Mac Mini End Of Life?

[Spievy]

Apple Consumer Towers

Performa 6400

Actually at the moment that is the only one I can think of unless the Cube could be squeezed into that category. (I mean the cube could be upgraded via cpu and graphics)

EDIT: I suppose the PowerMac 6500 could also be fit into that cat. Albeit the 6500 replaced the 6400

 

[maccompaq]

Hi there,

Thought that it was announced in 2006 that the mini would eventually disappear and not be replaced.
If you look at the current specs of the mini, macs and computers in general you'll see that there is little need of a "half baked cookie" like the mini.
There are linux boxes with similar specs for around € 100.

It is, however, time for a decent MBP upgrade!

I ran across the attached table, and am quite surprised at the high performance of the Mac Mini 1.83GHz, ranking of 985, compared to a Mobile Pentium 4 at 3.06GHz, ranking 398. Just goes to show that the GHz rating is misleading. If more people were aware of the power of the Mini, it would sell many more units. A better GPU would make it very attractive.

 

[TheSelfishGene]

The biggest impetus to updating the Mini is that Intel seems to have discontinued it's Merom line of processors, although new orders are still possible till May. Also, the Merom is not a cheap processor, because it is a very efficient mobile CPU; the 1.83ghz & 2.0ghz retail at about 250$.

It's likely Apple, if it intends to keep the Mini, will update it to the latest line of mobile CPUs.

Apple seems unlikely to improve the Mini enough to make it competitive with the iMac line of computers; Apple's marketing strategy is a ladder of increasingly expensive but vital upgrades. Spend 200$ more, and get a DVD burner, and a slightly bigger HD and slightly faster CPU. Spend 300$ more, and get a slightly faster CPU, bigger HD, and a 3d video card. Spend 300$ more again, and get a slightly faster CPU than the last, bigger HD, and a beefier video card. Ect. No where along the line does Apple allow an obviously cost-effective choice slip into the marketplace and override the marketability of their other products. Apple's sales strategy is holistic; everything being sold is relative to everything else, and takes into consideration all other current products. This is one reason Apple has to remain on the cutting edge of Processor generations, as Apple has a very tough time selling it's already overpriced hardware after a year or so of depreciation compared to Windows computers.

 

[penguy]

{snip} Apple's sales strategy is holistic; everything being sold is relative to everything else, and takes into consideration all other current products. This is one reason Apple has to remain on the cutting edge of Processor generations, as Apple has a very tough time selling it's already overpriced hardware after a year or so of depreciation compared to Windows computers.

I'm not sure I get this, but consider that Macs still yield a very good resale value, while PCs generally don't. My 3 year old Mini can still get $350-400 for a unit I paid $600 for!

 

[theophilus]

Apple's marketing strategy is a ladder of increasingly expensive but vital upgrades. Spend 200$ more, and get a DVD burner, and a slightly bigger HD and slightly faster CPU. Spend 300$ more, and get a slightly faster CPU, bigger HD, and a 3d video card. Spend 300$ more again, and get a slightly faster CPU than the last, bigger HD, and a beefier video card. Ect.

This is the point that I was trying to make earlier in the thread, but you said it much better. That's why I think we will see a new mac mini only when Apple is able to do it in a way that still offers similar differentiation between models. Will it be tomorrow? I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath.

I would like to buy a new computer by July - I'm still using the mac mini that I bought in Jan 2005. It runs fine, but I would like a speed bump, Intel processor and Leopard. However, I would really like to have something other than the 950 graphics card. I think that will probably happen by July, so I can be patient.

 

[penguy]

This is the point that I was trying to make earlier in the thread, but you said it much better. That's why I think we will see a new mac mini only when Apple is able to do it in a way that still offers similar differentiation between models. Will it be tomorrow? I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath.

I would like to buy a new computer by July - I'm still using the mac mini that I bought in Jan 2005. It runs fine, but I would like a speed bump, Intel processor and Leopard. However, I would really like to have something other than the 950 graphics card. I think that will probably happen by July, so I can be patient.

exactly where I am. Give it a dedicated card or even the 3100 and I will buy it tomorrow. If not, I may end up getting the current version while kicking myself for not enjoying it for the previous 5 months!

 

[carlgo]

I went to the local independent Apple dealer and saw a Mini on a table, running a 20" ACD along with a wireless keyboard and mouse. Really a beautiful set-up.

Got me thinking that Apple must also sell quite a few monitors, keyboards, the matching case hard drives and stuff like that, along with the Mini.

The Mini is a worthwhile product that needs someone to pay attention to it.

 

[Russet]

I went to the local independent Apple dealer and saw a Mini on a table, running a 20" ACD along with a wireless keyboard and mouse. Really a beautiful set-up.

Got me thinking that Apple must also sell quite a few monitors, keyboards, the matching case hard drives and stuff like that, along with the Mini.

The Mini is a worthwhile product that needs someone to pay attention to it.

The Mac Mini is a truly great machine. Surely the only attention it needs is to keep upgrading the innards, new chip when they are released, more RAM bigger drive, etc. The odd cosmetic makeover for the box.

 

[Evangelion]

The Mac Mini is a truly great machine. Surely the only attention it needs is to keep upgrading the innards, new chip when they are released, more RAM bigger drive, etc. The odd cosmetic makeover for the box.

Honestly, I disagree. Well, I agree that Mini is a wonderful machine, but I disagree as to what they should do with it. I think that instead of upgrading the innards, they should lower the price. The Mini will never be a powerhouse-computer, that is a fact. It will be "fast enough" for many tasks, but powerhouse it is not. With the move to Intel, the price of Mini increased. Back when I got my G4 Mac Mini, it cost $499. At that price it was a no-brainer and it was a great first step to Macs. Now it costs more and it's a lot less "obvious" of a purchase.

So, instead of increasing the specs, maybe they should focus on lowering the price?

 

[maccompaq]

you didnt read what i said.

<i>completely gone. not even a heading with no inventory underneath it.</i>

even when something isnt in available there is a header for it, with an empty box underneath it before the next type of hardware is listed. there is not even an empty header section for it anymore. The only time they take out headers (and occasionally relist them) is for discontinued hardware, like 5G ipods. Trust me, i check the refurb store almost daily, i know how it works.

There are 6 Mac Mini listings at the Apple Refurbished site today at 8:45am. They will not be there long.

 

[spatlese44]

nice bump, mini next?

MB and MBP got updated today; is the mini next? Isn't the mini basically a MB without a screen? I've been waiting a couple of months now, mostly for financial reasons (want to buy car, AppleTV, eyeTV first). Makes it a little easier to wait on a purchase when it's not the next update that's driving the decision, but then today there's this. No more 80GB HD. 2GB ram and 160GB HD for only $200 more on MB.

Those are the type of specs I get interested in. Mostly, I'm looking to use the mini as my back office computer, which is really only for web, iTunes and recording TV. Usually, incremental processor upgrades have minimal performance impact, but 2.4GHz is something and 2GB ram? Might be nice for recording, converting video. Suppose the DVD is still usefull as I'll probably want to rip existing DVD's.

 

[mjteix]

MB and MBP got updated today; is the mini next? Isn't the mini basically a MB without a screen? I've been waiting a couple of months now, mostly for financial reasons (want to buy car, AppleTV, eyeTV first). Makes it a little easier to wait on a purchase when it's not the next update that's driving the decision, but then today there's this. No more 80GB HD. 2GB ram and 160GB HD for only $200 more on MB.

Those are the type of specs I get interested in. Mostly, I'm looking to use the mini as my back office computer, which is really only for web, iTunes and recording TV. Usually, incremental processor upgrades have minimal performance impact, but 2.4GHz is something and 2GB ram? Might be nice for recording, converting video. Suppose the DVD is still usefull as I'll probably want to rip existing DVD's.

The Mini used to be a MacBook without the screen, but while the MacBook has been updated to Santa Rosa, 800 FSB and better X3100 graphics, the Mini still uses the same old motherboard (Napa, 667 FSB and GMA950 graphics). Sure the Mac mini sells less than the MacBook, so it can be updated less frequently, but I hope it will be upgraded this summer/fall with Montevina along with the other mobile/hybrid Macs. Montevina brings faster cpus, faster FSB (up to 1066), faster/better graphics (X4500) and faster and more efficent DDR3 RAM,...
It is my opinion that Apple needs sub-$1,000 Macs and since both the low-end MacBook and iMac cost more, I hope Apple keeps the Mini and keeps it updated (we could get 2.26/2.40GHz models with Montevina) for the same prices.
One way that I would not dislike would be to use the Time capsule enclosure, omit the optical drive (could use the same external Superdrive as the MB Air) and replace the 2.5" mobile HDD by a true 3.5" desktop drive. Give it 2GB of RAM and full wireless and keep the same prices.
$599 Mac mini 2.26GHz, X4500, 2GB RAM, 250GB HDD
$799 Mac mini 2.40GHz (+$50), X4500, 2GB RAM, 500GB HDD (+$150)

 

[Clive At Five]

One way that I would not dislike would be to use the Time capsule enclosure, omit the optical drive (could use the same external Superdrive as the MB Air) and replace the 2.5" mobile HDD by a true 3.5" desktop drive. Give it 2GB of RAM and full wireless and keep the same prices.

No. What? You're joking, right?

What motivation is there for the Mini to become even smaller? Is it taking up too much room on your desk or something? And what sense would it be to take out the Optical drive if you're just going to attach it again via dongle? That would take up even more desk space than just the Mini. Do not kill optical drives in desktops. It would make very little sense to make the smallest desktop computer even smaller especially when it's so feature deficient.

Someone a while back mentioned that the Mini's footprint was actually SMALLER than that of Time Cap / AirPortX & TV. Apple should grow the Mini a bit to match these foot prints, put in a 3.5" HDD as you mentioned and perhaps add a low-end dedicated graphics... Even low-end dedicated graphics are better than integrated crap-phics.

Maybe, they'd even have room for regular DIMMs. Better price and more performance than SO-DIMMs. win-win.

-Clive

 

[jeff16years]

No. What? You're joking, right?

What motivation is there for the Mini to become even smaller? Is it taking up too much room on your desk or something? And what sense would it be to take out the Optical drive if you're just going to attach it again via dongle? That would take up even more desk space than just the Mini. Do not kill optical drives in desktops. It would make very little sense to make the smallest desktop computer even smaller especially when it's so feature deficient.

Someone a while back mentioned that the Mini's footprint was actually SMALLER than that of Time Cap / AirPortX & TV. Apple should grow the Mini a bit to match these foot prints, put in a 3.5" HDD as you mentioned and perhaps add a low-end dedicated graphics... Even low-end dedicated graphics are better than integrated crap-phics.

Maybe, they'd even have room for regular DIMMs. Better price and more performance than SO-DIMMs. win-win.

-Clive

i agree.
I think it makes sense to put an external optical drive on a portable but it makes no sense for a computer designed for the desktop.

I think that you will see the MB Air come standard with the external opt drive.
thats just me...

 

[mjteix]

No. What? You're joking, right?

What motivation is there for the Mini to become even smaller?

Apple should grow the Mini a bit to match these foot prints, put in a 3.5" HDD as you mentioned and perhaps add a low-end dedicated graphics... Even low-end dedicated graphics are better than integrated crap-phics.

Maybe, they'd even have room for regular DIMMs. Better price and more performance than SO-DIMMs. win-win.

-Clive

Oh no I'm not, more Apple computers will loose the optical drive long before a Mac mini (or a MacBook) gets dedicated graphics.

Not only will low-end Macs will have integrated graphics, but if the upcoming nehalem plateform is any indication, the gpu core will be integrated to the cpu (do some research on Intel's Havendale/Auburndale).

In a household or a small office, there is no need for multiple optical drives all the time. Once Apple makes the external superdrive work on most Macs (powered usb port), there will be no need for optical drives in most Macs.

IMO, 3.5" 7200rpm hard disk drives are much more important than desktop RAM (which the Mini will never get, just like the iMac) or dedicated graphics. The current bottleneck is the storage, we are moving much more and bigger files than even 2 years ago: thousands of hiRez photos, musics, videos, HD movies...

If burning was so important, the low-end MacBook would have got a Superdrive today, not a bump in storage (as well as clock speed).

I don't care if the enclosure get a little bigger or a little smaller, the fact is the Time Capsule enclosure can contain a 3.5" HDD and a small motherboard. The current Mac mini enclosure can't.

 

[Clive At Five]

IMO, 3.5" 7200rpm hard disk drives are much more important...

We agree on this.

Also I know Apple will never do GPUs... it's just a "should."

As for oprical drives, I agree that this is where things will be heading (forget the external drive, just implement Remote Disk across the line), but it's too soon to start ditching CDs/DVDs.

Software manufacturers need to start supplying Read-Only USB Flash installers for apps > 256MB. Everything else can easily be downloaded. Once these thigs start happening, we'll see the death of the spinning shiny disks, once and for all (for storage, anyway). Believe me, no one is more excited about it than me.

-Clive

 

[MacEmu]

Hasn't the price of 2GB RAM on a Mini been reduced following todays MB and MBP announcements. 25% less here in the UK IIRC.

 

[theophilus]

If burning was so important, the low-end MacBook would have got a Superdrive today, not a bump in storage (as well as clock speed).

I disagree. I think the fact that most consumers want it is part of the reason that apple doesn't include it in the low end mini. People are willing to consider the low end mini because it doesn't cost too much more than a cheap pc box. Once they mentally accept the possibility of spending $599, they decide that they want a DVD burner, and they decide that $200 isn't that much to pay for a burner and a bigger HD. So apple gets more money. I would guess that at least a fair number of these people would not have considered a mac in the first place if the lowest price was $799.

This is why I don't expect to see a standard superdrive in the mini on its next revision. (Note the fact that the low end macbook also still has a combo drive). Having said that, I would love to be wrong.

 

[LEStudios]

I have the Intel Core Duo 2 2GHz Mac Mini. I'm happier than when I had a PC and in fact I'm not running any Microsoft programs on it at all. I don't want to. When I got the 8GB iPhone I did a restore and lost everything, the backup wasn't good at all. I got the Mac Mini and then upgraded to the 16GB iPhone. Everything was there all contacts inluding the photos well as playlists and everything else well as the wallpaper. Far as I wanted the Mac Mini to help me be reacquainted with Mac OS X. It has been 6 years since I had the 2002 iMac G4 800Mhz. This has been major leaps and bounds for me. Starting with Leopard and iLife '08 also .Mac. I've read the rumors about Mac Mini end of life. I don't see how though. I won the $750 on the Texas Lotto Pick-3 and this was the Mac I could afford. I've done well I made several tracks with Garage band, I got my webpage up with iWeb with Widgets from iTunes. I kept the photos organized in iPhoto. Apple really impressed me enough to do all this without a Microsoft program. I really think Office is overated. I used to be one of those people that have to have Word and Outlook. Actually Pages, iCal and Address Book doing a good job. I guess I really wanted to be truly progressing. If you got the chance to get the Mac Mini while its available then get it. My life been better since I had it.

 

[bigwig]

Not only will low-end Macs will have integrated graphics, but if the upcoming nehalem plateform is any indication, the gpu core will be integrated to the cpu (do some research on Intel's Havendale/Auburndale).

But does "integrated with the CPU" imply "no VRAM"? It's the lack of a dedicated lane to its own memory that bogs down integrated graphics, not its location on or off the same die as the CPU. Integrated with the CPU should improve performance since it reduces the bottleneck between CPU and GPU.

 

[PurrBall]

The mini was updated along with the iMac in August. What's the rush for an update?

 

[JG271]

The mini was updated along with the iMac in August. What's the rush for an update?

Yep, my guess is they'll update them together again, or close together, taking the mac mini up to the last generation macbook specs... or there about.

 

[Spievy]

There are 6 Mac Mini listings at the Apple Refurbished site today at 8:45am. They will not be there long.

I saw that this morning.

I just checked again (6:45et) and there is only 2 available. They sell like hot cakes (at least when they are discounted).

 

[mjteix]

But does "integrated with the CPU" imply "no VRAM"? It's the lack of a dedicated lane to its own memory that bogs down integrated graphics, not its location on or off the same die as the CPU. Integrated with the CPU should improve performance since it reduces the bottleneck between CPU and GPU.

I never said it was a bad thing. I think that X3100 is good enough for lots of things, X4500 will be even better, and Nehalem will be great (IMO).
Here's more details on that, and draw the conclusions you want:

 

[Spievy]

I never said it was a bad thing. I think that X3100 is good enough for lots of things, X4500 will be even better, and Nehalem will be great (IMO).
Here's more details on that, and draw the conclusions you want:

Good diagram... I hope the Mac Mini gets this architecture.