Mac Desktop Extension Software Duet Display Rendered Inoperable in macOS 10.13.4 [Updated]

Discussion in 'Mac Blog Discussion' started by MacRumors, Mar 30, 2018.

  1. jecowa macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    #26
    I feel like Apple is purposely slowly breaking more and more apps over time to wean us off of them. Eventually, the only apps that are left will be the ones that can easily be updated to run on Apple ARM architecture of CPUs. App support has been getting a lot worse since Sierra. Everything was mostly fine in El Capitan.
     
  2. rorschach macrumors 68020

    rorschach

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    #27
    Yes it did. People have ALWAYS said this.

    I remember Snow Leopard wiping out people’s entire home folders. And 10.2.8 killing Ethernet. Etc.
     
  3. TheRealTVGuy macrumors 6502a

    TheRealTVGuy

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    #28
    I'm wondering if your frustration is with multiple bad instances, or just with the Duet issue. I would say that if having additional screen space is a "critical function" that you shouldn't be using Duet and should purchase an additional display. We use Mac exclusively for business now and I wouldn't have it another way. Granted we run the Office 365 suite, but still...

    Maybe part of my misunderstanding of people wanting to jump ship from the Mac OS is because I've never seen a version of Unix or Linux as polished as OS X, and I cut my teeth (gnashed them really) constantly trying to find drivers and solve .dll issues in Windows 98, XP, 7, and 8 as a younger man.
     
  4. Shirasaki macrumors 604

    Shirasaki

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    #29
    Well, good for me, to backup first and delay the update of new os.

    Why older stuff are generally better than new stuff these days? Are the entire industry going haywire?
     
  5. John05.636 macrumors newbie

    John05.636

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  6. zorinlynx macrumors 601

    zorinlynx

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    #31
    What bothers me is why would they make a change like this that breaks software in a point release.

    I can actually understand software breaking after a major release, like Sierra -> High Sierra. But point releases should be about bug fixes and small changes, not major API changes that can completely break software.

    With major releases, software devs have a lot more time to get their code working with the new OS during the beta period. With point releases, they have a lot less time.

    What the hell, Apple?
     
  7. justperry macrumors G3

    justperry

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Location:
    In the core of a black hole.
    #32
    Yes, those things you mentioned happened, but this is about new OS releases breaking Apps/software.
    I have been using OS X/macOS since the very first beta, if you updated your OS to the newer one almost all Apps and software kept working, except adobe obviously;) , there were plenty of bugs too but as I said most Apps still worked after OS updates.

    Bit OT, I also dislike the way macOS is updated, it used to be 1 restart only and after that restart you could use your OS instantly, unlike now, it takes 2 restarts and too much time, used to install while the OS was still running.
     
  8. KPOM macrumors G5

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    #33
    Utilities like these often rely on workarounds or non-standard APIs. I believe they install kernel extensions. Therefore, it isn’t uncommon for system updates to “break” this. I say this as someone who has used Duet Display. I like the functionality.
     
  9. autrefois macrumors 65816

    autrefois

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Location:
    Somewhere in the USA
    #34
    Apple should have a boilerplate message for when they intentionally or accidentally break compatibility with apps.

    Apple breaks the apps of other technology companies from time to time, and we generally do not discuss our purpose or plans, or give any advance warning.
     
  10. Coolestdude macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2011
    #35
    Clear the clutter use a USB-C to RS-232 Adapter like this one. Or if you do RS-232 via Rj45 like Cisco, This one.

    On topic -- Glad I read this before updating my Mac. I love using Duet on my Ipad Pro 12.9 G2 while on the Go. Sometimes in the IT world you just need 2 screens. Haven't tried doing Handoff yet.

     
  11. VictorTango777, Mar 30, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018

    VictorTango777 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2017
    #36
    Nowadays, "polish" and OS issues don't really matter. PC users only know about using the applications required by their employers. They don't care about desktop interfaces or drivers or anything else. The OS interface matters little because they spend their time running their applications full screen so they don't see a desktop. Since each application has its own unique interface anyway, the OS interface itself means nothing - they take what is handed to them. For any OS issue, they call their tech support or their friends for help. Just as Apple doesn't give a damn about hardware upgradability or serviceability and expect all repairs to be taken to an Apple store.
     
  12. PickUrPoison, Mar 30, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018

    PickUrPoison macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2017
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA
    #37
    You may prefer a fix from Apple—and I’m sure your users would too—but if you have reported the issue since the first beta, it doesn’t sound promising.

    Is this analogous to the Apple Watch battery band maker who was using the proprietary test connector in an unsupported way? In that case, Apple made changes to a later version of WatchOS that rendered the product inoperable.

    Not to be unsympathetic, but if you were using undocumented functionality in MacOS in order for your app to work, there has always been the possibility that future versions of MacOS/iOS could break your app.

    The tone of your statement suggests frustration with Apple, and that’s understandable. But is this “their issue”? Apple is usually responsive to bugs that break a developer’s product.

    Hopefully Apple is supportive of your app, and possibly the fixes you need to support it simply weren’t able to be made in time for this release. But if you were just “collateral damage” in an intentional change by Apple, they aren’t as likely to revert it, depending on the cause of the breakage.
     
  13. GoodHealthIT macrumors member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2017
    Location:
    Adelaide
    #38
    So true. Although the notes for Server 5.6 state otherwise, I found that all of the services - not just those not in use - disappeared from the Sidebar. Fortunately I tested it on a non-critical server before rolling it out into production.
     
  14. pdaholic macrumors 65816

    pdaholic

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    #39
    I just stopped updating my Mac several months ago, and I’m okay with it’s current state. I’ve been finding myself using the iPad Pro more anyway, which I will also stop updating since the last iOS release will allow me to end apple’s battery management failure.
     
  15. az431 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #40
    As several people have already pointed out, what Duet is doing is essentially a hack that is not supported by MacOS.

    Duet also had access to the beta for months so they could test and make any changes, but they instead waited until the last minute and screwed all their users.
     
  16. elbolillo macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2018
    #41
    Both my iMac (2011) and MacBook Pro (2012) are used extensively for work and I have used both for testing the High Sierra Beta and have not run into any mission critical problems that have broken "critical functions". As with most things Apple, mass hysteria and overinflated hyperbole blows up with any issue that pops up.
     
  17. saudor macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
  18. MagMan1979, Mar 30, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2018

    MagMan1979 macrumors member

    MagMan1979

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    #43
    I love how developers like these guys are so quick to jump on the “It’s Apple’s fault” bandwagon, and don’t want to take ANY responsibility of their own. Obviously this is something that changed in 10.13.4, and as other posts indicate, the developers of Duet have known about this since the first beta, but thumbed their nose at this and blamed Apple, when in fact it’s not a “bug” but an architectural change in the OS that they didn’t take into account and didn’t correct in their own code.

    Seems like they were, based on their response to this mess.

    I’m guessing you’re a developer of Duet? If you are, that’s a massively defensive posture to take. If you’ve known this is an issue since the first 10.13.4 beta, and that this change was deliberate on Apple’s part, then stop trying to pass the buck to them for this, take responsibility, and fix it yourselves! OS code, API’s and methodologies change all the time, and you can’t blame the OS maker for these changes, just yourselves for not adapting in a timely fashion and now being caught with your proverbial pants down!

    Again, stop being so defensive and taking the finger-pointing, passing-the-buck attitude on this. Other developers have tried, even the likes of behemoths like Adobe, and just emabarrased themselves afterwards.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 30, 2018 ---
    You’re speaking about Microsoft and their monster called Windows! If it wasn’t for my Mac and iPad, I’d have been caught dead in the water PLENTY of times when Winblowz let me down when I needed it most.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 30, 2018 ---
    People that take the position you’ve taken with refusing to update are INCREDIBLY foolish! You’re leaving yourself exposed to an ever growing amount of in-the-wild exploits that take advantage of issues in older OS versions, especially in this cyber climate. And please don’t tell me “I’m experienced enough to avoid sites and tasks that could compromise me”, because that is the apitome of arrogance and hubris.

    Tell me about it!!!
    --- Post Merged, Mar 30, 2018 ---
    Another developer who didn’t update their code in a manner to fall in-line with macOS API guidelines, and passing the buck to Apple...
     
  19. gilby101 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Location:
    Tasmania
    #44
    Avatron's Air Display is broken too. Avatron's email says: "This new version of macOS has made some bold changes to its WindowServer and Metal frameworks, and unfortunately has broken the Air Display Host, as well as all of our competitors. The breakage is severe; it causes an inelegant system crash when you try to connect to any unaccelerated display or USB monitor."
     
  20. JPyre macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Location:
    Pistolvania
    #45
    I agree 100% with MagMan

    We have hundreds of DisplayLink docks.
    Mirroring hasn’t worked for 10.13 ever.
    Now “cloning” is the only workaround they provide...

    DisplayLink is horrible on Windows too...
    Garbage undocumented hacks...
     
  21. Johnny Friday macrumors newbie

    Johnny Friday

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2018
    #46
    --- Post Merged, Mar 30, 2018 ---
    I am on High Sierra 10.13.3 and am still getting a yellow screen on my iPad and iPhone when using Duet. Mirror displays works perfectly, extending display is impossible. Have been in contact with CS, they say no fix in sight. The assertion that systems on 10.13.3 are working fine is blatantly false.
     
  22. zorinlynx macrumors 601

    zorinlynx

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    #47
    See what I mean? I DO blame Apple for this, because they shouldn't be making major changes to the WindowServer and Metal frameworks IN A FREAKING POINT RELEASE.

    These are the kind of changes you'd expect between 10.13.x and 10.14.x, not 10.13.3 to 10.13.4.
     
  23. sturvey macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 7, 2008
    #48
    Well, you can add ASUS USB-3 external displays to the list of thing 10.13.4 broke. The forums on ASUS are reporting it, and I live it by trying to upgrade my MacBookPro13,1 (13", 2016). LCD went absolutely haywire with flashing and switching desktops, and the external Asus MB169 Ezlink display wouldn't even work. Had to revert to 10.13.3
     
  24. PickUrPoison, Mar 30, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018

    PickUrPoison macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2017
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA
    #49
    Who knows, the changes may have been originally scheduled for 11.0 but delayed, like AirPlay 2 or messages in iCloud. But I’m not sure I agree that these kind of changes shouldn’t happen in a .x.x release.

    In any case, Apple obviously knew they were breaking Duet, Air Display, etc. but made the changes anyway. The question at this point is whether they’re willing to make the changes necessary to allow these products to work again. (“Bold changes to its WindowServer and Metal frameworks” is certainly a different take on the underlying reason for the breakage, compared to Duet’s explanation of “several critical bugs”.)

    I don’t think anyone expects Apple to stop development of WindowServer or Metal frameworks, just to keep from breaking apps that are utilizing undocumented functionality. But maybe Apple’s goals can be met while also maintaining proper functioning of these apps. Ideally these apps’ developers will be able to work together with Apple to restore the previous functionality.

    If Apple doesn’t intend to allow these types of apps to work anymore (deliberately or as fallout from modifying the previously mentioned frameworks), I think they owe the end users (and the developers, presuming they haven’t already gotten one) an explanation. I mean, the door’s been open for a long time—and Apple has profited by its 30% cut.

    The explanation may simply be that Apple can’t make the improvements they want without unavoidably breaking these apps (and they’re not willing to put in the required hooks to allow documented access). But I do think Apple should speak out on this matter. USB connected displays are also broken, and there are (tens of?) thousands of affected customers overall.

    Emails to Federighi and Cook would probably be more effective than submitting bug reports imo.
     
  25. csurfr macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2016
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    #50
    Perhaps it’s time for Duet to update their App info on the App Store to say that it’s broken in 10.13.4..as of now they’re still selling it to unsuspecting users.
     

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