M2 Air Disappointing Thermal Design

[oneMadRssn]

These might be unpopular opinions but:
1) The Air is for users who won't even notice this kinda thermal throttling because they are just web browsers and music listeners and word processor typers. And if you are expecting something harder and sustained, you already know enough to look up to a MBP or something else honestly.

2) The chip runs super cool for the performance it gets, not really even needing a heatsink/heatpipe/vaporchamber/fan. The fact it can fire up and do anything at all without a cooler is already pretty impressive. Sure it can get to 108C or whatever with aggressive things like Cinebench, but that is not the intended use case for a device like this, and honestly 108c with no heatsink is crazy good. As a PC Gamer and PC builder, any Intel or AMD chip without a Heatsink will kill itself in minutes. The fact M2 can operate in all scenarios without dying is impressive IMO.

Agreed.

In this vien, I wish the reviewers / testers would design some real-world tests for the realistic corner cases.

For example:
It's 40C in Britian and Phoenix regularly hits 100F+ in the summer. Would the MBA be able to work with 15 browser tabs, an email app, one video playing, Microsoft Office, and Slack open all at once while sitting outside in the sun with an ambient air temp of 100F?

It can easily reach 150F inside of a car on a hot summer day, and of course anything will be too hot to use there, but how quickly can it come down once removed? If we leave a MBA (closed, sleeping) in 150F ambient temperature car for 3 hours, and then quickly bring it into a 80F ambient temperature room and immediately open it and starting using it (same as above), how quickly will it cool down from 150F to an acceptable temperature?

 

[Aka757]

I don't see it that way. As far as I can tell, Chromebooks only display a maximum of 2 windows at a time, and I regularly use more than 2, and it's inefficient having to adjust my work flow to accommodate this OS limitation. For the same reason, I wouldn't switch from MBA to an iPad Pro.

Another area where an MBA is more capable is local storage. I have 1TB of it, and that's overkill, but point is I can access files in the absence of a working internet connection, and have it backed up to an external SSD, and it's all available more or less instantly.

Then there's also the convenience of macOS integration with iOS. It's handy being able to answer the phone from the computer when I can't find the phone. And being a web developer, it's very useful being able to use desktop Safari Web Inspector on an iPhone Safari browser tab.

This post will be TLDR if I keep writing about all the things I do regularly, but here's a list of apps I use daily:
VS Code, Slack, Discord, Edge, Chrome, Safari, Terminal, Upwork (that's a freelancing site time tracking app that's not available in ChromeOS). There are 3 browsers because a web developer has to support all 3, and probably Firefox as well. Some other apps I use frequently are Photoshop Elements, Preview, Pages, Cyberduck (FTP), iOS Simulator, and it's not uncommon that I have to use 3 apps simultaneously on a given task.

That is fair. The Chromebook comparison wasn't the best, you're right. The point I was making by saying "more capable Chromebook" was that the tasks that a Chromebook user will perform, are likely a lot of the same tasks that a MBA user will perform. That's not to say that the MBA capabilities are the same as a Chromebook, I agree it is significantly more powerful and has several distinct advantages over a Chromebook. I use Apple laptops for a lot of the reasons you bring up (especially integration with iOS).

I am thinking the millions of people like my Dad: he uses a laptop for nothing more than emails, simple spreadsheets, and web browsing. Others in the Apple ecosystem will also enjoy the benefit of being able to use FaceTime and iMessage. For those folks, perhaps a Chromebook will not suffice and so I appreciate your post, but something like an iPad likely would suffice (assuming their use case doesn't really benefit from one OS over the other). Regardless, it won't stop them from getting a MacBook Air, even though it's overkill. Hell, even my use case is light and could be handled by the entry-level iPad, but I am ordering the M2 MBA because I want the new design. It isn't rational, but then again a lot of consumers aren't rational.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I see the MBA is a more capable Chromebook (as in, it's possible to do some light / infrequent photo editing and video editing, even if that's not its intended primary use case). But regardless, regardless of whether Apple positions and prices it as a Chromebook competitor or not, the fact of the matter is this is Apple's best-selling laptop, and that is how the vast majority of users will be using this machine. I would also argue that the purpose of marketing is not to inform users of what the laptop should be used for, but to sell the laptop. I'm thinking they show a variety of use cases to show buyers that it can be used for different things, but that is purely to attract a wider audience, and not to prove a point that it is capable of replacing a professional-grade machine.

it can do way more than that. Sorry it just can.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

That is fair. The Chromebook comparison wasn't the best, you're right. The point I was making by saying "more capable Chromebook" was that the tasks that a Chromebook user will perform, are likely a lot of the same tasks that a MBA user will perform. That's not to say that the MBA capabilities are the same as a Chromebook, I agree it is significantly more powerful and has several distinct advantages over a Chromebook. I use Apple laptops for a lot of the reasons you bring up (especially integration with iOS).

I am thinking the millions of people like my Dad: he uses a laptop for nothing more than emails, simple spreadsheets, and web browsing. Others in the Apple ecosystem will also enjoy the benefit of being able to use FaceTime and iMessage. For those folks, perhaps a Chromebook will not suffice and so I appreciate your post, but something like an iPad likely would suffice (assuming their use case doesn't really benefit from one OS over the other). Regardless, it won't stop them from getting a MacBook Air, even though it's overkill. Hell, even my use case is light and could be handled by the entry-level iPad, but I am ordering the M2 MBA because I want the new design. It isn't rational, but then again a lot of consumers aren't rational.

For your dad, the M1 or M2 MBAs are extreme overkill. But since that is the lowest level that Apple sells, it'll have to do.

 

[daavee80]

I see the MBA is a more capable Chromebook (as in, it's possible to do some light / infrequent photo editing and video editing, even if that's not its intended primary use case). But regardless, regardless of whether Apple positions and prices it as a Chromebook competitor or not, the fact of the matter is this is Apple's best-selling laptop, and that is how the vast majority of users will be using this machine. I would also argue that the purpose of marketing is not to inform users of what the laptop should be used for, but to sell the laptop. I'm thinking they show a variety of use cases to show buyers that it can be used for different things, but that is purely to attract a wider audience, and not to prove a point that it is capable of replacing a professional-grade machine.

The M2 Air is faster than an i9 Macbook Pro 16 and is much faster than my 4Ghz 6 core i5 desktop pc that I use daily for heavy multitasking, CPU-intensive audio work, photo editing and much more.

People have to reevaluate how they perceive the Air, as if it that hasn’t been apparent enough with Apple’s transition to ARM thus far. These small, quiet laptops are not the small, quiet laptops of yesteryear and they are far from Chromebooks.
They may look similar on the outside but on the inside they’ve changed greatly - they have the CPU performance of high-end desktop pc’s from a few years ago. And yet people’s perception of them hasn’t changed. It is this discrepancy that creates such confused thinking.

 

[fakestrawberryflavor]

it can do way more than that. Sorry it just can.

Just because it can do it, does not mean it's what it was either designed to do, or be optimal at.

 

[NT1440]

Just because it can do it, does not mean it's what it was either designed to do, or be optimal at.

You mean I CAN’T tow the Space Shuttle every day with a Ford pickup truck? It technically was able to in that PR stunt back in the day. Makes you wonder why NASA spent millions on the shuttle crawler system.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Just because it can do it, does not mean it's what it was either designed to do, or be optimal at.

Apples says it was so.............I guess I'll take their word (and my word as a user of such a device) instead of yours.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

You mean I CAN’T tow the Space Shuttle every day with a Ford pickup truck? It technically was able to in that PR stunt back in the day. Makes you wonder why NASA spent millions on the shuttle crawler system.

Ha! The difference is the Air can do this every day. Just not as fast. But it won't hurt the system and makes it perfect for people like me who only need a power machine like 20% of the time. It can do that 20% just fine--just slower.

 

[hans1972]

Would you not expect that a new chip that can consume more power, run at higher clock rates, and presumably get hotter need improved cooling?

No, I expect the M2 MacBook Air to not make any fan noise, not get the exterior hot and to reduce the performance of the M2 SoC if it can't do that.

Sustained CPU and GPU performance is nothing I care about so reducing performance is a fantastic solution.

 

[hans1972]

What is the benefit of not having a fan ?

No fan noise at all under any circumstance.

 

[calstanford]

I was wondering how hot MBA M2 can get when using it in clamshell mode?

My current plan is to replace my Mini M1 desktop system with either MBP 14" or MBA M2 and I will use it easily for 99% of the time in clamshell mode and it only rarely leaves my desk and charger will be plugged in always. So I'm not sure how MBA M2 will last in that kind of use, because I think lid closed heat does not dissipate as efficiently and likely makes screen absorbing a lot of that and probably battery heating more too.

My use will not be very demanding, nothing like video editing or playing games. Mostly just MS Office and web browsing kind everyday tasks.

a Mac Mini or Mac Studio would do you better

 

[Scott-n-Houston]

Agreed.

In this vien, I wish the reviewers / testers would design some real-world tests for the realistic corner cases.

For example:
It's 40C in Britian and Phoenix regularly hits 100F+ in the summer. Would the MBA be able to work with 15 browser tabs, an email app, one video playing, Microsoft Office, and Slack open all at once while sitting outside in the sun with an ambient air temp of 100F?

It can easily reach 150F inside of a car on a hot summer day, and of course anything will be too hot to use there, but how quickly can it come down once removed? If we leave a MBA (closed, sleeping) in 150F ambient temperature car for 3 hours, and then quickly bring it into a 80F ambient temperature room and immediately open it and starting using it (same as above), how quickly will it cool down from 150F to an acceptable temperature?

I posted this as a joke in its own thread (hence the rubber gloves for the midnight color), but I'd be lying if I said I hadn't actually used the Yeti thing under my M1 Air while working by the pool in my back yard here in Houston.

 

[Tagbert]

A lot of people do hardcore work on MacBook Air but don’t want/require the CPU/GPU performance and weight of the 14”. My wife has hundreds of tabs open in multiple browsers, MS Office apps, and email all open on her 2013 Air, and gets a lot done. I prefer my 14” Max for my needs because I do more GPU intensive tasks and don’t move around as much.

Even with a nice OWC SSD upgrade 2 years ago, her 2013 Air is needing a replacement in the next year or so. That’s why I’m considering the M2 Air — and will still possibly buy a 512 one next year. Although I think I would also do the thermal pad mod.

If there is anything the M1 Air should have taught us; it is that you can have a lightweight fanless laptop while still having the power to meet the needs of most users.

What makes you think that the M2 MBA wouldn’t be fine with your wife’s workload? Have you looked at what they have to do in those videos to get it up to a temperature to throttle? That is not the kind of processes that most of us run on a regular basis.

 

[ufomism]

I was wondering how hot MBA M2 can get when using it in clamshell mode?

My current plan is to replace my Mini M1 desktop system with either MBP 14" or MBA M2 and I will use it easily for 99% of the time in clamshell mode and it only rarely leaves my desk and charger will be plugged in always. So I'm not sure how MBA M2 will last in that kind of use, because I think lid closed heat does not dissipate as efficiently and likely makes screen absorbing a lot of that and probably battery heating more too.

My use will not be very demanding, nothing like video editing or playing games. Mostly just MS Office and web browsing kind everyday tasks.

Keep my office at 76F (24C) and the M2A is usually somewhere between 35C and 45C in clamshell mode. I use it for youtube, web browsing, mail, excel, xcode, final cut pro, etc.

In my experience so far, the M2A rarely gets warm.

 

[Chancha]

The fact that it throttles is not a defect. The only thing lacking with the new M2 is a better price.

I am sorry but you are simply interpreting my words off from my intention. I said "inefficient" in the context of thermal dynamics, this is a neutral statement regardless if this is intended behaviour from Apple, or if it is good or bad for the consumer, or even to the point of claiming it is defective.

For example, I can also say:
"The fact that the M2 MBA entering the "throttling zone" sooner or easier than the M2 MBP 13" means the M2 MBA is less efficient than the M2 MBP."

The original topic of this post was if the thermal design of the M2 Air is "disappointing". If someone deems it less efficient relative to what Apple could have built, then calling it "inefficient", again in a relative sense is of course a sound argument. You are reading too much when seeing someone typing the word "inefficient" and thought it was an absolute and negative standard behind it. Nowhere did I claim it being a defect, though I would have liked Apple to design the passive cooling with a higher "effectiveness". In fact with the M1 Air chassis design, relative to the M1's thermal behaviour, that whole thermal package was more "efficient" than the M2 Air.

 

[LeeW]

I have spent the last two days out of interest more than anything carrying out various tests on my new M2 MBA and my Wifes M1 MBA. Compiling, Exporting and a range of other tasks. All real-world things, no benchmarks but pushing the device as much and in some cases more than most users are likely to do.

The bottom line is that the M2 does things faster than the M1 in all tests. In some cases marginally faster and in others significantly. Did I experience throttling? Yes, when compiling for a long period it was apparent, still completed faster than the M1.

If you do pointless testing that involves running benchmarks 10 times in a row intentionally cripple the device, forcing it to stay at high temperatures and throttle then yes it can return different results.

Who is the target market for these devices? Is it people that are going to run the CPU at 100% and high temps for long periods? No. In any event, is that a realistic real-world example to demonstrate the capability of the device? No. It is a fanless device, understand what that means!

All these reviews if you can call them that are for the tech geeks, they want to see devices punished and what the result is. They are not for the target user to care about as they are never going to be in that position of pushing it so hard that this will be a problem.

Mac Rumors has become so ridiculous around the panic created because of many YouTubers clambering for likes. Fortunately, the majority of purchasers don't watch these videos or are members of this forum. They will buy, find the device that is great for them and just get on with using it.

I am not defending Apple, I never do, they could and should have done better in some aspects but it is what it is.

 

[hans1972]

This seems to be a pretty popular opinion (in this thread at least). My concern is that you are basically describing a chromebook. Do you see the Air as a chromebook competitor?

The MacBook Air is quite premium at $1200 (or really $1400 with the highly recommended 512GB). Nothing in Apple’s marketing will lead users to think this machine should only be used for web browsing and word processing.

What a lot of regular people and also advanced users use a MacBook Air for, could be done on Windows, Linux, and even iPads and ChromeBooks. So yes, they are all competitors to a MacBook.

Most people don't choose a Mac because it is the only computer who can do certain tasks. They choose it because HOW it does such tasks and how it makes them FEEL using the computer. Also if people were concerned about getting the cheapest computer to perform a task, almost no one would buy Macs. In most cases, a Mac is the most expensive option you can buy.

The MacBook Air can be used for a lot of advanced tasks as long as those tasks don't require sustained CPU and/or GPU performance or you're willing to sacrifice performance.

The problem is that a lot of people, and I add YouTubers here, are looking at tasks which do require sustained performance like certain tasks in video or photo editing.

Why don't those YouTubers test the Mac with real world applications and services like Teams, Excel, SharePoint which are used by millions of Mac users in an office environment? Why don't they test the SAP client for Mac?

 

[0906742]

a Mac Mini or Mac Studio would do you better

I already have got a Mini M1 but I'm looking for a single laptop to replace both desktop and laptop (I already got rid of my MBA M1). Less maintenance and need for double apps with only one machine. Mac Studio is out of the question due to it being too loud for my taste.

 

[0906742]

Keep my office at 76F (24C) and the M2A is usually somewhere between 35C and 45C in clamshell mode. I use it for youtube, web browsing, mail, excel, xcode, final cut pro, etc.

In my experience so far, the M2A rarely gets warm.

That sound tolerable.

 

[Cirlonde]

Just to add my mostly worthless two cents... I used my new M2 MBA (8/16/512) all day yesterday, over 8 solid hours, doing my usual array of work and fun tasks. I started with 78% battery, it was down to 46% by end of day. And not once did it ever get even slightly warm to the touch. I was definitely not doing anything intense, but I had Teams, Firefox, Safari, Outlook, Apple Books, and Excel all open at the same time. Using multiple tabs, using a browser based enterprise resource planning software, SharePoint, OneDrive, streamed some video, used Spotify. The house was ~80F and I had the MBA in my lap, so not ideal air flow.

Compared to my 2015 MBA (which would get a bit toasty just watching Netflix), this is a dream.

 

[Tagbert]

If you say so, it sounds like you made the right decision. All those links I posted earlier show me other in addition to what I found which was NO to LITTLE throttling in the M1 MBA.

It really depends on the kinds of processes you are running. Lots of pro tasks do not push massive data and require the continuous intense calculations that can push the system to its thermal max. Even when that happens, it's just a question of whether the reduced throughput is acceptable or not. If this is something that you do frequently then you may need a "pro" machine. if not, then the MBA would still meet you needs.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

It really depends on the kinds of processes you are running. Lots of pro tasks do not push massive data and require the continuous intense calculations that can push the system to its thermal max. Even when that happens, it's just a question of whether the reduced throughput is acceptable or not. If this is something that you do frequently then you may need a "pro" machine. if not, then the MBA would still meet you needs.

Perfectly said.

 

[Tagbert]

What is the benefit of not having a fan ?

Quietness. I don't want to hear any fans. I understand that that limits the level of continuous performance but that is of lower value to me than the quiet.

 

[Tagbert]

in modern macs most of the time fans are not spinning at all. Only when you do something demanding the fan kicks in.

In the M2 MBA the processor is not heating up until you do something demanding (and continuous) and then throttling kicks in. The product constraints are different between a MBA and a MBP.