Mac Mini to Lose Its USB-A Ports Later This Year

[ric22]

Interestingly, if you click the link, Webster's definition actually includes this:

obsolete
1 of 2
adjective
1b
: of a kind or style no longer current : OLD-FASHIONED
an obsolete technology


current
1 of 2
adjective
1a (3)
: most recent
the magazine's current issue

Currently USB-A still remains the most used connector in the world by a long shot, and is still being produced. So yeah, current.

Similarly, the day the USB consortium announce the next generation, it very obviously doesn't make USB-C 'obsolete' that same day by any stretch of the imagination.

As for the "IT is different" argument... is the M1 MacBook Air obsolete yet? It's still being sold and still supported, it's just an older iteration.

 

[bgillander]

Currently USB-A still remains the most used connector in the world by a long shot, and is still being produced. So yeah, current.

Similarly, the day the USB consortium announce the next generation, it very obviously doesn't make USB-C 'obsolete' that same day by any stretch of the imagination.

As for the "IT is different" argument... is the M1 MacBook Air obsolete yet? It's still being sold and still supported, it's just an older iteration.

I would usually agree, but it is certainly not the "most recent" which is another definition of the same "current", so, ironically, by the definition that was linked, it would indeed make USB-C obsolete.

Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate because arguing on the internet is a ridiculous waste of time if you take it seriously (or even if you don't), but that linked definition makes me believe that my original definition of obsolete was apparently too restrictive and chucker23n1 was actually technically accurate in that usage.

I do wish I could get the US pricing on an M1 Air, though. In Canada it is only about $50 less than the M2. I still like Office 97, which is 1 year newer than USB-A, so what do I know about obsolete?

Edit: In case anybody calls me on it, I guess I should say Office 97 is almost 1 year newer than USB-A, since it was actually introduced at the very end of 1996.

 

[chucker23n1]

As for the "IT is different" argument... is the M1 MacBook Air obsolete yet?

No, and that's exactly the point. USB-A is declared obsolete. The M1 Air is not.

 

[ric22]

I would usually agree, but it is certainly not the "most recent" which is another definition of the same "current", so, ironically, by the definition that was linked, it would indeed make USB-C obsolete.

Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate because arguing on the internet is a ridiculous waste of time if you take it seriously (or even if you don't), but that linked definition makes me believe that my original definition of obsolete was apparently too restrictive and chucker23n1 was actually technically accurate in that usage.

I do wish I could get the US pricing on an M1 Air, though. In Canada it is only about $50 less than the M2. I still like Office 97, which is 1 year newer than USB-A, so what do I know about obsolete?

Edit: In case anybody calls me on it, I guess I should say Office 97 is almost 1 year newer than USB-A, since it was actually introduced at the very end of 1996.

There's different ways the words can be used, and ignoring the primary definition in this instance is wrong. Categorically. It's as wrong as saying a business shirt I bought last month is obsolete because I bought a t-shirt a week later, making it both technically older and comparatively more old fashioned in appearance. 🤓

Anyway, I agree there's no point arguing about the meaning of a word on the internet, so that's the end of my contribution.

 

[bgillander]

There's different ways the words can be used, and ignoring the primary definition in this instance is wrong. Categorically. It's as wrong as saying a business shirt I bought last month is obsolete because I bought a t-shirt a week later, making it both technically older and comparatively more old fashioned in appearance. 🤓

Anyway, I agree there's no point arguing about the meaning of a word on the internet, so that's the end of my contribution.

I'm not sure I agree about comparing fashion versus a technical specification that is specifically versioned, but for some reason that comment actually made me want to check the usb.org site that I haven't been on in years.

The current site is different enough that it inspired me to look at the Wayback Machine versions to see if something was currently broken. It actually looks like they haven't even mentioned USB-A since 2018 and refer to it as "Legacy USB Connector". Maybe the search engine isn't working correctly, but if I strictly go by the way the USB-IF appears to be (not) presenting it, it actually seems more obsolete than I thought a few minutes ago.

 

[altaic]

You people really don’t need to mansplain “obsolete” to me. I’ve been in IT for plenty of time. I do not care what it means outside the trade, because we’re having an IT discussion here.

Honestly I’d like @HVDynamo to mansplain what sort of “test cell” is the source of his ire. I’d assumed he was some sort of electrical engineer 🤦

 

[cjsuk]

"The design for the USB-C connector was initially developed in 2012 by Intel, Texas Instruments and the USB Implementers Forum."

Correct. The mechanical design was completed then and prototype electrical specification was. But the specification wasn't ratified by USB-IF as 1.0 until 2014. Then ratified by the IEC as a standard in 2016 which is when it took off. Note that the main manufacturing member states in the IEC are China and South Korea. The end game was no one started building out any silicon IP until about 2016 when there was IEC ratification which is the real start of proliferation of the standard. Note that Apple implemented their first product with USB-C in 2015 before IEC ratification of the standard which was a big risk that other vendors did not take on.

Also worth noting that we didn't have half decent off the shelf USB-C charge controllers until 2018-2019 or so as well.

It takes a long time to mature standards like this and for people to make silicon to build into your products.

 

[cjsuk]

You people really don’t need to mansplain “obsolete” to me. I’ve been in IT for plenty of time. I do not care what it means outside the trade, because we’re having an IT discussion here.

USB is an electrical and mechanical specification, nothing to do with IT.

And it doesn't have a defined service lifecycle in the specification. It doesn't go obsolete. There are just later versions of it with different mechanical and electrical specifications.

People might stop using it in your limited field of vision but that doesn't mean it's obsolete.

Edit: Also worth noting USB-A's last ratification is USB3.2 which is fairly more capable than the average USB-C implementation out there.

 

[Nekronos]

As I said, I'm all for keeping old ports because I have been doing this for decades and have lots of legacy equipment. I expect you likely have a similar backstory.

The problem for you and I is that removing the A ports causes us to have to get replacement cables or dongles if we don't already have them. I see our existing accessories as already sunk costs into the e-waste future.

The problem I have with the "better for the environment" argument is mainly for the truly new users that buy their first new computer and go to add accessories. If it were me, I expect that I would probably just look at the prices and just buy USB-A parts because they are usually cheaper. Fully understandable, but that is just adding to the accumulation of legacy parts that are already starting out closer to their eventual End Of Life, and extending this grandfathering cycle ever farther.

But as you said, I'm simply playing devil's advocate, mainly because the notion of being environmentally friendly while upgrading computers strikes me as at a bare minimum quite contradictory. I use my phones and computers long past most, and usually keep them as backups even when I upgrade, but I still figure my e-waste footprint will be rather large when they eventually carry my cold corpse out.

Edit: I forgot to respond to your theory that USB-A is longer lasting. I haven't yet noticed that, having had low quality and high quality cables for each. I have used A longer though, so perhaps I will find more failures with C in the next 20 years. At least a couple of the SS10 USB-C cables I've purchased have had very high quality connectors, as they've held up well... I quite miss MagSafe on the MacBook Air M1, but at least those USB-C ports and these cables seem to be able to handle the occasional accidental pull, even at an angle. I do prefer the reversability of C, though, but I find A easier to actually push in if I actually have the initial alignment correct. I would say they both have many good qualities, and they sure beat RS-232!

Is it your stance then that everything is e-waste? Its certainly true nothing lasts forever and the never-ending pursuit of innovation will lead to obsolescence for many products. How productive is it to take a sunk cost fallacy approach to this though? To me longer product cycles = less e-waste.

I think your argument for a new user adding the cheapest older accessories has some merit - that's a choice that some may make but I think many won't make that choice unless they have other older products (particularly since most "true new" would be younger generations that I think will simply go for the newer tech). Consider also the type of person that is more likely to buy the cheapest accessories on a new product is also more likely to buy the cheapest new device which will likely not have as many if any of the latest ports. That person would also be more likely to simply buy a used device or used accessories. That's a good thing for the environment for products to have extended lifecycles in the used market.

You can find contradictions in almost anything when it involves humankind - that's not the point here. It's about striking a balance of resources, environmental impact, value for money, usefulness and convenience. I still have a PC I built in 2005, still works fine, rocking the same PS/2 keyboard and mouse along some SATA2 and IDE drives. You can find purpose in anything - I'd take two USB-A instead of one USB-C on a desktop anyday, using USB-A for what its good for frees up USB-C allocation for the things that can take advantage of USB-C.

You can look at this a variety of ways, but I don't believe forcing product obsolesce is a good thing in every scenario and certainly not this scenario. It's one of thing if USB-A wasn't so widely used, it would be another thing if it didn't still have a lot of functional use - keeping USB-A isn't holding back technology, instead it allows for economical products and extends product life keeping things in use longer that would other wise end up in a landfill.

I've read consistently that USB-A lasts longer and that both the port and associated cables are more resilient in general. If you look at it with a mindset that everything is eventual e-waste, isn't it a good thing to both provide more cost effective products and minimize what truly ends up as e-waste every year?

 

[Nekronos]

You people really don’t need to mansplain “obsolete” to me. I’ve been in IT for plenty of time. I do not care what it means outside the trade, because we’re having an IT discussion here.

Sigh, first you misuse obsolete, now you misuse mansplain, you're on a roll. How long you've been in IT is irrelevant to whether or not you understand a word's meaning.

 

[ender78]

There is not a newer, better alternative to USB-A when it comes to every peripheral, I've stated this before and I've yet to see a rebuttal.

USB-C is reversible and capable of speeds of ups to 40Gbps today. Also backward compatible. For those arguing for one USB-A port, the reality is that almost anyone that needs one port actually needs 5-10. That can be provided via a hub.

 

[ric22]

Correct. The mechanical design was completed then and prototype electrical specification was. But the specification wasn't ratified by USB-IF as 1.0 until 2014. Then ratified by the IEC as a standard in 2016 which is when it took off. Note that the main manufacturing member states in the IEC are China and South Korea. The end game was no one started building out any silicon IP until about 2016 when there was IEC ratification which is the real start of proliferation of the standard. Note that Apple implemented their first product with USB-C in 2015 before IEC ratification of the standard which was a big risk that other vendors did not take on.

Also worth noting that we didn't have half decent off the shelf USB-C charge controllers until 2018-2019 or so as well.

It takes a long time to mature standards like this and for people to make silicon to build into your products.

I don't disagree with any of that.

Apple knew it was coming, and could have planned accordingly. But like I said, we all know Apple wanted to use their proprietary connector that earnt them a **** ton of money for as long as humanly possible.

 

[Nekronos]

USB-C is reversible and capable of speeds of ups to 40Gbps today. Also backward compatible. For those arguing for one USB-A port, the reality is that almost anyone that needs one port actually needs 5-10. That can be provided via a hub.

Too bad the common implementation of USB-C today doesn't have any faster speeds than USB-A is capable of.

The task is, EVERY PERIPHERAL, good luck with that. Tell me how USB-C is better than USB-A for a keyboard or mouse? For the typical use of flash drives its debatable at best or how about all the HDDs which are largely USB-A?

 

[ric22]

the reality is that almost anyone that needs one port actually needs 5-10.

I'd like see the research that backs this up 😉

I can't see 'almost everyone' needing that many devices plugged in concurrently.

 

[ender78]

Edit: Also worth noting USB-A's last ratification is USB3.2 which is fairly more capable than the average USB-C implementation out there.

But not Apples since all ports are hopefully going to be USB4/TB4.

 

[ender78]

I'd like see the research that backs this up 😉

I can't see 'almost everyone' needing that many devices plugged in concurrently.

As other have commented in the thread ;

1) Keyboard
2) Mouse
3) Webcam
4) External Hard Drive

 

[cjsuk]

I don't disagree with any of that.

Apple knew it was coming, and could have planned accordingly. But like I said, we all know Apple wanted to use their proprietary connector that earnt them a **** ton of money for as long as humanly possible.

I could argue with the same flawed logic that USB-C exists to make money from vendors selling badly mounted ports which can be damaged easily to sell more laptops.

 

[cjsuk]

But not Apples since all ports are hopefully going to be USB4/TB4.

Good luck finding cables that work. It's hard enough trying to find a USB-C cable that'll do 5 gigabits/sec at the moment.

Also using the same flawed logic elsewhere, we could say that Apple are pushing USB4/TB4 to sell more expensive cables! 🤣

 

[ric22]

I could argue with the same flawed logic that USB-C exists to make money from vendors selling badly mounted ports which can be damaged easily to sell more laptops.

I dread to ask which bit you've mistakenly deemed flawed 🤦‍♂️

I also dislike badly mounted ports, as would any sane individual. Of course, that wouldn't prompt us to buy more from the same manufacturer. What are you on about??

 

[ric22]

Good luck finding cables that work. It's hard enough trying to find a USB-C cable that'll do 5 gigabits/sec at the moment.

Also using the same flawed logic elsewhere, we could say that Apple are pushing USB4/TB4 to sell more expensive cables! 🤣

For someone that likes writing "flawed logic" in response to everything they read, there's remarkably little sense that can be extrapolated from your recent postings here. 😅

 

[ric22]

As other have commented in the thread ;

1) Keyboard
2) Mouse
3) Webcam
4) External Hard Drive

Is 4 less than or equal to 5-10? 😉

(No need to add 2nd HDD or old flash drive to the list, I always saw your point- My point being that 99% of people don't use a wired keyboard or mouse these days, the webcam is unlikely to need to be plugged in at all times, and you can easily get replacement cables for HDDs. Most people just want to be able to connect one or two flash drives without faffing for an adapter.)

 

[cjsuk]

I dread to ask which bit you've mistakenly deemed flawed 🤦‍♂️

I also dislike badly mounted ports, as would any sane individual. Of course, that wouldn't prompt us to buy more from the same manufacturer. What are you on about??

Sorry that wasn't directed at you. I should have made a second point.

I'm just poking the conspiracy theories about Apple making money out of Lightning. Everyone seems to be unaware of how many things end up with broken ports at the more expensive end (USB-C) rather than the cable end (Lightning) now.

 

[ric22]

Sorry that wasn't directed at you. I should have made a second point.

I'm just poking the conspiracy theories about Apple making money out of Lightning. Everyone seems to be unaware of how many things end up with broken ports at the more expensive end (USB-C) rather than the cable end (Lightning) now.

They could have made Lightning free for use from other manufacturers?

Is USB-C actually proving less durable on decently priced devices and cables? Everyone I've asked seems happy with it away from cheap junk.

 

[chucker23n1]

Sigh, first you misuse obsolete, now you misuse mansplain, you're on a roll.

I'll grant you that my use of "mansplain" was a stretch. But everyone understood what I meant. Whereas, with obsolete, everyone is pretending not to understand what it means.

 

[iDave]

Is USB-C actually proving less durable on decently priced devices and cables? Everyone I've asked seems happy with it away from cheap junk.

I’ve been using it since my first 12 inch MacBook in 2015, and I haven’t had any problems...for what that’s worth.