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pc's only do well when comparing singles to singles,

personally my home brew cant be beat by anyone for it's value, but most people dont fair so well

heres the breakdown of my pc

case £20
450w psu free from a friend
pair of 256MB sticks of ram £20
cpu 3200+ £100
graphics card 8500 £15
motherboard refurb gigabyte board £45
CD-RW and dvd-ron nabbed from school for free
40GB HD and 120GB HD's nabbed from school
keyboard and mouse nabbed from school
moniter 17" CRT nabbed from school

the cpu is overclocked to 2.8GHz

so thats £200, powermacs cant be beat as a workstation but a geeks x86 Mac OS X hackintosh they are very cheap
 
unfaded said:
Uh, guys... how could make a disk image of a DVD that doesn't exist?
I believe they're talking about making a disk image of the hard drive.

Hector: that's a lot of nabbing. They must really like you to give you all that stuff. :)
 
@ unfaded

it's feasible to think that they did include a reinstall disk, in case something goes wrong. There must be a good amount of bugs in it right now, and what happens if they need to do a complete reinstall?


There must be discs for it
 
unfaded said:
Uh, guys... how could make a disk image of a DVD that doesn't exist?

Intel for OS X comes on the machines, and I severely doubt they included drivers for anything but those machines.


easy make an image of what was installed on the hard drive and distribute that.

PM me if you actually have it

Rod Rod said:
I believe they're talking about making a disk image of the hard drive.

Hector: that's a lot of nabbing. They must really like you to give you all that stuff. :)


yeah, the privileges of being a cisco student, i even got a legit copy of 2k and XP.
 
sushi said:
T1, that's so '90s! :eek: :D

I am so lucky to be in Japan were we have very fast ADSL (up to 45Mbps) and FTTH (100Mbps) options. :p ;)

Sushi

im so lucky to be in England where i can *just* get 512kbps because nothing exists outside of London!
 
raggedjimmi said:
im so lucky to be in England where i can *just* get 512kbps because nothing exists outside of London!

i guess it's of no comfort to you that i have 8Mbit and i live in london :-]
 
There is a post somewhere about pirating could be good for Apple.
What if Apple is not "surprised" by OS X for Intel "getting out there".
But at the end of 2006, when the transition boxes need to come back, the version stops functioning or is crippled but bait any way.
 
PSA

Public Service Announcement to any and all out there who might me grabbing the BitTorrent titled "macosxintel.exe" I stopped my torrent dl after about 13mb of the 640mb total an ran a virus scan on it (in a Virtual PC XP session),
see for your self:

osxintelvirus.jpg


(for you non-windows user, that's the report window of the "AVG Free" virus scanner.)
 
You should have known not to download that.....why would an OS be a .exe. Well maybe you didn't know...man Windows is RISKY!
 
I guess that I am sort of confused about stuff. In order for amd to be able to run windows or any of that crap it must be fully compatable with intels architecture even if it does have additional bells an whistles. To my understanding apple would prohibit just any dell from having os x by having some sort of hardware lock, like a particular bios. It seems like the systems going out by apple to the developers have stock everything just like the developers who were working on the x86 version of os x the whole time. It doesn't make sense that they would limit themselves to hardware in cupertino because it wasn't public. Basically if apple wanted to and the driver support was there tiger should be able to run on any pc you want. It obviously won't but the question is whether apple has implimented that or not yet.
 
I didnt find a seed, nor do I want to.

I did however found this video of Mac OS X for Intel running on a laptop, not sure if its the same video on page 1 of this thread, it just didnt load, something regarding bandwidth; I dont speak spanish.

http://www.ourmedia.org/

Its in a very dark room. I for one am going to purchase a real Mac not trying to make a clone of one myself.
 
OSX intel.

OSX is cross platform by design. This is because it's basically a version of NeXTStep, which supported 68k, PPC, x86, and PA-Risc simultanously. In practice (shipped retail versions) it's been PPC only except for what has existed in a secret Apple lab. BTW, since I know how NeXTStep did cross-platform, I'd have spotted a dual architecture version of OSX in a heartbeat. I have friends who'd find it faster than that.

For an OS install disc to boot on a platform, (x86 is an ISA which makes up part of what a platform is) the installer disc must have some very platform specific code. A bootstrap, which is the OS loader, will be entirely different for nearly every platform even if they use the same CPU. Further, it takes more than recompiling to make a bootloader work on multiple platforms, since each platform expects different things from a bootstrap. This is one reason why OSX will not install on an IBM RS6000 (PPC). This is the first thing that is required to support a platform. This is basically BIOS dependant.

The second major thing is drivers. Some of which can be generic. Example, DOS used the generic MCDEX.exe driver for most cdroms. This is because most of them use the same commands. The same is true for hard drives. A standard IDE HD driver will take care of nearly every hard drive in existance. Some features may not be available, however the drive will still work. Also while many pieces of hardware require a specific driver, ethernet cards for instance, many cards can use the same driver (NE2000). This is because they use the same controller (processor), as well as other componenents.

The third major requirement is that the libraries (DLLs, .so files, etc) have been ported to the platform (this part is mostly CPU specific). This has to be done before the main part of the OS and included programs can be generated as executable (compiled). This can be very time consuming and obnoxious. In many cases however, as with the standard C and C++ libraries, they've already been ported to nearly every architecture under the sun. This would leave, in Apple's case, keeping the Objective C frameworks/libraries up to date on the target platform. Apple would only need to keep them up to date instead of porting them, because before NeXTSTep became OSX, the newest version of the libraries had to be ported to PPC from x86!

Another major requirement is that the kernel or basic OS can be booted on the hardware in question. This requires that the kernel is compiled for the CPU, and that it has the basic drivers it needs to load (IDE/SCSI, etc).

Lastly, third party application code would have to be written using good programming practices which generally removes any nasty gotchas when porting to another architecture. The only change most Cocoa programmers have had to make is dealing with the endian-ness issue, which is amazingly simple. Even knowing the little amount of C++ I know, I thought that the endian fix was ridiculously simple. The author of Delicious Library said that it took 40 seconds to recompile it, since it didn't need any changes at all!

note: generic C++ command line apps can be compiled for different architectures with few changes if any. I'm working on a program to generate Towns for a RPG I play. Compiles and runs perfectly on OSX, Linux x86/PPC, and DOS/Windows. I may pull out the Sparc and the SGI at some point and compile for IRIX and Solaris as well. It requires no changes between architectures. This will change when I add the GUI.

--- end architectures, porting, and OSes 101 ---
 
Installing on non-dev machines

With the last post out of the way, and hopefully clearing up what it takes to make something cross-platform, I'll put my take on the OSX on non-developer machines.

It's very very unlikely that Apple has this version of OSX locked to the specific machines. Their lack of documentation, and Intel's not shipping LaGrande yet, speak volumes. Add to this, the fact that IBM did not know about the Intel switch until the Friday before the Keynote. This decision was not set in stone long enough ago to have locked the machines down. If it were the case I'd be amazed.

The hardware that Intel sells is generally very well documented. BuildYourOwnMac.com and other sites have some information about what is actually shipping in the developer machines. The likelyhood is that if you duplicated the contents of the hard drive you could transfer that to another machine's (same hardware) and boot it. There is almost certainly nothing special about the motherboard, since that would be expensive to create.

I find it very likely that the copies of the OS installed on the machines are watermarked or otherwise marked to track it. However there's this utility called diff...... Would take care of that given that you had copies of the contents of drives from different machines. It also might require them being for different developers too. It should be noted that this is a very common utility that every developer worth a damn is aware of. My stating it's existance doesn't tell anyone (who'd have one of the dev boxes) anything they don't already know. It's possible that it would still be quite difficult to remove the watermark/tracking info, provided that Apple did a good job of embedding it in.

Any developer has to know that they're risking their home (literally, since legal bills and fines can go really high) in putting this on a file sharing network.

That being said, I still think it'll hit the file trading networks. Once it hits the net, pretty much any machine containing the same motherboard should work fine. There should be no issues with hard drive drivers (what a stupid concept), and probably not CDROM drivers (I'll have to start plugging cdrom/cdr drives into my G4 tower to see what happens, tho I'm sure that they won't be bootable). BTW I have a laptop drive, an IDE drive from an electronics store and two decommissioned Ultra160 SCSI drives in the machine, no special drivers... The Adaptec SCSI card on the other hand is the Mac version. Also Dlink network cards should work without additional drivers (my second network card). A video card in another mac I have is a reflashed PCI card from a PC...

I think that people will buy motherboards (Probably Intel 915x or 925x based) to run the Intel Developer version of OSX. They'll be shocked when no updates for the OS or software are available, and really shocked when the actual Intel based Macs come out, with a version of the OS that won't install on their machines.

If the previous comes to pass, my next prediction is that suddenly the number of 915/925 motherboards, and machines based on the same, for sale on eBay will rise ever so slightly.

At some point in the future, people will figure out a way around the "Mac only" restrictions in the OS and allow it to boot on a beige box PC. The issue will be that the hack will require end users to go to obnoxious lengths to make it work, and even then it'll probably be twitchy (updates won't install, etc).

While I am very very curious about running the dev copy on a PC, I won't build one for that purpose. I also probably won't run OSX on a non-Apple Intel machine for that matter. The lack of having to have a separate system as a Wintendo, will easily allow me to afford a much nicer Mac. And no, steam sucks bigtime, so it's not for half life, please don't bother porting it to OSX. The main thing is that I cannot afford a Mac that's fast enough to run the A-list games at any decent speed. I do buy Mac games that will run on my tower tho.
 
So I downloaded the file anyway... What's the worse that can happen right? Well the disc is indeed bootable and shows the picture of a guy's rectum... Bon appétit!
 
ITASOR said:
You should have known not to download that.....why would an OS be a .exe. Well maybe you didn't know...man Windows is RISKY!
Um, I did know better - that's why I stopped the torrent dl and ran it through the virus scanner. :rolleyes: I presumed it would be a trojan from the moment I saw it.

It's a self extracting archive - that's why it's an .exe (notice that the virus was found inside the archive in the setup.exe file)
 
MagnusDredd said:
A bootstrap, which is the OS loader, will be entirely different for nearly every platform even if they use the same CPU.
(Edited quote)

I thought bootstrap was a pirate, lol. :D ;)

Thanks for both posts MagnusDredd, it hurt my brain, and now I gotta scratch it and get some sleep to digest it.
 
Applespider said:
Not true. My sister is in Scotland, in a small town between Edinburgh and Glasgow and she's on 2Mbps. I'm in London and have the slowest link in our family... until my upgrade comes through. ;)
since when did scotland become a part of england? i know a lot of scots who'd be offended by that statement
 
lucas said:
since when did scotland become a part of england? i know a lot of scots who'd be offended by that statement

Eeesh, stop being a pedant. I was replying to the being available outside London rather than suggesting Scotland was part of England. As a Scot, I'm very aware it's not. I just didn't feel correcting raggedjimmi that there were other UK nations outwith London.
 
MBHockey said:
Also...Steve has already said they will not license OS X for non-Mac hardware, so the last part of your post is simply incorrect.
Steve also said that they were not switching to Intell procs.
I wouldn't take his word as gospel truth on this issue.
 
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