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Mac App Store to Launch As Early as December 13th?

guzhogi said:
I feel both of you have excellent points. On the one hand, the App Store will be a good place for the average computer who just wants/needs a basic word processor, accounting software, game, etc. Provides a lot of apps in one place, you don't need to give your credit card info to a bunch of different people, it'll keep your software updated, etc.

However, on the other hand, this will probably be a big success and I could see Apple saying it's so successful that it'll make the App Store the sole source of Mac apps. Notice how I say could.

Also, as chaosbunny said, there are a lot of Pro apps out there that probably won't be in the store. If the App Store is successful enough, I fear developers will start dumbing down their apps just because selling on the App Store is easier. I don't know 100% if this'll happen, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did.
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Thanks for your understanding. I also used words like "may" and "if" etc. as often as possible in my posts. I just don't have too positive feelings about the AppStore and generally take most things with a grain of salt.

After all, I believe it's good to question some things before being overly excited about something.
 
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Very nice. I'm looking forward to this, especially a new iWork. ;)
 
What was the point of even demonstrating "Lion" if this is available on other platforms. While we did notice a few features on our own, WHAT did they show us about Lion? I know it was an early "preview", but they didn't preview much of anything!
 
chaosbunny said:
Not really. I use my Mac for Adobe CS5, Final Cut, Cinema 4D, you know, high end production apps you maybe have never heard of.



Of course you may ask, and thanks for doing it in a civilized manner. :)

For one, yes I don't really believe there will be much worth for me in it. The productivity apps (except Apples own Final Cut of course, but I think one will still be able to buy it in a box) I mentioned will most certainly not appear in the AppStore, as Adobe or Maxon will not give 30% of their revenue to Apple. The people buying these things know what they want for their needs. And no regular consumer will spontaneously buy the Adobe Suite for 2000 bucks.

As for indie apps, it might be a better choice, but I don't like to fill my Mac with too much stuff I won't use anyway. I know what I need, like Cyberduck, and where to find it.

But all of this is not the reason I'm against it. The main reason is that, with Apple, you never know. If the AppStore is a huge success, which it most certainly will be, there may come the day where it will become the only real source for Mac programms, with Apple as the censor above them all. And imo this is a really bad thing, because who is Apple to know what everybody wants on ones own computer, bought with ones own money?
This completely closed platform thing works great for mobile phones, but not for much more complex computers.

Apart from that, Apple will collect the data from everyone who ones a Mac and uses the AppStore. Profiles of what people like, what they don't like, what they download and what they use for how long. There will be buyers for that, be it other corporations or the government. And the way it works with deals between big corporations and governments, you won't even know about your data being sold to the highest bidder.

So, you can call me paranoid, which many of you will, but anybody can inform himself about some really bad things going on on the internet censorship/surveillance front. So if I see something that provides infrastructure for this, and I don't really see any actual benefit for me, it's an easy choice not to use it.

While I absolutely like my Mac Pro, my MacBook Pro and Mac OS 10.6., I don't have to like every single one of Apples offerings. I don't have an iTunes account either, as I'm oldfashioned and prefer to buy CDs.
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I understand, however I think that Apple will support all the 3 platforms(Internet, Mac OS software, Mac App Store) individually. Programs such as Final Cut and Logic and many others will keep living in a separate enviroment.

I don't believe in CDs no more personally, but the internet is still too *slow* to support CD-less computers. In the other hand when there is no connectivity than the PC itself became useless, and phisical storage are still needed. CDs and DVDs still widely adopted because they are inexpensive in manufacturing, as opposed to SD cards and USB sticks.
 
Closing OSX like IOS would do too much damage, I don't think Apple will do this.. despite how much they'd like to. The time for this has long gone.

I can see the AppStore as a pseudo lockdown... MacAppStore will become the main source of Mac applications due to its success, combine that with all of Apple's unnecessary restrictions such as no competing applications, no apps that mimic existing Apps etc.

Winni said:
I agree with your assessment, and I also do not trust Apple in this regard. They're the most proprietary player in the industry, and they put much effort into keeping their Walled Garden closed. This Mac AppStore thing in Snow Leopard is a test run. If it succeeds, they eventually -will- turn Mac OS X into another closed platform -- and, of course, they will claim that it is all about the customer experience, to make things easy for them.

I never liked the "it's our way or the highway" attitude behind the iOS AppStore, and I will certainly not support them when they bring the same attitude to the Mac AppStore.

But I also don't have any illusions. The Mac AppStore will become a massive success on the Mac platform. It would never work on Windows or Linux, but the traditional Mac customers are a different crowd of people, and most of the reasons why they will heavily support Apple's next Walled Garden will defy logic and... well, reason. It will be about something closer to faith into Apple's supposedly superior designs.

The Mac AppStore won't make it easier for you to download, install and update your software. It's already as simple as it gets with drag & drop and built-in auto-updates. So all that this AppStore does is make it easier for you to spend more money on an already expensive platform. But then again, this spending-money-thing is one aspect of the Mac experience...
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Winni said:
I agree with your assessment, and I also do not trust Apple in this regard. They're the most proprietary player in the industry, and they put much effort into keeping their Walled Garden closed. This Mac AppStore thing in Snow Leopard is a test run. If it succeeds, they eventually -will- turn Mac OS X into another closed platform -- and, of course, they will claim that it is all about the customer experience, to make things easy for them.

I never liked the "it's our way or the highway" attitude behind the iOS AppStore, and I will certainly not support them when they bring the same attitude to the Mac AppStore.

But I also don't have any illusions. The Mac AppStore will become a massive success on the Mac platform. It would never work on Windows or Linux, but the traditional Mac customers are a different crowd of people, and most of the reasons why they will heavily support Apple's next Walled Garden will defy logic and... well, reason. It will be about something closer to faith into Apple's supposedly superior designs.

The Mac AppStore won't make it easier for you to download, install and update your software. It's already as simple as it gets with drag & drop and built-in auto-updates. So all that this AppStore does is make it easier for you to spend more money on an already expensive platform. But then again, this spending-money-thing is one aspect of the Mac experience...
Click to expand...

Guys... this is so "out there" with your worries. It's just an e-store and will be another option... not the only option. Do you think Apple's going to stop you from visiting other wed sites and buying Apps? They don't with Music? Sure, iTunes is your Music Manager, but not the only place you can get Music from into your library and the Apps will be no different.

Besides... Apple's strict policies on sticking to API's and other interface rules helps us. It keeps the platform more reliable and easier to understand. You do realize that Windows is such a mess because it was a free for all for so long. Sure, the Geeks love it, but for the average user who just wants to use their computer, they don't want that. They want consistency and reliability. Why do you think Apple keeps growing?

There are advantages and disadvantages to Apple's approach. But the "they are evil" undertone to the negative posts in this area amaze me. If you don't like it... don't buy it. Period.

Personally... I think the App store is great for customers and great for developers. What an amazing sales channel for developers. It will attract more developers as it will make reaching customers very easy and cost effective.
 
jb1280 said:
I don't even know why I am wasting my time on this post, but what proof do you have that the Mac App Store will lead to an inevitable shift towards locking the Mac platform down to an iOS sort of environment?

There is nothing in the recent history of the Mac platform that suggests this to be the case. I have a hard time believing that companies like Adobe or Microsoft are going to be willing to have their software on the App store, and given that in the most recent event, an Apple executive explicitly mentioned how great the new Office for Mac happens to be. If Apple was truly intent on locking down the platform, would they even acknowledge this to be the case?

What about Boot Camp? Users who want to put Windows on their Macs don't have to hack or jailbreak their Macs. Apple provides the drivers for users to accomplish this task. In 2008, Apple stated that being able to put Windows on Mac hardware was a major reason for Mac adoption. For what reason would Apple reverse this decision?

Spare us the argument that downloading a disc image or an installation package, dragging icons, inserting serial numbers, and being responsible for said disc images and serial numbers is as easy as purchasing it via the App store and being authorized to run on all of your macs in a household. One may not be extremely challenging, but one is also demonstrably more streamlined.

If anyone is trying to defy logic in arguments about the App store it is those who have a paranoid and truly ideological position on this rather than on pragmatic realities.

It is true that Apple has a certain governing philosophy about how they design hardware, software, and the intended uses of said hardware and software. At the same time, there is a pragmatic side to things. Have there been changes in App store policies over time that have benefited developers? I think there have been. Has Apple made hardware changes to assuage complaints from users? From time to time, yes.

Ultimately consumers have a choice about what platform they want to use, Steve Jobs has explicitly accepted that this is a fundamental truth about the world we live in. As long as Microsoft Office and Adobe Creative Suite are relevant to end users, and as long as end users find value in putting Windows on their Apple computers, I think we are a long way off from an era of doom and gloom and having a totally walled garden on the Mac platform.
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Well said! Couldn't of said it better.
 
iMJustAGuy said:
What was the point of even demonstrating "Lion" if this is available on other platforms. While we did notice a few features on our own, WHAT did they show us about Lion? I know it was an early "preview", but they didn't preview much of anything!
Click to expand...

The merging of OS X and iOS. Which is absolutely huge.
 
chaosbunny said:
Not really. I use my Mac for Adobe CS5, Final Cut, Cinema 4D, you know, high end production apps you maybe have never heard of.



Of course you may ask, and thanks for doing it in a civilized manner. :)

For one, yes I don't really believe there will be much worth for me in it. The productivity apps (except Apples own Final Cut of course, but I think one will still be able to buy it in a box) I mentioned will most certainly not appear in the AppStore, as Adobe or Maxon will not give 30% of their revenue to Apple. The people buying these things know what they want for their needs. And no regular consumer will spontaneously buy the Adobe Suite for 2000 bucks.

As for indie apps, it might be a better choice, but I don't like to fill my Mac with too much stuff I won't use anyway. I know what I need, like Cyberduck, and where to find it.

But all of this is not the reason I'm against it. The main reason is that, with Apple, you never know. If the AppStore is a huge success, which it most certainly will be, there may come the day where it will become the only real source for Mac programms, with Apple as the censor above them all. And imo this is a really bad thing, because who is Apple to know what everybody wants on ones own computer, bought with ones own money?
This completely closed platform thing works great for mobile phones, but not for much more complex computers.

Apart from that, Apple will collect the data from everyone who ones a Mac and uses the AppStore. Profiles of what people like, what they don't like, what they download and what they use for how long. There will be buyers for that, be it other corporations or the government. And the way it works with deals between big corporations and governments, you won't even know about your data being sold to the highest bidder.

So, you can call me paranoid, which many of you will, but anybody can inform himself about some really bad things going on on the internet censorship/surveillance front. So if I see something that provides infrastructure for this, and I don't really see any actual benefit for me, it's an easy choice not to use it.

While I absolutely like my Mac Pro, my MacBook Pro and Mac OS 10.6., I don't have to like every single one of Apples offerings. I don't have an iTunes account either, as I'm oldfashioned and prefer to buy CDs.
Click to expand...

A very well thought out answer. It is refreshing to read answers such as this one. I do disagree with some of your your points but most definitely respect you for having them.

Unfortunately I will have to call you on it. You're paranoid.
 
iMJustAGuy said:
What was the point of even demonstrating "Lion" if this is available on other platforms. While we did notice a few features on our own, WHAT did they show us about Lion? I know it was an early "preview", but they didn't preview much of anything!
Click to expand...

Well, maybe 'vi' will have Core Animation effects. :p
 
*LTD* said:
The merging of OS X and iOS. Which is absolutely huge.
Click to expand...

I wonder if this is what Apple had in mind when they released SL. It seemed at the time that SL was an under the hood update which was going to set the stage for big changes in 10.7.

I don't think Apple knew that Apps were going to be such a big hit on the iPhone or that it's OS was going to be so important. It seems to me that Apple fell into it and has reacted rather than guided us. File management in iTunes and the screen after screen of apps on a grid leave me believing the explosion of iOS and apps were an afterthought added later out of necessity rather than designed from the beginning.
 
Should be much easier and quicker to find more software especially if you dont have many or any retail stores close by that carry Mac software.
 
Did anyone else notice the ugly waste of space by the X - + buttons in the top left corner? They're oddly spaced... And not in a space saving way like iTunes' verticle stoplight arrangement.
 
Winni said:
But I also don't have any illusions. The Mac AppStore will become a massive success on the Mac platform. It would never work on Windows or Linux, but the traditional Mac customers are a different crowd of people, and most of the reasons why they will heavily support Apple's next Walled Garden will defy logic and... well, reason. It will be about something closer to faith into Apple's supposedly superior designs.
Click to expand...

Which walled garden do you subscribe to, again? Ubuntu Software Centre is very successful.... for more than a year now...

http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/features
 
Ugh. Without naming names or calling out individuals, anyone who seriously thinks that Apple will EVER restrict all application installs to only the App Store doesn't know much about computers OR business.

It will NEVER happen.
 
ArtOfWarfare said:
Did anyone else notice the ugly waste of space by the X - + buttons in the top left corner? They're oddly spaced... And not in a space saving way like iTunes' verticle stoplight arrangement.
Click to expand...

They are pretty widely spaced. May not be the final release arrangement though. And a lot of people don't like the button arrangement in iTunes. I don't mind it.
 
bpaluzzi said:
Ugh. Without naming names or calling out individuals, anyone who seriously thinks that Apple will EVER restrict all application installs to only the App Store doesn't know much about computers OR business.

It will NEVER happen.
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Sounds like famous last words :D
 
Winni said:
It would never work on Windows or Linux, but the traditional Mac customers are a different crowd of people, and most of the reasons why they will heavily support Apple's next Walled Garden will <b>defy logic and... well, reason</b>. It will be about something closer to faith into Apple's supposedly superior designs.

The Mac AppStore won't make it easier for you to download, install and update your software. It's already as simple as it gets with drag & drop and built-in auto-updates. So all that this AppStore does is make it easier for you to spend more money on an already expensive platform. But then again, this spending-money-thing is one aspect of the Mac experience...
Click to expand...

Winni... I don't know why I bother commenting on your always negative and mostly "out there" posts.

So you know, not every consumer out there in this world wants to tinker with their computer. Or download every little widget they can find to modify their system or tweak something. Most consumers just want things that work. Turn it on, do your emails, surf the web, write some reports, watch a movie, whatever it is... but they just want that experience to be consistent, reliable and clean. That is why Apple customer defy your logic and your reason.

BTW... in case you didn't notice, most software companies are in business to make software and sell it to make money. I know... how evil and it defies reason and logic. But it's called "doing business" so they can provide paychecks to employees and make a "profit". There are plenty of freebie things out there for the Mac and all platforms. There are plenty of expensive applications too. But it's a choice you have to buy or not buy. That's called free commerce.

The Apple App store will change nothing other than make it easier for software developers to reach customers and customers to find and buy software they want. In fact, I think the App store will make it so easy, that we will see price drops in some software so they can appeal to more customers since the access will be so easy. The App Store will be a huge advantage for Apple... killer for consumers, and killer for developers. Like the iPhone App store which is hugely successful and in case you have not noticed... everyone copied... the Mac App Store will be too and you'll see lots of smiling developers too.
 
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