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Mac Mini End Of Life?
- Thread starter Dont Hurt Me
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Just spoke to Steve...
hey guys, i just spoke to steve at apple. He said that the people that posted # 2000 thru 2005 all receive one of every apple product for free!!!
hey guys, i just spoke to steve at apple. He said that the people that posted # 2000 thru 2005 all receive one of every apple product for free!!!
I have been lurking and waiting for that very same thing. I really should mention that my early 2005 G4 1.42 ppc is still running like it doesn't need a replacement... and I must sleep now or I would wait up for the 2000th post.
I've got a G4 MDD "wind tunnel" behind my TV acting as a media center. I'd love to upgrade to something quieter. It's a real suspense killer. C'mon new Mini!
This would be an awesome "One more thing..."
Granted there are a lot of muppets who say if apple would just release a machine for $799 which is exactly half a mac pro (2 HD slots, 2 PCI-e, 4 cores at the same clock, 2 GB ram etc etc), but the best part of ppl only expect the cheaper of the gfx options available for the pro as an exchange for the screen in the iMac at about $1499. Obviously not all components will be desktop class (they certainly couldn't have been in the cube), but you would expect there to be more than in the iMac. No one in their right mind would think it would LOOK anything like a conventional wintel tower/shuttle.
Ditto. Only computers I've ever owned were a Psion series 5 and an iMac G5. I became interested in Apple upon reading a glowing review of the cube when I was at school and decided to shun the wintel boxes my parents had owned.
"Excuse me, Mr Kettle? There's a telegram here from a Mr. Pot, but I'm afraid I can't read it out, because it's a little bit racist."
Apple has released great products before that met all these conditions: the Cube, the $1499 powermac. The idea that Johnathan Ive couldn't reimagine the typical desktop machine innovatively enough that they had to shelve it so that now they're only letting him work with mobile components except on the MP is just a bit ridiculous. Such a machine wouldn't support any more new hardware than the pro does (much likely less), but it would sell better than the pro by a long way, making it worth Apple's, nVidia's and ATI's while to make sure that gfx options worked on both platforms. It certainly wouldn't run just "like every other Wintel box out there, just running OS X" (aka Hackintosh) because the software updates would be supported by apple and it would "just [work]". And you can bet that it definitely wouldn't look anymore like a conventional computer than any of apple's other computers do.
I thought it would be helpful at this point to reflect upon what the 1000th post was...
Yeah, they should totally bring that back. They haven't done one in ages; not since they actually named an event "One More Thing" about 2-3 years ago. I'm always a little disappointed at the end of every keynote since they dropped this phrase. But then, I've never been a fan of John Meyer...
Yes, but the Cube turned out to be a bad design from a technical aspect, even if it was a great one from an aesthetic aspect.
And the $1499 PowerMac was still a PowerMac, just with a cheaper CPU in it. All Apple would have to do is offer a single E5405 2.0GHz Xeon CPU and that saves $600 right there - so instead of $2299 it would be $1699.
Of course, it would be a pretty poor performer for the money, likely being outclassed by the iMac.
Nostradamus predicted the Second Coming of the Mini at 1999, so we know he was wrong. Jerry Falwell says by 2009. Isaac Newton said 2060.
Yes, but the Cube turned out to be a bad design from a technical aspect, even if it was a great one from an aesthetic aspect.
And the $1499 PowerMac was still a PowerMac, just with a cheaper CPU in it. All Apple would have to do is offer a single E5405 2.0GHz Xeon CPU and that saves $600 right there - so instead of $2299 it would be $1699.
Of course, it would be a pretty poor performer for the money, likely being outclassed by the iMac.
apple can put in a 775 xeon with desktop ram and a good video card for $1200+
For the time, perhaps... but nowadays, one would hardly need anything bigger than a Cube unless they're gaga for graphics.
One could very easily use an Intel Desktop-Class processor with its MUCH lower TDP than the G4... The Cube had regular-sized DRAM, 3.5" HDD, a discrete GPU, and passive cooling of all things! I don't see any reason to abandon the Slim-Line Optical drives... no one seems to care about the performance difference between those and desktop 5.25" drives.
The only problem with a modern-day Cube concept is that graphics cards are much bigger than they used to be. This would lead to a custom-designed card you could only get from Apple and, thus, negate the point of getting an upgradeable machine for 70% of the people who wanted one in the first place.
It would still be very fast and would probably stomp the iMac in performance.
-Clive
Fully agreed.
I think the cubes factor could somehow be used for a mac mini update. Also the graphic cards would fit (i mean the low profile Radeon 34xx and nVidia GeForce cards). Yes, maybe there are not the fastest, but could be dedicated. Would not that be nice?
That's what I expect from a headless mid range Mac and if it's "not possible" to make it for Apple just update the Mini on Montevina level and I'm very happy with it.
The LGA775 3000 Series Xeons are dedicated server parts designed for single-CPU entry-level servers. The 3200 series chipset they use only supports up to 8GB of DDR2 and systemboards based on them are $300-500.
They are cheaper then the 5000 series used in the Mac Pro, but they have higher TDPs so they'd be poor choices for a small tower. Also, the cheapest models only have 4MB of L2 cache which will hurt performance. So you'd still be looking at upwards of $1000 just for the top-end 2.83GHz X3360 and a systemboard.
Assuming Apple wants to move to desktop parts (and that is a big assumption, to be honest), Apple could do a mini-tower about the size of a Shuttle Computer cube (the D10 would be an interesting idea). Of course, something like the SX48P2E is $450, and then you need to add CPU, memory, HDD, CD-ROM and video card.
So say a "Cube Deux" with a Q9450, 2x1GB of DDR3, 8800GT, 500GB HDD and a DVD-Writer would run $1499 (based on the parts price and a 30% margin).
If Apple wanted a smaller case, using mobile parts, figure $1799, though it would be a mid-range dual-core. A quad would push it closer to $1999.
"Smaller" usually comes with at a premium price. The cube form factor is a just such poor choice in terms of its price/performance ratio. A micro-ATX form factor would cost much less and has many other advantages including: standard size power supply, large enough case to allow use of larger fans (running at slower speed), room for four drives, use of larger CPU cooling devices, and in-general provides for better cooling and less noise, etc. You end up with a case about the size of the venerable G4 PowerMacs that can house a system built for a lot less money.
Regardless, I'd be surprised to see Apple expanding its line to include LGA 775 systems anytime soon.
The Mac Mini would the perfect living room media center if it weren't for the very strong Xbox 360; with that I can stream all media wirelessly.
I believe Apple need to make a fundamental change to their strategy in how fit the MM in our living rooms.
I believe Apple need to make a fundamental change to their strategy in how fit the MM in our living rooms.
I think there are so many HW options today, that almost everything is possible. To be more specific, you (or Apple) can build any level of computer, the question is only if you (or Apple) is interested to do that.
Todays HW is not as bad as 10 years ago (I mean the compatibility, not the quality) and anyway Apple would never support all HW out there, which is OK, nobody wants that from Apple. So, you (or Apple) can build a very solid computer from that HW and even notebooks HW parts are today not so expensive, as some years ago (average, not top of the line parts). But Apple was always "maestro" in building average HW in their computers
The problem with a mini-tower that has four HDD bays and two optical bays is that it immediately makes the Mac Pro irrelevant except for very specialized market niches that actually need eight cores because that would be the only difference between the two. Which means sales would drop precipitously.
As such, I cannot see Apple offering a mini-tower that has more then two internal 3.5" bays and two external 5.25" ones. You can get G3x-based microATX systemboards with one each PCI-x16/PCI-x1/PCI slots that will run the latest quad-cores. That restricts it's expandability enough to keep it from running over the Mac Pro while still allowing it to be functional for almost everyone.
As such, I cannot see Apple offering a mini-tower that has more then two internal 3.5" bays and two external 5.25" ones. You can get G3x-based microATX systemboards with one each PCI-x16/PCI-x1/PCI slots that will run the latest quad-cores. That restricts it's expandability enough to keep it from running over the Mac Pro while still allowing it to be functional for almost everyone.
go with the g43 / g45 / g41 / p45 boards or the nvidia ones. The mac pro starts at $2300 with a weak video card.
so a desktop starting at $800+ likely will have a top end quad-core or dual core with 4gb of ram and a TOP end video card or 2.
Apple needs to stop there smoke and mirrors gameing setup and come outwith a desktop. A $2300 system with FB-Dimms and weak video card will not get you in to gameing like the way you talk about games on mac at WWDC.
Put the mac pro with dual dual core or dual quad at the base price and may even put in build in hardware raid.
Of course, does Apple want to offer a gaming system in the first place?
There is no guarantee that even if Apple offered a mini-tower that used desktop components, they would will also offer an nVidia 9800GX2 or an ATI HD 4870 X2 option.
Heck, we had to wait for ATI themselves to give us a 3800-series option and nVidia hasn't deigned to offer us any of the 9-series cards.
And again, there is no way Apple will charge $800 for such a system. Their average PC margin is 30% and you can be sure retail pricing doesn't have that mark-up. And neither does a Dell or HP or Gateway machine that might have the specs you are looking at as a model for an Apple mini-tower. Not to mention Apple doesn't care what a Wintel box costs.
I'm telling you, even with desktop components, you're looking at $700 or so just for the parts for a mid-level system (2.5GHz quad-core on a P45 board with 2GB of RAM, a 500GB HDD, DVD Burner and nVidia 8800GT). You need to add 30% to that, which pushes it closer to $1000. And if you want to get really crazy, with 3GHz Quad-Core Extremes and 4GB of DDR3 and a 9-series video card, you can easily expect to pay $2000 or more because the part's cost alone will be over $1500. Heck, the CPU alone is a grand.
There is no guarantee that even if Apple offered a mini-tower that used desktop components, they would will also offer an nVidia 9800GX2 or an ATI HD 4870 X2 option.
Heck, we had to wait for ATI themselves to give us a 3800-series option and nVidia hasn't deigned to offer us any of the 9-series cards.
And again, there is no way Apple will charge $800 for such a system. Their average PC margin is 30% and you can be sure retail pricing doesn't have that mark-up. And neither does a Dell or HP or Gateway machine that might have the specs you are looking at as a model for an Apple mini-tower. Not to mention Apple doesn't care what a Wintel box costs.
I'm telling you, even with desktop components, you're looking at $700 or so just for the parts for a mid-level system (2.5GHz quad-core on a P45 board with 2GB of RAM, a 500GB HDD, DVD Burner and nVidia 8800GT). You need to add 30% to that, which pushes it closer to $1000. And if you want to get really crazy, with 3GHz Quad-Core Extremes and 4GB of DDR3 and a 9-series video card, you can easily expect to pay $2000 or more because the part's cost alone will be over $1500. Heck, the CPU alone is a grand.
I'm starting to look for a thinner mini with the same footprint. (older stack peripherals will work) Hopefully at least as spec as the then current Macbooks.
Apple has no reason to offer a reasonably priced desktop. They make a killing on their current lineup. Tell me ONE technology company that can justify selling 1 year old technology at the same price today that they charged a year ago. No one. They are not looking to enter a "cheap" market. They've done that and failed. Charging people premiums for the "cool" factor is working for them. I don't see why they should stop overcharging.
Yep and this explains why used Mac minis are overpriced on eBay, and refurbished minis at the Apple Store last just hours before they're gone. People want Macs but they're not willing or can't afford to pay more than $1000 for the so called "cool" options.
Yes you are right and it also explain why so many people think about building a Hackintosh, or they already have one, instead of waiting and waiting and waiting ...
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