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Other dock bugs I hope they fixed...

Of course I'll like up with the faithful to buy it, but I do hope they fixed some of the many small bugs in OSX while they were in the code, like if you have your dock on the left and don't auto hide, new windows opened don't take into account the dock so that the close and minimize buttons are now under the dock and you can't get to them without moving the window or using a shortcut. Not a show stopper, but annoying anyway. I have a 4 page list of bugs (some serious like copying too many files to the desktop fatally crashes finder) that I'll regression test with the new OS and report through the bug reporter if they are still there...
 
Why not?

... but is it supposed to let you slide your apps underneath the dock like that?

I can't do that when the dock is at the bottom of the screen...

What OS are you using? I just moved my dock to the bottom of the sceen (in 10.4.10). The window that was now behind the dock resized so that it wouldn't be under the dock, however I can still move any window so that it is behind the dock.
 
What OS are you using? I just moved my dock to the bottom of the sceen (in 10.4.10). The window that was now behind the dock resized so that it wouldn't be under the dock, however I can still move any window so that it is behind the dock.

Well... Safari and mail will NOT go behind the dock no matter ho hard you try.
 
What OS are you using? I just moved my dock to the bottom of the sceen (in 10.4.10). The window that was now behind the dock resized so that it wouldn't be under the dock, however I can still move any window so that it is behind the dock.

You can also set the dock to automatically hide and when you put the mouse over it, the dock appears over any open windows near where you have it and the windows don't move.
 
Well... Safari and mail will NOT go behind the dock no matter ho hard you try.

Mail does :confused:

*checks* and actually so does Safari.

Unless you mean by resizing in which case no they don't but neither do any other programs I can think of.

Snapshot2007-10-2402-32-50.jpg
 
Mail does :confused:

*checks* and actually so does Safari.

Unless you mean by resizing in which case no they don't but neither do any other programs I can think of.

Snapshot2007-10-2402-32-50.jpg

Yes and no. You can resize iTunes to go behind the dock but not Safari. But I do stand corrected as if you hide the dock and resize Safari and then unhide dock Safari is behind the dock.:eek: Never knew that all these years. Oh Well.
 
Well... Safari and mail will NOT go behind the dock no matter ho hard you try.

Wasn't that hard.

Edit: Damn, would've posted it first if I didn't have such an extremely horrible ISP. Don't ever, ever think about touching HughesNet. Dial-Up is much better and a tenth of the price.
 

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Joke, right? The majority of users probably don't even know what's coming in Leopard, let alone the exact appearance of the dock. And if they didn't, they wouldn't care.

Majority of users who keep the dock on the bottom and don't want it 3d. Not majority of users. This change was made because of user complaints, many of whom wanted an option for the bottom. Try reading before you knock someone's post.
 
+ Proper graphics cards in MBP/MP
+ Updated Apple TV w. 5.1 surround sound etc.
+ Ultraportable Laptop
+ Sir Ian McKellan on the board of directors
+ Timeline in iMovie '08
+ Free dotmac
+ Better dotmac

We could go on for hours ;) Good to know Apple are at least listening, though.

I love the dock now from all...err...angles, by the way.


I got one. How about real speakers in the MBP? Forget about trying to hear ANYTHING in a crowded room. The speakers in the MBP are the most pathetic in the industry IMHO and boil down to Jobs's borderline fetish for 1" thick. And please people. Don't tell me to carry speakers. What is the point of a 1" laptop if I need to carry a 4"x8"x4" speaker set with me.

PS- Amen to better .Mac. I like Photo Galleries however WTF is up with not being able to put a description alongside the photo? Or better yet for photos mailed in being able to give credit for the originator. Virtually no thought was put into it beyond simply how pretty they can make the GUI and how close it can be tied to iPhoto; which while important isn't the only thing they should have focused on.

Majority of users who keep the dock on the bottom and don't want it 3d. Not majority of users. This change was made because of user complaints, many of whom wanted an option for the bottom. Try reading before you knock someone's post.

:rolleyes: Only the anal retentive give a crap about a "flourish". Or, for that other person who was freaking out, scroll bar colors for that matter. Neither of those things impedes the use of the OS. There are potentially other bigger issues
 
Joke, right? The majority of users probably don't even know what's coming in Leopard, let alone the exact appearance of the dock. And if they didn't, they wouldn't care.

Majority of users who keep the dock on the bottom and don't want it 3d. Not majority of users. This change was made because of user complaints, many of whom wanted an option for the bottom as well. Try actually reading before you knock someone's post.

Also, your statement is bunk. What data do you have that suggests most users buying Leopard aren't knowledgeable about it or don't care about the appearance of their OS?
 
Amazon is bundling it with iLife '08, which is included with Leopard

Amazon is bundling it with iLife '08, which is included with Leopard.

Check out the Amazon page for Leopard. They offer a discounted bundle with 10.5 and iLife '08. Leopard comes with iLife. I tried to digg the Amazon page, but it didn't work. Somebody blog it and then digg it. Don't want some pore unsuspecting people to buy both!
 
Quicksilver, press 4 or 5 keys, application is launching. Time taken, about 0.5 seconds.

Dock, take hand off keyboard, move to mouse, locate item in dock, click it, move hand back to keyboard. Time taken 2 seconds.
That's 4 times faster. :D

For the record, I use Quicksilver and have a unwieldy dock filled with 20 apps/ folders (recently converted to the left side). QS is perhaps faster when both hands are on the keyboard ... but if god prohibit I'm already USING THE MOUSE than it's faster using the dock !

QS advocates tend to stink of lintardism. QS is a fantastic program (when it's not acting all slow...) but it's designed by nerds, built for nerds, and QS evangelists need to understand that. For novices I think LaunchBar (unfortunately not free) is a better choice.

As for the dock, me thinks Apple will simply present the different looks as preference options for the dock ... sooner or later.
 
It's weird how the people that say the scroll bars and buttons don't need to change are also the people that say Apple is the master of consistent UI design. Windows is pretty much just as consistent as Mac OS' UI..
 
Amazon is bundling it with iLife '08, which is included with Leopard.

Check out the Amazon page for Leopard. They offer a discounted bundle with 10.5 and iLife '08. Leopard comes with iLife. I tried to digg the Amazon page, but it didn't work. Somebody blog it and then digg it. Don't want some pore unsuspecting people to buy both!

iLife doesn't come with Leopard. :rolleyes:
 
This last minute change is so dumb I am finding it very hard to believe Apple actually did it.

In the first place, there was nothing "wrong" with the perspective of the dock on the side because there is no accurate or sensible 3D perspective in the entire system. It's primarily isometric. At the very least, the perspective dock on the side has exactly the same amount of 3-D "realism" as it does on the bottom. If one argues that it's wrong on the side, one must also argue that it's wrong on the bottom. The entire GUi is "wrong" in this way in that light. There are no "lights" that create the drop shadows, no "proper" perspective anywhere, and as others pointed out previously, by the same logic all the icons should fall into a pile at the bottom of your screen.
In it's own way, this paragraph is like the 3d side dock: lacking internal logic, self-contradictory, confused. "One" doesn't have to argue it's wrong on the bottom if it's wrong on the side - they're two different perspectives. The bottom is a shelf with icons poised sturdily on top of it, waiting for you to caress them with your mousey and spring to life. By comparison, the 3d side docks lost all meaningful perspective in the translation. Instead of icons sitting on a bottom shelf, the side shelf became a window flap pushed open, with mysteriously floating icons severed from any direct relationship with the flap that so valiantly supported them on the bottom. Untethered and scatter-brained, the side icons threaten to collapse into a big oogy mess and spill sebaceous bromides all over your keyboard. The icons on the 3d bottom, however, are supported, confident, and ready to do battle.

Secondly, all this has done is introduce an interface inconsistency. That's just plain stupid.
Yes, now it's inconsistent. However, they obviously debated the pros and cons and decided that maintaining consistency at the expense of a nonsensical assault on the third dimension wasn't worth it. The choice was between consistency for its own sake vs. a more elegant and sensible design that doesn't make their users get nauseous, throw up, and create 400 post threads on the interwebs complaining about it.

The only way around it is to let people choose between the two looks regardless of where their dock is.
No, there are many ways around it.

A good designer designs something based on strong heuristics or design principles, not on how many people whine the loudest about what.
No, a good designer designs good stuff rather than quotes pompous rules from a design 101 text book. Furthermore, there's no evidence that whining had anything to do with this change, although if it did, so much the better.
Anyone who has actually designed something can tell you that it has nothing to do with just taking a list of "wants" from the users and trying to implement as many as possible. We all know there are going to be a dozen shareware dock modifiers a week after Leopard is out anyway. Apple should have let those people define the "alternative" dock looks IMO.

What makes you think this is still not the case? Apple is only offering what they believe is the best current design by default. You're still free to tart it up to your heart's content. Incidentally, I believe this 11th hour change is a stopgap measure until Apple can implement a 3d side dock that is elegant rather than flawed. However, the 2d stopgap is better than the 3d fiasco.
Finally, when you start to cave into whiners and complainers you open up a Pandora's box of trouble as can be seen on this very thread. Not two seconds after it's done, you already have people wanting even more. Already there are posts whining about how they want the same look on the bottom, and what about those like myself (and others on this thread), that actually like the dock on the side and want the 3-D effect?
Most of the posts are praising a decision that reflects early user feedback. On the other hand, you are whining like a big fat whinoceros, and in that I agree that it's a Pandora's box to cave into your sort of whining.
If it turns out that this is just an option for either the side or the top, then IMO it's a bit shameful of Apple to do it, but understandable. If however, as this article suggest, this look is only for the dock when it is on the side and cannot be changed, then it's the lamest, dumbest GUI decision I have heard of in a long time.
Then it is a good thing you likely do not have much experience with GUIs. The number of truly lame, dumb GUI decisions on competing products might be too much for your constitution to withstand, given your reaction to this relatively trivial but otherwise sensible revision.
 
I'd always assumed Apple got the radio button idea from the antique light switch where you had two buttons for on and off, each of which toggled the other when pressed. Google isn't turning up an image of one in the faceplate, but here's the actual switch itself.

215YEAC75KL._AA160_.jpg

I have a switch like this to control the light in my hall way... all I have to do is press whichever one is up and the light goes on or off depending on the current condition of the light. Nice!
 
The Dock just plain looks out of place. Nothing else in Mac OS X has perspective like the Dock does. You're viewing a FLAT screen and FLAT windows (with drop shadows that don't make sense too) and you expect me to believe that my Dock is 3D? If the Dock is 3D, then why didn't they make the crosswalk image in 3D too... it shouldn't have a perspective like that if it's coming off the right side of the Dock, it should be slanted slightly to the left to look like it's actually drawn on the Dock. Also, reflections don't look right and neither do those new fancy folders where they fan backward in a fake 3D way that doesn't match the Dock perspective again.

Also, drop shadows. I think that if drop shadows were to really work, the windows would have to get smaller or bigger depending on which 3D plane they are on... that way they could show being closer or further away from you but, instead, only the shadow gets deeper or shallower... The scroll bars haven't changed appearance since 10.0 and neither have the progress bars and that's kind of upsetting (even though virtually every other UI element got a facelift). Are the scroll bars too hard to fix or are people just so used to them that they look perfect. Ever since I got Aqua Extreme by Max Rudberg, I've been hooked on his scroll bars and I haven't changed since. I hope we can theme Leopard.
 
I for one am glad to see changes were made to the dock even though I dont use it on the side personally I still prefer that there be the option to turn off the 3d effect as it looks somewhat gimmicky and distracting.
 
It's a shame they couldn't fix the issue of the dock on the side and instead just went a different route, however I do like the look, it's quite simple, and seeing as that's where my dock will be, I'm not complaining.

Perhaps in a later incremental update they'll fix the reflections issue and update the docks on the side, further irritating some users.

Can't wait to get it and try it out however though.
 
As a Mac convert I can't believe people got this worked up over a purely aesthetic issue. And I can assure you the other millions of people coming over to the platform really don't care about it, either. This is going to get real interesting for the graphic design folks when they're no longer the predominant users of the platform. Changes in future revisions of the OS may be based on *gasp* functionality instead of aesthetics!
 
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