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Screenshots mean nothing when it comes to the inner workings of a sophisticated operating system.

Looks like the switch to Cocoa is going better than expected.
 
Interesting take on the future, Intel and/or Mobility;

"The future: Intel"
"8 core configs now common"
"12-16 cores become common"
"2015: one million cores"

then

"The future: Mobility"
"microdevices"

the purchase of PA Semi, ...

where's the netbook?
 
Isn't Apple's Q1 over in December? I know their quarter system is weird.

And if he wasn't referring to their own quarter, then that definitely means the end of March. Now just add on 2-3 months worth of delays and bam, June 2009. So where's the news here?

I can't wait to use the Geforce 8600 in my MBP for GPGPU processing and have it completely FAIL due to the faulty video cards that nVidia decided to ship.
 
This is pretty much geared for the enterprise...

In theory, yes. But that is only relevant when Apple opens OS X for non-Apple hardware, meaning: Regular PCs, as in Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Asus, Acer or Lenovo.

You will have a hard time finding corporations or large organizations that willingly enter a hardware-vendor-lock, especially when that vendor is more expensive than the competition, does not sell low-end office machines, has the general policy of not providing product road maps, has no enterprise-level support services worth mentioning and worst of all is not even compatible with legacy (Windows-based) applications out of the box.

On top of that, OS X is lacking a large amount of enterprise-level features, from deployment over administration to backup.

Try selling that to an IT department of a large organization. Good luck, you'll need it.

OS X was made for consumers, small sites and basically everything that has nothing to do with the enterprise. Its direct competition from Redmond was mainly made for exactly the other end of the spectrum: Large scale deployments in huge organizations. Places where nobody cares for design and beautiful user interfaces and where only enterprise-ready feature lists count.

You'll have more luck selling Linux in those places than OS X. For starters, Linux can be deployed on already existing hardware. And that closes the circle back to the statement that Apple needs to open OS X for third party hardware if they want to gain any significance in the enterprise market.


(Does this forum have a problem with Firefox?)
 
Wow

It's a MacRumors tradition that we see the absolute worst in every rumor, so before anyone else gets there...

It may not be cheap. It may not run on PPC processor machines. Like Leopard, it might be fragile on release. It may mess with your apps and your setup, it may be disappointing to many and it may just be late.

OK, we've got that out of the way. ;)

Got goosebumps... are you beta testing 10.6 for me? are you me? :eek:
 
Jordan is a pretty high-up engineer at Apple, and judging from his job title, is in charge of everything Unix-y in OS X, which is a lot of responsibility. He was one of the guys who started the FreeBSD project in 1993 and is highly skilled, so if anybody would have inside info about the development cycle, it's him.

Having said that, I agree that it's odd he would let this slip out in a public presentation. LISA is not an Apple conference and thus is not governed by NDA, so he knew this would be publicized. Either this was a deliberate but fairly quiet pre-announcement, or he was in a rush and didn't edit his slides carefully enough. The latter strikes me as uncharacteristically sloppy, so I'm leaning towards the former.

Either way, I'm curious. That's quite a bit sooner than I expected, and I hope Snow Leopard ships when it's ready and not before. 10.5 still has some outstanding bugs and I wish they would get it right. Here's hoping for 10.5.6...

OK his name is Jordan, not Moses, so whatever he says can be adjusted or edited...
 
It's a MacRumors tradition that we see the absolute worst in every rumor, so before anyone else gets there...

It may not be cheap. It may not run on PPC processor machines. Like Leopard, it might be fragile on release. It may mess with your apps and your setup, it may be disappointing to many and it may just be late.

OK, we've got that out of the way. ;)

Heh, you got me. Within seconds of seeing the article, I was thinking all those exact things. ;)
 
Grammar mistake

"" Q1 release would deliver it early than most had expected and makes it conceivable that we could see a demo or announcement at Macworld San Francisco 2009.""


early should = earlier

Am i mistaken ?
 
In theory, yes. But that is only relevant when Apple opens OS X for non-Apple hardware, meaning: Regular PCs, as in Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Asus, Acer or Lenovo.

You will have a hard time finding corporations or large organizations that willingly enter a hardware-vendor-lock, especially when that vendor is more expensive than the competition, does not sell low-end office machines, has the general policy of not providing product road maps, has no enterprise-level support services worth mentioning and worst of all is not even compatible with legacy (Windows-based) applications out of the box.

On top of that, OS X is lacking a large amount of enterprise-level features, from deployment over administration to backup.

Try selling that to an IT department of a large organization. Good luck, you'll need it.

OS X was made for consumers, small sites and basically everything that has nothing to do with the enterprise. Its direct competition from Redmond was mainly made for exactly the other end of the spectrum: Large scale deployments in huge organizations. Places where nobody cares for design and beautiful user interfaces and where only enterprise-ready feature lists count.

You'll have more luck selling Linux in those places than OS X. For starters, Linux can be deployed on already existing hardware. And that closes the circle back to the statement that Apple needs to open OS X for third party hardware if they want to gain any significance in the enterprise market.

Wow! I could not have said it better.
But what is the way forward? Growth in the consumer segment is limited (we will see this soon) and "opening up" brings it's own set of problems...
:(
 
It may not run on PPC processor machines.

Xenu willing, it won't.

Hell, I'll pay extra for a 64bit Xeon-only optimized version that doesn't have the stupid time & resource wasting crap like the transitions between desktop and dashboard.

I just want speed, speed, badass speed.
 
Jordan is a pretty high-up engineer at Apple, and judging from his job title, is in charge of everything Unix-y in OS X, which is a lot of responsibility. He was one of the guys who started the FreeBSD project in 1993 and is highly skilled, so if anybody would have inside info about the development cycle, it's him.

Having said that, I agree that it's odd he would let this slip out in a public presentation. LISA is not an Apple conference and thus is not governed by NDA, so he knew this would be publicized. Either this was a deliberate but fairly quiet pre-announcement, or he was in a rush and didn't edit his slides carefully enough. The latter strikes me as uncharacteristically sloppy, so I'm leaning towards the former.

Either way, I'm curious. That's quite a bit sooner than I expected, and I hope Snow Leopard ships when it's ready and not before. 10.5 still has some outstanding bugs and I wish they would get it right. Here's hoping for 10.5.6...

Even so, the problem is that we don't have any voice that goes with it. All the slide show is, is a basic outline of what was talked about; when he says, 'release date' what does he mean? did he talk about 'best case scenario - we're aiming for this date' release date? we don't know the full circumstances - the why's and where-for's to explain the change from 'second half of 2009' to 'q1 of 2009'. Personally, I'd rather wait before celebrating with the birthday suit boogie.
 
In theory this makes perfect sense, as Snow Leopard has very few new features, its mainly optimising the code, and streamlining OS X 10.5 features so that the OS as a whole has a smaller foot print and runs tighter, compacter and faster. If you make the OS more efficient and stable, apps now have a more consistent code base to pull from, and have less margin for error. Not to say Apple can't mess it up, they easily could. But after adding so many features year after year, its nice to have them rounding it off. Snow Leopard could easily be the least justifiable upgrade they've ever made, but by far the most needed one. They might not get much publicity over it, but it'd be their best move yet.

bet on them to get that publicity. they always do.
:cool:
 
Wow! I could not have said it better.
But what is the way forward? Growth in the consumer segment is limited (we will see this soon) and "opening up" brings it's own set of problems...
:(

Apple's current strategy in the consumer market is very high profit margins in a niche market with small market share. It's worked well so far, but my opinion is that Apple's margins will seriously suffer in today's economy. Their recent release of notebooks was a slap in the face for those wishing more affordable Macs that are actually reasonably priced compared to the competition.

I'd love to see an open OS X. I dislike Apple hardware. But there is a 0% chance Apple will allow it. And so users like me will have to continue making the decision of whether OS X is worth the lackluster, overpriced hardware.
 
Xenu willing, it won't.

Careful there. You're risking the tortured cries of the many. Xenu won't save you, electric ribbon or not.

I hold out this insane and desperate hope that it's going to be cheaper than the usual OS X updates. Throw something our way, Steve. :eek:
 
Screenshots mean nothing when it comes to the inner workings of a sophisticated operating system.

Looks like the switch to Cocoa is going better than expected.

"damn those threads look sexy!"
"wow, you can really see how finely locked that operating system is!"

:D
 
Careful there. You're risking the tortured cries of the many. Xenu won't save you, electric ribbon or not.

I hold out this insane and desperate hope that it's going to be cheaper than the usual OS X updates. Throw something our way, Steve. :eek:

Hell, cut off the Core Duo owners, too. I don't want 32bit stuff holding back my machine.

I'd HAPPILY drop $300 on a version of OS X coded ONLY for 64bit Intel chips, with full OpenCL/CUDA and multithreading. No bloat, no stupid flashy crap, just pure performance. Get the install under 4GB, idle RAM usage down to a couple hundred megs.

I'm bitter, though. I'm tired of bloat and bugs.
 
Can't wait for Mac World :D I don't think it will be done by January either but I expect a demo at Mac World along with some new desktops including the Mac Pro and the all new Mac Mini :) Now I just want my new MacBook Pro!
 
In theory, yes. But that is only relevant when Apple opens OS X for non-Apple hardware, meaning: Regular PCs, as in Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Asus, Acer or Lenovo.

You will have a hard time finding corporations or large organizations that willingly enter a hardware-vendor-lock, especially when that vendor is more expensive than the competition, does not sell low-end office machines, has the general policy of not providing product road maps, has no enterprise-level support services worth mentioning and worst of all is not even compatible with legacy (Windows-based) applications out of the box.

On top of that, OS X is lacking a large amount of enterprise-level features, from deployment over administration to backup.

I wasn't saying they were looking to conquer the corporation. Just support corporate users better. So this eliminates Exchange as a barrier to entry. Apologies for any confusion.

Some counterpoint as a lot of what you say as I feel OS 10 is a viable solution if admins are open to it. I’m not bashing or fanboi-ing just trying as you stated to
Try selling that to an IT department of a large organization. Good luck, you'll need it.

The sell...

One big problem is companies are generally so heavily invested in Windows (from training to licenses) they can't break away from thinking of anything else as an option... from Windows to ASP.net.

re: roadmaps I don't see this as an issue. The Vista release debacle should prove my point. Just because MS says it'll be x, y, or z date doesn't mean it will. And Apple has been pretty spot on with hitting their committed marks in the previous releases.

re: Vendor lock. This is all corporations DO! Its how they get discounts. They only buy Dell, or HP, or... vendor x. Granted the OS in this case is Windows and will work with multiple vendors PCs (hopefully) but they are just as tied to one vendor because of the bean counters. Try buying from a non approved vendor!

If you're ordering feature for feature the Macs are comparable to PCs. Yes you can get a cheaper PC... but it will not be component for component the same. Apple does tend to favor more bleeding edge stuff and PCs generally make trade offs to get a lower price. I agree Apple is slightly higher (in most cases) but not by as much as you imply. You're talking more about the bottom end in my opinion. In other words, cheap, so in that case then yes look somewhere else besides Apple.

The legacy stuff... what couldn't you run in a VM? Most legacy stuff isn't supported out of the box on Windows without a crap ton of configuration anyway. I speak from experience. I say this is a wash with a 15 minute tip of the hat to the windows side because it is pre-installed. Addressing a problem of licenses... you’re installing old software so you’d already have the licenses, etc. One problem would be on the obsolete hardware side (i.e. hardware locks, ISA cards, etc)... but this same problem would exist on newer PCs too.

On top of that, OS X is lacking a large amount of enterprise-level features, from deployment over administration to backup.

I can’t think of anything off hand that falls into this category. In fact I would argue with ssh you can do more on a Mac, and yes you can do remote deploys and administration on a Mac... not sure why you’re saying you can’t...

I think you underestimate OS X here and at the risk of making an incorrect assumption your background is probably heavy on the Windows side. Perhaps I'm wrong but your statement has a bit of Windows bias in it.

If your talking about imaging... its built into the OS... Backup and Restore of partitions in Disk Utility. And there are great third party tools for this too.

Other great tools that would be available to admins would be ssh access, Remote Desktop, Applescript, and Automator. Remote software updates are really easy. And you don’t need Remote Desktop on Leopard or greater. (Screen Sharing) but if you had it nothing is off limits. So I’m not sure how you’d be worse off with OS 10. In fact I think you’d have more options out of the box. Plus you’d NEVER have to deal with the registry.

OS X was made for consumers, small sites and basically everything that has nothing to do with the enterprise. Its direct competition from Redmond was mainly made for exactly the other end of the spectrum: Large scale deployments in huge organizations. Places where nobody cares for design and beautiful user interfaces and where only enterprise-ready feature lists count.

You'll have more luck selling Linux in those places than OS X. For starters, Linux can be deployed on already existing hardware. And that closes the circle back to the statement that Apple needs to open OS X for third party hardware if they want to gain any significance in the enterprise market.

I think you mean OS X is marketed to consumers... and in that you’d be right. But design wise (OS Level) its comparable to a Windows box but with a more consistent design which translates into better ease of use. There is a consistency throughout the OS thanks to the Carbon and Cocoa frameworks. Which ensure when you learn the basics of one program they translate easily to others.

Plus not to mention support time is significantly reduced on a OS 10 box. No viruses, spyware, and great sand boxing of users. Perhaps its a pipe dream of mine but why is this never factored into purchasing decisions... its a shame IMHO.

And as for enterprise users... in my experience “enterprise” users need Excel, Word, email, and an internet browser but claim they need more... and most of the other stuff they “have” to have they never use in their job functions and is wasted money for said company.

Plus if you take the Linux route you lose the Excel/Word edge (basing this on needing 100% compatibility) and that opens a world of options for native (disregarding Office:Mac) OS 10 with programs like Openoffice.org and NeoOffice which are free and save the company 400 bucks per license. Not surprisingly these are also available on Windows but yet companies still require “official” licenses of Office for their “enterprise” users. More waste. In addition, I think the learning curve of Linux for the end users is still too steep.

I think if you consider the entire cycle. From cost of hardware, software, training users, and supporting a machine. The argument can be made that a Mac is right there with Windows if not ahead.
 
Apple's current strategy in the consumer market is very high profit margins in a niche market with small market share. It's worked well so far, but my opinion is that Apple's margins will seriously suffer in today's economy. Their recent release of notebooks was a slap in the face for those wishing more affordable Macs that are actually reasonably priced compared to the competition.

I'd love to see an open OS X. I dislike Apple hardware. But there is a 0% chance Apple will allow it. And so users like me will have to continue making the decision of whether OS X is worth the lackluster, overpriced hardware.

Macs are not overpriced this has been discussed too many times now. If you didn't get it...

Mac has features and a quality you rarely find elsewhere. Some features of new macbooks aren't comparable in small notebeook pc maket like multitouch pad, Nvidia, 9400M, unibody. So get the fact and stop whining.
 
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