Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard 9A377a Seeded

[Donnacha]

So glad I went and ordered my MacBook anyway. Sounds like Leopard won't arrive for a few months yet.

What kills me is that, if it was just Leopard, I wouldn't hesitate to buy now but waiting that month also gives me the chance of the iLife upgrade, the potential upgrade of other software I'm going to buy at the same time such as FCP or Logic, possible surprise hardware upgrades (or, at least, firm indications that I'd only have to wait yet another month for Santa Rosa or an LED screen or whatever).

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!

 

[Gasu E.]

Leopard is due in "Spring", right?

Here in the UK, I think Spring is considered to be the whole months of March, April and May but I remember reading once that it's different in some countries who base their seasons on the equinox etc rather than whole calendar months. When does Spring begin for Americans?

How primitive and crude your system is! Here, we build big circles of stones that are lined up so the sun shines through them exactly when the seasons change. Very scientific.


http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season

 

[Nitromaster]

Wirelessly posted (NokiaN70-1/2.0539.1.2/SN359380002126483 Series60/2.8 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

Just hurrying up and release it Apple.
As for spaces idea ,its been around forever on linux.
On windows on a pc if you use a nvidia card you have an app which allows virtual desktops.

 

[dashiel]

hey, don't say that. keep the faith. it's coming, and this is a sign that they are fixing the bugs

as stated many, many times -- even if this was the gold master candidate it would still take 3-4 weeks to get the discs produced, packaged and shipped to consumers/retail.

we still haven't seen any release candidate builds, and i don't think we will until mid-april, with a GM sometime in early to mid-may.

 

[dashiel]

though, having just taken a look at the list of known issues, it's not that long for an OS level release. i still say leopard won't be coming out until WWDC or just slightly before. there's definitely some overreaction here, probably from the people who believe leopard is coming this month.

 

[guzhogi]

People in the US are so impatient. Ishould know, I live there. My sister spent a month in Spain last summer and she said that people there are a lot more relaxed and slow going. If something's broken they're like "Okay, it's broken," and go on w/ their lives. (Or at least that's how I interpret what my sister interpreted). Here in the US, we want everything now and if it doesn't work, many people throw a hissy fit. I'm more of a laid back kind of person. If something breaks down, I'm like "Okay, how can I fix it?" and try to fix it. If I can't, I'll try to get someone else who's better qualified to try.

 

[shikimo]

Yeah, I got tired of waiting and just ordered an iMac. As my wife pointed out - just regaining the lost hours I spend checking macrumors every day for news on the leopard release - just that productivity increase alone, justifies buying it now, and not thinking about Leopard anymore.

of course here I am reading the macrumors forums again.... heh heh... hmm...

back to work...

good point, but...yeah, good point.

i really hoped id stop hanging out here so much after i finally buy my new machine. damn, looks like it doesn't work that way.

 

[shikimo]

People in the US are so impatient. Ishould know, I live there. My sister spent a month in Spain last summer and she said that people there are a lot more relaxed and slow going. If something's broken they're like "Okay, it's broken," and go on w/ their lives. (Or at least that's how I interpret what my sister interpreted). Here in the US, we want everything now and if it doesn't work, many people throw a hissy fit. I'm more of a laid back kind of person. If something breaks down, I'm like "Okay, how can I fix it?" and try to fix it. If I can't, I'll try to get someone else who's better qualified to try.

Wellllll...I'm not saying your wrong, per se, but as a resident of this band of Europe that enjoys the 'Latin' lifestyle, let me offer a different perspective. I totally agree that Americans are waaay too aggro about having stuff NOW if not sooner, but maaaaaan, the first time you wait 6 weeks to get your ADSL line fixed, or try and get ANYTHING done between 11:30 and 2:30, or have something break in August when everyone is on vacation, you get a little weepy for good ol' fashioned American customer service (I know it ain't great, but it's better than here I assure you). Don't get me wrong, I like it here and I'm stayin', but apathy as a way of professional life can be problematic too.

Sorry I know that's way off track, but since we're all sitting around waiting for Leopard anyway...

...more to the point, do the people who say Leopard in May or June really think that NAB is going to come and go without it? I don't really have an opinion on this subject, but how is that gonna work? It seems there will need to be at least a seriously functional version of it to show off the new goods that are certain to surface there.

 

[gnasher729]

Leopard is due in "Spring", right?

Here in the UK, I think Spring is considered to be the whole months of March, April and May but I remember reading once that it's different in some countries who base their seasons on the equinox etc rather than whole calendar months. When does Spring begin for Americans?

Since Americans live north of the equator, their spring begins in March as well. In Australia, spring starts in September.

 

[FF_productions]

I wonder why Apple still hasn't revealed the Top Secret Features of Leopard. Vista is out already. I told my Dad not to buy a Mac until Leopard comes out but who knows when that is going to come out. I have a feeling it comes out around april, then at wwdc 07, steve jobs will give us a overview of Leopard like he did with Tiger.

 

[Doctor Q]

How primitive and crude your system is! Here, we build big circles of stones that are lined up so the sun shines through them exactly when the seasons change. Very scientific.

Let's just hope that Apple is basing their "spring release" on seasons in the northern hemisphere.

 

[shikimo]

Does anyone else think I'm crazy for wanting to buy hardware running Tiger.9 with a little voucher for Leopard--I'm currently between macs--and then waiting until about Leopard .2 to install it??

I got caught up in this whole discussion and the excitement of brand new features, and then remembered I don't like new system software on my computer...it never works right. Is there something wrong with this logic? The new features will still be new to me in 6 months...

 

[whenpaulsparks]

Does anyone else think I'm crazy for wanting to buy hardware running Tiger.9 with a little voucher for Leopard--I'm currently between macs--and then waiting until about Leopard .2 to install it??

I got caught up in this whole discussion and the excitement of brand new features, and then remembered I don't like new system software on my computer...it never works right. Is there something wrong with this logic? The new features will still be new to me in 6 months...

you absolutely are not crazy. a bit paranoid if all you're using it for is email, web, ilife, itunes, etc. but perfectly normal if you're doing anything hard core with it -- audio recording, video editing, motion graphics, photoshop, aperture, web serving, development, etc.

 

[iJawn108]

"New in leopard Hot Pixles, fully customize any pixle on your screen to any keyboard short cut in leopard."

 

[ATG]

But are there any new features? Or is that it for leopard? I'm definatly feeling very underwhelmed with leopard so far. There is not a user single feature I am excited about (but I'm excited about Xcode 3 and the new IB and Core Animation).

How primitive and crude your system is! Here, we build big circles of stones that are lined up so the sun shines through them exactly when the seasons change. Very scientific.

Bah! We've had those for years

 

[FF_productions]

But are there any new features? Or is that it for leopard? I'm definatly feeling very underwhelmed with leopard so far. There is not a user single feature I am excited about (but I'm excited about Xcode 3 and the new IB and Core Animation).


Bah! We've had those for years

Steve Jobs said there are Top Secret Features, he told us they exist but they don't want Microsoft to copy them. I don't know what the hold-up is. I guess they are going to wait until they release Leopard to tell us what these Top Secret Features are.

 

[glennyboiwpg]

I think we know exactly when leopard will be released...

Look at this link.
http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/tracks/leopard.html

The first day of the wwdc week long event is about leopard. And since thats still in spring 07, it fits. As much as I want leopard now, I think this is when it'll get released...

 

[ChrisA]

Does "long list of known issues" mean that they're letting the developers know that they know that there are still issues, or are they saying "these are the issues that we knew about and we fixed"?

Typically the way this works is you have a bug-tracking database system. Where people can report bug. Then you have some managers that go through this and try to resolve them by either (1) this bug report is a duplicate of that one, or (2) This one is a stupid user error not a bug or (3) Wow a new bug. Next they assign the bug a priority and a person or group to work on it. Developers will search the database for high priority bugs that are asigned to then or their group and they mark the bug in the database as "being worked". Later some one who works in Apple quality control will test the bug and make it as "fixed"

"known bugs means there are bugs in the database where management has decided they are real bugs and need to be fixed and they are not yet tagged by a QC person as being fixed. Until you've tried you don't know how hard this process is Many bug tracking systems have hundreds or thousands of entries in them I've actually never seen a bug list worked down to zero.

 

[ChrisA]

Steve Jobs said there are Top Secret Features, he told us they exist but they don't want Microsoft to copy them. I don't know what the hold-up is. I guess they are going to wait until they release Leopard to tell us what these Top Secret Features are.

My guess is theses feature are to suport some new hardware. Telling us the feature would give away that (maybe) there is a tablet type system in the works or a touch sensitive ACD or who knows what

The other thing we might gues is that there "Top Secret Features" are more user oriented than developer oriented. I've been guesing it has something to do with iPhone. Maybe VOIP capability some way to integrade a mac with AT&T's phone network? The June release data for ther iPhone and Leopard may be linked.

And Yes Leopard will likely not be out much before WWDC which is June 11 My guess is "Leopard in the first 11 days of June posably at Steves keynote on the 11th but not one minute later then that.

 

[CoreWeb]

I think that the bug-list is not a very good indication at how close to complete Leopard is. The majority of the bugs in Leopard may be on that list, and Apple may already know how to fix them. Or, Apple may have already fixed them:

Apple may have several different branches for Leopard, perhaps even separate ones for bug-fixing, features, and the developer preview. The builds that we are seeing are meant to give developers access to APIs so that they can try out new features. These builds do not necessarily have all that much in common with the actual new features which may be being added in Leopard.

For instance, a new Finder does not require developers to see it; what features in it will they need to see, unless they need to design plug-ins for it? In fact, the only plug-ins which they may need to make for a new Finder are plug-ins for QuickView, which of course they can already make for Spotlight and the current finder!

A new UI is basically just a theme change, and thus would require very little if any advanced developer notice. The programs should theoretically "just work" with the new theme.

Any other "secret features" may be along the same lines - features that don't do anything to help developers, but which really make users happy.

In fact, the features that Apple has demonstrated so far are probably not supposed to be Leopard's killer-features; it is not a good idea to announce the best features nine-to-twelve months ahead of when the user will see them. To give away all the features before then would be idiotic. (I hope Apple is not idiotic.) The real question is, can we think of any killer features we would like? What might Apple be implementing?

What we saw in WWDC06 was probably to hold us over until details on Leopard are actually released (unleashed?). I think Apple is probably doing the same thing with the iPhone, at least in software, and perhaps in hardware (they may implement 3G and/or allow for widget development for the iPhone through Dashcode, etc, which would by leaps and bounds extend the iPhone's already very useful usefulness).

I do not think Apple is holding back features because of Microsoft - more likely, they are holding them back for the marketing sense of doing so. Naming the features closer to the product's release will generate more hype.

Hopefully, I'm right!

 

[maverick808]

To be honest, I'm worried about Leopard. 4 months before Tiger was released the seeds we were getting were pretty stable, feature-complete, and could easily be used as your main OS.

We're now, at most, 4 months before Leopard is due and apparently the seeds are completely unstable and definitely not feature complete. I'm sure most ADC members will agree if they install the latest seed and try to use the Preview app, the quicklook feature... in fact, almost every app and every part of the system still has bugs pretty severe bugs. Furthermore, we've not even SEEN any of the 10 top secret features yet. Even if these are separate apps as some people think, they should still be in the seeds so as they can be properly bug-tested by a large number of users.

 

[Cult Follower]

These 'Top Secret' features must be released soon if they are going to be ready in time for the release.

 

[DMann]

Core Animation

So still nothing we can gain from this build about the 'top secret' features, right? Or is it too early to tell...

That long list still makes it sound like Leopard is a fair ways away .

-=|Mgkwho

The "Top Secret" features will likely be held out until the last moment before release, and are likely features which employ Core Animation and Resolution Independence. Apple is the sole developer for FCP, Logic 8, iLife, etc. and has designed these apps to utilize these features. Other developers will be let into the loop once Leopard is released, in order to maintain the "Top Secret" enigma. The remaining issues are minor, and will likely be ironed out in time for a late March to mid-April release, in time for NAB.

 

[iJawn108]

I think safari 3 is not too far away.

 

[DMann]

Leopard Development

I think that the bug-list is not a very good indication at how close to complete Leopard is. The majority of the bugs in Leopard may be on that list, and Apple may already know how to fix them. Or, Apple may have already fixed them:

Apple may have several different branches for Leopard, perhaps even separate ones for bug-fixing, features, and the developer preview. The builds that we are seeing are meant to give developers access to APIs so that they can try out new features. These builds do not necessarily have all that much in common with the actual new features which may be being added in Leopard.

For instance, a new Finder does not require developers to see it; what features in it will they need to see, unless they need to design plug-ins for it? In fact, the only plug-ins which they may need to make for a new Finder are plug-ins for QuickView, which of course they can already make for Spotlight and the current finder!

A new UI is basically just a theme change, and thus would require very little if any advanced developer notice. The programs should theoretically "just work" with the new theme.

Any other "secret features" may be along the same lines - features that don't do anything to help developers, but which really make users happy.

In fact, the features that Apple has demonstrated so far are probably not supposed to be Leopard's killer-features; it is not a good idea to announce the best features nine-to-twelve months ahead of when the user will see them. To give away all the features before then would be idiotic. (I hope Apple is not idiotic.) The real question is, can we think of any killer features we would like? What might Apple be implementing?

What we saw in WWDC06 was probably to hold us over until details on Leopard are actually released (unleashed?). I think Apple is probably doing the same thing with the iPhone, at least in software, and perhaps in hardware (they may implement 3G and/or allow for widget development for the iPhone through Dashcode, etc, which would by leaps and bounds extend the iPhone's already very useful usefulness).

I do not think Apple is holding back features because of Microsoft - more likely, they are holding them back for the marketing sense of doing so. Naming the features closer to the product's release will generate more hype.

Hopefully, I'm right!

I believe you are, CoreWeb. The Finder UI will very likely be highly dependent on Core Animation and utilize Resolution Independence with its view options, and all of this can, and likely will be, held back until release. I believe you're also correct about the iPhone, in that it'll introduce unexpected features when it is released, elevating the WOW factor to a higher level, and making it an even more enticing buy....