Install and Uninstall should be the same program, really. You should be able to Verify installations, too. Apple should really have an Install framework, like rpms in Linux. That way application vendors don't use their own installers, they use Apple's.JFreak said:
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Mac OS X 10.5 Details?
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Why upgrade to Vista? What new apps are they going to have? Will they finally put in a Calendar/Tasks program like iCal? They did with 3.1, but why not with 9x on up?netdog said:
Will they include a free movie creation program that you DON'T have to go online and download?
Will they include a GOOD wordprocessor instead of wordpad?
As far as I'm concerned with Vista, it's a bunch of eye-candy. OS X should be nicer, better, faster, cooler, hotter, sexier, the best OS Apple has come out with in its time.
slooksterPSV said:
Is AppleWorks much better than WordPad? Windows Movie Maker comes with every version of XP, and they're updating it to Windows Movie Maker HD with Vista. They'll have a very competent Calendar program, called Windows Calendar (which is based off of iCal, undoubtedly, but does look pretty nice...)
I'm just as much a fan of OS X as you are, but let's be honest here....Vista's a substantial upgrade, and it includes all the features you just listed.
Plus, a lot of people find OS X so nice because of some of its eye candy. Seriously, when I show my friends my computer, the things they're most interested in is minimizing windows, Front Row, using the dock, expose, and dashboard - all things that involve a lot of pretty graphical effects.
Longhorn schmoghorn
Longhorn is like 5 years overdue, and it still has not been released in any kind of shape that one might suggest it's shping up to be anything. Wait until it is released. It will have plenty of bugs. Also Microsoft is planning to sell sell it in many forms and to actually get the whole operating system, meaning all the bells and whistles you will have to pay a whole lot more than it costs for OS X. You can get a stripped down version of it for the X price, but if you want to use it for multi-media prepare to be reamed. Why do you even mention these OS's together. When windows is evenm half the "plug n play" OS that Apple has created you may speak. But I don't think Windows will ever have the stability of Unix-based OSX. Let's face it X doesn't crash or freeze. It's got legs of steel while poor, whimpy Windows is always buckling at the knees.
Longhorn is like 5 years overdue, and it still has not been released in any kind of shape that one might suggest it's shping up to be anything. Wait until it is released. It will have plenty of bugs. Also Microsoft is planning to sell sell it in many forms and to actually get the whole operating system, meaning all the bells and whistles you will have to pay a whole lot more than it costs for OS X. You can get a stripped down version of it for the X price, but if you want to use it for multi-media prepare to be reamed. Why do you even mention these OS's together. When windows is evenm half the "plug n play" OS that Apple has created you may speak. But I don't think Windows will ever have the stability of Unix-based OSX. Let's face it X doesn't crash or freeze. It's got legs of steel while poor, whimpy Windows is always buckling at the knees.
BWhaler said:
Apple does have an installer, which also handles uninstalls. The problem is that developers don't always use it and that users tend to delete it after installing the app in question. I see your point in that the Apple installer should be an application in the Utilities folder which you can run and then use the package receipts to list installed software and uninstall from there if you've trashed the app's original installer.bigwig said:
But they'll never solve the problem of developers choosing to use their own installers or not writing package receipts. There are always going to be nonconformists in the Apple sandbox. Just deleting the application gets the job done for almost everything in OS X whereas deleting the app in Windows can cause all sorts of trouble.
maybe itunes movie along with it?
Since if the speculation is right,
Mac os 10.5 Will have a bit torrent like concept, of people sharing bandwidth to decrease the load. They would also give you itunes credits in return or something along those lines.
While, if this is happening itunes can start having a movie service, because the load on apple will be miniscule.
Just speculation
Since if the speculation is right,
Mac os 10.5 Will have a bit torrent like concept, of people sharing bandwidth to decrease the load. They would also give you itunes credits in return or something along those lines.
While, if this is happening itunes can start having a movie service, because the load on apple will be miniscule.
Just speculation
So you've never seen a crash or spinning beachball of death with Tiger?
Not in iChat? Not in Safari? Not in the Finder? Not with Spotlight?I've seen hundreds of SPOD's and maybe half a dozen kernel panics.
XP went gold Aug. 25th 2001... less than 5 years from today. Launch was Oct. 25th. If Vista launches in January then it will be about 5 years and 2-3 months between it and XP. Obviously it ain't anywhere close to five years late.
It's about 12-18 months late.
bbrosemer said:
Not strictly true...
Windows Server 2003 had quite a bit of work done to the kernel and the low-level system. XP-SP2 backported a fair chunk of this to XP, but there's still quite a bit of difference between the XP and 2k3 systems. 2003 is apparently quite a bit cleaner, code-wise, than XP.
AFAIK, Vista is a development of the 2k3 architecture (although it was originally meant to be much more of a re-write).
[edit]
Just to confirm, here's a bit more detail on what was new in the WS2k3 kernel:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/03/06/WindowsServer2003/
It was largely the security features which made their way into XP-SP2 -- the rest of the architecture additions will make their way to the desktop with Vista.
Actually, if you use Apple's installer, you get a package receipt. You would have to go out of your way to delete the receipt. The catch is that metapackages don't install a receipt for itself IIRC, just the children packages. And you can't specify an uninstall script in an installer package. You would have to create a second installer package which has a script (that you write) which removes your installed components, your package receipt, and install it along-side your application (if you actually present one). After being spoiled by the fact that an installer package is EASY to make... I am not sure many want to expend effort to make the uninstaller package (which is more than the installer package), especially smaller devs working in their free time and so on.
Still, the great thing is that you CAN just remove the app... unless the tool doesn't present an application... such as a driver with a pref-pane. This is actually something I am attempting to tackle myself right now.
have you been to the vista website? this is ridiculous i cant believe people would actually use that OS!!! i thank god every day for giving us Mac OS (by god i mean the Steve!!!)
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/features/default.mspx
Rip off much?
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/features/default.mspx
Rip off much?
Fukui said:
That was back before XP shipped. Back then, Longhorn was only supposed to be a very minor update of XP. No Avalon, Indigo, WinFS etc. but just basically XP+MCE+.Net. Kinda like an XP Second Edition. As time went on they stated pulling more of Blackcomb's features into Longhorn and moving the date back to that of Blackcomb (2005-2006).
The original Longhorn (slated for 2003) was basically released as SP2 and company (WMP10, MSN Messenger 7 etc.) and Blackcomb is now the Vista "wave" with Avalon, Indigo, WorkFlow, DX10/DX9L, the Sidebar and Indigo being released with Vista and being ported back to XP SP2-- Powershell (MSH), IE7, WMP11, Windows Desktop Search 3, and a few others being released before Vista and being ported back to XP SP2 --- and lastly with WinFS, Longhorn Server, 64-bit, and Office 2007 being released shortly after Vista (with WinFS, 64-bit, and Office all running on XP).\
The first public showing of Longhorn was at WinHec 2003 and they date they mentioned then was around the 10th aniversary of Windows 95. That would have been perfectly in step with an Office 2006 release as well.
I've seen what Microsoft has done with Longhorn and a lot of people will be attracted to it for the Eye Candy. Heck I am. I love OS X don't get me wrong.
Windows is starting to take the look of SLED 10 (SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10) with the integrated search (not sure if anyone else went to Brainshare) kind of like Beagle, the Window look of Gnome, Transparency. Mac OS X features or semi-features such as the Window listing, etc. Every company does it.
Right now I've settled with the OS's I've used. If I buy a PC I know I'll use it for gaming, if I buy a Mac I'll use it how I've always used it - graphics, layouts, etc. (I'm a bad artist, layout person, etc., but I have a Mac so it looks good *thumbs up*). OS's will just provide what users need out of them. Linux has tons and tons of opensource items - that's good. Mac's have a unique and simplistic interface - e.g. the Dock, the Menu bar, etc. Windows has tons of games.
You may see me buying a PC down the road probably just for gaming. I can't wait to see what OS X Leopard brings, but each OS has its flaws, each OS has its ups and downs, just look at what you need. I'm going to stop flaming Microsoft and Linux because for my needs, they get the job done, but Mac OS X is my Power Machine - Exposé, the dock, terminal, etc.
EDIT: A lot of the stuff we say - Leopard should do this, Leopard should do that, Linux did (alt-tab preview)--again this was at brainshare for SLED 10--, Microsoft used, and Apple is still a coin toss.
Windows is starting to take the look of SLED 10 (SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10) with the integrated search (not sure if anyone else went to Brainshare) kind of like Beagle, the Window look of Gnome, Transparency. Mac OS X features or semi-features such as the Window listing, etc. Every company does it.
Right now I've settled with the OS's I've used. If I buy a PC I know I'll use it for gaming, if I buy a Mac I'll use it how I've always used it - graphics, layouts, etc. (I'm a bad artist, layout person, etc., but I have a Mac so it looks good *thumbs up*). OS's will just provide what users need out of them. Linux has tons and tons of opensource items - that's good. Mac's have a unique and simplistic interface - e.g. the Dock, the Menu bar, etc. Windows has tons of games.
You may see me buying a PC down the road probably just for gaming. I can't wait to see what OS X Leopard brings, but each OS has its flaws, each OS has its ups and downs, just look at what you need. I'm going to stop flaming Microsoft and Linux because for my needs, they get the job done, but Mac OS X is my Power Machine - Exposé, the dock, terminal, etc.
EDIT: A lot of the stuff we say - Leopard should do this, Leopard should do that, Linux did (alt-tab preview)--again this was at brainshare for SLED 10--, Microsoft used, and Apple is still a coin toss.
I don't know if you have covered this already, but about the uninstall thing: Whenever you install a program on your computer, even if you are just dragging and dropping, when you open the program, it creates a .plist file in the Library/Preferences folder. It may also create a folder in Application Support, and more. So an uninstaller that would get rid of these files would be useful.