That's a really good point. It is weird that Apple have a half-committed approach to the thing. Perhaps Mojave will make better use of it
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Love TouchBar thread discussion [merged]
- Thread starter PhilMacbook
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That's a really good point. It is weird that Apple have a half-committed approach to the thing. Perhaps Mojave will make better use of it
I completely agree. Although I’m pro Touch Bar, it becomes glaringly apparent how much Apples effort into it is lacking. It’s almost embarrassing what you can do with simple script commands that Apple fails to bake into the OS after three years of its inclusion.
Perhaps the Touch Bar would get more love if they actually put that effort into it, but right now they just don’t appear that be invested in that.
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They probably would have highlighted it at WWDC if it was getting improvements. :-(
I do not own BTT. You don't need it to configure the Functions keys to be displayed statically, nor to customize layout. Like I said previously, it takes seconds to research how to customize the layout. I wouldn't say it isn't fully baked, and it is highly useful to me.
Agree to disagree - I've used the TouchBar quite a bit on a work computer - I'm not new to it or unfamiliar with the situation and have formed my opinion with plenty of hard data from my own real world usage.
We just see this quite differently it would appear.
I'm not sure how you can say your backing what you said up with hard data when you stated you needed BTT to configure the Touch-bar but sure, whatever... we definitely see this differently.
The point was that it's shame that the consumer has to download an app like BTT to enhance the TB with features that should be readily baked in to the OS by Apple, which is a completely valid point. Especially considering the premium price that comes with the TB.
No his point was that it is a shame you have to download BTT to get useful functionality from the Touch-bar, which is untrue.
I think with the way he worded the first sentence it could be misread as such, but I believe @turbineseaplane is referring to the fact that Apple “half-baked” the functionality of the bar, instead leaving it mostly in the hands of the developers, which leads to a less than satisfactory experience for most without a third party apps. To this point I can see and agree with this, that Apple could have thought through a little more programmability built into the OS itself.
But I think the Touchbar isn’t leaving the pro anytime soon, and personally I find it helpful and more useful than a function keyset. I never have used the function keyset heavily on my Mac. On Windows that’s a different story, I can’t work anywhere near as efficiently without a function keyset when using Excel or other Microsoft suite programs, so I can certainly see how Mac users might have an issue with their software when the function keys are removed. But for a large group of buyers, the Touchbar is more useful than function keys, it would just be nice if Apple provided more built-in customization options.
Hopefully we will see some game changing functionality to the touch bar in 2019 when iOS touch based apps merge with macOS.
I keep seeing the terms "hopefully" and "in the future" all the time with respect to the mbp's. It's all wishful thinking, wishy washy adspeak glossing over the crippled functionality and non functionality of usb-c and touchbar.
These design decisions are all about superficial esthetics which destroy day to day usability and convenience.
These design decisions are all about superficial esthetics which destroy day to day usability and convenience.
Touchbar is alive and well in Cupertino:
https://insights.dice.com/2018/06/07/wwdc-2018-macbook-touch-bar-lurking/
https://insights.dice.com/2018/06/07/wwdc-2018-macbook-touch-bar-lurking/
This is an interesting read, thanks for sharing! I guess we will wait and see how developers utilize the Touch Bar with the increased backend programability.
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Was talking to someone about how I was disappointed Apple didn't make an external keyboard with Touchbar. He pointed out to me that it was problematic, because the T1/T2 chip that runs it in the MacBook really needs to be on the main logic board for the security and the other functions it performs, especially if it were to run a TouchID (or future FaceID). Could be done, but would require a redesign, and make the keyboard complicated/expensive.
Then he said, "but, really, does it need to be on the keyboard? Wouldn't a touch bar under the main screen of an iMac actually make a lot of sense?" You would have to reach a little more, but your eyes wouldn't have to leave the screen. And it would somewhat fill the disconnect between people saying they want touch-screen functions on the Mac, and Apple saying the two modes of interaction need different UIs.
The rumors are saying the new iMacs this fall will have "big changes" to the display, and Apple is also working on their own displays again, after abandoning them some years ago...
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Was talking to someone about how I was disappointed Apple didn't make an external keyboard with Touchbar. He pointed out to me that it was problematic, because the T1/T2 chip that runs it in the MacBook really needs to be on the main logic board for the security and the other functions it performs, especially if it were to run a TouchID (or future FaceID). Could be done, but would require a redesign, and make the keyboard complicated/expensive.
Then he said, "but, really, does it need to be on the keyboard? Wouldn't a touch bar under the main screen of an iMac actually make a lot of sense?" You would have to reach a little more, but your eyes wouldn't have to leave the screen. And it would somewhat fill the disconnect between people saying they want touch-screen functions on the Mac, and Apple saying the two modes of interaction need different UIs.
The rumors are saying the new iMacs this fall will have "big changes" to the display, and Apple is also working on their own displays again, after abandoning them some years ago...
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That's essentially a touch screen Mac at that point.
I mean - why have a Touch Bar "just under the screen"?
That would be totally inferior to going up just a bit and interacting with the actual content.
Apple insists this is a bad ergonomic experience, especially on the desktop.
They have a reasonable argument about that on desktop - not so much on laptops IMO.
Plus they argue against themselves by saying a touchscreen MacBook would be bad, but somehow an iPad propped up in the same orientation with an external keyboard is "great!" - "please buy our expensive 1st party keyboard case to do just that."
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Ergonomics is not Apple's main argument (and I think less of an issue with a Touchbar that you interact with discretely instead of continuously). There are a lot of UI-design differences when designing for a mouse versus a finger: bigger, wider-spaced elements; compensating for the finger covering other things; dealing with scrolling, dragging differences, etc. I think a lot of what I consider some of the ugly elements of Windows 10 are because of such compromises.
Ack... I think I should have refrained from my post -- conjecture wasn't the original intention of this thread... sorry. This really belongs somewhere else...
TouchID is fantastic and if I could get one with only this and not the TB, I'd do it in a second. But as you say, ain't gonna happen. After 2 years of using the TB I feel exactly the same way about it: not only do I not like it, I dislike it, because I was a heavy user of the function keys. I programmed them to launch applications and perform other tasks and now that's impossible.
Still, I'd be reluctant to get a non-TB version simply because of how much I like Touch ID. I use 1Password and have a very long master password and Touch ID is worth it for this alone.
For an extra $300 you can buy an Apple Watch to go with the non-Touchbar to unlock your computer, although of course that won’t help with the 1Password logins.
I usually use my MacBook Pro in clamshell mode, docked...honestly, it’s almost a waste. I like it when I use it as a laptop, open, and would gladly buy a wireless Apple keyboard that has a touchbar.
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You can always get more battery life if you want the weight...strap a UPS to your back...
Fair points.
Thats all on them though.
They absolutely could have done the work to change and adapt Mac OS for touchscreens long ago.
I have warmed to the TB in the last year or so but it will only blossom with the cross-porting of iOS apps. I would have put a wager down on TB being included in the iMac Pro just so that Apple could signal their intent with MacOS & iOS mix. It's omission from an almost 'price no object' device did dint my confidence somewhat.
I think thee would've been a LOT better alternative to TB:
Replace fn keys with a fewer physical keys with small OLED screens in each with one wide touch sensitive block in the middle. Maybe 3 + 1 + 3 arrangement. The buttons could be app specific and STILL one could easily use them without looking. And the wide block could show more data, scrollable navigation etc.
That would've thrown away fn keys but the end result would've been intuitive and efficient to use with no need to actually look at the keys.
Replace fn keys with a fewer physical keys with small OLED screens in each with one wide touch sensitive block in the middle. Maybe 3 + 1 + 3 arrangement. The buttons could be app specific and STILL one could easily use them without looking. And the wide block could show more data, scrollable navigation etc.
That would've thrown away fn keys but the end result would've been intuitive and efficient to use with no need to actually look at the keys.
You can't unlock 1Password on your Mac via your watch though, for example, or any other app that supports Touch ID on the Mac. Or use it to authenticate in the App/iTunes store when making a purchase. Or use it for Apple Pay in Safari etc. etc. As an avid user of the unlock-via-watch feature, I have had plenty of situations where I wished I still had Touch/Face ID on my Mac.
And of course not all MBP users even have an Apple Watch.
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Same, I only visit at certain points (product releases) I often feel I am posting on a Microsoft forum asking about Apple products on here
You know why the forums are negative lately? Because many long term Apple customers who have spent many thousands of dollars investing in the platform are not happy with the products.
If they work for you, fine. But sending Apple feedback is like talking to a wall.
So it ends up on the biggest apple forum on the internet.
Re Apple lack of commitment. This is not a new thing. Back in 2011 thunderbolt was promised to give us external processing such as eGPU, linking machines together etc.
Apple did nothing with it. For 6-7 years. 2 upgrade cycles.
In 2013 the new Mac Pro was touted as being the best big thing. Apple did nothing with it. No upgrade path, again no thunderbolt accessory support. Nothing.
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