Mac OS X 10.5 Details?

[SiliconAddict]

No, not already. Late 2006 or early 2007.

My money is on 2007. Apple is going to have their hands full with x86 conversions and updates of all their core apps in 2006... My guess is they are already well on their way there right now but with tweaking and whatnot...I'm guessing mid 2006 before things start to settle down and they start focusing on Leopard and wow if that isn’t the timeframe for WWDC. *coughs*developer*coughs*copy*coughs*

As for Leopard. Its going to be an interesting release. At no point in the last 6 years has Apple and MS been as close in terms of OS development as what Tiger and Vista will be at by fall of 2006. MS is finally making some good progress with their monthly build releases of Vista and Beta 2 is schedule for Nov/Dec release that should bring all the parts together. I don't think MS is going to be pushing back Vista's release at this point so Apple has its work cut out for it over the next 18 months. (My guess as to when Leopard will show its muzzle.) Apple better make it a massive OS bomb on the industry widening the gap between Windows and OS X again or there could be (some - a lot) of loss in OS X's momentum. None of these 200 new feature which really translates into one or two productivity enhancing features like spotlight or dashboard. OS X needs more then a fresh coat of paint and an expansion to the front porch. They need to install a pool, add a second level, update the kitchen, and install that entertainment center expansion to the house.
Time will tell though. Apple has had 2+ years to plan their strategy against Longshot/Vista. Doubtless part of that strategy was the migration to x86. Its going to be interesting to see what the results of that strategy is in about 18 months.

 

[Abstract]

The Finder is like looking at a turd as you swim close to the bottom of a beautiful swimming pool.

(I wish it was like Windows Explorer)

 

[Flying Llama]

Well, here is a program that will look in your /Library/Receipts folder, list all packages installed, and will reverse whatever the installer did.

Here is a program called Desinstaller.

Note: It will only work with apps installed using apple's installer, so this would apply to you. Uninstall iWork, then reinstall it. THERE!

llama

 

[Zoowatch]

there are a few bugs in tiger
but none of them is really significant

we are Mac users and we are good at working round the problem

i'm looking forward to an improved Finder...
that'll greatly influence any user's experince on a Mac

 

[whenpaulsparks]

a search like itunes? have they not looked at tiger's finder? it has a search bar just like itunes.

come on, people. lets get some solid new features. tiger introduced the new search features. if leopard is more search crap, then i'm going to be disappointed.

i never have to search for files. i think i've used spotlight once to show my brother how cool it CAN be, but i never use it. i actually pressed apple+space the other day and freaked out not knowing what the spotlight thing was doing there. and i'm a very experienced computer user, studying software engineering in college.

please, god, don't let leopard be another search-based release. i want good, true features, like a full 3d UI.

and about VISTA comments (not LONGHORN anymore), i dont think most of you have been keeping up with the latest releases over in the MS world. i'm a .NET developer, so i have to keep up. vista is shaping to be a very, very nice OS. microsoft is getting stuff right. so its time not to be cocky and arrogant and to really push apple to develop even better software.

 

[maya]

May Apple implement an iApp icon on the menu bar like they have for sound, display, time, etc.. Since the iApps are crying out to be integrated into the OS for a while now.

A unified look, pretty please. At this point and time, that is all I have. Editing meta-tags is great.

And animated desktop wallpaper, too.

 

[XNine]

You're missing the point. This is to do with "packages". There are several apps such as iMovie, iTunes, iDVD, Final Cut Pro, etc. that are installed as "packages". They're not the run of the mill "drag the application into the /Applications Folder" installation. For example, if you install Garageband and ALL the jampacks on your powerbook, you might be running of out disk space so you think to yourself, "Oh, I should remove some of these 4GB jam packs that I don't use very much." There is no easy way to just go into 'System Preferences' and goto 'Add/Remove Programs' and select the jampack and have it remove all the stuff that it installed all over your harddrive.

Instead, you have to be knowledgable enough to go around looking for where everything is and manually delete it while trying to not delete the jampacks you want to keep on the system. And even still, unless you find and remove the '.pkg' file in /Library/Receipts/ the system will still believe it's installed and look for updates to that package in software update.

You could just say, "Screw the people that don't know unix and don't know how to selectivly delete files." But that doesn't seem to fit with the whole 'user experience'. Linux has RPM's for package management. As much as I hate RPM, at least I can back out an RPM. Solaris has a PKG system too.... you can backout/uninstall packages on Solaris..... AIX has an incredible package management system. Extremely complex system that the ability to not just 'revert' a revision, it can revert an entire upgrade very easily.

Package Management systems have been around in unix systems for years and years. Apple decided it was too hard to make a good one, so they ignored it all together.

I'm sorry, but this isn't winblows. You don't NEED a system preference to do this. I have NEVER, EVER trashed a package install app, then ahd problems re-installing it. Adobe CS? Dragged all of the apps to the trash, deleted, and gone. Re-installed 5 mintues later, no hitch. And a TON of package apps have uninstallers with them.

Garageband stores the loops differently from where the application is. You find this happening with all apps like Motion, FCP/FCE, Soundtrack, etc.

The exception that I have seen (as there always IS an exception) is anything from Symantec (Norton). They will place HIDDEN files all over your drive, some will corrupt and negate the built-in firewall, others will give different kinds of errors.

And, if you're still having problems, just use this: http://www.osxgnu.org/info/pkgdelete.html

But, in my personal opinion, if you don't know what you're doing when installing an app and don't have knowledge of the various places apps put things, you shouldn't be installing anything.

 

[Diatribe]

I like the Tiger Finder pretty well--it has slowly come a long way--and I LOVE Column View compared to anything else out there! But a new one is still needed, and if Tiger didn't get that, Leopard is sure to. Browsing like iTunes sounds like a great variation on my beloved Column View--and a logical use of the speed of Spotlight.

Having read at Ars that Apple's underlying system now has GREAT metadata capabilities that are barely being tapped, it's good to see hints of more being done with that.


"the only information Apple has provided about Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard is that it will come sometime between late 2006 and 2007 and that it will be Intel compatible"

I would add two more pieces of info we know:

* It will be PowerPC compatible (I know some have worried about that. But we know this due to the overlap with the CPU transition timetable. Not that later versions of OS X can't also be PPC-friendly! Apple's used to maintaining both versions.)

* It will have a TRUE, fully-scalable, resolution-independent user interface, with everything from window borders to stoplight widgets redrawn at much larger bitmap size (and maybe more vector use)--with the option to see everything (menu text, apps, toolbar buttons, everything) larger OR smaller than we see them now. With a single, global, system-wide scaling setting. Great for fitting more windows on a display when you need to--and then scale the other way to make things big and readable when you want that. Ideal for increasingly high res displays. Yay!

We know this because it's in Tiger--but half-finished and hidden. The developer tools can enable it for testing, and Apple has told developers to get their apps ready for this (which makes it odd that I've never heard from any developer about making higher-res UI graphics).

Here's a sample image (with Safari at 200% scaling--BUT imagine that the window borders/buttons were redrawn to be as nice as the fonts are):
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/20
(Search for "Scalable User Interface" and click to zoom the image to full size.)

And here's Apple's page on the matter:
http://developer.apple.com/releasenotes/GraphicsImaging/ResolutionIndependentUI.html

Pretty clear

And a bonus: re-drawing all the graphics is a necessity for the res-independent UI... so that means Apple is likely to give us more UI consistency at last! Why re-make half a dozen slghtly-different themes? I think they'll settle on just a few. Maybe White, Metal, and Pro--but not so many variations on each! (And Aperture almost seems to be merging Pro with the "New Metal" of iTunes 6.)

Finally a good, informative, correct comment in this thread... thanks.

Oh and to all that said Tiger isn't or is buggy... Tiger isn't Windows buggy, no. But having things that don't work AT ALL shouldn't be in a .2 release. iChat for example still won't use the system wide proxy settings making it useless if you need to connect through a proxy... one app not working is pretty major if you ask me. There a lot of small bugs but remember that Panther had a lot of bugs too. Leopard will too if they really add so many new features. It really will depend on when Vista will come out and how soon in 2006/2007 Apple will ship...

Tiger, as Apple has said a lot of times, was a release to build the underlying architecture for many things to come. It was never meant to really be the consumer oriented feature release, that's propably one reason for the many bugs. Considering the huge behind-the-scenes work on OS X for Tiger, Leopard will be an awesome OS.

 

[ryanw]

And i agree with what chundles said, i wish you didn't have to mount network shares to look at them. Can't OSX do this for you in the background so you don't even know it's happening? Click on a share and it automatically mounts it and lets you have access, it can even pop up a dialog saying "connecting" with the option to cancel it.

What I think is worse is not being able to look at FTP server files without mounting it with safari. It would be cool if you could browse an FTP site without mounting it and then at the top of the web page there could be a button that says "Mount". So then it would mount that server as a drive.

 

[Whistleway]

I am so in love with x.4.2. I am a new switcher after a dozen years on windows and tiger really really rocks. so much, that i would be hard find to say one thing to improve on it.e I won't be upgrading for a long time to come

 

[Chundles]

No, really? I thought they'd named it after the Footballers Wives character
*cough*

Maybe it's a hint for OS 11,

11.0 - Cab Sav
11.1 - Pinot
11.2 - Semillion
11.3 - Shiraz
11.4 - Verdelho (later changed to Merlot after mothers groups kicked up a stink because it sounded very much like "bordello."
11.5 - Sav Blanc

 

[XNine]

What I think is worse is not being able to look at FTP server files without mounting it with safari. It would be cool if you could browse an FTP site without mounting it and then at the top of the web page there could be a button that says "Mount". So then it would mount that server as a drive.

How can you look at an FTP site if you're not connected to it?
Why are you using Safari instead of Fetch, CaptainFTP, or Transmit?

And yes, OS X CAN mount network shares in the background. First, connect to the network share using safari's addy bar, tell it that you want to add the user/pass to keychain, then drag the afp file from the addy bar to your desktop, or a documents folder or whereever you want to store it.

Then go into Sys Prefs>Accounts>Login Items and choose the afp file, and VUALA! Whenever you login OS X will mount the drive. Or, now that the network share is mounted, use a hotkey program (I still use KeyXing, it's not distro'd anymore, but it's the best ever made) to connect to drives using a hotkey that I define.

Done.

 

[nagromme]

a search like itunes? have they not looked at tiger's finder? it has a search bar just like itunes.

The article didn't say search like iTunes, it said browse like iTunes. (The "Browse" button.) In iTunes this is like column view--but you'd be looking at things in categories OTHER than just the literal file organization. Spotlight would enable that, and I hope it's true!

come on, people. lets get some solid new features. tiger introduced the new search features. if leopard is more search crap, then i'm going to be disappointed. ... please, god, don't let leopard be another search-based release. i want good, true features, like a full 3d UI.

Tiger is far more than "search crap," but how does a rumor of one feature in Leopard make you worry that it's the ONLY new feature?

Expect the UI to evolve in Leopard, but no gimmicky 3D total replacement.

i never have to search for files.

You're the minority by a massive margin. That's fine, but don't assume your needs are everyone else's.

and about VISTA comments (not LONGHORN anymore), i dont think most of you have been keeping up with the latest releases over in the MS world. i'm a .NET developer, so i have to keep up. vista is shaping to be a very, very nice OS. microsoft is getting stuff right. so its time not to be cocky and arrogant and to really push apple to develop even better software.

I do hope Vista IS good enough to push Apple even farther than they already push themselves. But Microsoft's history has long been one of "we're getting better, honest! THIS time, Simon Says!" But big plans don't always turn to ideal realities--witness all the big stuff MS has REMOVED from Vista just to get it out the door, even late. So it does feel like crying wolf until we see whether Vista really catches up to Tiger or not. (And then Leopard comes along anyway.)

I am so in love with x.4.2. I am a new switcher after a dozen years on windows and tiger really really rocks. so much, that i would be hard find to say one thing to improve on it.e I won't be upgrading for a long time to come

You will. See that pulsing light when your Mac sleeps? It's planting subliminal suggestions. You'll buy Leopard and you'll like it!

 

[johnnyjibbs]

Let's hope we get a proper cocoa Finder this time. And I'm hoping for a decent new interface. While I like the Spotlight window (except for the fact it ought to be classed as a program so that you can switch between it and other apps), the new Finder search is horrid. It looks clunky and horrible and a mismatch of all sorts of styles. And while Smart Folders are a good idea I hate the fact that, like with Windows XP, I have no idea where they are or anything.

Here's hoping there's quite a bit more to Leopard though. I found that Tiger's feature list was disappointingly similar to Panther's. Oh, and let's just pray they don't invent a new interface style to go alongside Aqua, Brushed Metal and 'Plastic'.

 

[benpatient]

You mean you haven't seen the screenshot of the new "rubber" UI that's going to be used on iTunes 7 to match the next-gen bouncing iPod? Drop it and it bounces, instead of breaking. And it's waterproof.

Rubber Rules. It's all grey/black and delicately textured with a soft glow and rounded, smooth edges. It's the best Aqua UI yet!

 

[wdlove]

Anything to fix the Finder, please!

Oh, and a consistent GUI.

I think its likely that Steve will demo at MWSF.

I'm very happy to hear some information about 10.5 Leopard.

I also that Steve will give us a preview at MWSF. Steve will be very busy with the introduction of the Intel Mac at WWDC.

 

[NeoMayhem]

Maybe... Leopard... should keep an installation log... and when you delete the app's icon (folder) it asks "delete associated files? Y/N"

Now that is a good idea.

OS X already keeps the logs, they are the .pkg files in /Library/Receipts.

 

[Coheebuzz]

I have always wondered how new Mac users that don't have any experience to any of apple's OS's prior to OS X use their computer.

I currently use Tiger and since upgrading from OS9, i have never used the Toolbar or have folders open inside windows - i just double-click my way through folders till i find what i want - and i can do it faster than Spotlight!
But am sure everybody customizes their computer to their needs and since we have more switchers from the Wintel platfrom as ever, i think these new users have a difficulty 'detaching' from the windows file browsing way.

So how many of you love the Finder as it is and don't want bulky, button infested windows everywere? Damn i still miss System 6

 

[Marble]

I'm still unhappy with Tiger. 9 boots out of 10, I still can't change my resolution or the brightness of my Powerbook's screen, even though this issue was supposedly fixed in 10.4.2.

 

[Kelson]

Sheesh....

You don't sound like an offended fan boy or anything....</SARCASM>

I've found 10.4 to be worse than 10.2 and 10.3 from a stability perspective, but a bit faster on the performance front. I'm desperately waiting for 10.4.3. More issues with Java that I did not have in 10.3, occassional kernel panics, that I've never had before. Issues with running Virtual PC, not all Apple's fault, but a byproduct of 10.4. (Forced upgrade to Virtual PC 7, due to the kernel api changes)

I'm not one of those 'creative' types tho. I'm someone trying to use OS X inside of a windows world to get my job done, which mostly revolves around Word, Excel, Powerpoint. Not to mention a host of web issues surrounding alot of Flash and Java content that expects to run in IE. Or needing to run Virtual PC to load up Visio diagrams so I can convert them to XML drawing format that will let OmniGraffle load them.

It's nice not having to worry about viruses and having MS Office and UNIX in the same box. But, it is not cookies and rainbows, there is a significant amount of beating my head on the desk due to interop frustrations.

I personally can't wait until I get an Intel based Powerbook, so I run Leopard and load up Vista for any critical windows compatibility issues. Tiger is not always a delight to use compared to Mr. Gates's products, especially when you need to interoperate with them.

- Kelson

Again the whining club raises its ugly head in Mac forums...I've NEVER HAD any serious issue with Tiger both on my iMac G5 and my iBook G3, since 10.4.0 and on to 10.4.1 and 10.4.2.

The fact that you have problems doesn't mean everybody suffers from them...bugs will always exist, but most of them are NEVER perceived by any ordinary user. Tiger IS a delight to use, totally plug-n-play when compared to Mr. Gates's product and light-years ahead of any Winblows or Linux distribution.

As for Long(wait), it's not even released, and most of its flagship features are either scrapped or represent just blatant or bad copies of the Mac OS...stop bragging about something that doesn't exist, especially something that is already plagued by viruses before the very moment of launch...better yet, send a CV to Dvorak and see if he hires you as an intern...face the facts and cool down, please.

 

[Kelson]

That's not ridiculous or anything....

But, in my personal opinion, if you don't know what you're doing when installing an app and don't have knowledge of the various places apps put things, you shouldn't be installing anything.

WTF are you talking about? Apple is about being "For the rest of us." You are trying to pull some elitest techie bull***** here.

That sentiment may hold for dealing with enterprise servers and such, but not for a home computer.

- Kelson

 

[Diatribe]

The one thing OS X is still missing is a way to restore files from the trash and automatically put them where they came from... this is one thing I miss from Windows.

 

[50548]

You don't sound like an offended fan boy or anything....</SARCASM>

I've found 10.4 to be worse than 10.2 and 10.3 from a stability perspective, but a bit faster on the performance front. I'm desperately waiting for 10.4.3. More issues with Java that I did not have in 10.3, occassional kernel panics, that I've never had before. Issues with running Virtual PC, not all Apple's fault, but a byproduct of 10.4. (Forced upgrade to Virtual PC 7, due to the kernel api changes)

I'm not one of those 'creative' types tho. I'm someone trying to use OS X inside of a windows world to get my job done, which mostly revolves around Word, Excel, Powerpoint. Not to mention a host of web issues surrounding alot of Flash and Java content that expects to run in IE. Or needing to run Virtual PC to load up Visio diagrams so I can convert them to XML drawing format that will let OmniGraffle load them.

It's nice not having to worry about viruses and having MS Office and UNIX in the same box. But, it is not cookies and rainbows, there is a significant amount of beating my head on the desk due to interop frustrations.

I personally can't wait until I get an Intel based Powerbook, so I run Leopard and load up Vista for any critical windows compatibility issues. Tiger is not always a delight to use compared to Mr. Gates's products, especially when you need to interoperate with them.

- Kelson

"Fanboy" or not, I am simply stating facts here...apart from a few cosmetic issues, I've NEVER had any serious problem with Tiger on both machines, and yes, Tiger is INDEED a delight to use.

Improvements are always welcome, such as a speedier access to WebDAV, a more stable way for remembering individual window view settings and a fix to some image-mounting issues...well, there are no other problems as far as I can remember...in fact, MS Office has been the main culprit in terms of bugginess or occasional crashes...Apple apps are pretty alright.

No kernels, no Java issues, no nothing...Tiger is great as of now.

And sorry about that, but most of the issues you face have NOTHING to do with OS X...it's not Apple's fault if Visio hasn't been ported to the Mac yet.

 

[JeffTL]

Funny, I haven't noticed any Tiger bugs.

 

[ZildjianKX]

For 10.5, I'd just be happy if:

Upgrade the "Save As" interface. Why can't I rename folders in it like in Windows?

Would be nice if applications could use the Software Updates panel is the OS, so it would all be in one place.

Also a panel to auto update widgets.

As far as Tiger being buggy... would nice if they actually fixed the bandwidth error problem with iChat's videos... still can't use my iSight for chatting since 10.4 (and yes, 10.4.2 was suppose to fix it, but didn't for all users).