Mac OS X 10.5 Details?

Project said:
^ you're not Catfish of Coverflow fame are you?
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Nope. I wish I had his opengl skillz though :)

I've started going by CFM on arstechnica to avoid confusion with him where possible.
 
Catfish_Man said:
Adium*, PathFinder (it's essentially impossible to write a file browser in Cocoa. The file APIs aren't complete enough), Safari. There's three

Fukui: yeah, I was oversimplifying. There are definitely areas (webkit) where carbon calls into cocoa, and areas (menus) where cocoa calls into carbon though. I disagree about the "little reason to use Carbon". There are areas of Cocoa that are just incomplete (see, for example, XML parsing pre-10.4).
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Right, but I think there was nor will there ever be something called pure cocoa. Cocoa is just a framework for getting things done. If one uses libXML or apache to get things done, so what. It has little to do with cocoa vs. carbon. Its not like cocoa runs in a jail-er-virtual machine, so it pretty much can use whatever it wants, its just basically C with a powerful runtime and object model anyways. Same with carbon minus the runtime and stuff.

I think its best to think about cocoa and carbon as simply infrastructures to build on, if there is a hole somewhere, its not a knock against it, just use something additional like you mention. The thing about filesystem API is understandable, but its all going to break once apple switches to a new FS anyways, thats why apple discouraged its use in cocoa and to stick with POSIX, AFAIR.
 
Fukui said:
The thing about filesystem API is understandable, but its all going to break once apple switches to a new FS anyways, thats why apple discouraged its use in cocoa and to stick with POSIX, AFAIR.
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Eh, generic file concepts map pretty well regardless of filesystem, although I suppose a lot of the weirder carbon bits (FSInfo, etc...) would break or be faked by the new fs. For some reason both Carbon *and* Cocoa lack a working "file was changed" notification. Carbon's sorta works... Cocoa's just doesn't do anything at all. kqueue and the calls spotlight uses work fine though.
 
Catfish_Man said:
Eh, generic file concepts map pretty well regardless of filesystem, although I suppose a lot of the weirder carbon bits (FSInfo, etc...) would break or be faked by the new fs.
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Yea, they can be faked, but just look at the mess its caused with all those ._ files and stuff. Resource forks were one of the biggest compatibility issues between mac and "pc" formats in the old days, maybe I'm crazy, but I don't wanna go back to that... so I'm not sad to see some of those things discouraged... JMO.:)
 
whoooaaahhhh said:
So uh, MacBooks next wednesday anyone? Eh? Eh? Ahhh just thought I'd further derail this thread.
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I predict an iCar in the works.



Whoa. What would a car made by Apple even be like? Holy crap....

God forbid there are overheating issues
 
Stridder44 said:
I predict an iCar in the works.



Whoa. What would a car made by Apple even be like? Holy crap....

God forbid there are overheating issues
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Don't you mean MacCar? With a brilliant design but a whining engine and seats that burn your backside :)

Oh and the steering wheel will light up so you can see it better.
 
TBi said:
Don't you mean MacCar? With a brilliant design but a whining engine and seats that burn your backside :)

Oh and the steering wheel will light up so you can see it better.
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In all honesty I would really like to see this.
 
heck, the current 10.4 install disc gives you the option of installing Asian language fonts or not, as well as disabling Journaling;
Yet it goes ahead and installs the Asian Fonts and forces you into journaling-and you cant even undo it in disc utility-you have to use a third party program like Xupport-and seach for Asain fonts, both "english" as in Hei, or by charachter-and some hide deep in Frameworks/App Services/versions/A/Frameworks/Language analysis frameworks/versions/A/Support-you can safely toss anythiing with "J", Japan, or Katakana characters;

Use Monolingual to get rid of the rest
 
AvSRoCkCO1067 said:
Figured this was a good time for a lil' Vista update, since it's the 'arch rival' of OS 10.5

Anyway, the Beta 2 for Vista (the first public beta) is coming out around May 22nd.

Here are some screenies of pre-Beta 2 Vista:

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/vista_5381_58.jpg

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/vista_5381_24.jpg

Thoughts?
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i have to say im worried. if people are already comfortable with windows and vista offers them a slick and usuable interface...i dont see why people would bother switching. people follow the masses.
 
AvSRoCkCO1067 said:
Figured this was a good time for a lil' Vista update, since it's the 'arch rival' of OS 10.5

Anyway, the Beta 2 for Vista (the first public beta) is coming out around May 22nd.

Here are some screenies of pre-Beta 2 Vista:

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/vista_5381_58.jpg

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/vista_5381_24.jpg

Thoughts?
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Wow, that Media Player is cool, I like how it shows the Album Cover, that's a neat idea, and the blue play circle button on the blue background blends in and hides nicely.

However, back to reality, they still have the taskbar. I HATE the taskbar.
 
zv470 said:
Maybe... Leopard... should keep an installation log... and when you delete the app's icon (folder) it asks "delete associated files? Y/N"
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i COMPLETELY AGREE!
thats a great idea. like when i deleted final cut pro i had to serch for the render files and everything which took up a good 6 gigs on my comp, great idea..
 
cherfizzle said:
i COMPLETELY AGREE!
thats a great idea. like when i deleted final cut pro i had to serch for the render files and everything which took up a good 6 gigs on my comp, great idea..
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Only that the implementation is tricky; if OSX is not supposed to ask that question every time something is emptied from the trash, then OSX should actively poll the system every time you delete "something", and even then it would have hard time determining when to ask the question. I still have plenty of old apps that do not comply to the application bundle, and those apps would be left behind -- which is such inconsistency Apple tries to avoid.

I agree that whenever applications install stuff to somewhere else than the app bundle, there should be a mechanism to remove such libraries. Some application installers have uninstall option, but nobody seems to be using them, which is a big part of a problem. People don't use uninstallers, because OSX feels so simple that one thinks it is not needed.

But then again, many people just install apps and never remove them. Whoever removes apps knows that there are possibly other locations to take care of than just the Applications folder. And perhaps even the people who install apps are in minority -- most people just use what is in the system.
 
Vista looks pretty cool. I'm sure it'll do fine...I would love to see what Leopard will look like. I agree with a post earlier about an easy simple application remover. I'm sure we'll see Photo Booth and Front Row standard as we are on the new intel macs.
 
PJJames said:
Vista looks pretty cool. I'm sure it'll do fine...I would love to see what Leopard will look like. I agree with a post earlier about an easy simple application remover. I'm sure we'll see Photo Booth and Front Row standard as we are on the new intel macs.
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vista looks pretty cool cause it copied everything thats cool from apple!
 
octoberdeath said:
just give me fast reliable and sweet looking so i can show it off to friends and all will be good.
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I'd prefer fast, reliable, and functional so I can get work done. How it looks is irrelevant to me except insofar as it impacts usability (i.e. the drop shadows and animations mostly have a purpose, the dashboard ripple doesn't as far as I can tell).
 
ryanw said:
How about a freaking package removal tool? A TON of apps are being installed with packages these days, and there is no way to remove them without some 3rd party hack or riskscrewing everything up.

How can OSX Claim to be the most advanced Operating System with simple things such as 'uninstallation of applications' missing? Come on!! PLEASE???
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Yea, exactly! I love OS X, but there's a lot of stuff I see in Windows XP that I hope will rub off onto OS X. Apple does a good job of simplicity, but features really are useful and a lot of features or concepts I see in XP and it's GUI I wish OS X had. Along those lines... the OS X GUI needs a major overhaul. It's very inconsistent and lacks smooth feature-integration as is found in XP.
 
wheezy said:
Wow, that Media Player is cool, I like how it shows the Album Cover, that's a neat idea, and the blue play circle button on the blue background blends in and hides nicely.
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Except that is the Media Centre player. While Media Player is similar in looks, you should be comparing this shot to Front Row, which althought looks different, doesn't lose its novelty anywhere near as fast.

In an ideal world, you would take all the best features of XP and add them to OS X, but in reality you have to choose and I choose OS X. It's ironic that people want to be closer to XP when it comes to uninstalling though. Windows often forces you to use an uninstall app or Add/Remove Programs, both of which are clunkier than merely trashing. Not a direct comparison? Well how many times have I done that through XP only to find after a reinstall, preferences have been kept from before. This shows that all the lengthy process does a lot of the time is the same as trashing the app in OS X.

Also, am I right in saying if I used AppZapper or such, it would remove a trial product and all it's files and I could reinstall on the system without it realising I had already had my trial? I think I am right, but I know I am when I say that XP and all Windows have the registry. Delete all and reinstall and you still have details preventing you from cheating. By not deleting one or two files, this is what Apple is merely doing, surely.
 
TBi said:
Don't you mean MacCar? With a brilliant design but a whining engine and seats that burn your backside :)

Oh and the steering wheel will light up so you can see it better.
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I think it's actually going to be called MacRide
 
You guys seem to be forgetting something. Apple has been working on 10.5 for quite some time. I think there are going to be some really nice surprises that make Vista look not so interesting.

FWIW, I still think Vista looks vulgar, much like its predecessors.
 
netdog said:
You guys seem to be forgetting something. Apple has been working on 10.5 for quite some time. I think there are going to be some really nice surprises that make Vista look not so interesting.

FWIW, I still think Vista looks vulgar, much like its predecessors.
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I kind of dissagree. The thing with apple and os x is that they try and make each release able to be run on pretty old hardware. osx has never had much customization for the GUI, windows has, and so will vista. This will probably mean unless apple push os x 10.5 to only really be runnable on recent hardware, or randomly add the ability to change how the gui acts depending on the system, the GUI for 10.5 probably wont be all that different, or immprssive compared to OTT vista running on some insane peice of hardware.

But then again, apple has always been quite good at making a lot work with a little, so who knows.
 
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