Mac OS X 10.5 Details?

[mugwump]

yeah

Even though I've experienced quite a few of the Tiger bugs, I'm glad they released it when they did. Going back to Panther was dog slow and is somewhat useless without spotlight.

Regarding the "uninstall" option -- it should be simple for Apple to provide a "Do You Want To Trash All Related Data?" question whenever you trash an application. That way, uninstallation is as easy as dragging an app to the trash.

Though I must say, unlike the Windows world, most people simply leave everything on there. It's not a widespread issue for most applications and users.

 

[iMeowbot]

I removed iWork when I purchased my Mac cuz I didn't need it - now I want it, but it won't let me load it because it says that one or more 'files associated with iWork' remain on my computer....

If you remove the iWork, Pages, Keynote stuff from /Library/Receipts it will let you reinstall. This one has got quite a few people who tried to remove preloaded demos and then decided to buy later.

 

[mad jew]

You're missing the point. This is to do with "packages"...

I understood you the first time.

What I don't get is that when I wanted to get rid of iDVD on my iBook, I dragged it to the trash, fully aware that this probably wouldn't work very well. To my surprise, it did. I then wanted to reinstall it, so, without deleting packages (or even preferences for that matter), I installed it. I didn't hit any problems though. That's why I asked how you uninstall your apps because I haven't hit any snags like this before. Admittedly, I usually leave apps where they are most of the time though.

 

[Applespider]

It'd be nice if there was a more powerful way to batch edit metadata for documents.

You could create a Finder plug-in to add Spotlight comments to batches of documents at a time which would then be picked up in a smart folder.
So long as you set the 'comments' to 'show as run' under the option, you'll be able to type in any text you like and, I think, choose whether to append or replace the existing text, each time you run the action on a batch of folders.

 

[JFreak]

what i have found is that most problems are related to not ever repairing permissions. osx runs some scheduled maintenance jobs in the background, but it requires that the system is left powered on at all times. when people shut off their computers, the maintenance is never done properly. updating osx version does some of it, so it's not disastrous, but i think apple should have addressed this issue long time ago -- just tweak the system in a way that if the system was off when some maintenance job should start, then force the jobs to start next time the system is on.

 

[tombeck]

Package Management systems have been around in unix systems for years and years. Apple decided it was too hard to make a good one, so they ignored it all together.

Interestingly, NextStep had a package uninstaller. For some reason, Apple took it out of the OS.

 

[BWhaler]

I think "train wreck" and "poorly designed" is a little over the top. Yes, it does have bugs, but, they are mostly small and annoying for most people. Poorly designed? I don't think so, bugs or not, it's one of the best-designed OSes out there.

You may eat your words about Longhorn/Vista once it's finally released. Have you ever used a 1.0 version of Microsoft software? That's where "train wreck" would apply.

1. 10.4.3 is the largest bug patch in Apple's history. As an enterprise customer, I have spoken with my rep about it, and he acknowledged that Apple was aware of the "massive quality issues"--his words--with Tiger.

2. Longhorn is not a 1.0 release--that's a foolish comment--and Apple folks need to get their heads out of the sand for how good Longhorn is going to be.

I'm an Apple guy through and through, and wouldn't buy a dell with longhorn unless Apple fell off the face of the earth.

But I am objective enough to try the latest beta of Longhorn and see that it is shaping up to be a very, very good OS. And MS has more up their sleeves.

Do I think Leopard will be better? Yes, I am hopeful. But don't kid yourself about Longhorn. It's solid.

 

[TBi]

Just delete the application icon (which is a folder containing everything) and delete the related directories in "~/Library/Application Support/".

There is only a small number of apps that leave files in different places. eg: Nortons

I just wouldn't worry too much about it.

I like how easy it is to install programs on the MAC. However for the casual user there should be a "Remove Program" dialog. Maybe if you delete an app it should ask you if you'd like to delete the extra files. I don't want to ever have to go to the "~/Library/Application Support/" folder, no matter how easy it is.

The problem is worse for windows users who are thought that they should not just delete a program, but instead add/remove it. Apple wants all these windows users who are afraid of their lives that if they delete a program they will break the computer.

Also what is so bad about having a unified program removal tool. It shouldn't really be that hard for apple, all it has to do in the back ground is delete the executable file and it's related files from "~/Library/Application Support/". At worst it will be a tiny little program that advanced users will never use, at best it will make life a lot easier for new users and non-power users.

 

[Voidness]

And Longhorn, as much as I hate to say it, is shaping up to be a solid OS.

That's not right. Have you read the review of the latest Vista build by Paul Thurrott? It seems that Microsoft is majorly focusing at eyecandy, security, and Spotlight like features only. Let's take performence as an example:

Performance is absolutely pathetic: On an Athlon 3400+ system with 2 GB of RAM and a high-end video card, the system often slows to a crawl. This is a bit different than previous builds, so I can only assume it's an issue unique to this build.

I know we still can't judge since this is still a beta. But it seems that Vista is shaping up to be a resource hog

How can I even begin to express how awful Media Center Vista is? They've taken a UI that was iPod simple and turned it into the functional equivalent of the control panel in a 727 airplane. What was once beautiful and elegant is now bloated and ugly. What was once easy to use is now indecipherable. And what was once something to brag about is now something to be ashamed of.

Hehe, so much for Microsoft's eyecandy

 

[MacSA]

.....I hope any potential switchers dont read this thread, they'll come away from it thinking OSX is useless and buggy.

 

[ctachme]

Well, the fact is Tiger does kinda suck. There are a lot of bugs and UI inconsistencies. Most annoyingly, the Finder really sucks.

Therefore, I doubt that this rumor is real.

Why?

Because it's so obvious. This isn't based on insider information, it's based on 2 seconds of thought. This rumor is like saying: "insiders report that Leopard will have a different desktop background"

 

[TBi]

.....I hope any potential switchers dont read this thread, they'll come away from it thinking OSX is useless and buggy.

I hope they do, and i hope they read about windows too so they can make an informed decision. I think a problem with Mac OSX is that you have people who say its the best OS ever and won't ever dare say it has any bugs, and on the other side you have people who say it's the worst OS ever. I'd like to see more people who'd say "yes it has its bugs, just like every other OS under the sun, but overall it is more user friendly than other OS's". Honesty goes a long way.

 

[Stella]

Anything to fix the Finder, please!

Oh, and a consistent GUI.

I think its likely that Steve will demo at MWSF.

 

[dogbone]

I'd be happy for a 'cancel' button when launching programs. Surprisingly often I hit the wrong icon in the dock and have to wait for it to load then quit.

 

[Chundles]

Probably the only part of OS X that I wish more resembled Windows is networking. I would love to be able to browse the contents of networked computers without having the mount each individual shared folder. And when I share something on a network, I want to assign a folder a shared status rather then moving the file out of it's location to put it in the public folder.

Other than that, I can't really think of anything that would make it better, but then, I use Dashboard and spotlight all the time and I didn't think of them when I was using Panther.

 

[TBi]

I'd be happy for a 'cancel' button when launching programs. Surprisingly often I hit the wrong icon in the dock and have to wait for it to load then quit.

You could say the same about windows, linux or any other OS on the planet. I don't know of any that give you that functionality (although i think you can force quit a *nix application from the command line as it's starting, if you started it from the command line).

Personally speaking, UI inconsistancy doesn't bug me and tiger does have its bugs but so does windows, or linux, or unix, or...


And i agree with what chundles said, i wish you didn't have to mount network shares to look at them. Can't OSX do this for you in the background so you don't even know it's happening? Click on a share and it automatically mounts it and lets you have access, it can even pop up a dialog saying "connecting" with the option to cancel it.

 

[7on]

Probably the only part of OS X that I wish more resembled Windows is networking. I would love to be able to browse the contents of networked computers without having the mount each individual shared folder. And when I share something on a network, I want to assign a folder a shared status rather then moving the file out of it's location to put it in the public folder.

Other than that, I can't really think of anything that would make it better, but then, I use Dashboard and spotlight all the time and I didn't think of them when I was using Panther.

They had networking like that in 10.3.0-10.3.3
It didn't work well with large networks, by browsing you ended up mounting like 30 shares without an ability to unmount them thus causing Finder hangups and causing the macs to not sleep.
I do on the other hand would like OSX to have more of a Knoppix networking scheme

As for package uninstallers...
I wish Apple would get rid of packages altogether. Store the Application data, fonts, etc. all in the Application. Maybe each user would have a Preference folder in their library still (but I'd go by other naming schemes for the plists). The solution isn't to make a a way to uninstall packages, the solution is for Apple to get rid of them altogether.

 

[biohazard6969]

i think a great feature to include would be tabbed browsing for both finder windows and the iTunes music store. i think that would be a great time and space saver

 

[Chundles]

They had networking like that in 10.3.0-10.3.3
It didn't work well with large networks, by browsing you ended up mounting like 30 shares without an ability to unmount them thus causing Finder hangups and causing the macs to not sleep.
I do on the other hand would like OSX to have more of a Knoppix networking scheme

As for package uninstallers...
I wish Apple would get rid of packages altogether. Store the Application data, fonts, etc. all in the Application. Maybe each user would have a Preference folder in their library still (but I'd go by other naming schemes for the plists). The solution isn't to make a a way to uninstall packages, the solution is for Apple to get rid of them altogether.

I don't want to mount at all, I just want to browse, that's what I'm asking for. It's the only thing Explorer does well in my opinion. Computers are little folders, I open that folder, there are the shared folders, printers etc that are available for use.

 

[SiliconAddict]

What do they say about nowhere to go but up?


Seriously. Finder is the single biggest turn-off to OS X. If NOTHING else its ability to beachball when network browsing...Sure it will time out....after something like 3 minutes.

Say what you will abut Windows but 2K XP is pretty damn good about coming back with a network error within seconds.

 

[mm2005]

So what is wrong with Finder?

Sounds good. Finder, as is, is pretty unnecessary.

Care to elaborate? Do you think folders are unnecessary too, or?

BTW - does anyone know of 'insider blogs' from Apple, especially from their design teams? Lots of Microsoft employees have set up blogs including the Office 12 design lead Jensen Harris.

 

[Stella]

I'd be happy for a 'cancel' button when launching programs. Surprisingly often I hit the wrong icon in the dock and have to wait for it to load then quit.

Use the force quit option to stop an app from loading - accessible by right clicking on the Apps Dock icon.

( Depending on the app - it will quit there and then or quit after the app has loaded ).

 

[TBi]

They had networking like that in 10.3.0-10.3.3
It didn't work well with large networks, by browsing you ended up mounting like 30 shares without an ability to unmount them thus causing Finder hangups and causing the macs to not sleep.

In an advanced OS like OSX browsing a network shouldn't cause the finder to hang, thats just bad design.

Also when i said mount in the background, i meant without user interaction. The finder could always un-mount in the background if that was how it worked, re-mount when accessing it again.

 

[50548]

I hope Apple REALLY takes their time, and gets Leopard right.

Tiger is a train wreck. Buggy. Poorly designed. Many, many flaws.

And Longhorn, as much as I hate to say it, is shaping up to be a solid OS.

Apple needs to make 10.5 a huge leapfrog, and Jobs better put that famous polish and demanding requests into it. There are other parts to Apple other than the new Nano.

Personally, I am excited for Leopard, and I think Apple will get it right since Jobs gets to show up Gates again. Make Windows Vista look soo--2001.

But they better take their time, add a ton of features which make the upgrade worth it. And for the love of god, make sure it is of commercial quality. After the mess that is Tiger, we deserve it.

Again the whining club raises its ugly head in Mac forums...I've NEVER HAD any serious issue with Tiger both on my iMac G5 and my iBook G3, since 10.4.0 and on to 10.4.1 and 10.4.2.

The fact that you have problems doesn't mean everybody suffers from them...bugs will always exist, but most of them are NEVER perceived by any ordinary user. Tiger IS a delight to use, totally plug-n-play when compared to Mr. Gates's product and light-years ahead of any Winblows or Linux distribution.

As for Long(wait), it's not even released, and most of its flagship features are either scrapped or represent just blatant or bad copies of the Mac OS...stop bragging about something that doesn't exist, especially something that is already plagued by viruses before the very moment of launch...better yet, send a CV to Dvorak and see if he hires you as an intern...face the facts and cool down, please.

 

[nagromme]

I like the Tiger Finder pretty well--it has slowly come a long way--and I LOVE Column View compared to anything else out there! But a new one is still needed, and if Tiger didn't get that, Leopard is sure to. Browsing like iTunes sounds like a great variation on my beloved Column View--and a logical use of the speed of Spotlight.

Having read at Ars that Apple's underlying system now has GREAT metadata capabilities that are barely being tapped, it's good to see hints of more being done with that.


"the only information Apple has provided about Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard is that it will come sometime between late 2006 and 2007 and that it will be Intel compatible"

I would add two more pieces of info we know:

* It will be PowerPC compatible (I know some have worried about that. But we know this due to the overlap with the CPU transition timetable. Not that later versions of OS X can't also be PPC-friendly! Apple's used to maintaining both versions.)

* It will have a TRUE, fully-scalable, resolution-independent user interface, with everything from window borders to stoplight widgets redrawn at much larger bitmap size (and maybe more vector use)--with the option to see everything (menu text, apps, toolbar buttons, everything) larger OR smaller than we see them now. With a single, global, system-wide scaling setting. Great for fitting more windows on a display when you need to--and then scale the other way to make things big and readable when you want that. Ideal for increasingly high res displays. Yay!

We know this because it's in Tiger--but half-finished and hidden. The developer tools can enable it for testing, and Apple has told developers to get their apps ready for this (which makes it odd that I've never heard from any developer about making higher-res UI graphics).

Here's a sample image (with Safari at 200% scaling--BUT imagine that the window borders/buttons were redrawn to be as nice as the fonts are):
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/20
(Search for "Scalable User Interface" and click to zoom the image to full size.)

And here's Apple's page on the matter:
http://developer.apple.com/releasenotes/GraphicsImaging/ResolutionIndependentUI.html

Pretty clear

And a bonus: re-drawing all the graphics is a necessity for the res-independent UI... so that means Apple is likely to give us more UI consistency at last! Why re-make half a dozen slghtly-different themes? I think they'll settle on just a few. Maybe White, Metal, and Pro--but not so many variations on each! (And Aperture almost seems to be merging Pro with the "New Metal" of iTunes 6.)