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Mac OS X Only Macs as of Jan 2003
- Thread starter arn
- Start date
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Again...... Apple is HAVING to force change.... otherwise the lazy ar*e software companies that can't be bothered to develop OSX software will have no incentive to get off said lazy ar*e and start trying to please people like yourself that want to change, but can't because there software products aren't compatiable with Apples de-facto OS........
Very bad move
I need to boot into 9 at least once per week to:
make VPC usable
move or delete files that X won't allow me to on my own machine
run disk repair utilities
feel like I have a mac that's not 10 years old
play any of dozens of games that only run or run far faster in 9, but not classic.
want to use a version of Office that can keep up with my slow typing
I guess my next mac won't be a new mac, but a used one that can run 9. Classic compatability is not good enough. Maybe in 3-5 years this is good. I understand Apple needs to move on to getting everyone using X, but X is not mature enough. Jaguar is an overpriced minor bug fix with bloatware. It is still far too slow.
I need to boot into 9 at least once per week to:
make VPC usable
move or delete files that X won't allow me to on my own machine
run disk repair utilities
feel like I have a mac that's not 10 years old
play any of dozens of games that only run or run far faster in 9, but not classic.
want to use a version of Office that can keep up with my slow typing
I guess my next mac won't be a new mac, but a used one that can run 9. Classic compatability is not good enough. Maybe in 3-5 years this is good. I understand Apple needs to move on to getting everyone using X, but X is not mature enough. Jaguar is an overpriced minor bug fix with bloatware. It is still far too slow.
I think this is a bad decision on Apple's part. Sure, its probably fine for 90% of the Mac users out there, but for those niche markets where the Mac has traditionally been strong (like the audio market), it is a huge blow in their face. I hope something major happens within the next couple of months to make it worth while for *everybody* to switch to OS X.
On a side note, do you guys think it'd be possible to some how hack a new 2003 Mac to boot into OS 9? just a thought.. hehe
On a side note, do you guys think it'd be possible to some how hack a new 2003 Mac to boot into OS 9? just a thought.. hehe
Why is that?
1) I explained it 10 times before.I was drunk a bat when I thought of it.
2) I DO want a new mac but not a cheesy upgrade
wich the "new" powermac is.
edesignuk
Moderator emeritus
Re: Very bad move
Is called keeping your OS stable by not letting you delete things you shouldn't be, and anyway, if you must delete certain files enable your root account and login as that when you want to be be ale to delete things as you wish and screw up your system.
skiphunt
macrumors member
Can you say upgrade card?
I'm not sure how Apple intends to force the issue... be it via new motherboards that refuse to boot into 9? Or, new revisions of OSX that won't allow an OS9 boot. But, if it's the hardware scenario, wouldn't a CPU upgrade card get around that? I'm a graphics and DV professional, and haven't had the cash to upgrade ALL of my tools and plug-ins to OSX. That is, the ones that have upgrades available. And most that I use, don't appear to work in Classic mode. So for now, and the foreseeable future I'll be living in 0S9 land, but playing in OSX land. I recently upgraded my 2000 firewire Pismo from a G3/400 to a G4/500 via Powerlogix cpu upgrade card. Works GREAT! and I figure this will not only buy my more time before I have to upgrade my hardware, it may also buy me more time in OS9 while developers get all the OSX upgrades available, etc. I was planning on buying a new desktop after the first of the year, but with this news, and because I've been so happy with the stability of my upgraded Pismo I'll probably just upgrade my G4/450 with one of the new Powerlogix dual cards. That is, as soon as I've heard enough great feedback about them as well. ;-)
skip hunt
I'm not sure how Apple intends to force the issue... be it via new motherboards that refuse to boot into 9? Or, new revisions of OSX that won't allow an OS9 boot. But, if it's the hardware scenario, wouldn't a CPU upgrade card get around that? I'm a graphics and DV professional, and haven't had the cash to upgrade ALL of my tools and plug-ins to OSX. That is, the ones that have upgrades available. And most that I use, don't appear to work in Classic mode. So for now, and the foreseeable future I'll be living in 0S9 land, but playing in OSX land. I recently upgraded my 2000 firewire Pismo from a G3/400 to a G4/500 via Powerlogix cpu upgrade card. Works GREAT! and I figure this will not only buy my more time before I have to upgrade my hardware, it may also buy me more time in OS9 while developers get all the OSX upgrades available, etc. I was planning on buying a new desktop after the first of the year, but with this news, and because I've been so happy with the stability of my upgraded Pismo I'll probably just upgrade my G4/450 with one of the new Powerlogix dual cards. That is, as soon as I've heard enough great feedback about them as well. ;-)
skip hunt
Time to say goodbye to 9?
I very much doubt that it wont be possible to make the new machines boot into 9.
Just trash X that is format the HD and install the HD drivers for 9 using an external Firewire disk containing both X and 9 and install 9 on your new machine.
Maybe you'll have to wait for some patch but that's it.
I very much doubt that it wont be possible to make the new machines boot into 9.
Just trash X that is format the HD and install the HD drivers for 9 using an external Firewire disk containing both X and 9 and install 9 on your new machine.
Maybe you'll have to wait for some patch but that's it.
Re: Re: Very bad move
Cool, just like Windoze! Yes I understand this, but sometimes there are things I also can't do when logged in as root. Oh yes, I certainly needs hundreds of drivers for modems and printers. Gee, where's that Prometheus 2400 baud modem that I absolutely MUST use with 10.2? Sorry, but on a portable with limited hard drive space, trimming the fat is the smart thing to do. Especially on my older iBook with only a 10GB drive (yes I could upgrade it but apparently I'd need to take a day off and go on anti-anxiety drugs to do it).
Cool, just like Windoze! Yes I understand this, but sometimes there are things I also can't do when logged in as root. Oh yes, I certainly needs hundreds of drivers for modems and printers. Gee, where's that Prometheus 2400 baud modem that I absolutely MUST use with 10.2? Sorry, but on a portable with limited hard drive space, trimming the fat is the smart thing to do. Especially on my older iBook with only a 10GB drive (yes I could upgrade it but apparently I'd need to take a day off and go on anti-anxiety drugs to do it).
how will they do this...
the previous post brings up a point no one seems to really be talking about. how will they force the issue. will it be with new hardware (faster cpu included!)? or will it just be some fireware or software upgrade thing that simply can't be booted with os9?
is apple really pre-announcing that they will have new hardware for mwsf or are they just saying that all new macs that they ship after january, that have almost the same hardware config as now, will simply not have the ability to boot into os9?...or does it mean that whatever hardware they update at mwsf (powerbooks and ibooks?) will not boot into os9 and the new powermacs, whenever they are announced, will follow suit?
i could have said the above better but you know what i mean...
the previous post brings up a point no one seems to really be talking about. how will they force the issue. will it be with new hardware (faster cpu included!)? or will it just be some fireware or software upgrade thing that simply can't be booted with os9?
is apple really pre-announcing that they will have new hardware for mwsf or are they just saying that all new macs that they ship after january, that have almost the same hardware config as now, will simply not have the ability to boot into os9?...or does it mean that whatever hardware they update at mwsf (powerbooks and ibooks?) will not boot into os9 and the new powermacs, whenever they are announced, will follow suit?
i could have said the above better but you know what i mean...
skiphunt
macrumors member
contrare..
I remember attempting to install an OS8 or 9 disk that had come with a G3 Powerbook, but wanted to install on a G3 desktop. Wouldn't install. I then tried intalling onto an external, but with a PB startup, then tried to start off the new install with the desktop...... still didn't work. At some point, it appears Apple was shipping software that was machine specific. So, it appears it IS quite possible. I wonder if the Powerlogix upgrade cards, and those of their brethren, would be a viable alternative to get around this OS9 shut-out? With the new life the Powerlogix cpu upgrade card gave my beloved Pismo, I'm certainly gonna give it a try. I've got to stay in 0S9 a bit longer, but I truly am looking forward to the day I can just use one OS. I just don't think it's reasonable to force the issue so soon.
skip
I remember attempting to install an OS8 or 9 disk that had come with a G3 Powerbook, but wanted to install on a G3 desktop. Wouldn't install. I then tried intalling onto an external, but with a PB startup, then tried to start off the new install with the desktop...... still didn't work. At some point, it appears Apple was shipping software that was machine specific. So, it appears it IS quite possible. I wonder if the Powerlogix upgrade cards, and those of their brethren, would be a viable alternative to get around this OS9 shut-out? With the new life the Powerlogix cpu upgrade card gave my beloved Pismo, I'm certainly gonna give it a try. I've got to stay in 0S9 a bit longer, but I truly am looking forward to the day I can just use one OS. I just don't think it's reasonable to force the issue so soon.
skip
I'm beginning to suspect that it's not so much a matter of people and their software having a problem with this decision but that it is them not wanting to change period. I know people who actually got out of the Mac market when X came out because frankly it scared them. Everything changed so if they're going to learn something new why now learn Windows.
Don't get me wrong Apple needs to convince the software companies to move things along. Another aspect to this is that money is tight and by doing this it allows Apple to not spend as much on support. Apple isn't MS afterall where they can support a large number of OS's.
Don't get me wrong Apple needs to convince the software companies to move things along. Another aspect to this is that money is tight and by doing this it allows Apple to not spend as much on support. Apple isn't MS afterall where they can support a large number of OS's.
Now I just wish Macromedia would sort out Director....... they really are crap they are.... 😱 😛 😛 [/B][/QUOTE]
In defense of Macromedia...Freehand was one of the very first major graphic apps ported to 10.
In defense of Macromedia...Freehand was one of the very first major graphic apps ported to 10.
Rocketman
macrumors 603
Very simple. Next Mac you buy, just keep your old one too. Stick it on the network and have a compatible environment for those tasks, and a server capable of any new "monster appplications" which generally ought to not interest consumers at all.
This announcement basicly says BUY CURRENT machines now since they are DUAL BOOT.
Rocketman
In defense of Macromedia...Freehand was one of the very first major graphic apps ported to 10. [/B][/QUOTE]
Totally..... freehand was a very smart release indeed....... shame they've let themselves down with Director though...... it's taking far too long to port..... I really do hope it's worth it...... 🙄 🙂
iShater
macrumors 604
When MS moved from DOS to Win95, the same thing happened, you had to boot into DOS mode for a while for your programs to work. That functionality I believe lasted into Win98, but I don't think you can run really old DOS programs there that access hardware directly. It is the responsibility of application developers to update their applications to work with new operating systems.
the same problem would exist if you switched to windows. You'd still have to buy new software.
I have very little money to spend on anything let alone computers. I don't however find apple products to be "overpriced" and the cost of upgrading is no afterthought but it is a neccessity. If the software you need is business related buy it and write it off on your taxes.
OS 10 has been in development for a very long time and has been out to the public for 2 years now. So excuse apple for wanting people to start using it exclusively now after all the time and effort they've put into it. People complain that "macs are way behind in speed" well we're way ahead in OS technology and can't stay that way if you don't upgrade. Do you want to live with yesterday's technology?
If you need a machine to only get email you wouldnt buy a $5,000 power mac, and if you're implying that all a $5000 powermac would be good for is getting email, then well i don't even know where to start telling you how mistaken you are. Just buy a pc at this point because your very disillusioned
Just because you're "not ready" for something doesnt mean the world stops turning. Christ if people stopped technological progression because people weren't ready we'd still be staring at an apple II
People weren't ready for the automobile either, so they strapped on some shoes and WALKED!
i suggest you do the same.
I think dell is having a sale...
jelloshotsrule
macrumors G3
great post thirteenva...
i can certainly see where people are coming from. i still have a couple occasional reasons to boot up in 9... games, some apps, whatever...
but i agree that apple needs to apply more pressure to those who haven't already taken advantage of the much better os that is os x...
i'm happy to see it being done now
i can certainly see where people are coming from. i still have a couple occasional reasons to boot up in 9... games, some apps, whatever...
but i agree that apple needs to apply more pressure to those who haven't already taken advantage of the much better os that is os x...
i'm happy to see it being done now
digitalbiker
macrumors 65816
Appl,e to blame as much as lazy developers
Hey! don't just blame lazy a#%@*s software developers. Prior to Jaguar a large number of the audio components weren't supported in OS X. Even with Jaguar, I have heard many complaints on the devleoper networks about how buggy a number of the new features are.
So blaming the software developers doesn't hold water! Apple has been extremely slow getting OS X up to snuff where it could perform at the same level as OS 9. ALso the last set of fiqures I had seen on Apple users were; 80% OS 9 and 20% OS X. How does a software developer make money in such a small market? And how many actual OS X users are we talking about?
I am still a bit sceptical about how well classic will be supported when the hardware doesn't have OS 9 native drivers that allow booting into OS 9. I'll bet classic performance will be really lame on the new hardware from Apple. That will really please the remaining 80% of Apples user base
Hey! don't just blame lazy a#%@*s software developers. Prior to Jaguar a large number of the audio components weren't supported in OS X. Even with Jaguar, I have heard many complaints on the devleoper networks about how buggy a number of the new features are.
So blaming the software developers doesn't hold water! Apple has been extremely slow getting OS X up to snuff where it could perform at the same level as OS 9. ALso the last set of fiqures I had seen on Apple users were; 80% OS 9 and 20% OS X. How does a software developer make money in such a small market? And how many actual OS X users are we talking about?
I am still a bit sceptical about how well classic will be supported when the hardware doesn't have OS 9 native drivers that allow booting into OS 9. I'll bet classic performance will be really lame on the new hardware from Apple. That will really please the remaining 80% of Apples user base
I just wanted to mention one thing regarding Apple "disabling" OS 9 on hardware in January. From what I've always heard, it's the other way around. Each time new hardware is created, Apple has to go through a specific effort to make the already-existing OS work on it. So this is Apple saying that after years of OS X being around, they are not planning to make OS 9 work on the newest hardware.
When January 1st comes around, Apple is not going to seize all current Mac hardware that you own, nor will they outlaw all Mac stores selling OS 9-compatible hardware. They will not sue people selling these machines on eBay. The product will continue to exist. You have your Mac, and you have the software for it.
If OS X fails then it's bye-bye Apple. Why should Apple put their entire business model and very existence at risk because a few of you *might* buy computers in the next few years and you want even the newest ones to run your years-old OS?
When January 1st comes around, Apple is not going to seize all current Mac hardware that you own, nor will they outlaw all Mac stores selling OS 9-compatible hardware. They will not sue people selling these machines on eBay. The product will continue to exist. You have your Mac, and you have the software for it.
If OS X fails then it's bye-bye Apple. Why should Apple put their entire business model and very existence at risk because a few of you *might* buy computers in the next few years and you want even the newest ones to run your years-old OS?
OS X too new for Prime Time
Okay, so they won't come with OS 9 installed. Are we to believe that OS 9 will not run on the new machines? I for one will not be buying into OS X until anoher release or 2. The previous versions were nothing more than beta so until I see a real value in upgrading I will stay with what I have.
Do you really believe that Apple can afford to lose 3rd party developers at this point? These are perilous times and to lose support at this juncture is just suicide. If I owned stock in Apple, I'd be dumping it now.
Okay, so they won't come with OS 9 installed. Are we to believe that OS 9 will not run on the new machines? I for one will not be buying into OS X until anoher release or 2. The previous versions were nothing more than beta so until I see a real value in upgrading I will stay with what I have.
Do you really believe that Apple can afford to lose 3rd party developers at this point? These are perilous times and to lose support at this juncture is just suicide. If I owned stock in Apple, I'd be dumping it now.
Let's get technical
I have a friend in the music industry. I have helped him many times upgrade, fix his computer. He uses professional recording software/hardware to tweak his music. Until very recently, he had to use Windows98 or ME, because of the way operating systems handle applications. In the newer OSs, the OS dictates how much time a given application is given. This is a pain for recording, because, as my friend put it, it makes "gaps" in the recording. This is why he used Win98. This was an older OS, that allowed the apps to take complete control over the system.
The reason I am saying this, is perhaps the Pro-Audio software guys don't yet have the ability to make decent software with OS X's "modern" OS like Pre-emptive Multi-tasking. So just because Apple is "forcing" the OS X issue, does not mean that it is even possible to upgrade some software yet. I am only guessing here, so don't get your panties in a bunch, just expressing a possibility they has yet to be posted.
I have a friend in the music industry. I have helped him many times upgrade, fix his computer. He uses professional recording software/hardware to tweak his music. Until very recently, he had to use Windows98 or ME, because of the way operating systems handle applications. In the newer OSs, the OS dictates how much time a given application is given. This is a pain for recording, because, as my friend put it, it makes "gaps" in the recording. This is why he used Win98. This was an older OS, that allowed the apps to take complete control over the system.
The reason I am saying this, is perhaps the Pro-Audio software guys don't yet have the ability to make decent software with OS X's "modern" OS like Pre-emptive Multi-tasking. So just because Apple is "forcing" the OS X issue, does not mean that it is even possible to upgrade some software yet. I am only guessing here, so don't get your panties in a bunch, just expressing a possibility they has yet to be posted.
pretentious
macrumors regular
I leave one message and comeback and everyone is all pissy...
Now SJ said that the NEW computers are only going to be bootable in OS X now I highly doubt that they are simply going to just screw w/ the motherboard just to piss off all of the stragglers who can or want to buy the latest and greatest but stay w/ the old.
More likely that there is a major upgrade is very soon.
This is a good thing.
Now about the 'puny' little DUAL 1.25 GHZ POWERMAC that can run OS 9, well I'm sure that this can suffice until the developers can give us decent apps for X. Apple is just saying this now to tell them to get it in gear or their apps will be extremely outdated.
Now I haven't switched to OS X because I would need a new computer and I simply don't have any money and on my old 7200/75 that someone gave to me, and it runs OS 9. This was made almost 9 years ago! And it still runs the very same OS that you want to run on your brand new machine. Just to put it into perspective.
And one more thing for the Audiophiles, didn't Apple just shell out some money to buy out an Music app company? Can we say FCP for music in X soon?
Now SJ said that the NEW computers are only going to be bootable in OS X now I highly doubt that they are simply going to just screw w/ the motherboard just to piss off all of the stragglers who can or want to buy the latest and greatest but stay w/ the old.
More likely that there is a major upgrade is very soon.
This is a good thing.
Now about the 'puny' little DUAL 1.25 GHZ POWERMAC that can run OS 9, well I'm sure that this can suffice until the developers can give us decent apps for X. Apple is just saying this now to tell them to get it in gear or their apps will be extremely outdated.
Now I haven't switched to OS X because I would need a new computer and I simply don't have any money and on my old 7200/75 that someone gave to me, and it runs OS 9. This was made almost 9 years ago! And it still runs the very same OS that you want to run on your brand new machine. Just to put it into perspective.
And one more thing for the Audiophiles, didn't Apple just shell out some money to buy out an Music app company? Can we say FCP for music in X soon?
Ok, this brings up a problem.
Symantec has publically stated that they CANNOT make a MacOS X Bootable CD because Apple does not provide them the capability/permission to do so.
So... What are all the utility and other companies going to do now? All of their boot CD's are MacOS 9 based...
IMHO, this is a STUPID move on Apple's part. It's the sort of customer corralling you would expect from Microsoft.
TL
Symantec has publically stated that they CANNOT make a MacOS X Bootable CD because Apple does not provide them the capability/permission to do so.
So... What are all the utility and other companies going to do now? All of their boot CD's are MacOS 9 based...
IMHO, this is a STUPID move on Apple's part. It's the sort of customer corralling you would expect from Microsoft.
TL