Mac OS X Lion: Drops PowerPC Emulation, Adds QuickTime Pro Features, Much More

[HONDAxACURA]

I think Apple gave sufficient time for people to move away from PPC. Apple needs to keep on leading. Go Apple!

So far, I'm liking this 10.7 Release.

 

[Stiksi]

And to you: Development of software that took advantage of Snow Leopard features was significantly delayed (and sometimes hasn't happened yet) because many computers couldn't upgrade to Snow Leopard. If a significant number of my customers cannot upgrade to Lion, then the software that I write will not be updated. Simple as that. Leopard will be Apple's Windows XP.

Exactly how I see this going.

 

[peg dash fab]

By upgrading from five year-old software?

to what? quicken 2007 ➔ quicken essentials is a downgrade. (i am another 10+ year quicken junkie.)

i'm thinking i will run quicken for windows in a Windows 7 VM. (a familiar kludge which i use for duplex printing on my HP 932c.)

anyone know how quicken for windows compares to quicken for mac?

 

[Erwin-Br]

And HP's failure to update their drivers is Apple's fault.... how?

It's a shared responsibility. You know what the number one reason is why Vista was blasted by consumers? Lack of driver support! Same reason why Windows XP 64-bit never took off. Without proper driver support your OS is worthless, because nobody's going to throw away good working equipment that's barely 3 years old.

Besides, we're talking about an emulator here! There's no reason why an emulator shouldn't or couldn't run on a newer OS, because it should be an independent piece of software.

 

[shervieux]

No POWERPC support?

As long as apps that are Universal are still supported; Universal makes up 90% of my apps - very few are actually Intel.

Looks like I have to upgrade Logo Design Studio, my HP printer drivers, and MS 0ffice 2008? Really MS Office 2008 still had PowerPC components? Also 3/4 of my apps are not 64 bit. They are still only 32 bit - so if they require 64 bit only; then I am not going to be able to upgrade.

 

[Erwin-Br]

Tried VueScan? http://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/hp_scanjet_4600.html

Yeah, I did before I switched to Snow Leopard. I was afraid my scanner wouldn't work in SL. Anyway, unfortunately VueScan does not support my scanner either.

The stupid thing is that it *is* listed on VueScan's website, but when you go to the details it says that it needs the original HP driver installed. Pfffft, yeah, that way I can also say I support 1600 scanners. 🙄

 

[firewood]

Wrong, Classic emulates OS 9, which is a PPC-only OS.

And Mac OS 9 for PPC Macs includes a 68k emulator. Q.E.D. PowerPC Macs supported running 68k Mac apps for over a decade (approx. 1994 to 2005).

Although I'm not happy that Apple is dropping support for PPC software, if you need to run old software, run it on an old Mac. Problem solved.

It is not trivial to keep older Macs running. The capacitors dry out, and the hard drives freeze up. Plus some of them clutter up over 100X more space than my MacBook Air 11.

 

[KPOM]

Looks like I have to find another application to replace Quicken 2007, with all the same functionality (investments, scheduled transactions, tax exporting, etc.)

Alternatively, download a free copy of Virtual Box and just load 10.6 in a virtual machine. Pretend you are back in the Classic days.

 

[KPOM]

As long as apps that are Universal are still supported; Universal makes up 90% of my apps - very few are actually Intel.

Looks like I have to upgrade Logo Design Studio, my HP printer drivers, and MS 0ffice 2008? Really MS Office 2008 still had PowerPC components? Also 3/4 of my apps are not 64 bit. They are still only 32 bit - so if they require 64 bit only; then I am not going to be able to upgrade.

Universal apps run Intel code. They have dual binaries (PowerPC and Intel). Intel code is Intel only. Rosetta runs programs that are listed as PowerPC (not Universal).

Anyway, if you do need to run a Rosetta application, there is the possibility of running OS X 10.6 in a virtual machine. I suspect that Parallels, VMWare, and Sun (VirtualBox) may see a small spike in activity upon Lion's release if people find out they have some old PowerPC applications. Hopefully the Lion installation routine will search for PowerPC applications and also see if there are updates available. In many cases, some old drivers or scanning/printing/camera software may be PowerPC.

As to the larger issue, consider that 64-bit Windows drops support for Win16 code (which many programs as late as the Win95/Win98 era still used, at least partially). The rumor is that Windows 8 will be 64-bit only, just like Lion.

 

[ozred]

There are certain things that need to be done for professionals that require Quicktime Pro.

I agree completely.

Yet that said, times are changing. It's time for the pros to get into acceptance that Apples priorities have shifted dramatically.

While they're talking a good game to keep peace amongst it's varied customers, the facts are it's Apple Consumer Electronics now.

The performance of the stock, the amazing sales volume of phones, iPads etc, are the revenue generators that allow Apple & Jobs to maintain the high profile & huge profits they seek.

No longer are computers their main focus. As time marches on Apple is rapidly turning products into disposable sealed appliances.

Why innovate in the truest sense, when they have the receipt for maximum profits perfected.

Apple is the new "Maytag".

 

[jackeill]

Expose + spaces + dashboard

Is there classical Expose, or only Mission Control? Sometimes the clutter, that Mission Control provides, is not needed when I want to switch just the windows...

Is there classical Spaces switching available?

What about Dashboard? I liked it as an overlay in whatever desktop I was. No chance of that? If Dashboard is to the left from the first desktop, navigating there from the desktop 6 will be pain in the ass... (even through Mission Control it needs additional cliks/actions...)

So, please tell me that Mission Control is just the addition, not the replacement!

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Universal apps run Intel code. They have dual binaries (PowerPC and Intel). Intel code is Intel only. Rosetta runs programs that are listed as PowerPC (not Universal).

Anyway, if you do need to run a Rosetta application, there is the possibility of running OS X 10.6 in a virtual machine. I suspect that Parallels, VMWare, and Sun (VirtualBox) may see a small spike in activity upon Lion's release if people find out they have some old PowerPC applications. Hopefully the Lion installation routine will search for PowerPC applications and also see if there are updates available. In many cases, some old drivers or scanning/printing/camera software may be PowerPC.

As to the larger issue, consider that 64-bit Windows drops support for Win16 code (which many programs as late as the Win95/Win98 era still used, at least partially). The rumor is that Windows 8 will be 64-bit only, just like Lion.

Windows 8 being 64 bit only means the kernal will only be 64 bit. But it will still fully support 32 bit programs.
The 64 bit versions of windows dropped support for 16 bit programs and given at that point 16 bit programs had not been made for well over 15 years it was not a big deal.

 

[lifeinhd]

I can't believe it! They're _still_ not adding back support for my //e! It still runs perfectly well, there's no reason it shouldn't be supported!

But seriously, though, I use a number of PPC apps. Let's list them!

Dreamweaver MX 2004, some scanner software for my (fairly new) printer, Final Cut Pro, Fireworks MX 2004, Flash (though I might be due for an upgrade), FreeHand MX, MacTheRipper, all of Office 2004 (I _hate_ 2008 and 2011 with a passion, the ribbon sucks), some OCR software, Opera (though there might be an update out, I don't use it too often), PhotoStudio (I hate using GIMP under X11), a ringtone converter for my Android phone, and Roller Coaster Tycoon 3.

No chance I can give up any of these-- with the exception of RCT3 and MacTheRipper, I still use all of them regularly. I wonder if Rosetta can be transferred to a new Mac running Lion?

 

[M-3]

Jkl

They seriously need to bring back the JKL key functionality to QuickTime Player. If you know what I mean, you're probably as adamant as I am on this.

 

[KnightWRX]

You can turn the lights back (open application indicator) on in the dock (screenshot)

Best news about Lion I've heard up until now. I wonder if I'm going to get an apology from all the people who argued till red in the face against me that this feature shouldn't be optional at all.

 

[maokh]

I am embarrassed to say that I do have several rosetta apps -- quite a bit of educational software for kids, serial terminal software, etc.

As far as I know, there are no native serial terminal programs. I am currently using ZTerm (PowerPC) to configure cisco routers, switches, etc. And Please do not say minicom..

I guess network engineers can't have macs anymore with Lion.

 

[gramirez2012]

It is not trivial to keep older Macs running. The capacitors dry out, and the hard drives freeze up. Plus some of them clutter up over 100X more space than my MacBook Air 11.

That's a problem with 15-20 year old computers. An Intel Mac running 10.4 Tiger can run apps in Classic. Bootability can be achieved with a G4 of 7-8 years old. So it's perfectly doable for anyone who needs to run old apps.

 

[lpetrich]

There are some PowerPC emulators out there, like SheepShaver and PearPC, but one would have to run a PowerPC version of OSX in them.

Something like running versions of MacOS Classic in the likes of vMac, Basilisk, and SheepShaver itself.

BTW, I've found emulators for the Apple II also, so you can see what early Apple was like.

 

[wescravn]

I am embarrassed to say that I do have several rosetta apps -- quite a bit of educational software for kids, serial terminal software, etc.

As far as I know, there are no native serial terminal programs. I am currently using ZTerm (PowerPC) to configure cisco routers, switches, etc. And Please do not say minicom..

I guess network engineers can't have macs anymore with Lion.

Please, stop complaining, and don't update. Otherwise use google (good is it that hard), and find a suitable replacement for osx program.

I don't think i'd want you being network admin for my company personally.

Rosetta is 5 year old technology....please.

 

[BornAgainMac]

Enough already!
The reason that Windows is the mess that is is precisely because of this inability to cut old stuff loose.
I am personally thrilled that once again, Apple is moving forward instead of saddling everyone with legacy baggage.
Stay with Snow Leopard, upgrade your apps, switch to Windows (with it's inability to even get past the dung heap of the Registry precisely because this reason), or go with a nice hobbiest desktop platform like Linux.
There are plenty of choices. Just don't demand that the rest of us stay stuck in the mud along with you.

Finally someone with reason. Out with the old. It is easy to just keep an ancient Mac around for compatibility reasons.

 

[MacFly123]

Lion is just awesome !!
evebody, lets take it back to the mac !

So happy to hear about the additions to QuickTime X being that I am a video producer! I knew it was just a matter of time till those things made it back in. Kind of like iMovie, they can only do so much at a time when they undertake such a huge overhaul!

I am still a bit curious about how some things will work, such as autosave in pro apps. I do NOT want that in FCS as it will ruin a pro workflow and project/file structure. In everyday stuff SURE, but not pro apps! I hope Apple realizes that. But so far it seems that while they are making things easier, they are still keeping the OS very powerful!

Lion seems like it is going to be a VERY good update! Now let's see some continuous client magic between Lion & Macs, iOS 5 & iDevices, and the new MobileMe! 😀

 

[Eric5h5]

That's a problem with 15-20 year old computers. An Intel Mac running 10.4 Tiger can run apps in Classic.

No, it can't. There never was any Classic support for any Intel Macs.

--Eric

 

[Fraaaa]

Best news about Lion I've heard up until now. I wonder if I'm going to get an apology from all the people who argued till red in the face against me that this feature shouldn't be optional at all.

I was waiting for you to read the post! 😀

Now we both will be happy.

 

[Dranix]

No Rosetta? Great. This means I can throw away a perfectly fine HP Scanner, in fact the best scanner I've ever had, which software relies on Rosetta. Very green of you, Apple. 😡

Check out VueScan http://www.hamrick.com/.

I replaced the ****** ppc-drivers of my epson-scanner with it when going to MacPro.

 

[AidenShaw]

Windows 8 being 64 bit only means the kernal will only be 64 bit. But it will still fully support 32 bit programs.
The 64 bit versions of windows dropped support for 16 bit programs and given at that point 16 bit programs had not been made for well over 15 years it was not a big deal.

And Windows7 x86 still supports 16-bit programs - so if you can deal with a 3.25 GiB limit on RAM you can still run the 16-bit stuff - or run your 16-bit in XP Mode or a {DOS, Win3.1, WinNT, Win2K, XP, Vista x86, Win7 x86} virtual machine on Windows x64.

Rosetta is 5 year old technology....please.

Finally someone with reason. Out with the old. It is easy to just keep an ancient Mac around for compatibility reasons.

Rosetta doesn't "saddle" anyone with legacy stuff - it's not part of the OS, it's an application.

But, in keeping with Apple's new penchant for greed - Rosetta is gone because it's not Apple's technology, and Apple has to pay for it. Rosetta is a version of QuickTransit, an emulator package by Transitive (now part of IBM).

In other words, Rosetta became a "bag of hurt". There's no reason beyond profit margin not to bundle it with the OS.