Well if it is EOL'ed in October 2011 and there has been no update before then, then I would still say they were right.
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Mac Mini End Of Life?
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Well if it is EOL'ed in October 2011 and there has been no update before then, then I would still say they were right.
Well if it is EOL'ed in October 2011 and there has been no update before then, then I would still say they were right.
What are the chances that the mini will have a big enough change to become a new line? Would Apple just give the mini a small or big refresh, or could they take it in another direction?
I'm seriously starting to think the MM is dead, guys. I'm fairly confident Apple will release an eeeBox competitor if anything, though it's sheer idiocy to scrap the optical drive on a desktop. Who cares if you don't think anyone uses it? It's probably, like, $20.
Anyway. Looking at the MM, it has that antiquated feel to it so it'll get a design refresh to the sleeker-looking curves. There was no doubt in my mind that this was the eventual future of the MM, I just thought there would've been another revision or two before. However, it doesn't make sense for Apple to redesign the mo-board that they'll only use for one revision. Nevertheless, Nehalem is coming and they'll be forced to redesign it anyway...
A few things to consider anyway.
Hah, you said it! AppleInsider preaches Shaw Wu like the Bible, even though Wu is only rehashing the same reports we saw a month earlier on (none other than) AppleInsider!!! Nevermind the fact that he's wrong 85% of the time... Idiots.
-Clive
Anyway. Looking at the MM, it has that antiquated feel to it so it'll get a design refresh to the sleeker-looking curves. There was no doubt in my mind that this was the eventual future of the MM, I just thought there would've been another revision or two before. However, it doesn't make sense for Apple to redesign the mo-board that they'll only use for one revision. Nevertheless, Nehalem is coming and they'll be forced to redesign it anyway...
A few things to consider anyway.
Hah, you said it! AppleInsider preaches Shaw Wu like the Bible, even though Wu is only rehashing the same reports we saw a month earlier on (none other than) AppleInsider!!! Nevermind the fact that he's wrong 85% of the time...
Idiots.-Clive
I don't think the Mac mini is *that* antiquated. I agree it could use a design refresh, but it's already got the brushed metal sides. Just needs a new top and slightly rounded edges here and there. Oh, and some inside improvements could be nice.
Other than that, it's still pretty useful.
They could leave it as it is for me , looks sweet , maybe chuck a fresh 'lid' on it but that's not to hard and makes it look new to the masses........ it's the internals that is the issue here really ...just only if they updated to Macbook levels as they are now , that would do for me.desperation is setting in .I really need a new machine
Is the Mac Mini even relevant to Apple anymore?
Where is Apple's market? Retail. It's not hobbyists. It's not enthusiasts. It's not the Fortune 500. It's retail.
The push in PC sales in general is towards notebooks, and especially so at retail. As such, I expect Apple sold many more MacBooks then Minis even when they did have identical stats. The Mini may just not appeal to the retail market anymore (at least at a level that justifies the expense of a serious overhaul).
Where is Apple's market? Retail. It's not hobbyists. It's not enthusiasts. It's not the Fortune 500. It's retail.
The push in PC sales in general is towards notebooks, and especially so at retail. As such, I expect Apple sold many more MacBooks then Minis even when they did have identical stats. The Mini may just not appeal to the retail market anymore (at least at a level that justifies the expense of a serious overhaul).
Good point , maybe they might make a 'entry level' notebook , along with a new more reasonably priced Mini.....in order to interest switchers looking for a notebook/desktop ( just hoping here)
Yup. It sure looks like they're totally uninterested in the mini and only barely interested in the iMac and Mac Pro anymore. It will be interesting to see if the Mac Pro (w/ Nehalem) and iMac (quad core?) get significant upgrades in 2009. But the outlook for the mini must be considered dim.
So, it's probably worth them keeping it around (for emergency replacements for Mac fans and to shift old hardware for Apple), but not worth them refreshing the internals?
I hope that's not the case, but I'm starting to fear it will be. At the very least, to the point where they'll only ever refresh it half the time. (And bad luck if you need a new low-cost machine at the wrong end of the refresh cycle)
I guess time will tell, one way or the other. But as the refresh age tops 13 months, and this topic nears it's first birthday with well over two thousand posts, it seems like we may still be in for a long wait.
If you're running out of stock, you either cancel the product or get ready to sell its successor. I find it difficult to imagine Apple continues to order the manufacture of new minis of current specification. I conclude Apple's behavior makes the most sense if has a huge warehouse full of unsold Minis they're trying to get rid of.
The Mac Mini was officially designed to appeal to the Experimenters - people who wanted to try the Mac and OS X without making a huge investment. This made sense in the PowerPC days since not only did you need to buy new hardware, but you also needed to buy new software.
When Apple went Intel, an Experimenter could use any Mac model. By being able to boot Windows on it, they did not have to buy new software, but could experiment with OS X equivalents. This is who I did it. I bought a MacBook and an Al iMac and ran all my stuff in Windows via VM as I experimented with the OS X equivalents. Eventually, I moved from Office to iWorks and from Outlook to Mail/Calendar/AddressBook and IE to Safari and the Windows Adobe Suite to the OS X Adobe Suite and WS_FTP to Transmit and Gravity to Unison and so on. Now, I only boot Windows for two apps - ACDSee and Tag&Rename (an MP3 editor).
When it stopped being important for Experimenters, the Mac Mini became popular with Hobbyists because it was cheaper to buy and easier to mess around with then an iMac. But it wasn't designed for Hobbyists, so Apple didn't update it and Intel moved on and stopped creating new CPUs that would work with it. So the Hobbyists took it as far as they could and then lost interest with it.
So the key is, will Apple decide to update the Mini to appeal to Hobbyists? Or will they decide it's mission is complete and it can retire to the countryside and fade away from the product lineup?
I really hope they move it to Intel Montevina or the nVidia MCP79 because either would have real and lasting benefits to the Hobbyists. The new IGPUs have enough grunt to make HD video easier (that the current Mini can actually handle it is impressive) as well as improve gaming and other graphics-intensive performance. And the ability to plug in a whole range of Penryn CPUs should keep the Hobbyists happily occupied updating their machines as the faster CPUs become cheaper.
I would consider this an accurate analysis. Hobbyists are bored because Apple won't update the mini... but Apple won't update the mini because they are bored with hobbyists...
...and would rather sell the higher-margin iMacs.
-Clive
This post essentially combines this whole thread into this one post. You just hit the nail on the head.
IMHO This is why the Mini is going to be gone by the end of the year.
Hopefully they will make a real consumer tower.
Doubtful. Apple has finally squashed the prosumer, forcing us to assimilate or hack if we want to use OS X. Now they'll work on dumbing down the Pro-market too.
Steve's dream is for there to be one desktop computer for every man, woman, girl and boy: the iMac. Period.
-Clive
I want a new Mini as a living room media center. Does that make me a hobbyist? I think it's a fine line...
The way I see it, if I have to tweak my Mini to make it a media center, I'm a hobbyist. If I buy a pre-configured, complete media center solution from Apple, I'm just a consumer. Unfortunately, for all of us like-minded tweakers, Apple TV isn't enough.
I wonder why Apple won't consider more customizable configuration options for purchasing the Mini. They could essentially turn hobbyists into plain consumers and add to their margins. Offer a base price and upgrade options, as they do with the Mac Pro. SuperDrive or Blu-Ray Drive (with support, of course). TV Tuner or no TV Tuner. Better GMA upgrade options (again, support). Is the lack of driver support holding back upgrades? The support benefits would obviously roll over to their other systems and will eventually need to be implemented into future product upgrades.
TV Tuner implementation is the trickiest area of all these upgrade options but not because of software or hardware drivers. TV playback and recording is already possible with products from Elgato by using their USB tuners and EyeTV software. I'm not sure if Apple would rather attempt to acquire Elgato or build their own software from scratch, but either solution would be conceivable.
I believe that Mr. Jobs has said in an interview that he doesn't want to get into TV Tuners because he doesn't want to deal with the cable providers. I don't quite understand this. Does Elgato have to deal with cable providers? Their products work with or without cable. The real obstacle I see for Apple would be implementing this into their software/hardware ecosystem without potentially cannibalizing iTunes TV Show sales. This would seem to be more of a conflict with the networks, not the providers.
I see some type of DRM being a solution. It's a shame it would only be a solution from a business standpoint, and only a temporary one, at that. Pirates and freedom fighters, alike, will always be battling the Digital Rights Monster. You can bet that when they do get a good stab into the belly of the beast, the networks will rear their ugly heads at Apple and threaten their already fragile relationship. I believe this is what's holding back the TV Tuner possibility in the Mini and the Apple TV.
I disagree. His dream is for there to be one notebook computer for each person. The desktops are for businesses.
I agree. This has been the Steve Jobs vision all along, right from the start of the Mac, and he has always been loathe to provide expandability and upgradeability, because that results in messy support issues. I think the one thing that Apple has indicated that they won't do at present is provide a consumer tower. The market for the Pro is substantial enough to keep it going for now but everyone else will be forced to the iMac.
Unfortunately, Apple likely views a consumer tower as something that would appeal the most to a hobbyist...
Another thing to consider about the Mini (and the Mini Tower) is Apple's goal is to sell hardware. So they would like their customers to replace their existing machine on a roughly 24 to 36-month basis. A Mini Tower would likely impact this, since most hobbyists would push it for well beyond that. Notice how a number of forum members are still going strong with PowerMac G4s and G5s, replacing the CPU and HDD and adding RAM to keep it going. So it would impact the upgrade cycle.
Now I do understand that the above applies equally to the Mac Pro. I honestly don't think the margin on the Pro is any more then the lower-spec models (the parts it uses are quite expensive), but I do believe Apple views that machine as appealing not to Hobbyists (since even if Apple dropped it to $1999/2499 it would still be very expensive for such a role), but to Professionals - people who will use the machine to generate income. For them, time -and speed - is money.
I should've rephrased: If one were to buy a desktop, Steve would love to only give you the choice of buying an iMac. It's his "vision" in computer simplification for the masses.
-Clive
Heh. My iBook G4 is now 40 months and counting. Ironically, had they either updated or officially cancelled the Mini back in April, I'd've updated right on (their) schedule.
I admit, I'm very much off mainstream, so their plans and mine are very unlikely to intersect on either side's ideal schedule. I'm not really expecting any sort of mini announcement any time soon. I'm almost to the point where I expect it to simply stay as-is for ever, as any sort of announcement ever feels like a pipedream.
But still, replacing one's hardware sort of requires there being something to to replace it with. And for those of us whose needs are met by the concept of the Mini, but not its outdated spec, it's a bit of a no-win situation. The Mini's so far overdue an update that anyone waiting this long might as well either wait until an update, and EOL announcement, or the old kit we're running finally keeling over. As if I waited this long, gave in and bought a new one, and a replacement was announced a month later..... well, I'd be annoyed. So I'm sort of committed to waiting until something changes one way or the other.
Very true, and not just CPU/RAM and larger disk. I have used add-on cards to update my G4 tower beyond its original IO capability by adding USB 2.0, SATA, and faster video (and possibly gigabit ethernet in the future). At some point the system bus speed becomes the gating factor, but it started with OS 9 and still has acceptable performance with Leopard.
My sentiments exactly. Do I want to take that MDD out from behind my TV? Yes. Would a Mini look nicer, be easier to work with and fit on a shelf on the entertainment center? Yes. Am I going to buy an optical drive handicapped Apple TV. No. Am I going to buy a Mini before it's status changes, one way or another? Hell, no.
Mac Media Center - AppleTV doesn't cut it
Me too. In fact, my wife and I are waiting for the Mac Mini refresh to buy our first HD television. I thought Bill Gates was off-base with the 'computer as media center' thing, but he was so right.
We want a Mini in our living room hooked up to a 46 inch 1080p LCD television to take over the following functions, currently fulfilled by the G5 tower in my home office:
1) iTunes library (mostly AIFFs) playing over our stereo system, G-Force visualizer on the television.
2) Front Row for television shows and movies. Rentals from iTunes Store.
3) Internet radio streaming via Radio Tuner widget. It does Windows Media streams which we want because they sometimes sound better than their iTunes counterparts.
4) iChat (video) which is the primary way we communicate with our far-flung relatives.
5) Full iPhoto functionality.
6) Email.
7) iCal.
8) The Mac screen saver randomly choosing photos from our library and displaying them as a slideshow on the television.
9) iWeb editing, some web surfing.
10) Playing the occasional videogame.
11) Weather, Flight Tracker, Canada 411 and other widgets for general information.
We can do a few of those things in the living room now because I ran a coaxial cable to our ancient CRT television, a wire to our stereo and bought a Keyspan RF remote. AppleTV would allow us to do the same things with better video quality, but we really want to do all that stuff listed above. On a big HD television.
A new Mac Mini with bluetooth keyboard and mouse combo + RF remote would be ideal. We've been waiting almost a year for the refresh now. Sigh. Man, I hope Apple delivers something that fits the bill soon. Apple TV is not enough, an iMac isn't right either, and the G5 is overkill. There MUST be a lot of other people like us out there - I'm guessing it's a big market segment.
Me too. In fact, my wife and I are waiting for the Mac Mini refresh to buy our first HD television. I thought Bill Gates was off-base with the 'computer as media center' thing, but he was so right.
We want a Mini in our living room hooked up to a 46 inch 1080p LCD television to take over the following functions, currently fulfilled by the G5 tower in my home office:
1) iTunes library (mostly AIFFs) playing over our stereo system, G-Force visualizer on the television.
2) Front Row for television shows and movies. Rentals from iTunes Store.
3) Internet radio streaming via Radio Tuner widget. It does Windows Media streams which we want because they sometimes sound better than their iTunes counterparts.
4) iChat (video) which is the primary way we communicate with our far-flung relatives.
5) Full iPhoto functionality.
6) Email.
7) iCal.
8) The Mac screen saver randomly choosing photos from our library and displaying them as a slideshow on the television.
9) iWeb editing, some web surfing.
10) Playing the occasional videogame.
11) Weather, Flight Tracker, Canada 411 and other widgets for general information.
We can do a few of those things in the living room now because I ran a coaxial cable to our ancient CRT television, a wire to our stereo and bought a Keyspan RF remote. AppleTV would allow us to do the same things with better video quality, but we really want to do all that stuff listed above. On a big HD television.
A new Mac Mini with bluetooth keyboard and mouse combo + RF remote would be ideal. We've been waiting almost a year for the refresh now. Sigh. Man, I hope Apple delivers something that fits the bill soon. Apple TV is not enough, an iMac isn't right either, and the G5 is overkill. There MUST be a lot of other people like us out there - I'm guessing it's a big market segment.
This function, alone, could be a strong selling point for the Mini, had Apple not killed the stand-alone iSight camera. I wish Apple would embrace the Jetsons-like futurtopia where we talk to our friends or Mr. Spacely from miles away on our big screens while sitting in our living rooms.
If you can manage to scoop up an original iSight from eBay, this is possible (with the Mini.) This, and most of Bootsy's list, can't be done with Apple TV, the computer Apple wants you to have in your living room. Bootsy doesn't sound like a hobbyist to me; just a neglected consumer.
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