Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Lost TV show (Season 6) -- includes spoilers on show nights
- Thread starter Doctor Q
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
You sure?
Wasn't Claire holding him?
ETA: I just gotta say that the scene with the pouring rain, Jack and Flocke running at each other on the cliff and Jack's flying down-punch was epic. Very Matrix-esque.
Yeah, Claire was holding him when Jack was reuniting with everyone and giving everyone hugs.
The baby Aaron was in the church. So I'm guessing Claire died right after Aaron was born.
Attachments
Claire didn't die right after Aaron was born. She was alive as of the end of the episode (in the real time-line) and could have gone on to live for another fifty years for all we know...
But back to my original question: if Aaron was in the Church, that means he clearly wasn't a representation of anything (like Jack's son) but a real "dead soul" (like the other people there). So are they telling us that the best time in Aaron's life and were he'd choose to spend the afterlife is there with those people as a baby?
OR - is what's going on in that church in the afterlife going on in hundreds or even thousands of other "churches" in purgatory with people coming together after they've died, and Aaron can actually be in two of these places at once?
I'll answer that question a la LOST. "There is no now, there is no here." You figure everything else out.
In all honesty, the island is what connected everyone in the room "it was the most significant time of their lives", therefore they remember Aaron as a baby.
Again... TV reality.
Keeps from having to introduce a character we've never seen and having to say, "This is Aaron."
Its awful. Not only here, but 90% of people i talked to just completely ignored everything Christian said, and i'm getting tired of explaining it all over and over
I should just transcribe Christian's little speech and start handing out fliers.
If I had to guess I'd say it's more of a personal purgatory for Jack since the closing of the episode focused on his death. The people he met up with after his father introduced him to the reality that he was, in fact, dead were the people that had impacted him the most in his life and were representations of those people during the time that they played those roles in his life, which is why Aaron was still an infant.
In this mindset, one could believe that each character had their own personalized purgatory. This theory kind of plays against Desmond collecting everybody up throughout the past episodes but it is the most logical explanation for this situation IMO.
Just watched Jack dying again and imho Matthew Shepard ( DO'H ) FOX deserves an Emmy for this episode alone.
[edited for correction and before anybody says anything Jimmy Kimmel did the same thing last night so THERE!! ]
[edited for correction and before anybody says anything Jimmy Kimmel did the same thing last night so THERE!! ]
Yeah, I was sort of viewing it as the purgatory instead of Jack's purgatory.
If you think each person had this same kind of experience when they died (which is getting into territory where the writers don't really give us clues one way or another so it's all speculation) than I buy Aaron.
But as I said, I got the feeling that everyone coming together at the end was not the focus of any one character (Christian said "you all choose this" or something similar). Once they were in that church, there were no props (fake sons) or illusions (sideways reality) but just the people from the island wanting to be together in the afterlife. While Aaron was an important figure, I can't imagine he would choose to spend the afterlife as a baby with Mom and Uncle Charlie and not be in his own "purgatory church" in some other part of the great beyond with his own cast of friends from later in life. For this to be true, one needs to believe that any one person in the church could also be in a similar situation elsewhere in the afterlife at no specific age with no specific group of people.
No.
Claire was still alive on the Island and she got on the plane with Kate.
Claire died sometime in the future after the Island events, probably reunited with Aaron. Aaron probably grew up, had a full life, and died in his time as well.
The alternate timeline/church isn't concerned with when.
Aaron should have been three years old at the church. Jack saw him grow up. So why was he a baby?
A few questions/comments:
- I'm having some trouble with Ben. In the "flash-sideways", or limbo as we've come to discover, contact with certain people/things allows these "souls" to regain their memories. OK, fine. But Ben did lots of really bad things, especially to Alex. Won't her memories of Ben be some good (she was her adoptive father in the original time line after all) and really horrible (he basically let Keamy kill her)? How does he find redemption there? If at all? Wouldn't Rousseau then see Ben as her daugther's de-facto killer as well? I don't think Ben's storyline had adequate resolution... maybe in his role as Hurley's No. 2, he redeems himself... but we don't get to see that. Highly unsatisfying in my opinion.
- Speaking of Alex/Rousseau... how is it that their contact in limbo hasn't triggered their memories returning? How would re-triggering their memories (and therefore moving on to "Heaven") be in any way better than what they have in limbo?
- This "magical" energy at the heart of the island. How does it go from being a magical, beneficial force when it's corked to becoming a completely destructive force when uncorked? Are the Lost writers trying to say that too much of a good thing is bad for you? I'm just confused what the nature of this energy could be that it could be do so much good in low doses (remission of Rose's cancer) to be so bad in high doses (turning Jacob's brother in to the Smoke Monster).
- Finally, this is nagging at me the most: if uncorking the energy source turned both Jack and Fake-Locke mortal, shouldn't re-corking it return Jack to being immortal? Ok, maybe once he passed the protector mantle on to Hurley, he loses this immortality status. Fine, I could live with that. But when he re-corks the energy source and the water starts to flow into the pool again, shouldn't his contact with the energy when he first re-corked it (which would then be at low levels), be of the beneficial nature and heal him, thus allowing him to escape the chamber? If not, then how does he even survive long enough to walk back to the bamboo forest and die?
I knew going in to this episode that the writers were not going to be able answer every single thing... but they did leave some fairly large answers unresolved.
Oh, though of one more:
- By bringing Locke's body back to the island, the Man in Black found a "loophole" and was able to kill Jacob. Well, didn't he take over Christian Shepherd's body too? And why wasn't his taking over of Christian Shepherd's body sufficient to create this Jacob-killing "loophole"? There was nothing special about Locke in season 1-5... even when he became the leader of the Others, he wasn't granted any special status like Richard Alpert. So what made Locke so special that his body allowed MIB to create a Jacob-killing loophole and not any other?
I did like the episode overall, but some of the unanswered questions are still nagging at me... for all of the supposed planning and forethought the writers had in creating this series, I wish they would have focused a bit more on some questions that they just seemed to throw away without a care.
- I'm having some trouble with Ben. In the "flash-sideways", or limbo as we've come to discover, contact with certain people/things allows these "souls" to regain their memories. OK, fine. But Ben did lots of really bad things, especially to Alex. Won't her memories of Ben be some good (she was her adoptive father in the original time line after all) and really horrible (he basically let Keamy kill her)? How does he find redemption there? If at all? Wouldn't Rousseau then see Ben as her daugther's de-facto killer as well? I don't think Ben's storyline had adequate resolution... maybe in his role as Hurley's No. 2, he redeems himself... but we don't get to see that. Highly unsatisfying in my opinion.
- Speaking of Alex/Rousseau... how is it that their contact in limbo hasn't triggered their memories returning? How would re-triggering their memories (and therefore moving on to "Heaven") be in any way better than what they have in limbo?
- This "magical" energy at the heart of the island. How does it go from being a magical, beneficial force when it's corked to becoming a completely destructive force when uncorked? Are the Lost writers trying to say that too much of a good thing is bad for you? I'm just confused what the nature of this energy could be that it could be do so much good in low doses (remission of Rose's cancer) to be so bad in high doses (turning Jacob's brother in to the Smoke Monster).
- Finally, this is nagging at me the most: if uncorking the energy source turned both Jack and Fake-Locke mortal, shouldn't re-corking it return Jack to being immortal? Ok, maybe once he passed the protector mantle on to Hurley, he loses this immortality status. Fine, I could live with that. But when he re-corks the energy source and the water starts to flow into the pool again, shouldn't his contact with the energy when he first re-corked it (which would then be at low levels), be of the beneficial nature and heal him, thus allowing him to escape the chamber? If not, then how does he even survive long enough to walk back to the bamboo forest and die?
I knew going in to this episode that the writers were not going to be able answer every single thing... but they did leave some fairly large answers unresolved.
Oh, though of one more:
- By bringing Locke's body back to the island, the Man in Black found a "loophole" and was able to kill Jacob. Well, didn't he take over Christian Shepherd's body too? And why wasn't his taking over of Christian Shepherd's body sufficient to create this Jacob-killing "loophole"? There was nothing special about Locke in season 1-5... even when he became the leader of the Others, he wasn't granted any special status like Richard Alpert. So what made Locke so special that his body allowed MIB to create a Jacob-killing loophole and not any other?
I did like the episode overall, but some of the unanswered questions are still nagging at me... for all of the supposed planning and forethought the writers had in creating this series, I wish they would have focused a bit more on some questions that they just seemed to throw away without a care.
Which is why I believe it to be more of a personal thing for Jack rather than a general purgatory.
This is probably obvious but I don't understand:
Jack and Hurley both agreed to protect the heart of the island, or the light, so why did they lower Desmond down there to pull the cork? Was it to break Flocke's immortality?
If so, how did they know that would be the outcome?
Edit: Sorry for the double post. Figured somebody would get a word in before I was finished.
Jack and Hurley both agreed to protect the heart of the island, or the light, so why did they lower Desmond down there to pull the cork? Was it to break Flocke's immortality?
If so, how did they know that would be the outcome?
Edit: Sorry for the double post. Figured somebody would get a word in before I was finished.
Jack and FLocke weren't sure what the outcome would be but they both knew Desmond was the only person that could survive the light.
This is probably obvious but I don't understand:
Jack and Hurley both agreed to protect the heart of the island, or the light, so why did they lower Desmond down there to pull the cork? Was it to break Flocke's immortality?
If so, how did they know that would be the outcome?
Edit: Sorry for the double post. Figured somebody would get a word in before I was finished.
Jack answered this. He said he didn't believe Jacob would want Desmond there unless he would be able to help him so he didn't believe MIB was right about Desmond being able to destroy the island. He had faith that whatever Desmond did down there, it was going to be necessary for them to come out on top (and it was).
Just my thoughts on your points...
There was no resolution for Ben, not yet. That's why he told Hurley he was going to stay outside for a while. For all the reasons you listed and more Ben was not ready to move on. It was supposed to be unsatisfying because he hadn't reached his "peace" yet.
They weren't the biggest of characters, so I'm guessing that, like Ethan, they had important parts in the limbo area, but weren't dealt with because of their relative insignificance. However, these moments of realizations started out, for each character, slowly, with little remembrances. When Rousseau is in the kitchen with Ben you get the feeling that he (and maybe she) is having a sort of deja vu, for lack of a better word.
Put simply, in my opinion, the energy of the cork is separate from the energy that was being corked.
The loophole was not that MiB was taking over Locke's body. The fact that he was appearing as Locke was almost incidental. The loophole was getting Ben (i.e. someone other than MiB himself) to kill Jacob. Wearing Locke's body merely facilitated this.
Speaking of Locke's body one, on of my favorite lines from the finale was the line where Jack says something to the effect of "You disrespect his memory by wearing his face" or something similar. It really showed Jack's relationship to Locke well.
Correct, and I believe jack says something to this effect.
There was no resolution for Ben, not yet. That's why he told Hurley he was going to stay outside for a while. For all the reasons you listed and more Ben was not ready to move on. It was supposed to be unsatisfying because he hadn't reached his "peace" yet.
They weren't the biggest of characters, so I'm guessing that, like Ethan, they had important parts in the limbo area, but weren't dealt with because of their relative insignificance. However, these moments of realizations started out, for each character, slowly, with little remembrances. When Rousseau is in the kitchen with Ben you get the feeling that he (and maybe she) is having a sort of deja vu, for lack of a better word.
Put simply, in my opinion, the energy of the cork is separate from the energy that was being corked.
The loophole was not that MiB was taking over Locke's body. The fact that he was appearing as Locke was almost incidental. The loophole was getting Ben (i.e. someone other than MiB himself) to kill Jacob. Wearing Locke's body merely facilitated this.
Speaking of Locke's body one, on of my favorite lines from the finale was the line where Jack says something to the effect of "You disrespect his memory by wearing his face" or something similar. It really showed Jack's relationship to Locke well.
Correct, and I believe jack says something to this effect.
I stopped watching lost at the end of season two when I realized that the plot was going nowhere.
I am so glad i did, hours of my life saved from the peril of trying to figure out what the hell the writers meant, while the writers themselves laughed themselves silly thinking about the dumb masses wasting their time with this stupid show.
How it should have ended, (season should have been over in season 2)
Little black boy is Jesus and cannot die, his presence creates a singularity vortex in space and time where everything is screwed up. So quit trying to make sense of anything.
Jack and Kate get married by Jesus.
The Numbers are the magic sequence that controls DNA sequencing and life itself. These special numbers are keeping the planet's electromagnetic stasis, when they are no longer entered, the planet ends its existance leaving only Jesus floating in space to begin a new world again.
I am so glad i did, hours of my life saved from the peril of trying to figure out what the hell the writers meant, while the writers themselves laughed themselves silly thinking about the dumb masses wasting their time with this stupid show.
How it should have ended, (season should have been over in season 2)
Little black boy is Jesus and cannot die, his presence creates a singularity vortex in space and time where everything is screwed up. So quit trying to make sense of anything.
Jack and Kate get married by Jesus.
The Numbers are the magic sequence that controls DNA sequencing and life itself. These special numbers are keeping the planet's electromagnetic stasis, when they are no longer entered, the planet ends its existance leaving only Jesus floating in space to begin a new world again.
This is why I asked a little earlier if that was the "real" Danielle and Alex or if they were just "props" like Jack's son. Because if they were real, I can't see anything good coming out of them remembering their past with Ben
There was all sorts of contact between island characters that didn't trigger anything. It had to be very specific to set things off.
I don't think "cork" is the right word for what we saw in the finale. I think people are using it because of Jacob's speech earlier in the season about the island being a cork. That stone was more of a "plug" that was preventing the liquid/light from falling through that hole in the pool. When it was unplugged, it all drained out (to who knows where) and there was just darkness. No water. No light.
You answered your own question about Jack, since he passed on leadership to Hurley before he fixed the light. And the contact with the water seemed to just teleport him outside of the cave (which is what it did to MIB after Jacob throw him in, only with one major consequence that Jack didn't seem to experience - turning into a smoke monster).
They certainly did.
The loophole was getting someone else to kill him (Ben), not turning into Locke.
And he wouldn't have been able to convince Ben to kill Jacob if he was in his own body, or Christian's, or pretty much anyone else.
I agree with you for the most part. Wasn't a bad episode, but not a fitting way to end such a great series, in my opinion.