Mac Mini Released

[gekko513]

I am an open-minded Windows user who has never used (but is curious about) a Mac. Can someone please explain to me what the big deal is about the mini-Mac. It's being touted as a reason for Windows users to switch. But as I understand it, for $499 the MiniMac gives you:
1.25 ghz
40 gig HD
256 RAM
256 video RAM.

I just got a Dell ad in my USA Today this morning. For $399 you get:
2.8 ghz
80 gig HD
512 RAM
512 video RAM.

This is a sincere question, not a troll. What am I missing?

When you use a computer you do not just stare at those numbers, right? You use the computer to do things. Like work, entertainment, keeping contact with people, getting information, managing your digital photos, keeping record of family happenings and so on.

This is were the operating system and the software comes in. Mac OS X is considered by many to be the worlds most advanced operating system, most Mac users will claim that the OS is easier to use and gets less in their way when they try to work compared to Windows, it looks much better and so far there hasn't been any viruses threatening Mac OS X. The situation does not look like it's going to change soon.

The Mac mini also comes with some excellent software for personal photo, music and video management and creation that is much easier to use and more powerful than what you will get with that Dell computer.

The computer is also part of your home so looks and size does also matter. Many people will find the size and the design of the Mac mini to be important in their decision for which computer they chose.

Also for the numbers. If that 2.8 GHz is a Celeron processor it would be approximately as fast as a 2.2 GHz P4 and as others have said, the 1.25GHz G4 will be approximately as fast as a 1.8GHz P4 so the difference isn't as big as it seems.

Secondly, the Dell doesn't have 512MB video memory, it has 0MB video memory and the 512MB RAM is shared between OS, applications and video. The video card will be very very slow in part because it takes much longer access the shared RAM than it takes to access dedicated video RAM. The Mac mini has 32MB dedicated video RAM which isn't much, but much better than 0MB. The Mac mini does not have a fast video processor, but it is still faster than the integrated solution in that Dell.

The Dell will only be able to play very old games and the lowest end of todays games. The Mac mini will be able to play low and medium end games.

That's it, I guess. The Dell is OK for very simple use, but now you have an option for a Mac that is in the same price class and that will let you experience computing in much better way, most of us will say.

 

[bjjp2]

Does the Dell come with a CD Burner?

Dell does come with a 48x CD Burner

 

[bjjp2]

I think your specs are a little wrong. The discount Dell you speak of has a 2.4Ghz Celeron (weak), XP Home Edition (weak), 40 gig drive, 256MB RAM, A CD or DVD drive. No firewire (not even an option on their base model). No dedicated graphics processor. Once you bring it up to spec with the Mini, you end up with a $700 machine (software equivalents included). That's with XP Pro and antivirus software and you STILL don't have a dedicated graphics processor. Don't forget to upgrade to a combo drive.

Go to Dell's site. Spec it out.

On the other hand, you can add a Gig of Ram easier or more cheaply.

No. I'm looking at it right now. An insert in today's USA Today. 2.8 mhz. 80 gig drive. 512 MB RAM.

 

[bjjp2]

Would be if it was a P4, but it's only a Celeron. I've heard the G4 matches up to the Celeron at about 2:1.

It's not a Celeron. It's a Pentium 4. I'm looking at the ad.

 

[BillD222]

What???

Dell does come with a 48x CD Burner

just looked and it DOESN'T come with that, it comes with a free DVD-ROM upgrade. You have to add the combo drive for $58.Not, too much, but addd firwire, GPU, XP Pro, Office Basic, Photo/mmovie software, etc., etc. etc. you're over the mac mini.

BTW, the rest of the spec suck, too.

 

[bjjp2]

just looked and it DOESN'T come with that, it comes with a free DVD-ROM upgrade. You have to add the combo drive for $58.Not, too much, but addd firwire, GPU, XP Pro, Office Basic, Photo/mmovie software, etc., etc. etc. you're over the mac mini.

BTW, the rest of the spec suck, too.

Dude, I don't want to get into a pissing match, but the newspaper insert ad from today, which I am looking at right now with my own two eyes, says the $389 package comes with a "48x CD Burner."

 

[Kramer]

Dude, I don't want to get into a pissing match, but the newspaper insert ad from today, which I am looking at right now with my own two eyes, says the $389 package comes with a "48x CD Burner."

Here is Dell's $399.00 PC
Intel® Celeron® Processor (2.40GHz, 400 FSB)
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
256MB Shared DDR SDRAM at 333MHz (Performs at 266MHz for 400FSB systems)
40GB3 Ultra ATA/100 7200RPM Hard Drive
CRT 17 in (16.0 in v.i.s., .27dp)E773c Monitor
Single Drive: FREE UPGRADE! 16X DVD-ROM Drive
WordPerfect®, Powerful Word Processing.

No pc with a cd burner for $399.00

I think your looking at the one that is $499.00 "E-Value Code 6V588-D30PF1", it does come with a CD Burner.

 

[bjjp2]

Here is Dell's $399.00 PC
Intel® Celeron® Processor (2.40GHz, 400 FSB)
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
256MB Shared DDR SDRAM at 333MHz (Performs at 266MHz for 400FSB systems)
40GB3 Ultra ATA/100 7200RPM Hard Drive
CRT 17 in (16.0 in v.i.s., .27dp)E773c Monitor
Single Drive: FREE UPGRADE! 16X DVD-ROM Drive
WordPerfect®, Powerful Word Processing.

No pc with a cd burner for $399.00

I think your looking at the one that is $499.00 "E-Value Code 6V588-D30PF1", it does come with a CD Burner.

Jeez Guys: I'M LOOKING AT A PAPER AD FROM TODAY! I'm not making this up. It's E-Value Code 02412-S50103g. $389 with all the features I listed including burner, 2.8 mhz Pentium, 512 RAM, 80 gig HD etc.

 

[BillD222]

OK

Jeez Guys: I'M LOOKING AT A PAPER AD FROM TODAY! I'm not making this up. It's E-Value Code 02412-S50103g. $389 with all the features I listed including burner, 2.8 mhz Pentium, 512 RAM, 80 gig HD etc.

I believe you! It just isn't on their site (just an additional %10 off). Maybe the deal will start Sunday?! It is a good deal, but not for the quality per se. (I still say you need to compare it to the 4700C - at least it is somewhat small). If the dell is a better deal for you get it. I'm really not the "mini" type either (maybe a TV computer at some point), but it'll work for many. There's just no way Apple was gonna do an ultra-cheap ugly box - maybe they should, I don't know. I do know Porsche tried that with the 914. What a flop, and embarrassment to the emblem. It would be like Mercedes coming out with a neon type car tomorrow!

 

[3Memos]

There's just no way Apple was gonna do an ultra-cheap ugly box - maybe they should, I don't know. I do know Porsche tried that with the 914. What a flop, and embarrassment to the emblem. It would be like Mercedes coming out with a neon type car tomorrow!

Apple pulled a rabbit out of the hat at the $499 price point. I was so sure Apple needed to use cheap plastic and a CD tray to get to that price point. Instead, they were able to go with aluminum body and a slot load for $500. And to bundle it with OSX and iLife '05 is just gravy.

 

[devwild]

Different deals come in the papers than on the site. The fact is, these are special deals, which Apple simply doesn't have. If you average it all out the mini is still a nice value. Regardless of the dedicated video card, it's not anything glorious, The hard drive (a 4200 rpm laptop hard drive) is nothing to write home about, and if you want a gig of ram in the mini (a reasonable expectation for OSX), it becomes close to a $1000 machine.

A couple of weeks ago I specced a possible self built mini-atx linux box with a compact case on newegg (about 2.5x the size of a mini, about the same size as Dell's small cases). The case/motherboard has the same expansion as a PCI G5 (3x PCI slots, 1x AGP 8x, 2x 3.5", 1x5.25", USB, firewire, etc.). It included a Athlon 64 2800+, 1gig corsair ram, a Seagate 200GB sata drive (same series as in the G5's) for $420. I would use my spare video card and combo drive, but adding a 128mb 9200 and a combo drive would cost about $180, bringing it to $600. XP Pro would add $150, and I don't use any of the iLife products I have because I prefer more powerful tools, and I don't rate iWork as an office substitute for me because it lacks Excel, which (unfortunately) remains unmatched as a spreadsheet application.

That is my personal assesment of value comparison, most people wouldn't build their own boxes of course. I've also looked at solutions the size of the mini. Something close to the mini in size and specs would cost between $900-1000, with the prices nearing each other when you put in a gig of ram, because two SODIMMs are way cheaper than Apples one DIMM non-user-replacable part. But still the PC solution is more expensive, and doesn't include Windows.

There are faults and benefits to everything. The mini is a decent value for what it provides, and it will be great for some people, and will be useless to others. I wouldn't enjoy a stripped down machine like the mini after owning a G5, which runs some things slower than my Pentium M laptop. Other people think a G4 800mhz quicksilver box is all they'll ever need.

Regardless I think this is a step in the right direction for Apple, and I really really look forward to seeing what will happen to future models of the mini after they figure out what worked, and what didn't.

And I still hope for a mid-range headless box, but I just don't think SJ like that idea.

 

[B_Gates]

I am an open-minded Windows user who has never used (but is curious about) a Mac. Can someone please explain to me what the big deal is about the mini-Mac. It's being touted as a reason for Windows users to switch. But as I understand it, for $499 the MiniMac gives you:
1.25 ghz
40 gig HD
256 RAM
256 video RAM.

I just got a Dell ad in my USA Today this morning. For $399 you get:
2.8 ghz
80 gig HD
512 RAM
512 video RAM.

This is a sincere question, not a troll. What am I missing?

What you’re missing Apple's mindset & the Apple consumer. I make the mistake often to, the hardware in the mac mini is Apple’s entry level parts so it makes sense to Apple & Apple lovers to use these parts in a entry level pc. I don’t agree but that’s the way it is.

Apple computers run on different hardware & have different operating systems & have different software apps to use, so to make the comparison make is confusing.

Note: The fact that Apple came out with a headless entry level pc is great & long over due. They can upgrade the parts later if sales a slow

 

[amin]

I am an open-minded Windows user who has never used (but is curious about) a Mac. Can someone please explain to me what the big deal is about the mini-Mac. It's being touted as a reason for Windows users to switch. But as I understand it, for $499 the MiniMac gives you:
1.25 ghz
40 gig HD
256 RAM
256 video RAM.

I just got a Dell ad in my USA Today this morning. For $399 you get:
2.8 ghz
80 gig HD
512 RAM
512 video RAM.

This is a sincere question, not a troll. What am I missing?

You are missing experience. Unfortunately, I think most Windows users are like you, inexperienced with iLife and the Mac OS. Hopefully the iPod has made some curious enough to try. The way that iPods are more intuitive than the MP3 players they compete with is analagous to the way OS X is more intuitive than Windows. Regarding the numbers, my 867MHz 12" G4 Powerbook with 768MB RAM has never seemed slow to me, whereas my 1600 Athlon XP desktop with 1GB RAM sometimes does.

 

[3Memos]

You are missing experience. Unfortunately, I think most Windows users are like you, inexperienced with iLife and the Mac OS. Hopefully the iPod has made some curious enough to try. The way that iPods are more intuitive than the MP3 players they compete with is analagous to the way OS X is more intuitive than Windows.

Agreed. I was a long time Mac user (pro-user) and just recently discovered the delights of using iPhoto and iDVD. My sister came to me wanting some vacation photos on a DVD. I thought how time consuming it would be to do it via the regular route > photoshop > resize > dvd studio pro > author > encode > burn.

So I just gave iLife a try, and within an hour, I was able to put together a slideshow of about 500 pictures on DVD complete with motion menus. It was so easy! Then we redid the DVD in PAL so she could send them to her friends in Australia. Another 30 minutes later. Presto. There's no amount of money you can place on this level of convenience on any Dell/XP machine.

 

[fawlty]

How about connecting a really small (8"?) LCD plus an iSight to the Mac mini, and use as a desktop video-phone?

 

[3Memos]

How about connecting a really small (8"?) LCD plus an iSight to the Mac mini, and use as a desktop video-phone?

Apple should introduce a low-cost 15" LCD to go with the mini. It's odd to see such a small computer next to a bulky 19" CRT monitor. LOL.

 

[Bigheadache]

Apple should introduce a low-cost 15" LCD to go with the mini. It's odd to see such a small computer next to a bulky 19" CRT monitor. LOL.

Cheap 15 and 17 inch LCDs are a super competitive market segment. Prices are low, technology changes quickly. Apple's LCD cycle is really long (look at the macrumors buyers guide) and they are likely to get slaughtered if they tried to play in that sandpit. Better to stick to the 'premium' segment of the market.

 

[3Memos]

Cheap 15 and 17 inch LCDs are a super competitive market segment. Prices are low, technology changes quickly. Apple's LCD cycle is really long (look at the macrumors buyers guide) and they are likely to get slaughtered if they tried to play in that sandpit. Better to stick to the 'premium' segment of the market.

Yes I tend to agree with you on the fierce competitiveness of the market for low-end LCDs. A 20" Apple LCD is too large and expensive for the market for the minis. Even perhaps if Apple intro'd a 15" model, it could still carry a price that doesn't need to be ultra-competitive with the rest of the LCD market. I would gladly pay a $50-$100 premium for an Apple-designed display. I love the smallish size of the mini, and that in itself is a fashion statement for people who value small things.

 

[jameskk]

I just ordered my mini!!! with Apple 20" display.

I realize I could spend just a bit more and get the G5, but the small size of the mini sold me. Also, I don't like the white case of the new imac (aluminum lover).. anyway, does anyone know if the mini will support the weight of the 20" display sitting on top. Has anyone seen a pic of the monitor sitting on top anywhere??

 

[fuzzwud]

Just a query:

Mac mini has 2 Usb Ports
Most PC users have a Ps2 keyboard

Therefore, most Pc users will have to buy either
1. an apple kboard or
2. a non apple usb keyboard and a usb hub, as a keyboard and a mouse, both usb, would use all the ports on the mini

This seems to be quite annoying as the latter would set you back say an easy Au$100

Thoughts?

Dells come with PS/2 to USB adapter. I believe logitech or belkin makes these. The Microsoft optical mouse I bought has one of these adapters; it was free.

Also, on a side note, I think the Mac mini would be perfect as a file server for our office.

 

[3Memos]

I just ordered my mini!!! with Apple 20" display.

I realize I could spend just a bit more and get the G5, but the small size of the mini sold me. Also, I don't like the white case of the new imac (aluminum lover).. anyway, does anyone know if the mini will support the weight of the 20" display sitting on top. Has anyone seen a pic of the monitor sitting on top anywhere??

And cover up the beautiful Apple logo? Blasphemy!

 

[Bigheadache]

Yes I tend to agree with you on the fierce competitiveness of the market for low-end LCDs. A 20" Apple LCD is too large and expensive for the market for the minis. Even perhaps if Apple intro'd a 15" model, it could still carry a price that doesn't need to be ultra-competitive with the rest of the LCD market. I would gladly pay a $50-$100 premium for an Apple-designed display. I love the smallish size of the mini, and that in itself is a fashion statement for people who value small things.

Certainly not doubting you would. But the typical person only willing to shell out $499 for a computer is unlikely to want to spend $100 premium on anything. They are better off getting a cheap Benq or viewsonic or something like that.

 

[Lynxpoint]

Certainly not doubting you would. But the typical person only willing to shell out $499 for a computer is unlikely to want to spend $100 premium on anything. They are better off getting a cheap Benq or viewsonic or something like that.

I have been lurking here for a while but finally registered.
After reading much of this thread I think I am in the minority becuase I am thinking about getting a mini, but with a 23" display, BT keyboard/mouse and a couple other things bringing the total (canadian) to $4200.

I have not used a mac since the G3s and wonder if the mini is enough. I originally was looking at a 17" pb but I want a better resolution.

So is it worth it? Should I just keep waiting for the powerbooks to be upgraded? I really like the look of the mini (and would likely get a 23" display with a pb anyway so this would save a bit).

any advice?
cheers

 

[guez]

a thought...

Jeez Guys: I'M LOOKING AT A PAPER AD FROM TODAY! I'm not making this up. It's E-Value Code 02412-S50103g. $389 with all the features I listed including burner, 2.8 mhz Pentium, 512 RAM, 80 gig HD etc.

Let's come at this from a different angle. Wintel users (as your query indicates) price shop by comparing processors, hard disk sizes, and features. Since the operating system is the same, it's pretty easy to tell where the best deal is. Another way to put this is that Wintel machines are commodities, like gold or pork bellies. On this basis, Mac will usually, if not always, lose.

However, there are a lot of things we do not buy like this. Music, for example: do you buy crappy CDs, because they are only 1.99 and 70 minutes long? Or cars: Do you buy the car with lowest horsepower/cost ratio? And so on.

People buy Macs _despite_the_specs_ for a lot of reasons, including the coolness factor. But that is not the only reason. Quite simply, they find that they are more productive and less aggravated when using them, much as they find that they find that certain cars are more comfortable, easy to drive, and reliable than others, despite inferior specs. These people (the majority of car buyers, I would guess) are not fanatics or lunatics for making their decision based on such apparently subjective criteria.

So test drive a Mac. Look into their history of customer satisfaction and quality control. And then decide if you're willing to pay more.

 

[Yvan256]

You are missing experience. Unfortunately, I think most Windows users are like you, inexperienced with iLife and the Mac OS. Hopefully the iPod has made some curious enough to try. The way that iPods are more intuitive than the MP3 players they compete with is analagous to the way OS X is more intuitive than Windows. Regarding the numbers, my 867MHz 12" G4 Powerbook with 768MB RAM has never seemed slow to me, whereas my 1600 Athlon XP desktop with 1GB RAM sometimes does.

Why is everyone putting iTunes aside in all comparisons?

The comparison people should be saying is:
"If you like how iTunes works on your Windows XP box, extrapolate that kind of nice software to the whole OS, and the iLife suite."

That's the way I see it, anyway.