENTS WITH SOLID DRIVERS. The drivers is where people have always had problems with Windows. Companies like Sony and Dell know how the hardware components work and how to avoid conflicts. In addition, they're using solid drivers that are well written and avoid system problems. Where people struggled in the past with Windows was hardware compatibility and driver problems when installing a new component or peripherals. The thing is Apple doesn't even try to make compatible hardware. Apple writes as few of drivers as is imaginably possible. It even uses one Nvidia GPU across every Mac less the Mac Pro. So, when using good components with well written drivers that don't conflict with one another or the system's configuration, WINDOWS IS JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN OS X SNOW LEOPARD. The Sony Vaio Z even has the option to be shipped without trial ware.

This has 2x the capabilities of the current MacBook Pro and it weighs as little as the MacBook Air. All I am saying is Apple better answer quickly and have all of the OPTIONS for its users to buy the MBP they really need, or want, whether it's for work use as a professional grade Mac, a gamer, an enthusiast, a prosumer, a consumer, and even a business executive. Seriously, Apple needs to stop denying the Blu Ray and add it as an OPTION. Apple can make all of the money it wants on these extras but its customers want the options. Why not appeal to everyone who wants to buy the MBA? There are plenty of technologies to make everyone happy if Apple only gave a damn about its end users and their experience. Sell more and make more for the AAPL shareholders too!

Come on Apple! Give us ALL the Mac notebooks we want and are willing to pay plenty of extra money for all of the options we want. Charge insanely high prices to make your margins on the options but give us some real options!

 

[CP123]

Sony Vaio Z is twice the computer as the current 13" MacBook "Pro"-less. Look at how great the Vaio Z is, and it weighs in at 3 lb. It has up to a Core i7-620M CPU (up to 3.33 GHz)! It uses hybrid graphics with a far superior Nvidia 330 GT WITH 1 GB of DEDICATED VRAM! How about Blu Ray for a computer that's really from the 21st Century, available via an optional upgrade (and that's all anyone expects from Apple... include it but charge more if you have to... at least let your users who want and need Blu Ray have it). How about a "higher definition" 1600 x 900 display! Up to 512 GB SSD! 8 GB of RAM for only $300! Nice aluminum with carbon fiber case or option for all carbon fiber to reduce weight. Seven or eleven hour battery. SD Card slot, Express Card/34, ProDuo Card reader, Verizon 3G built-in, HDMI, and 3 USB ports. Sure it's more money, but Sony is willing to let its customers get the exact experience they want with plenty of BTO options that allow a wide range of customers laptop NIRVANA.

Windows 7 has far better application compatibility. Windows 7 is now darn near equivalent to OS X Snow Leopard. Sure Windows has the Virus problem, but that's easy to avoid by avoiding bad sites and stupid downloads. On the other site, Windows is pretty solid and stable now especially when manufacturers use SOLID COMPONENTS WITH SOLID DRIVERS. The drivers is where people have always had problems with Windows. Companies like Sony and Dell know how the hardware components work and how to avoid conflicts. In addition, they're using solid drivers that are well written and avoid system problems. Where people struggled in the past with Windows was hardware compatibility and driver problems when installing a new component or peripherals. The thing is Apple doesn't even try to make compatible hardware. Apple writes as few of drivers as is imaginably possible. It even uses one Nvidia GPU across every Mac less the Mac Pro. So, when using good components with well written drivers that don't conflict with one another or the system's configuration, WINDOWS IS JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN OS X SNOW LEOPARD. The Sony Vaio Z even has the option to be shipped without trial ware.

This has 2x the capabilities of the current MacBook Pro and it weighs as little as the MacBook Air. All I am saying is Apple better answer quickly and have all of the OPTIONS for its users to buy the MBP they really need, or want, whether it's for work use as a professional grade Mac, a gamer, an enthusiast, a prosumer, a consumer, and even a business executive. Seriously, Apple needs to stop denying the Blu Ray and add it as an OPTION. Apple can make all of the money it wants on these extras but its customers want the options. Why not appeal to everyone who wants to buy the MBA? There are plenty of technologies to make everyone happy if Apple only gave a damn about its end users and their experience. Sell more and make more for the AAPL shareholders too!

Come on Apple! Give us ALL the Mac notebooks we want and are willing to pay plenty of extra money for all of the options we want. Charge insanely high prices to make your margins on the options but give us some real options!

With such a glowing review of the Z and Windows, why in the world would you even consider getting a Mac?

 

[JoeG4]

Habit, I've purchased many Macs over the years, and am usually fairly loyal to Apple, they've treated me pretty decently as a customer.

I've had:
* 2 PowerMac G4s
* 2 PowerMac G5s
* 1 PowerBook G4
* 1 iMac G4
* 2 MacBooks
* 1 iMac Core Duo

I've been using Mac OS X since 10.0.4, had a few iPods, and helped a bit with some mac/ipod projects out there. Certainly, loyalty plays a big fat role in my purchasing decisions. Likewise, I purchased a Chrysler, love the car, and when time comes to buy another car, I'll see what the next 300C is like and probably buy one.

I don't see why you make such a big deal about it. To put it this way, if this thread pisses you off, I don't believe you understand the people that decide to "go to the dark side."

Things change! When I bought my first PowerMac, Apple was a quirky little company that nobody cared much about. They produced some things that were distinctively ahead of their time and different. I remember that you could buy any computer Apple made from 98 to about 2003, and if someone saw it their first response would be "Is that a computer?"

Ten years later, if you crossed your eyes you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a MacBook Pro and an HP Envy. Apple gave up on the iMac G4 design, and turned it into a slab just like the others' products, and turned the iBook from the funny looking toilet seat, into a generic white brick.

Looks aside, the hardware updates are seemingly less often, and with the evidence of the 6th "waiting for arrandale" thread, decidedly not inline with what customers demand.

Put it this way, right now buying a MacBook Pro, is like buying a PowerBook G4 was immediately after Apple announced the Intel switch. The Mac Pro and iMac have moved on (in part) to the Core i7 architecture, so why haven't the MacBook Pros?

 

[anothernoob]

Was checking out Lenovo's offerings....all I got to say is that is a very expensive dvd rom

Thinkpads are great, but Lenovo's website and customer service are really bad.

I got tired of waiting and ordered a T410s a month ago, and it's still not here! There are people who have been waiting for 2 months and still haven't got theirs. They keep pushing the delivery dates back, and when I call to ask what's going on, the CS rep didn't have any more info than the website. I'm giving them one more week, but it's not here by then, I'm cancelling the order and I'll start waiting for the MBP update again.

Anyway, I would recommend the T410s, if they would actually start shipping it. core i5, nvidia switchable graphics, 14" 1440x900 screen, very thin (~.82 inches), light (~3.9lb), all in a durable thinkpad body. But none of this is helpful if they don't actually have the product ready.

 

[Scottsdale]

Are there any PC laptops out there that:

a) do not come with stickers on them
b) do not come with trialware pre-installed

I'm not married to Apple, but these seem like to very basic requirements that nobody else can deliver.

I took a look at the Vaio Z, and although most of the specs are sweet, I still can't justify spending $1900 (base price) for a laptop and then spend the first 2 hours peeling off stickers and reinstalling windows.

The Sony Z can come without any bloatware for $0 added cost. In addition, there aren't any stickers to take off. You will not even need to reinstall Windows, but it really isn't a big deal to take a few stickers off of a notebook if it meets all of your needs. The thing about Windows is it's now pretty damn solid with Windows 7. It has a lot of the same types of features as OS X and some of those features are incorporated into a better user interface than OS X.

A Sony Z is expensive, but it's far more laptop than Apple can provide you even with its PRO series. The MBP shouldn't dare be called PRO, especially in the 13" and low-end 15" varieties. What Pro, who needs a professional-grade laptop, could honestly get their work done with a current 13" or low-end MBP? With Dell's Precision and HP's EliteBooks, you have real workstation level professional-grade laptops. The MBP's GPU SHARES 256 MB of RAM, and it's not sufficient for true professional-grade computing. Apple put FireWire in it and said, "it's a Pro!" All that's different from the current MB is a FireWire port and an aluminum case... how does FireWire equal PRO?

The Sony Z even has an optional 11-hour battery. With its hybrid graphics, it uses the Arrandale GMA for low-level graphics tasks and the Nvidia 330 GT kicking in for high-level graphics tasks. You have real graphics performance well beyond what the 9600 GT can provide, and an on-the-fly hybrid solution saving battery when possible and driving a real graphics system when necessary.

I think there are many alternatives to Macs that are extremely stable, perform excellently, and will meet the users needs for many years.

However, I personally love the look of the MacBook Air. I am not a professional grade computer user. I am fine with an ultraportable, but I need some of the things to make it fast enough and its graphics have to be better than an Intel IGP. I absolutely need an SSD. I absolutely need it to be ultraportable and around the footprint of a 13" laptop as I travel very frequently. I would most enjoy Apple removing optical drives from the MBP and making them look a lot like the MBA! I would love to buy an MBP, but they have to drop some weight and losing the optical drive is a start. Probably have to lose some battery too. If Sony can get to 3 lb. with better components than the MBP, and an optical drive, AND an 11-hour battery, why cannot Apple get to a 3.5 lb MBP? I sure hope these updates are worth our wait. If they aren't, I will happily spend the money and switch back to a PC. However, I really want Apple to take my money.

 

[MIBUK]

I will definitely place my order for a Sony Vaio Z if there is no new release of the Macbook Pros. Our budegt ends at the end of March, so we have to spend the money, otherwise I would consider waiting. However, my new laptop will be used for business and the difference between a new Macbook Pro and a Sony Vaio will not mean the difference between doing a good job or bad job.

From my perspective, Apple have flirted with the business world with their range of Mac computers, but it seems that while the loyal consumers continue to buy their computers in large quantities at premium prices, there is no reason for them to push more sales towrads the business market as they are doing very well. Remember, Nokia sells 10's of millions more than Apple, but Apple makes more profit than Nokia. And that is what its all about..... to make a profit.

I'm sure Apple will surprise everyone with their new release of Macbooks and I'll look enviously at them, but I'm sure that the Sony Vaio will satisfy most of my needs.

The Windows 7 vs OSX is a pointless argument. They both have their advantages and at least with Windows, they have created a standard environment globally, which has benefited eveyone. Could you imagine a world where we have multiple different types of OS, each one with a small % of the market? It would be a nightmare. Windows serves its purpose and OSX serves its purpose. So, agree to disagree and enjoy whatever platform that works for you.

 

[AgentZero]

Why is half of the threads called something with "... thread"? This is a message board, what else could it be?
OP: Get the current MBP

So I guess you're the kind of person who doesn't mind paying 2010 prices for a 2008 model. Man, it's no wonder car salesmen *love* you.