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M4 MacBook Pro Models Expected to Launch in Late 2024
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Mac Mini 2014 --> 2018
Mac Pro 2010 ---> 2013 --> 2019 --> 2023
iMac Pro 2017 ---> drift until dead 2021.
If look at what Apple has done. ( 'walk the walk' as opposed to talking. ) the yearly update really shouldn't be an expectation for last decade. [ Intel didn't make Apple insert all those gaps. Apple did. ]
The last several iMac 27" were mainly comatose dragging feet adopting T2 also ( iMac Pro gets T2 in 2017 and iMac doesn't until 2020). That wasn't a bleeding edge effort either.
[ The MP 2019 keep GPU fans 'happy' by dropping new GPU subset every year. Regular enough. ]
Apple's whole "no roadmap" strategy is about 'doing' rather than 'talking'. Irregular 'doing' is the major disconnect there.
There was a long pause from M1 to M1 Ultra. Then short from M1 Ultra to M2 Ultra. Lots of folks read that as 'yearly' , but that skips the first ( and what was happening with the high end system. 'About two years transition' and MP missed that. Pandemic was factor that folks wanted to latch onto the yearly thing.
The whole M1 Max doesn't have a UltraFusion connector ... oh snap it does (we photoshopped it out before) here is the Ultra. The M2 doesn't ... oh snap it does here is the Ultra 2. That too seems to have set a baseline that shouldn't expect the connector to be there all the time. The first time is an Apple 'delight and surprise' trick. The second time, who was being very surprised? It would be simpler to say it (may not be here all the time), but they were 'doing it'.
A sizable population of Mac fans still have their underwear in a twist because the iPad Pro got the M4 first. If Apple had given a roadmap of M4 in May 2024 most folks would have assumed MBA M4. It wasn't. Some iPhone folks are even more twisted on underwear as before the A-series too.
The SoCs are not completely independent of the products. And the products consist of more than just the SoC (e.g., dual layer OLED for iPad Pro.). The SoC or the product could push/pull the timeline.
Is Nvidia doing consumer? Nvidia has a relationship with Mediatek to do a Arm core + Nvidia GPU SoC. Nviida is a contributor, but it wouldn't be an Nvidia chip. It would be a SoC with Nvidia's GPU inside. Rumblings are that is for a automotive set up, but not clear yet what variation Mediatek might do for PCs.
Similarly is a Windows Nvidia chip really a 'consumer' one. If Nvidia took their Arm Neoverse ( Grace slimmed way down on core count) could be more of a desktop chip than a consumer laptop one. Likewise if take an Arm X5 and weave it with an integrated laptop iGPU there would still be a substantive amount of non Nvidia stuff there. SoCs like Mn Max and upcoming Strix Halo will be more competition for dGPU placements.
There is lots of Pref/Watt pressure in laptops to dump the dGPUs from a increasingly larger set of laptops. Switching to LPDDR for the GPUs isn't a very deep 'well' for Nvidia to draw on. I wouldn't give them an automatic 'win' here.
( their software stack is very deeply skewed toward dGPU assumptions. Somewhat the reverse of what Intel had with their push into dGPUs. Not solely a matter of throwing GPU circuits on the die. )
If you need portability you need it, if you don´t save a buck or spec up for similar spending. Not as easy to tuck away as a Mini, besidest that, I belive the Studio M1 Max (32 core GPU) was the most entising Mac option upon arrival. A lot of bang for the buck. Believe it´s still great and so is the M2 Max, but currency issues have turned the latter less attractive - not the same value proposition.
As stated by several, new versions never degrade previous hardware, and performance wise they will only suffer by software/os/media demanding more resources. It will, but we are far from there yet for any Mac Studio. Great and relevant Macs.
It will be sufficient, but rest assure, our lust for speccing up will endure. Just from a different threshold.
Yes with Mediatek. Perhaps it's just a rumor, but, at the Microsoft launch of the Qualcomm Elite laptops, it was inferred that an ARM Nvidia consumer chip perhaps also in partnership with Dell was in the works. When asked to clarify, Dell and Jensen Huang were reported to have said 'Come back next year'
We'll see.
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If desktops are shrinking that is even more reason Apple should not make iMac unilaterally declared 'King of Desktop' sales. Folks who just need a 'fast enough system' with an integrated screen are just going to buy a laptop; not an iMac. If periodically need a bigger screen just plug it into the laptop. Lots of folks think 15" is big enough. (exterely popular configuration in general PC system deployments. ). What is left is a higher density of desktops in more need of varying screen sizes; not one (or two) magical sizes that does everything.
Mini and Studio don't have to be a boon. They just have to sell more than the iMac 24". The more the desktop market shrink (or goes almost static size) , then the more it is likely going to be a 'zero sum' game. More Minis and Studios will mostly mean less iMacs.
A less kneecapped Mini should (by all indications besides the quirky sampling CIRP charts) have substantially improved. If folks wanted a decent dGPU Apple formerly herded users out of the Mini space into iMacs. That herding factor is gone.
Again shrinking desktop share ... more zero sum game in the 'left overs' means iMac probably loosing share to other increasingly better desktops that are still drawing users.
Apple primarily did the first ; not the latter. The whole 24" is larger than 21.5" is mainly for something for Apple to toss out there as an excuse as to why not. The discrete display market has not shrunk with the desktop shrinkage. There are at least an order magnitude more display docking stations via Thunderbolt/USB-C than there were in 2011. Many far more affordable than $999 also. The discrete display market probably has more completitive players now than then. 24" or 27" only isn't really the issue.
Apple will more than happily sell you a 32" 6K XDR display if you fork over the money. Apple went through a phase where they sold LG UltraFines also ( those are not primarily targeted at iMac users. )
Classic Macrumors ... claim someone side something they did not. There is zero reference to Studio Display in my post at all. I avoided saying "Mac Studio" , but I thought that was pretty clear I was talking about Macs.
I think Apple will happily take the Studio Display money if folks chose it, but I extremely doubt they are looking for some >50% attachment rate for the Mac Studio to the Studio Display.
The Studio display is just as much aimed at being a display docking station to laptops as it is a 'required' device for Mac Studios. It is missing the Ethernet jack of the Thunderbolt display docking station , but Apple 'hates' wires. ( stripped the default iMac of Ethernet to and banished it from the back of the iMac. )
The XDR isn't required to be bought with a Mac Pro either (even though introduced in tandem. )
Honestly there have been YEARs and 10's of thousands of "where is the xMac" posts here on macrumors. There is a very sizable number of folks who do not want an integrated display and not slavishly committed to buying an Apple one. The Mac Studio doesn't 'fail' if you don't buy an Apple screen.
Is Apple trying to sell the maximum number of LCD panels or are they trying to sell Mac systems? If desktops are stagnant , or worse shrinking, they would very likely want to put a higher priority on the latter .
The Mini is better than Intel era ( unless had some hard requirement for 64GB ) , if someone wants to buy more screen than Mac then they can make that trade off. If want to buy less screen costs then there are gobs of other very good alternatives that don't have an Apple label on them.
1. The $1,299 is an increase from the 'edu' , non-Retina iMac that Apple flogged along with relatively old Core i 7th gen (circa 2017 CPU) most of the way through 2021. $1099 (before edu discounts).
Apple Discontinues Intel-Based 21.5-Inch iMac
Apple has quietly discontinued the Intel-based 21.5-inch iMac, which had remained available as a low-end configuration suitable for educational...
www.macrumors.com
The "as cheap as possible" Mini option actually went down. 2018 'starts at $799' ... Nov 2020 'starts at $699'.
( the corner case exception where the transition where prices when down. M-series transition was mainly 'no change' or higher prices. Was no Intel Tax reflief that many had predicted. )
A $599 Mini and a $499 4K good mainstream monitor is $1099. Have more ports (entry iMac is gimped on USB-C ports ) and Ethernet jack and $200 more dollars in your pocket. For folks on a tight budget that will make a difference.
The iMac mythos that Apple is giving the screen for screen rings much more hallow at that point.
Also as the used Intel iMacs went on deeper sales. (Amazon was dumping that edu iMac toward the end at much lower than list price ) .
2. The max memory of an iMac shrank with the transition. ( The Mini has a Pro option the iMac doesn't, but kicked in at the M2 generation. But the trend since the transition has gotten wider. )
3. If go to Amazon or BH photo the Mini and order by highest sold the Mini models are higher than the iMac. ( may have been a bubble when the iMac fliipped to M3 after being comatose . )
Top desktops at Amazon
Amazon Best Sellers: Best Desktop Computers
Discover the best Desktop Computers in Best Sellers. Find the top 100 most popular items in Amazon Electronics Best Sellers.
www.amazon.com
Mini model (refurbed M1 ) #25. ( that isn't macs ... that is all PC desktops. )
iMac is #54 (new )
and a refurb M1 iMac not far behind.
Circa late 2021- 1H 2022 or so when Mini wasn't going stale in context of a M4 chip on the horizon. The mini was higher.
BH Photo all Mac desktops
#1 Mini. #2-10 all Mini's or Studio. iMac first appears at #11. In 11-20 four iMacs and 6 studios and Minis.
Granted going to get more business purchase weaved in there than at a place like BestBuy . But doubling the iMacs units sold ... BH isn't contributing to that at all.
The Mini comes with no keyboard. It is skewed toward folks who already have a keyboard and a monitor. So the net necessary 'buy' cost for a monitor if coming over from Windows space is perhaps a new HDMI cable or full DP to USB-C cable.
Bestbuy Mac Desktop order by Best selling
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/all-de...os/pcmcat268200050003.c?id=pcmcat268200050003
#1 .... Mini.
#2 ... iMac M3
#3 ... refurb Intel iMac ( that is under $1,000 in price )
#4 ... Mini
What????? Folks on a budget are not buying for 'sexiness'. The average price of a desktop in the Windows PC market is substantively below $1,000. The 24" high density screen is not a major player in the overall PC market. 27" 5K display had previously almost completely disappeared from the PC market the more popular , named vendors. The bulk of the displays sold there are in the $200-399 ranges.
[ Samsung's recent 5K display started out close to Studio Display but has gone done a regularly $600-700
Samsung Introduces Discounts on Monitors and TVs, Including $600 Off ViewFinity S9 5K
Samsung has a new monitor sale this week, which includes discounts on 4K and 5K Samsung monitors. The popular ViewFinity S9 5K Smart Monitor and...
www.macrumors.com
In part, because the market for non-Apple monitors is dynamic and competitive.
]
Your anecdotal versus Amazon , BestBuy , and BH who actually sell computers.
Mini's get bought by a wide variety of groups. Amazon Web Services buys Minis. Developers buy them a internal build servers. etc.
Talk show WWDC 2023 head of Marketing and hardware were on stage.
9:12 - 10:27 discussion on how MBP 13" seems but reported lots of folks coming into store wanting to buy it.
(meanwhile MBP 13" was getting tons of 'hate' in these forums at the time. )
10:52 - 11:30 The Mac Studio has been really well received
11:49 - 12:14 The Mac Mini is killing it ... it is our most versatile Mac .. you see it in a lot of places.
So the head of marketing the Mini is quite successful. What data could he be looking at. Does 'killing it' mean #1 all by itself. No. But medicore , very smallish numbers ... probably not.
The iMac not having a Mn Pro or Max model cuts down on sales of iMacs. That commentary only serves to back up what is quantitative data on retail websites.
Err not what was said. MBA is not really a best selling Apple thing. It is a best selling thing.
1:04 But first I would like to give some updates ...
2:14 The MBA is the world's best selling 13" laptop and the worlds's best selling 15" laptop.
[ The PC market has 2-3 orders of more magnitude models ... So they chop of the pie into smaller pieces. ]
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M1 Max (64 gb) is still so good there is no point to update it only for some what higher speed etc. (takes +7k..) Oled is the only reason I would be spending for because I am not a big fan of the current display offered.
"Desktop" is a category, and iMacs have always been—and continue to be—Apple's most popular desktop.
While I would guess to agree that iMac sells lower numbers today than five years ago, that doesn't mean it isn't still Apple's most popular desktop. 7% → 4% is still more popular than 1%.
To the rest—
Mac mini buyers barely exist. Put it this way, 1% of Mac sales means Apple sold around 220,000 units...worldwide. You could spend all day in a city and not walk by one person that owns a Mac mini.
I love Mac mini. I love Mac Studio. But we can't force them to be popular.
Regarding sales on MBA—
You're now misinterpreting their statement and muddying the logic of the argument.
- Tim Cook says, "MacBook Air is now the world's best selling 13" laptop." What that means is two things:
- the 13" M1 & M2 Air is the world's best selling 13" laptop model (vs Dell, Acer, etc)
- the 13" M1 & M2 Air is now overselling the 13" M2 MBP—a statement that does not also include the 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pros, nor the M1 MBP because Apple stopped selling it despite keeping the M1 Air in the lineup.
- Tim Cook then says, "and the world's best selling 15" laptop."—which is Apple's only 15" laptop. That means of all 15" laptops (vs Dell, Acer, etc) Apple is selling the most.
You have to see that. If you don't, you'll need to take a piece of paper and draw it out because it's a logic problem.
So, taking you at your word (I haven't dug into the link), it seems MacRumors should update the article. Hello-- MacRumors?
They will have to hold off for 2.5 months until M4 MacBook Pros are available in-store.
But if an M3 Air is a valid purchase—those are only 3.5 months old.
What the f.....
I bought the latest MacBook Pro 16-inch from Apple Store last than 10 months ago, and it was M2 Max. Now, in less than 6 months, there will be M4? What the f**k APPLE????? I thought Mac update cycle is 1.5 year.
I bought the latest MacBook Pro 16-inch from Apple Store last than 10 months ago, and it was M2 Max. Now, in less than 6 months, there will be M4? What the f**k APPLE????? I thought Mac update cycle is 1.5 year.
Some recent leak/rumor on this.
I don' think it was Dell in the development ... just that they would use it.
" ... They could simply mean Intel 3, because Intel doesn't specifically have a 3nm node per se. But it could also mean the Intel 3-T update which includes Foveros Direct 3D (PDF warning) stacking capabilities to bring chips or wafers from different foundries together. That would mean Nvidia could still stick with TSMC N3P for the building of its Blackwell GPU cores, and use Intel to create the ARM Cortex X5 cores and the base tile on which they all sit. ..."
https://semiwiki.com/forum/index.ph...ores-yes-an-nvidia-chip-built-by-intel.20306/
An indirect way perhaps for Intel to stick their finger into the Windows/Arm pot also. Arm does the CPU cores (Arm CSS is working with Intel as well as TSMC and Samsung) and Nvidia tacts on a iGPU die ala Intel style with Meteor Lake. Intel gets some packaging (Foveros ) and foundary business out of it. Nvidia just has to get onto the on package bus with a scaled down (and perhaps ported to N3P. there is a quick step move to N3 that Nvidia is doing next year though.) version of their Blackwell. That wouldn't max out Perf/Watt but would/could be quick without MediaTek looped in.
If Intel and Arm are spending most of the effort on the CPU cores then Nvidia doesn't have to do much there. They can try out Intel as a foundary with none of their IP being directly done by Intel. And Intel packaging isn't going to clog up TSMC packaging that Nvidia is using for other higher priority stuff.
[ could possibly be somewhat like the failed Intel GPU + AMD GPU on same package approach. That way Nvidia would get to keep their dGPU drivers in the mix. The die to die link could be PCI-e and two different kinds of Memory involved. Kind of like their Grace-Hopper for the datacenter. Pretty good chance there are some PC laptop vendors that would like to see a Arm+dGPU solution from someone. Understandably, Qualcomm doesn't have that on the 'front burner' priority. They need Windows software vendors to optimize for their own iGPU... not spend lots more money on someone else's GPU. ]
AMD supposedly has a 'skunkworks' project (SoundWave ) also which may or may not ship depending upon how it turns out. But that sounds like more echos of trying to snag some handheld gaming stuff. Similar issue here. Wouldn't be surprising to again see Arm CSS cores and AMD just trying to get their GPU weaved into the solution, but probably as a cheaper monolithic offering.
Both of which seems likely far more focused on stopping Qualcomm's incursion into the Windows space than in directly aimed at M-series and Apple products. More vying for Microsoft's attention and getting their GPUs looped into the ecosystem.
I doubt either one of those would end up a X Elite version 2 'killer' SoC. More so expanding a different part of the Windows ecosystem that Qualcomm likely will tap dance around at first. ( good chance a limited intersection with market Apple tries to cover also. ). Both AMD and Nvidia have architectural licenses, but I don't think that will be their first stabs at the issue.
LOL, Apple has never stated what the time frame is for the ASi SoC update cycle...
Agree m3 is a nice computer. But hate to put the money in something that will instantly drop in price. Of course they all drop fast, but if there are no sales in m3 with new coming out soon, that’s a hard one.
This is likely where Ross is getting his supply chain data from as he is the founder and CEO of DSCC. You can see a bump in Q3 volume for OLED panel shipments, which he is linking to the Macbook PRO. There is another much larger bump in OLED Panel shipment volume planned for Q2 next year. Apple seems to be securing the vast majority of these panels.
Maybe I'm dense, but there seems to be confusion:
- The article you're both referring to is about "OLED Tablet Panel Shipments"—no MacBook Pro or laptops mentioned—only tablets such as iPad Pro.
- Even the graphs are referring to "Quarterly OLED Tablet Panel Shipment Forecast" and "OLED Tablet Unit and Revenue Penetration"
- I can't read Ross Young's tweet—it's paywalled—but the Apple Insider article seems misinformed. Display Supply Chain Consultants seems to specialize in both mini LED displays, not just OLED (says so in the report you're both referring to).
- The MacBook Pro has mini LED displays, so that's one reason Ross Young is tweeting about the M4 MacBook Pro—he sees the orders.
- But also Ross Young will tweet about any Apple display because it gets him huge press—for example, he's tweeted about iPad minis in 2021 and MacBook Airs in 2022—both simply LCD displays.
Anyway—I'm comfident it would be a mistake for MacRumors to claim OLED is coming with M4 MacBook Pros.
M4 Air isn't expected until Spring of 2025, so that would be maybe 9.5 months from now before Apple drops the price of the M3 Air, and only by $100.
Apple's Back to School program is supposed to start this week or next, with $150 or $200 in gift cards on top of education pricing ($100 off)—which can be put into AppleCare+ since Macs have 90-days to register AppleCare+.
If you want to buy a MacBook Pro—yeah—I agree you should wait 2.5 months for the October announcement. You'll miss the gift card but I think its worth having a faster/better Mac with longer macOS support.
Edit: Back to School promo now live
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I believe so, yes. I think they will continue to increase the difference between Air, Pro, and Max and will not give the 32GB RAM option for Air this M4 cycle.
Well you can get M3 MacBook in Apple’s refurbished store and Apple’s annual back to school offers should be starting soon (within a month) and the Apple education discounts can be applied on top of some of those.