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Lost TV show (Part 2) -- includes spoilers on show nights
- Thread starter Doctor Q
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I noticed after the bomb went off and the screen turned white during the commercial for next season there is a quick shot of what appears to be a female opening her eyes in surprise. I'm guessing this is Juliet opening her eyes to see she isn't dead after the explosion.
I still think "Locke" is the smoke monster. That or Richard is. He doesn't seem to get old but neither did Jacob.Maybe he's a lost soul locked up on the island as a different entity. And Jacob was telling him the new survivors are coming for him.
Nice twist on the Dexter guy being Jacob.
Excellent ending to a good season .
I still think "Locke" is the smoke monster. That or Richard is. He doesn't seem to get old but neither did Jacob.Maybe he's a lost soul locked up on the island as a different entity. And Jacob was telling him the new survivors are coming for him.
Nice twist on the Dexter guy being Jacob.
Excellent ending to a good season .
West coaster checking in...
I am pondering two questions:
1. The Locke who returned with Jack et al. is apparently still dead. But rather than being an imposter, could the other Locke be the real Locke as well, but one who time traveled to this time so he could take Ben to Jacob?
2. Could the white flash be a shift in time rather than a nuclear explosion? We heard what sounded like an explosion, but with all the flying metal pulled in by magnetism the boom could have been from that, while the light could have been the same light we've seen during time shifts.
As usual, we can't be sure what we know and what we don't know.
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4 8 15 16 23 42
I am pondering two questions:
1. The Locke who returned with Jack et al. is apparently still dead. But rather than being an imposter, could the other Locke be the real Locke as well, but one who time traveled to this time so he could take Ben to Jacob?
2. Could the white flash be a shift in time rather than a nuclear explosion? We heard what sounded like an explosion, but with all the flying metal pulled in by magnetism the boom could have been from that, while the light could have been the same light we've seen during time shifts.
As usual, we can't be sure what we know and what we don't know.
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4 8 15 16 23 42
I thought this was Jack's eye from the Pilot
Not too sure, will have to take a look... I just dead (on youtube) and it's Jack's. I remember that shot like the back of my hand, I've seen it waaaay to many times.I loved this episode, I laughed (Vincent!), I teared up (Juliet, Charlie's ring
) I screamed... well the screaming was due to the fact that the show went out for about 30 seconds when they entered the statue... I mean WTF?! Could they have picked a better time to screw up? Anywho.... I'm not sure what to think about fake Locke. I was thinking he was the other guy that we saw in the beginning and he somehow took over Locke. How? I dunno... I also thought about a Smokie connection (maybe he is smokie or Flocke is smokie) but the only thing I don't like about that is that the newbies have his dead body. When we saw Eko looking for Yemi the body was gone and we later see smokie as Yemi. Does smokie need the body? I thought so but just a theory.
Not sure what to think of the newbies. I think they are anti-Widmore since they were trying to sway Miles but that doesn't make me believe they are pro Ben. Then again at this point Ben seems really insignificant.
So way to go Juliet! I dunno how I feel about that... for some reason when Jack was leading it I hated it and didn't want him to do it but when Juliet grabbed the rock I felt like she needed to. Don't know why I had the change of heart because the characters switched, but yea. I hope it doesn't just "go back" to as if it never happened I would hate that. Besides if it never happened then those people wouldn't be at the statue and it would just be a SNAFU. There's gotta be a catch. There's always a catch.
I'm thinking season 6 will focus on the war which I think follows Jacob v. the other dude. He needs a name. There's so much more here that we've yet to see that will blow our minds.
Loved the white LOST screen. Gave me the chills. Well everyone enjoy their Lost withdrawal because sadly/thankfully it is the last one we will ever have.
That's the loophole for smokie. He found a body. Locke's. Then traveled in time.
I'm guessing the first episode next season will be called something like "the loophole"
I'm guessing the first episode next season will be called something like "the loophole"
Interesting points Doc.
1. I think so. My question is just how? I was thinking he could be from the future and traveled back to 07 but how would he be alive post 07 in order to travel back? And if it was Locke before he was dead and time traveled forward how does he have the knowledge about Jacob and all the things he was saying? I think that flocke is either the dude we met in the beginning or is somehow being controlled by that go. Just rewatch it and imagine that dude saying everything flocke says and it makes sense. Maybe the loophole is that he can't kill Jacob but only the leader (or former leader?) can kill him. And since everyone was all gung ho and lovey dubby over Jacob that was never a problem... just thinking out loud here, dunno.
2. I think so. I always thought in the beginning/mid way though this season that somehow it was going to end with a flash bringing everyone back together... like I initially thought once Locke brought back the people who left the island would work some magic and bring the timelines back to normal and everyone would reunite. Obviously that didn't happen, but we do know that the electromagnetism has something to do with the time traveling. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that whatever happened between the electromagnetism and bomb somehow causes a change in time or whatever and either fixes time (Jack and co. travel to 07 where the should be) or we go with what Daniel says and 815 never crashes.
Interesting ... now circle back to what Ben said that whoever moves the island can never return. Ben moved it, and he's back. Does Locke's monkeying with the wheel qualify that he moved it as well, which then begs the question, if there are two Lockes, could there be two Bens?
mt
I have to agree with you on this. I don't think that this explosion (or time shift flash) kills the losties and here's why.
A couple episodes ago, Sun asked Richard if he remembered the people in the 1977 Dharma picture and he said yes. He said (something close to) "because I watched them die".
I don't think Richard was anywhere near Jack, Kate, Sawyer, or Juliet when the explosion happened. This would have to mean that they die some other way, right?
I do have some other things that I think I put together this morning:
1) The cabin that Rose and Bernard where living in is the same cabin that Ben said Jacob lived at.
2) I believe the place where Richard made the hole in the wall in the tunnel to let Jack and Sayid though with the bomb was the place that Ben used a while back to summon "the monster". Remember, he went through a hole in the wall in his house into some tunnel and drained some water.
If Juliet was successful in detonating the bomb, and that prevents the Swan station from being built, which prevents Oceanic 815 from crashing, which would prevent Jack, Sayid, Juliet, et al from going back in time to detonate the bomb.
I hate time paradoxes. They make me headachey.
I have never seen time travel dealt with well. I'm really hoping that of all people, the Lost writers will handle it appropriately.
Also - I'm pretty sure Juliet is dead. She's the confirmed lead for another show next season. Fortunately, it's an ABC show, so that doesn't mean she might not make some sort of appearance on Lost again.
I hate time paradoxes. They make me headachey.
I have never seen time travel dealt with well. I'm really hoping that of all people, the Lost writers will handle it appropriately.
Also - I'm pretty sure Juliet is dead. She's the confirmed lead for another show next season. Fortunately, it's an ABC show, so that doesn't mean she might not make some sort of appearance on Lost again.
It was really obvious though, Kate(ies) hair hadn't changed a bit and Sawyer was a blond kid at the funeral of 2 people.
But what a spectacular episode. Reminds me a lot of the ending to Half Life 2 and the intro to HL2 Episode 1. I should have questions and lots to talk about but all I can really say is that I enjoyed that
.If that was the case then Juliet is going to be stuck underground, or will she since the other Losties wouldn't be there to put the nuke there in the first place, meaning she'd wake up on the day of the plane crash and nothing would happen.
All I can say to a time paradox is beans on toast.
Yes, it's frustrating to watch and not hear a single character come to that conclusion or even entertain that question.
1. Now that I've slept a bit, I'm back and forth on the issue. Locke knew exactly when to send Richard down to tell him he must die. Could it be to avoid a paradox in time or was it to get the real Locke out of the picture? I still think Locke may be the other guy though, since he told Jacob he found the loophole. How would he have known that unless Locke was working with the other guy all this time. We thought nobody ever saw Jacob, but yet he was in everyone's lives.
2. Again, I'm not sure about this, since the flashes usually were accompanied by the loud sound that made them all cover their ears. I don't think the bomb went off, but I guess we'll have to wait until next season until we know for sure.
Just when you thought you had it figured out, they throw a curve at you! LOL
When Juliet detonates the bomb, that is what really happened in the past. If this means that the Swan station is gone and there is no more magnetic pocket, then yes, flight 815 didn't crash in 2004. But Juliet still detonated the bomb in 1977 and everything with the losties in 1977 happened. That will be the new past.
I also think maybe this new Locke is really smokey and can take on the appearance of those who have died. He did a great job manipulating Ben into killing Jacob. Just like he did when he took on the form of Ben's dead "daughter" and was able to manipulate Ben into doing whatever "Locke" said. Ben has never been a real leader. He has been a tool that is manipulated to do what Smokey wants done.
I think Smokey is the man who spoke with Jacob on the beach. The loophole is that even though he may be able to take on some human form, that form is not truly real and cannot cause harm to Jacob. It needs someone else to do it for them.
I think Smokey is the man who spoke with Jacob on the beach. The loophole is that even though he may be able to take on some human form, that form is not truly real and cannot cause harm to Jacob. It needs someone else to do it for them.
Maybe, the new Locke is still Locke, but the loophole is that he had to have a new body. So Locke died, and since The island cant bring back from the dead, but it can give life to a new body. But for sure the loophole is Locke had to change bodys to come back to life(on the island).
I think I've got it
Based on the final episode of season 5, I think I have the underlying plot of Lost. In essence, it is the ultimate force of good versus evil, with Jacob being the force of good (almost like god), and the man he's talking to in the intro being the force of evil (almost like satan). Notice their shirts are colored white and black, respectively (I realize how this sounds, but Lost is very detailed). When they are discussing about the other man's "Theory" (which I believe is that humans are naturally flawed or evil), it sets up the next season's war as a battle between good and evil. Essentially, the whole show is about a grand experiment between good and evil.
Jacob brings the Black Rock and Flight 815 to the island to prove that there are good humans in the world, hense the lists identifying the "good" people, who are listed. Jacob also heals Locke, and shows good nature and compassion to each of the Losties he visits, demonstrating his kindness.
The other man deceives and lies his way into killing Jacob, identifying with his true evil nature. I don't think he is the Smoke Monster.
The Smoke Monster is it's own entity and either a tool of the island, Jacob or both Jacob and the other man.
Based on the final episode of season 5, I think I have the underlying plot of Lost. In essence, it is the ultimate force of good versus evil, with Jacob being the force of good (almost like god), and the man he's talking to in the intro being the force of evil (almost like satan). Notice their shirts are colored white and black, respectively (I realize how this sounds, but Lost is very detailed). When they are discussing about the other man's "Theory" (which I believe is that humans are naturally flawed or evil), it sets up the next season's war as a battle between good and evil. Essentially, the whole show is about a grand experiment between good and evil.
Jacob brings the Black Rock and Flight 815 to the island to prove that there are good humans in the world, hense the lists identifying the "good" people, who are listed. Jacob also heals Locke, and shows good nature and compassion to each of the Losties he visits, demonstrating his kindness.
The other man deceives and lies his way into killing Jacob, identifying with his true evil nature. I don't think he is the Smoke Monster.
The Smoke Monster is it's own entity and either a tool of the island, Jacob or both Jacob and the other man.
That is a really good theory, Cursor. That would also explain all the other references to black and white through out the whole series.
Jacob's last words are what interest me, "They're Coming". i dont think that he was referring to the people that were there outside the statue. i think he was talking about Kate, Sawyer, Jack, Sayid, Hurley, and Jin. He visited all of them. he did so probably knowing that his black shirt enemy was going to eventually succeed and kill him. And that one of them was was going to take his place possibly. This makes the black shirt guy upset and that is why he kicks him into the fire.
I'm with Cursor, I think this is an epic good versus evil story in the style of Judeo/Christian or Greek mythology. And I'm contimually amazed at just how intricate the storyline is. I do have to say that I still wonder if this was where the story was going at the beginning of the series, or if the writers have just done a masterful job at evolving the story as the series has caught on. Think about it, they could have easily ended it after season 2 if they'd wanted to, with the 815'ers rescued (well some of them) that could have been it. But the series has been immensly popular and I can't help but think that they've had to be incredibly creative in keeping the story going. We haven't gotten into this crazy quasi religious stuff until the past two seasons and not really heavily until the middle of this past season. But I'm certainly expecting the final season to be incredible.
So here's my theory, and it goes along with the good versus evil. Jocob is the representative of good, or at least some sort of god like individual who goes about doing good and who feels that humans are inherently good at heart. The other guy who was conversing with Jacob at the beginning of the finale is representative of the force of evil. Now I don't think he was evil to begin with, I just think that he feels that Humans are evil at heart and I think that he's concerned that Jacob's interest in humans will upset some sort of ideal situation that they have on the island. So he sets out to prove to Jacob that humans are evil and dangerous at heart. Hence the associations with folks like Locke and Ben, (Ben really is evil, or at least he's willing to do anything for power, Locke is just curious and easily fooled I think and as a result became a tool).
Now after the ending of the finale last night, when I saw Locke's body in the crate I realized somthing that made me come to my conclusion. Does anybody think that this black shirted evil person also took up Christian's body? Christian came to the island originally as a corpse (as far as we know) and has been influencing Locke ever since. It was Christian who was in that shack in the jungle once or twice in the past few seasons, it was Christian who explained to Locke how he was to get off the island to bring the others back, and now that Locke's corpse is back I think it was Christian who took Locke's form.
What do you think about that?
SLC
So here's my theory, and it goes along with the good versus evil. Jocob is the representative of good, or at least some sort of god like individual who goes about doing good and who feels that humans are inherently good at heart. The other guy who was conversing with Jacob at the beginning of the finale is representative of the force of evil. Now I don't think he was evil to begin with, I just think that he feels that Humans are evil at heart and I think that he's concerned that Jacob's interest in humans will upset some sort of ideal situation that they have on the island. So he sets out to prove to Jacob that humans are evil and dangerous at heart. Hence the associations with folks like Locke and Ben, (Ben really is evil, or at least he's willing to do anything for power, Locke is just curious and easily fooled I think and as a result became a tool).
Now after the ending of the finale last night, when I saw Locke's body in the crate I realized somthing that made me come to my conclusion. Does anybody think that this black shirted evil person also took up Christian's body? Christian came to the island originally as a corpse (as far as we know) and has been influencing Locke ever since. It was Christian who was in that shack in the jungle once or twice in the past few seasons, it was Christian who explained to Locke how he was to get off the island to bring the others back, and now that Locke's corpse is back I think it was Christian who took Locke's form.
What do you think about that?
SLC
I agree. Dead is dead according to the show. Mr Evil (as I will refer to him as for now) is taking on the form of people who are believed to have had strong leadership or influential roles. He's been Christian, Ben's daughter, Locke, Eko's brother.... who else did I miss?
He uses these identities to make other people do the bad things he wants to prove they are capable of doing. He cannot do it himself, but he can twist others into doing it.
I thought the same thing about Richard and what he sad to Sun. I posted my thoughts on it elsewhere but the gist was this. It would be interesting if what Richard thought was them dying was just them flashing back to the present. There was an explosion at the site (and this was "The Incident") and everyone was presumed dead that was there (which would be the Losties & Juliet & Molis) because their bodes were gone, and so they didn't change anything; everything played out exactly how it was supposed to, always has and always will.
After all, we saw how Chang lost his arm.He was at the Swan site when the electromagnetic pocket was hit. I don't think you can change what happened. I'm thinking as time like a movie, you can fast forward in and rewind it and you'll see different parts of the movie. However, the movie can't just change because we rewound it and are watching the same scene again. The people in the movie will do whatever they did the first time we saw it because what's done is done - you can't change someting that's already happened. That's at least how I see it.
1. Nope, not the same cabin. Jacob's cabin was built by Horace (at least that's what we are supposed to believe) and his cabin was much more inland.
2. I think this could be true.
Loving the ideas coming from the forum. This show since the beginning has been a battle between two people. Jack/Locke, Ben/Widmore, Jacob/(Guy). It looks that is the family tree so to speak. I'm digging the idea that Christian was actually the other guy. Christian was manipulating people on the island for some agenda which we assumed was simply the island's or jacob's, but maybe it was part of setting up the loophole. I'm struggling to decide if the final speech by Ben was in fact the true Ben we've been dying to discover... a man guilty of too much faith. I remember reading a article with JJ Abrams were he said at then end of the season they'll be done with all the time travel stuff, and they'll move on with a season ending game changer which I assume is the explosion and death of Jacob. I agree also on the fact that Jacob's "there coming", refers to Jack, Sawyer, Kate, and the rest in the 70's.
Didn't the smoke appear as Walt once?
Also, I'm thinking that the reason the "others" knew so much about Jack and friends is because of meeting them in the past. Richard already knew their names, so he could put together files on them to use against them in the future. So, I'm thinking the past can't be changed and all they did is make everything happen. No one was killed in the blast at the end but rather, as someone else stated, the flash was just them going back to the future. It make sense too now that it was a test of good vs evil. They passed the ultimate test of giving their lives to save others. Its like the whole thing was a game between Jacob and the evil guy who appears to others to tempt them to do his bidding.
I like this. It's like somehow, getting them to detonate the bomb was a test, and because they did it they return back to their "present" lives which is why Jacob said "they're coming." That's definitely interesting.
We're going to have to go back and look at all the apparations we've seen... I ahd compeltely forgotten about Walt in the season 3 finale when he appears to Locke in the dharma pit. "You've got work to do" which was to stop the freighter people. Who are the apparations? The smoke monster, Jacob or anti-Jacob?
It's gonna be crazy re-watching the serries once it's over and seeing everything make sense.
huh i kinda of like your idea about the 70's being a test of some sort. orchestrated by Jacob perhaps? If this were the case then maybe that was an alternate 1977 that was just a test. So ultimately what they did there didnt matter.
Also lets assume the evil guy did take control of Locke's body. It also seems everyone pretty much assumes that he took control of Jack's dad Christian. But what is confusing about that is when Jack breaks open his father's coffin the body isnt in there. that is where it gets a little fishy for me. In one instance mr. evil just took over a body, Christian, but in the Locke's case he just "transformed" into Locke? That is what doesnt sit well with me.
Also lets assume the evil guy did take control of Locke's body. It also seems everyone pretty much assumes that he took control of Jack's dad Christian. But what is confusing about that is when Jack breaks open his father's coffin the body isnt in there. that is where it gets a little fishy for me. In one instance mr. evil just took over a body, Christian, but in the Locke's case he just "transformed" into Locke? That is what doesnt sit well with me.
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