Mac Mini to Lose Its USB-A Ports Later This Year

[drrich2]

But that's really not how "obsolete" is used in IT. If a public API is "obsolete", it's still used. It signals that you shouldn't be using it any more.

When an update is pushed, the old version is obsolete when the vendor says it is. But what we’re apparently arguing about is what the implications are.

USB-A is declared obsolete.

Has some authoritative body, vendor, etc..., actually declared USB-A obsolete?

While USB-C connectors continue to be used in evolving technology, it's not clear how useful a distinction that is. The existence of Thunderbolt 4 ports hasn't lead people to conclude that 'plain old' non-Thunderbolt USB-C ports are obsolete, and they continue to be included in products because they are cheaper and serve fine for less demanding uses (like USB-A products do).

In popular usage, obsolete tends to refer to prior generation tech. that is substantially functionally inferior and likely won't be supported (e.g.: via software updates) going forward, and may be harder to use with newer equipment going forward. It's expected to become progressively less prevalent in common use.

USB-A ports are still very common and USB-A devices quite functional for many people. On many systems in use, there are more USB-A than C ports.

And sometimes a product line bifurcates instead of the new driving the old out of existence. SSDs are markedly superior to HDDs except in one key feature, cost, so especially for backup purposes, they endure.

USB-C made serious inroads in product lines where it offered functional advantages (e.g.: Thunderbolt 3 external SSDs). For modern computers, the expenditure involved in 1 or 2 USB-A ports ought to be trivial.

What's driving this is Apple's bizarre fixation on maximum miniaturization of what's supposedly a 'desktop' computer. With the prior Mac Mini, were there threads lamenting how awful it was the Mini had USB-A ports? Had the Mini stayed the same size with the current ports, would we over 30 pages into this thread be debating USB-A ports?

History repeats itself. Some years back, people wanted more focus on function in iMacs, but Apple appeared determined to prioritize thinness, even at the cost of sacrificing potential function. The thinnest iMac and littlest Mini brick possible.

 

[IvyKing]

Has some authoritative body, vendor, etc..., actually declared USB-A obsolete?

USB-A is at worst a legacy technology, but with numerous sources for new components and devices it is most certainly not obsolete.

I'm typing this post on an M3 MBP that replaced a 2017 MBP with 2 USB-C ports, with the HDMI port and SD card slot being a couple of reasons for going with the MBP as opposed to the MBA. I'm considering buying an M4 Mini when it comes out, but may wait for the Studio if the Studio has USB-A ports and the Mini doesn't. My M1 Mine has been working nicely over the last 3 1/2 years.

 

[iDave]

What's driving this is Apple's bizarre fixation on maximum miniaturization of what's supposedly a 'desktop' computer. With the prior Mac Mini, were there threads lamenting how awful it was the Mini had USB-A ports? Had the Mini stayed the same size with the current ports, would we over 30 pages into this thread be debating USB-A ports?

The Mac mini was introduced as a cheap headless Mac for those who didn’t want to buy a pricier all-in-one, or a laptop, and who already had a monitor. I don’t think they intended it for power users.

It has evolved. The M2 Pro Mac mini is a pretty powerful machine with six USB ports. Maybe Apple is planning to downgrade back to the basics, hoping to sell more Mac Studios? Could be the high-end Mac mini will be replaced by a lower-end entry level Mac Studio?

 

[drrich2]

Stepping back to look at the big picture, Macs and PCs both, it's interesting how the focus here is on what the port looks like more so than the function (e.g.: the data transfer speeds that technology can handle).

When we picked our kid up a Windows notebook on sale late last year (I prefer Macs, but it's a good idea for a kid to learn how to use Windows and that's what they use at school), I did some digging into the function and learned some things:

1.) The USB-C port (I think it only has one) is data-only; you can't charge it or use that for video out to drive a monitor. Why a separate proprietary charging cable for a device with USB-C?

2.) Current Windows notebooks don't necessarily have the latest HDMI version. Since notebooks are often hooked to external displays that sounds like need-to-know information, and yet HDMI version didn't seem a prominent part of ads for these things. Took some digging for me to find out what it was! Just did some digging on Mac Minis; Apple's M2 Mac Mini page doesn't volunteer the info. readily, I Googled (it's HDMI 2.0).

USB-C (and HDMI) versions in use are quite varied. Wonder which are considered obsolete?

 

[bgillander]

Is it your stance then that everything is e-waste? Its certainly true nothing lasts forever and the never-ending pursuit of innovation will lead to obsolescence for many products. How productive is it to take a sunk cost fallacy approach to this though? To me longer product cycles = less e-waste.

I think your argument for a new user adding the cheapest older accessories has some merit - that's a choice that some may make but I think many won't make that choice unless they have other older products (particularly since most "true new" would be younger generations that I think will simply go for the newer tech). Consider also the type of person that is more likely to buy the cheapest accessories on a new product is also more likely to buy the cheapest new device which will likely not have as many if any of the latest ports. That person would also be more likely to simply buy a used device or used accessories. That's a good thing for the environment for products to have extended lifecycles in the used market.

You can find contradictions in almost anything when it involves humankind - that's not the point here. It's about striking a balance of resources, environmental impact, value for money, usefulness and convenience. I still have a PC I built in 2005, still works fine, rocking the same PS/2 keyboard and mouse along some SATA2 and IDE drives. You can find purpose in anything - I'd take two USB-A instead of one USB-C on a desktop anyday, using USB-A for what its good for frees up USB-C allocation for the things that can take advantage of USB-C.

You can look at this a variety of ways, but I don't believe forcing product obsolesce is a good thing in every scenario and certainly not this scenario. It's one of thing if USB-A wasn't so widely used, it would be another thing if it didn't still have a lot of functional use - keeping USB-A isn't holding back technology, instead it allows for economical products and extends product life keeping things in use longer that would other wise end up in a landfill.

I've read consistently that USB-A lasts longer and that both the port and associated cables are more resilient in general. If you look at it with a mindset that everything is eventual e-waste, isn't it a good thing to both provide more cost effective products and minimize what truly ends up as e-waste every year?

Well, yes, all electronics are indeed eventually e-waste. As I said, I'm all for keeping the ability to use old equipment, and I have the TB3-to-TB2, TB2-to-Firewire, and Firewire-to-SCSI adapters to back up that claim. I fully agree with your comment about longer product cycles and have been very happy with the 2011 mini I have that looks a lot like the M1 version I got 10 years later.

But I've been doing this for almost 40 years, so just like old computers, I have legacy parts (computer and biological). There are some people just starting out this journey that have no need for anything but the smallest computer possible that is just a computer. Offering a smaller model for them doesn't cause more e-waste for them, it causes less. I won't begrudge them that, even though it doesn't exactly meet my needs (though it can meet my needs for almost everything, and I have other options, too).

Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate, and just thinking that Henry Ford probably had to deal with some wanting a horse included with his Model T. I don't go the the car dealership and complain that not every model meets my needs.

I guess I'm saying that perhaps the new mac mini just isn't for you, maybe it is for people that want that design. As you are arguing that all other computers have USB-A, just stick to one of those. If nobody wants a new mini without USB-A ports, Apple will quickly discover that once it puts one in the market. Maybe no one will buy one... I don't know if I will, but if I do, I won't be tossing any of my old equipment because of it.

 

[cjsuk]

They could have made Lightning free for use from other manufacturers?

Is USB-C actually proving less durable on decently priced devices and cables? Everyone I've asked seems happy with it away from cheap junk.

They could have yes but that's just not Apple is it really?

As for durability, it's crap. The biggest failure points in all our corp hardware is thermal failure (thanks Dell) and broken USB-C ports. In fact we have started getting iPhones with damaged and flakey USB-C ports now as well. Already! Lightning ones rarely failed (occasionally fluff got in them but meh).

I've personally had a broken USB-C port on a ThinkPad and the cable that came with my iPhone 15 Pro is dicky already.

 

[bgillander]

As other have commented in the thread ;

1) Keyboard
2) Mouse
3) Webcam
4) External Hard Drive

I actually do use a USB port for my keyboard and mouse, but aren’t most of them combined to use a single port? Mine are. I guess if you have a fancy gaming mouse they are separate? For a computer like the mini wouldn’t that be a fairly rare situation, though?

 

[bgillander]

They could have yes but that's just not Apple is it really?

As for durability, it's crap. The biggest failure points in all our corp hardware is thermal failure (thanks Dell) and broken USB-C ports. In fact we have started getting iPhones with damaged and flakey USB-C ports now as well. Already! Lightning ones rarely failed (occasionally fluff got in them but meh).

I've personally had a broken USB-C port on a ThinkPad and the cable that came with my iPhone 15 Pro is dicky already.

FireWire? Thunderbolt?

It seems more Apple than many other companies, really.

 

[WhisperingBobcat]

So I searched for "floppy drive mac" on Amazon and it appears that the switch to USB-C only has in fact already taken place. Almost all floppy drives now sold include both USB-A and USB-C connectivity, usually in the form of an included or attached dongle. Most have pictures of old people (my age) pulling pictures off old floppies onto their $1000 laptops. Hahaha. Maybe if Apple cared about old people as much as these floppy drive makers, they'd throw in a dongle too.

 

[iDave]

So I searched for "floppy drive mac" on Amazon and it appears that the switch to USB-C only has in fact already taken place. Almost all floppy drives now sold include both USB-A and USB-C connectivity, usually in the form of an included or attached dongle. Most have pictures of old people (my age) pulling pictures off old floppies onto their $1000 laptops. Hahaha. Maybe if Apple cared about old people as much as these floppy drive makers, they'd throw in a dongle too.

Wow, just wow, I'm amazed you can still buy a floppy diskette drive these days!

 

[WhisperingBobcat]

Wow, just wow, I'm amazed you can still buy a floppy diskette drive these days!

One has more than 11000 reviews.

 

[drrich2]

There are a lot of old devices laying around with content on them. Old video recorders (from back before the smart phones took over that function) with varied types of cassette tape or hard drive (or media card) storage, that may have some precious memory type content that doesn't get thought about for years. If you've cruised and paid for digital photo packages, you may have old CDs and USB-A drives (last I cruised it was download-based). I've got a number of old USB-A thumb drives I bought during big sales 'just in case.' Some people may have old USB-A based scanners, printers, speakers, etc...

The ports on a computer aren't just for new stuff you will buy going forward; they're to enable you to use what you already have on hand. There does come a time when we have to let go, but often that's after people rarely use the port in question. When Apple ditched optical drives, if affected some people, but I imagine many pondered when they last used the thing. Burning DVDs had gotten old. USB-A is not at that point.

Some things, like a printer or speakers, may be used many years. I picked up my Brother DCP-L2540DW all-in-one back in 2015 for roughly $100. I'm using it wirelessly now, but I've used it with USB-A before. Not what I'd buy today, but works fine for what I do with it.

 

[bgillander]

There are a lot of old devices laying around with content on them. Old video recorders (from back before the smart phones took over that function) with varied types of cassette tape or hard drive (or media card) storage, that may have some precious memory type content that doesn't get thought about for years. If you've cruised and paid for digital photo packages, you may have old CDs and USB-A drives (last I cruised it was download-based). I've got a number of old USB-A thumb drives I bought during big sales 'just in case.' Some people may have old USB-A based scanners, printers, speakers, etc...

The ports on a computer aren't just for new stuff you will buy going forward; they're to enable you to use what you already have on hand. There does come a time when we have to let go, but often that's after people rarely use the port in question. When Apple ditched optical drives, if affected some people, but I imagine many pondered when they last used the thing. Burning DVDs had gotten old. USB-A is not at that point.

Some things, like a printer or speakers, may be used many years. I picked up my Brother DCP-L2540DW all-in-one back in 2015 for roughly $100. I'm using it wirelessly now, but I've used it with USB-A before. Not what I'd buy today, but works fine for what I do with it.

Honestly, I was actually far more annoyed when they dropped DVD drives, as the external drive adds a fair bit more volume to my notebook bag than the dongles and is more awkward to use while not at a desk. Of course, I would have preferred Blu-ray movie support, but we never got that.

My neighbour is still using an old iMac with DVD as his television. My sister just bought a replacement Windows notebook a few months ago and added an external DVD drive to install her old software. My other sister misses the ability to just throw a CD into her iMac for background music.

Everyone has different needs and different expectations as to what is “obsolete”.

 

[HVDynamo]

Honestly I’d like @HVDynamo to mansplain what sort of “test cell” is the source of his ire. I’d assumed he was some sort of electrical engineer 🤦

You are correct, my degree is in electrical engineering. I work on embedded software for power generation and storage controls. I often times work with CAN interface logging and many of the controls I work with connect via RS485, sometimes multiple at a time for managing different functions independently or talking to several controls that are working together at once. Sometimes dataloggers, or even ethernet for built in high speed datalogging right from the control. Currently working on a project with a ~600V battery and 60KW inverter controller. There is not a single USB-C connector used in ANY of the test equipment. It's mostly all USB-A.

 

[bgillander]

You are correct, my degree is in electrical engineering. I work on embedded software for power generation and storage controls. I often times work with CAN interface logging and many of the controls I work with connect via RS485, sometimes multiple at a time for managing different functions independently or talking to several controls that are working together at once. Sometimes dataloggers, or even ethernet for built in high speed datalogging right from the control. Currently working on a project with a ~600V battery and 60KW inverter controller. There is not a single USB-C connector used in ANY of the test equipment. It's mostly all USB-A.

Yeah, that sounds pretty normal for manufacturing, too. I actually find it strange that you would even be thinking about dropping any new minis in an environment like that. I never wanted to drop new models into the workflow. Even when it worked perfectly, for months after it would be the first thing everyone would blame if anything anywhere didn't go perfectly, no matter how totally unrelated it was!

 

[cjsuk]

FireWire? Thunderbolt?

It seems more Apple than many other companies, really.

Both Firewire and Thunderbolt are open standards.

 

[bgillander]

Edit: Also worth noting USB-A's last ratification is USB3.2 which is fairly more capable than the average USB-C implementation out there.

Well, this edit actually raises a couple of questions for me.

Isn’t this statement a bit misleading? As far as I understand, USB3.2 specifies the signalling, which makes it applicable to both USB-A and USB-C.

Isn’t that the confusing/bad part about USB-C (and USB-A)? That those two “standards” are actually only for the connector shape/type, while the signalling and power delivery running through those connectors (very easily arguable as the far more important part) can be any one (or even multiple) other “standards”? As much as I like USB and it’s backward compatibility, that part of it feels like mixing the Autobahn with some dirt roads and licensing horse riders along with Porsche drivers. You have to look at the fine print to see what your Uber driver will be riding.

Sorry, extremely mixed metaphors seems most appropriate for that stew of standards!

 

[bgillander]

Both Firewire and Thunderbolt are open standards.

Well that is my point. Do you think Apple had nothing to do creating those open standards?

 

[altaic]

Yeah, that sounds pretty normal for manufacturing, too. I actually find it strange that you would even be thinking about dropping any new minis in an environment like that. I never wanted to drop new models into the workflow. Even when it worked perfectly, for months after it would be the first thing everyone would blame if anything anywhere didn't go perfectly, no matter how totally unrelated it was!

WTF are you talking about? Good grief. I was about to give a fellow electrical engineer unasked for advice. Please stop spewing nonsense.

Edit: nvm, muting

 

[bgillander]

WTF are you talking about? Good grief. I was about to give a fellow electrical engineer unasked for advice. Please stop spewing nonsense.

Edit: nvm, muting

Interesting. Please go on.

 

[turbineseaplane]

What's driving this is Apple's bizarre fixation on maximum miniaturization of what's supposedly a 'desktop' computer. With the prior Mac Mini, were there threads lamenting how awful it was the Mini had USB-A ports? Had the Mini stayed the same size with the current ports, would we over 30 pages into this thread be debating USB-A ports?

History repeats itself. Some years back, people wanted more focus on function in iMacs, but Apple appeared determined to prioritize thinness, even at the cost of sacrificing potential function. The thinnest iMac and littlest Mini brick possible.

Exactly right

Apple, seemingly out of ideas across all their lineups, are back to the old trick of “just make it thinner” … for no particular useful reason I can find in this specific model.

 

[ric22]

Exactly right

Apple, seemingly out of ideas across all their lineups, are back to the old trick of “just make it thinner” … for no particular useful reason I can find in this specific model.

Wait for it, someone will chirp in claiming they're saving the environment by making a couple more boxes fit in the shipping container...

(Ignoring the shipping containers full of dongles)

 

[turbineseaplane]

Wait for it, someone will chirp in claiming they're saving the environment by making couple more boxes fit in the shipping container...

(Ignoring the shopping containers full of dongles)

The new Mac mini, thinner than ever with a FineWoven case

*power cord sold separately for $69 at Apple.com

 

[ric22]

The new Mac mini, thinner than ever with a FineWoven case

*power cord sold separately for $69 at Apple.com

Haha, FineWoven should weigh less than aluminium or plastic... let's not give Apple any ideas, though.... they'd be sure to charge a premium for the upgrade!

 

[HVDynamo]

Yeah, that sounds pretty normal for manufacturing, too. I actually find it strange that you would even be thinking about dropping any new minis in an environment like that. I never wanted to drop new models into the workflow. Even when it worked perfectly, for months after it would be the first thing everyone would blame if anything anywhere didn't go perfectly, no matter how totally unrelated it was!

I wouldn’t be using any mini’s for it, it’s just the principle of the thing and windows machine makers tend to follow apple so when apple does it they won’t be far behind. We have a lot of windows laptops now that don’t have any USB-A either and it‘s such a pain in the ass, I can’t plug anything into them without an adapter. It’s just absurd to me to not include some USB-A ports on a desktop, where space isn’t the issue. Even laptops should still include at least one USB-A port unless they are an ultra portable. Fine, take them off of the macbook Air, but I’d love for it to come back on the Pro. I also have lots of USB-A stuff at home where I do use more Apple Products (and windows). I’m probably still 70/30 on USB-A/USB-C at home too.