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oblique raising arizona reference

What did Jobs say last year? New OS every 20-24 months? I don't want a yearly OS. Useless. Especially now with the computers slowing in progression.

OSX has become a hulking load of trivia since OSX 10.3, so they should get it trimmed down back to what it was originally: a basic, useful, fast OS.

So which is it, young feller? You want they should refrain or release? I mean to say, if'n they refrain they can't rightly release. And if'n they release, they're a-gonna be in motion!
 
It seems the press release about Snow Leopard is pulled ...
Could someone post it here ?
 
They are really going to need to sell this with some kind of feature update or most people aren't going to buy it - how many people are going to hand over $129 for a performance update.

Shouldn't Apple be doing this anyway - it seems like an omission that Leopard isn't great and this is mearly a dare i say "Leopard Service Pack" that you have to pay for.

Not impressed at the moment.

How could you expect to be impressed when you barely know anything about it? It's tiring to see the same whining comment over and over about the pricing when we don't know the pricing. It seems obvious to me that it will have to be significantly lower than the normal $129, probably at least by half.

Also, this is not "service pack" type stuff since Apple doesn't do service packs. The things they are fixing aren't necessarily bugs, but performance issues and legacy stuff that is no longer necessary. Snow Leopard is very necessary, it's going to prevent a whole Mac OS 9 to X or XP to Vista transition happening all over again. The reason we even had that transition in the first place is because of people being unwilling to change, and Apple was too afraid to do anything drastic until they had no choice. Luckily, Apple is going to do it no matter what.

besides whoever heard of a stable new operating system?! don't make me laugh. Nobody (including apple) has ever made one and that's not going to change in Snow leopard -I'll bet all my money on that.

And why do you think that is? It's because they add new features that have bugs. How can you not understand that that's the whole point of this release? They are going to spend the amount of time they normally spend adding new features (and bugs) and instead they're going to increase performance and maximize stability. I've noticed that OS X isn't as stable as they tend to say, and I believe that this will give us a truly rock solid operating system.

Or perhaps there is more than they are telling us. Rumors of dropping PPC support. They do mention improving compatibility with modern hardware and I did read an article just today that suggested Apple may indeed be moving to opening up OSX to run on PC's. Whatever the case I think something is certainly up.

Really? You Really think that Apple might have a trick up their sleeve or might, oh, I don't know, be withholding information that's under some sort of NDA-like thing in their Leopard developer sessions? What amazing insight you have. Also, NO. Apple will almost undoubtedly not allow OS X to run on PCs. They already tried that once and it almost killed them. Sorry for the sarcasm...

Other stuff they only half-finish. What happened to resolution
independence? Or ZFS anyone? If they'd put half the energy into
that that they put into the iPhone, we would have it by now.

See, that's what I really think this update is about. They have a lot of features in there that are really buggy, but in a normal release they might fall under the radar. This is where they get to tie all of those features in properly. Here's a list of the ones that I know of:

• Resolution Independence
• Quartz GL (Quartz 2D Extreme)
• ZFS
• FTP

I'm sure there are a lot more. I really think they just aren't at the point where they can talk about it.
 
Right now, yes. But by the time Snow Leopard materializes,
the whole Mac lineup may consist of 4+ core machines.

Plus, having support in at such an early point will make Macs ahead of the game. The computer industry is moving towards multicore, and OSX will be better prepared for it before it happens (rather than retroactively trying to optimise your OS for multi-core).

Like Steve says, be where the puck will be and not where it has been.
 
It won't be free. They have to pay for the Exchange licensing somehow.

I'd say somewhere between $49.99 and $79.99, I don't think they would be able to get more than $100 bucks though. The 2.0 firmware for the iPod touch is only $10, so I'd say they'd only charge enough to cover the costs and a little for their efforts.

I don't think Steve is that dumb to charge full price for something that doesn't add a whole lot of functionality.
 
Nobody, which is why it'll be either 20 bucks, or free just like 10.1.



But if they're putting a hold on the features, they have nothing for competitors to find out.
I believe 10.1 was only free to those who got it at the Apple store within a certain length of time. I believe Apple ultimately did charge money for 10.1, though I don't know how much it was.
 
exactly, apparently dernhelm hasn't installed Vista SP1... talk about night and day difference
I have Vista SP1 on a new laptop I purchased last month. If the speed of it is improved, the original Vista must have been awful.
 
I modify my previous response. I would like some resolution independence as well. I would also love to see a media player other than vlc that supports all sort of video, like avi, mpeg, wma, etc. Quicktime X had better do that.

I also agree with the post pointing out that if Apple put any effort into ZFS they would have it by now. On that note, ZFS had better be included. I am messing around with OpenSolaris 2008.05 on a cheap Dell, ZFS is absolutely amazing! Apple should also steal the method Sun uses to install that OS as well.

Apple is famous for its rhetoric to frame a situation and then generate expectation from the product when released. The snow leopard announcement was probably a bad choice of words to capture the situation. There will need to be more than just a "service pack" to be a 10.x. I think there will just be less features or expanded features compared to what we are used too in terms of numbers.

ps - leopard, in my opinion, was the clean up of the culmination of all the clutter in 10.0-10.4. Leopard itself is still buggy and bogged down, needing a lot of improvements. If 10.6 refines this, it will be worth the money compared to windows 7 or ubuntu (terrible GUI).
 
Oh do stop the complaining. We know next to nothing right now so it's silly to jump to conclusion. It benefits no one. Personally I take this as good news: it's exactly the kind of responsible development I like to see, especially in my main OS.

None developers:

Please try to keep in mind that Quicktime is not the same thing as the Quicktime Player.

Leopard can read ZFS, and full [pre-release] support is available from the developer connection.

Resolution independence is present in Leopard; it takes time for developers to adjust their code.

It'll happen,

Mark.
 
Certainly should be cheaper than the leopard upgrade was, even though the "300 new features" for leopard was stretching it a bit...
 
ps - leopard, in my opinion, was the clean up of the culmination of all the clutter in 10.0-10.4. Leopard itself is still buggy and bogged down, needing a lot of improvements. If 10.6 refines this, it will be worth the money compared to windows 7 or ubuntu (terrible GUI).
Are you serious? It felt to me like each release since 10.0 to 10.4 had been cleaning up the previous release plus adding a few things...10.5 seems to be more cluttered than the rest in comparison by adding too much and not accounting for the bugs it would all cause.
 
I have Vista SP1 on a new laptop I purchased last month. If the speed of it is improved, the original Vista must have been awful.

It was, which must be why some people still hate it so much, because Vista (64-bit) now is much better than XP.
 
This has gotta be in preparation for Nehalem.

And not a moment too soon. An 8-core Mac Pro system next summer will be 16 Logical CPU to the OS. I don't think Leopard could manage this many cores today with efficiency but knowing that Apple has been working to improve multi core performance I'm feeling much more confident.
 
I love trimming the fat out of Leopard, but the major problem with speed in the system is actually they filesystem. Its almost 20 yrs old. To really optimize the system, they have got to include ZFS as a default filesystem... A more broad tab based browsing system for the finder would be nice as well,

New filesystem would be great, especially if it worked just as efficiently on Macs, Windows and Unix. Love the idea of tabs in the browser...

Without information on pricing I think it is too early to place judgement on Snow Leopard. IMO Apple is to be commended for trying to streamline their software. My current Mac, although x times faster and with a lot more RAM feels just as snappy as my old G4 did running OS9, so all in all over the years we have seen little increase in the realtive speed of computers - the machines have become smaller and quicker and the software larger and slower. To fully optimise the OS to use all the features the hardware can offer would be great - multi cores and GPU, I wonder much of their power goes to waste in the average computer. If the future is to be mobile, more efficient software will allow speed gains on lower power chips.

I reckon this is all part of Apple's plans for the future of all its iAPP/iHardware. The OS is the core for all of them and needs to work smoothly, quickly and concisely across the board - whether it is a beast of a Mac Pro or a wee iPhone (and crucially the machines must sync correctly with each other).

I hope Adobe is considering doing this to Photoshop and the rest of the CS3 suite. I have more problems with CS3 than any other software!

I love Leopard and some of the features it brought, so no wish to step back to Tiger. The big problem Apple will have is if people will pay full price for this (marketing problem) - upgrade price? Yup, I would...
 
Why should we pay for a stable OS?

Is apple now creating unstable buggy OS's so we have to pay for a new version that is focusing solely on stability instead of new features?

In this case i sure hope Snow Leopard is going to be free for those who purchased Leopard.

I can't accept the fact that there are still so many quirks and bugs with Leopard and then we'd have to pay for a "fixed" stable version aka Snow Leopard.
 
I have mixed feelings on this. I like getting a brand new operating system every 12-18 months or so, and always look forward to the new features.

But for years, I have said that Apple (and Windows) should just work on perfecting what they've got instead of constantly trying to add new things. I'm sure some people will say Leopard is perfect and bug-free, but this isn't the case. If they spend time on the little quirks and bugs (feel free to visit the discussion forums at apple.com if you aren't aware of any), then that will be a welcome change.

As a developer (not OS X, but generally speaking) I can tell you that speeding things up and optimizing is generally much harder work than pumping out new features and yet people only want to pay for the latter as evidenced by:

Now, if they expect $129 for a what appears to be in essence a maintenance release, they have another thing coming...

Not to mention, it's not merely a maintenance release anymore than dealing with something like the addition of Altivec would have qualified. Frankly, quite a bit of Leopard was not about new features as far as something the end user would be experiencing directly, but rather things like Objective C 2.0, core animation and a number of other technologies. I have a feeling the reason they went with the name "Snow Leopard" is because we'll see a lot of the underlying tech in Leopard come to fruition.

And as a side note, I hope they drop PPC. I'm still running Tiger on my MacBook so the prospect of not having 10.6 on my PPC Mini doesn't exactly keep me awake at night. I'm guessing the only people worried about this are those with multiprocessor G5s. If they're focusing on speed and optimization, it seems logical to drop PPC. However, maybe another release. I dunno. (I'd also like to see 32-bit die. No more fat binaries, just x86-64.) I'm not wed to the idea, but I'm a little too keep on "out with the old and in with the new."
 
10.5 seems to be more cluttered than the rest in comparison by adding too much and not accounting for the bugs it would all cause.

Of course they accounted for the bugs that adding features would cause. It's a very basic principle of software engineering that adding features leads to regression. Releases don't happen when the number of "knows bugs" in your issue tracking system reach zero. Rather, release happens when the open & known bugs are tolerable, regardless of how many there are.

If you recall the days of Leopard's release, the peasants were already at the castle gates — armed with pitchforks and torches — clamoring its release. The old song at the time was "why did you allocate MacOS engineers to the iPhone!? I want my update!".

Well, they got their update. Now it's time to refactor, clean, optimize, fix...I personally find this refreshing. It's about time some vendor took a stand against feeping creaturism.
 
And not a moment too soon. An 8-core Mac Pro system next summer will be 16 Logical CPU to the OS. I don't think Leopard could manage this many cores today with efficiency but knowing that Apple has been working to improve multi core performance I'm feeling much more confident.

Not to derail the thread, but would you mind explaining the whole hyperthreading/logical core thing? I'm not sure I understand it.
 
I love trimming the fat out of Leopard, but the major problem with speed in the system is actually they filesystem. Its almost 20 yrs old. To really optimize the system, they have got to include ZFS as a default filesystem.

I am just curious: Based on what information? Have you seen any ZFS benchmarks recently? I haven't. On the other hand, I know how HFS+ works and it is a damned good file system. Does ZFS support every feature of HFS+? If not, application compatibility will be a nightmare. Enjoy retrofitting things like FSEvents to ZFS. And finally, from Wikipedia:

HFS Plus was introduced with the January 19, 1998 release of Mac OS 8.1.[1] However its first appearance, as a beta filesystem, was in the never-released Copland OS betas.

So much about "almost twenty years old".
 
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