I appreciate consistency. I don't like having to re-learn an interface when going from a laptop to a tablet for example. That's just my take though. I appreciate consistency, not everything being the exact same.
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Loving Liquid Glass—but macOS needs to catch up
- Thread starter iFanaddic
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Shameless plug, but absolutely related. Seems like we got a bit off topic here anyway. 😅
Opinion: The Liquid Glass design language will need to reintroduce some colors at some point.
I don't see any liquid glass in most of the screenshots. Textures are just as bland and flat, colors are just as stark and painful as they have been since Big Sur.
What I do see is more rounding, increased to absurd levels; more whitespace; and more floating elements with clumsy shadows.
What I don't understand is the eradication of titlebars and the "chrome" elements of application windows. All desktop UI's should have a titlebar and the chrome separating buttons and menus from the main window content. Otherwise, you get these transitions while scrolling with a bunch of blurred content at the top. It just looks ridiculous.
Of course, it also allows for no visual cues separating window elements that should be separate.
What I do see is more rounding, increased to absurd levels; more whitespace; and more floating elements with clumsy shadows.
What I don't understand is the eradication of titlebars and the "chrome" elements of application windows. All desktop UI's should have a titlebar and the chrome separating buttons and menus from the main window content. Otherwise, you get these transitions while scrolling with a bunch of blurred content at the top. It just looks ridiculous.
Of course, it also allows for no visual cues separating window elements that should be separate.
It looks less flat on the iPhone, at least to me. The 3D perspective wallpaper on lock screen (yes, I am aware the ill-fated Amazon Fire Phone had a similar gimmick) and the liquid glass clock fits in very nicely with the weather live wallpaper I have set. I also appreciate a less-flat control center. The main screen icons have far more depth, and the Camera icon is a nice touch. Gotta start somewhere, at least I hope it's only the beginning of something much nicer ahead and won't stop with where it is now (a taste, but never the meal, some shine, but never the whole gloss) or worse, the folks who want flat design to stick around FOREVER have some say and send enough feedback to Apple for them to revert the attempt entirely. There was a lot more skeuomorphism in Big Sur in beta than in the final product, because of those flat design-lovers.
I'm just sick of flat UI design. I was sick of it in the '80s and have despised it coming back and sticking around for the last 12 years. It irks me when anyone calls skeuomorphism 'dated' and flat 'modern' as to me it's the other way around. Either those people are too young to have experienced the hell that was Tandy DeskMate or Windows 1.0, or are ignorant of it. I was there. Flat was the thing because we only had 256-640KB of RAM, and Hercules Graphics. Today we have the tech to do amazing feats. Imagine if video games of the last 12 years had decided to ditch 3D and go with 8 or 16-bit graphics and suddenly people call that 'modern' and 3D graphics 'dated.' It'd be just as crazy.
Is it wrong for me to want to enjoy my phone like I did when I got handed a 3GS in 2010 (replacing a Nokia 5185i) instead of wanting to never use it because the UI feels like work now? Skeuomorphism made me want to interact with it, touch it, but now the UI just makes me want to get everything done FAST and put it away before I get a migraine.
I'm just sick of flat UI design. I was sick of it in the '80s and have despised it coming back and sticking around for the last 12 years. It irks me when anyone calls skeuomorphism 'dated' and flat 'modern' as to me it's the other way around. Either those people are too young to have experienced the hell that was Tandy DeskMate or Windows 1.0, or are ignorant of it. I was there. Flat was the thing because we only had 256-640KB of RAM, and Hercules Graphics. Today we have the tech to do amazing feats. Imagine if video games of the last 12 years had decided to ditch 3D and go with 8 or 16-bit graphics and suddenly people call that 'modern' and 3D graphics 'dated.' It'd be just as crazy.
Is it wrong for me to want to enjoy my phone like I did when I got handed a 3GS in 2010 (replacing a Nokia 5185i) instead of wanting to never use it because the UI feels like work now? Skeuomorphism made me want to interact with it, touch it, but now the UI just makes me want to get everything done FAST and put it away before I get a migraine.
It seems there are two sorts of people in this discussion
Some want to enjoy a visually rich UI, like the UI itself is what the device is for
Others want the UI to be functional and stay out of their way so that they can enjoy using the applications they use to do whatever it is that they use the device for
That's a different matter altogether. A GUI and games serve entirely different purposes. And to say that current 'flat' designs are the same as those from Windows 1.0 - come on.
These two factors - aesthetics and usability - are closely related and interdependent.
Part of using an application is taking in the visual cues that it presents on the screen. If it is too dense or sparse in presentation, it becomes more tedious to interact with. If the colors are too bright or too dark, your eyes are strained and the experience is unpleasant. If the elements are too undifferentiated, you spend more time thinking about what is selected, what actually can be selected, and where something begins and ends.
And yes, a certain part of it is purely a question of whether or not this is something you actually want to look at for hours at a time.
People spend a lot of time customizing even basic things like terminals, fonts, etc.
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They exist in different times but flat design is flat design and going back to it even in a modern sense still feels like a throwback to DeskMate and Windows 1.x. The only thing today is we do not have the same excuses we had in the '80s, such as the limited hardware of the time. I saw flat give way to something much nicer and then iOS 7 happened and everyone copied it. If there were somewhere else to go I would. There's no reason I should be forced to relive that nightmare twice.
If they want to go back to the '80s start with music and movies/TV, lord knows those need major help these days.
Music and Movies have been doomed on purpose. Apple does not want you to use local music. iTunes was too comfortable without paying a subscription.
You do understand that your complaints about ui design are, just like your complaints about music and movies/tv, are only about your own personal preference right?
Agreed, however it seems different people find different types of interface more usable than others
For me, liquid glass makes macOS and iOS less usable
One parallel is the concept cars manufacturers put out from time to time. They often look interesting, perhaps even "fun", but I wouldn't want to drive one down to the shops every day, or for picking up the kids from school with their sports' kit and unexpected gaggle of friends.
Liquid Glass is like that for me: an interesting concept, but not something I want to drive every day.
And those are your own personal views, just as mine are too. There's no reason we have to have everyone on the same flat UI forever and ever. People all have various preferences and there's ways to satisfy most or all of them.
I would posit that liquid glass dissatisfies most people
Poll here was running about 80/20 against last time i looked
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To be fair, the Aero Glass on Vista got a lot of negative traction due to computers of that era having insufficient graphics power to run it... Otherwise, it was well received.You probably mean Windows Vista yeah, although dated, somehow this feels so like liquid glass done right compared to what i’m seeing now
I am liking the new Liquid Glass.
My only issue with Vista was its well-known at the time WiFi bug 'unidentified network local access only' which seemed more game-breaking than hardware limitations. It looked great but not being able to use the internet basically made it useless. Windows 7 never had that issue.
I think this is Windows 10 themed to look as Vista. Regardless, it's a well done recreationYou probably mean Windows Vista yeah, although dated, somehow this feels so like liquid glass done right compared to what i’m seeing now
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wasn’t Panther the one that introduced the brush metal windows to Finder and Safari that everyone “HATED”?
I mean, hated…
Apple: Lose the Brushed Metal
I think Apple is really going overboard with its brushed metal applications. The future of computing is synonymous with "lite", not "heavy". Yet Apple continues to release applications with a texture that is sterile, unimaginative, bulky, and boring to look at. Furthermore, it seems to...
macosx.com
Brushed Metal Archives - 512 Pixels
Brushed Metal is perhaps the worst chapter in Apple’s recent design history.
512pixels.net
Daring Fireball: Brushed Metal and the HIG
daringfireball.net
again, just a narrative that everything used to be great and everything now is bad because “Steve good, Tim bad”.
even though in 2003 people were complaining about apples user interface just as much as they’re complaining now.
“Brushed metal” is called “Liquid Glass” but almost all of the complaints are the same.
Sure, there are always going to be people that don't like the way things look or just don't want change. Just saying I am in the camp of "of all the interfaces of Mac OS X, 10.3 looked best to me".wasn’t Panther the one that introduced the brush metal windows to Finder and Safari that everyone “HATED”?
I mean, hated…
Hated…Apple: Lose the Brushed Metal
I think Apple is really going overboard with its brushed metal applications. The future of computing is synonymous with "lite", not "heavy". Yet Apple continues to release applications with a texture that is sterile, unimaginative, bulky, and boring to look at. Furthermore, it seems to...
Hated.Brushed Metal Archives - 512 Pixels
Brushed Metal is perhaps the worst chapter in Apple’s recent design history.
Daring Fireball: Brushed Metal and the HIG
again, just a narrative that everything used to be great and everything now is bad because “Steve good, Tim bad”.
even though in 2003 people were complaining about apples user interface just as much as they’re complaining now.
“Brushed metal” is called “Liquid Glass” but almost all of the complaints are the same.
Remember that Aqua started to go away in Lion, a release Steve fully was in charge of. Specifically, the iOS like scrollbars.wasn’t Panther the one that introduced the brush metal windows to Finder and Safari that everyone “HATED”?
I mean, hated…
Hated…Apple: Lose the Brushed Metal
I think Apple is really going overboard with its brushed metal applications. The future of computing is synonymous with "lite", not "heavy". Yet Apple continues to release applications with a texture that is sterile, unimaginative, bulky, and boring to look at. Furthermore, it seems to...
Hated.Brushed Metal Archives - 512 Pixels
Brushed Metal is perhaps the worst chapter in Apple’s recent design history.
Daring Fireball: Brushed Metal and the HIG
again, just a narrative that everything used to be great and everything now is bad because “Steve good, Tim bad”.
even though in 2003 people were complaining about apples user interface just as much as they’re complaining now.
“Brushed metal” is called “Liquid Glass” but almost all of the complaints are the same.
I got a PowerBook G4 that runs 10.2 and thought it looked great. The flat dock reminded me of Sequoia's dock. I do wish those Aqua scrollbars could be used today in liquid glass form vs. the same old flat ones we've had for 12 years. I hoped they'd make those glass too.
I do miss those old traffic lights though. I've had enough flat design, and I had enough back in the DeskMate days too.
Yes, or something in between or blended together. Aqua refined/hi tech/modern but, still Aqua. Somebody has the design talent to do it.
Yep.
And while he obviously wasn’t there for Scott’s firing and Johnny’s takeover, I wouldn’t be shocked to find out that Steve had a hand in the earliest talks of the iOS 7 era flattening, given that apple is usually working on the next several operating systems at the same time.
Tahoe even in Beta 2 is my favorite macOS since Snow Leopard.
On an M4 Max everything is flying for me, fast, almost no bugs, new UI looks pretty great with some minor issues in a few places that will get cleaned up and it is remarkably stable – I've written some code for Safari today and got customization work done with ~5 apps going at once pretty hard without a hitch at all other than Music elegantly crashing once.
At Apple, I'm pretty sure it's known now that Steve was extraordinarily laser-focused on Siri during the last months of his life, I'd wager most of Lion except iCloud decision making was delegated (and it was also by far the worst macOS post 10.2).
If Steve lived I don't think Launchpad would have survived a single major release afterward, it was so obviously a regression from dashboard.
On an M4 Max everything is flying for me, fast, almost no bugs, new UI looks pretty great with some minor issues in a few places that will get cleaned up and it is remarkably stable – I've written some code for Safari today and got customization work done with ~5 apps going at once pretty hard without a hitch at all other than Music elegantly crashing once.
At Apple, I'm pretty sure it's known now that Steve was extraordinarily laser-focused on Siri during the last months of his life, I'd wager most of Lion except iCloud decision making was delegated (and it was also by far the worst macOS post 10.2).
If Steve lived I don't think Launchpad would have survived a single major release afterward, it was so obviously a regression from dashboard.