Mac Pro (2009 - 2012) or Hackintosh?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by agejon, Aug 25, 2018.

  1. agejon macrumors member

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    Oct 17, 2008
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    Greece
    #1
    Considering either building a Hackintosh based on i8700K and 64GB ram or buying an old mac pro 5.1 and upgrading to 2 x X5690 with 96 (or 128)GB ram.

    Use Case: Heavy Xcode user, multiple linux VMs (no GUI, only servers) and a couple of Mac VMs, a little bit of Design with Photoshop, Illustrator and Sketch. No Games, No Video Editing.

    Currently i use a i3770K with 32GB of ram Hackintosh, but it reached it’s limits for my needs!

    I am more interested in real life performance than absolute Geekbench scores!

    Any suggestion is appreciated!

    PS: iMac Pro is the best ... but too expensive!!!!!!
     
  2. OneyedK macrumors member

    OneyedK

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    #2
    So basically your debating between a dual Xeon and an i8700K ;)

    My config: Dual X5675 (3,06GHz), 24GB RAM (1333), Samsung SM951 (AHCI), Sapphire Nitro+ RX580 8GB

    I don't code much, but run multiple VM's at the same time (Win7 32, Win10 64, Debian 9.4 most of the time).
    The windows machines have both 4 cores assigned and the Debian get's 2 cores...
    No idea how I would be able to do that with an i8700K.
     
  3. agejon thread starter macrumors member

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    #3
    I am thinking the same thing about the i8700k ... that’s why I am leaning towards the Mac Pro ...
     
  4. TheStork macrumors 6502

    TheStork

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    #4
  5. agejon thread starter macrumors member

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    #5
    Long read... very interesting... BEAST Hackintosh... now you made made my life difficult be giving me one more choice ;)
    I have to research it a bit... i will need to double my budget if i take that route (and of course cutting down the expenses on cpu, ram, gpu etc)
     
  6. TheStork macrumors 6502

    TheStork

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    #6
    Or you can dup MyHero II build as it's a powerful i7 based build. YMMV. Good luck.
     
  7. agejon thread starter macrumors member

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    #7
    Yes, i know about your build and if i go with the i7, i will seriously consider it. Thanks!
     
  8. Flint Ironstag macrumors 6502a

    Flint Ironstag

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    #8
    Consider HP Z620 and Z820. Same generation Xeon as MP 6,1. Pretty cheap on Newegg and eBay.

    I’d go for dual socket, and a pair of 6-10 core CPUs at their highest frequency. Hackintosh guides aplenty.
     
  9. CapnDavey macrumors 6502

    CapnDavey

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    #9
    good deals can be had on 4,1 Mac Pro's I got mine over 2 years ago for 400 dollars
     
  10. karsten macrumors 6502a

    karsten

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    Sep 3, 2010
    #10
    every time i build a hack i always end up asking why i bothered and just get another real mac pro for the simplicity and time saving. not crashing on every update is worth a lot, especially if you rely on the machine for work or income.
     
  11. tsialex macrumors 601

    tsialex

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    #11
    The just work factor counts a lot to me.

    I can count on the reliability of a Mac Pro, but never with a hackintosh. It's always a surprise with software updates.
     
  12. agejon thread starter macrumors member

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    #12
    Another good suggestion... i like xeon/ECC ram builds because their stability and longevity is unmatched. I run 2 old supermicro motherboards with dual westmere cpus, one running Freenas (24/7 for 7 years) and another running ESXi (24/7 for 4 years) and i am really impressed!!! The downtime for both machines is less than 4-5 days in total all these years and mainly for software updates and hardware upgrades!
    --- Post Merged, Aug 26, 2018 ---
    Single or dual cpu configuration?

    In Europe the dual cpu costs more than double, even in 2018! However living in Europe that’s a usual thing and i am willing to spend more.

    However, a single cpu 4,1 even with a X5690 is slower than my overclocked i7 3770K based Hackintosh! If i choose a 4,1 mac pro, definitely i will go with a dual cpu configuration!
     
  13. agejon thread starter macrumors member

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    #13
    Nothing compares to a real Mac... but the hackintosh community has come a long way. Follow one of the “Golden Builds” in https://www.tonymacx86.com/forums/golden-builds.87/ like @TheStork MyHero II Build or @pastrychef Build and you are set for a stable, fast and upgradable Hackintosh.
     
  14. Flint Ironstag macrumors 6502a

    Flint Ironstag

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    #14
    Anyone using a Hackintosh professionally and complaining about software updates breaking things...
     
  15. bafonso macrumors member

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    Jan 26, 2010
    #15
    I was thinking of a hackintosh but when I look at dolar/performance the older upgrades mac pro make more sense unless you really need a beast ... these older xeon dual cpu give you cores aplenty good for parallel processing, really useful for dev work.
     
  16. h9826790, Aug 26, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018

    h9826790 macrumors G5

    h9826790

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    #16
    That's a meaningless worry. Each 8700K core is more than twice faster than a 5675 core. Therefore, in your case, if allocate 2 cores to each Windows VM, 1 core to the Debian VM, all VM will run faster on the 8700K Hackintosh than your current setup.

    1 faster core can always finish 2 slower cores' job in the same period of time (assuming the speed ratio is 2:1). But 2 slower core, no necessary can do 1 faster core's job.

    Also, the virtual CPU count allocated to VM usually can go up to ~5x total logic cores available without problem (but performance may be degraded of course). That means, for a 8700K, you can still allocate 4 cores to each Windows machine and 2 cores to the Debian indeed. That's just 10 virtual cores in total, not even able to fully utilise all 12 logical cores yet. So, the total physical core count is not a concern at all in the very beginning.

    Therefore, in your case, running the same VMs on a 8700K Hackintosh with the same virtual core count (or half the virtual core count) only has benefit, but no disadvantage.

    However, if you worry about resource, memory may be a bigger concern. Dual Xeon can go 128GB or even 160GB on the cMP, but a 8700k Hackintosh is limited to 64GB. If you really need more than 64GB in total for all the VMs, then 8700k Hackintosh is not even a potential candidate. But since you only has 24GB in total, that means the 8700K again can do better (because has faster memory).

    Also, if you need ECC memory for your work / VM... Then 8700K Hackintosh also obviously cannot be a choice.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 26, 2018 ---
    Unless you insist to setup a VM that will completely "own" the virtual CPU cores (which is NOT the common practice because of low efficiency and flexibility. A more proper way to setup VM is only use the real CPU's power on demand). Then all you need to know is really just the how good the multi thread raw performance of that computer is. Core count doesn't really matter. In fact, depends on situation, less core counts may be better (for the same multi thread performance) as explained in my last post.

    And This is what I can get form my 8700K Hackintosh. Which is faster than any cMP can do in both single and multi core situations. For VM, it's almost guarantee all VM can only run better on this computer than any cMP can do.
    GB4.png
     
  17. deconstruct60, Aug 26, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018

    deconstruct60 macrumors 604

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    #17
    There are clock differences but Intel has made substantive progress in implementing the virtualization assist instructions. Any VM system/app that is using the chip native calls/traps to do a virtual machine will be substantively faster than the implementations 4-5 generations back at this point. Lost of folks moan about how Intel hasn't been doing anything much in new processors that is more so aimed at generic basic math operations on serial numbers. In spaces like VM speed/efficiency there have been big changes and the coming up on 10 year old processors don't have them.

    The Macs with modern CPUs have these upgrades too.
     
  18. OneyedK macrumors member

    OneyedK

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    #18
    Thanks!!!
     
  19. h9826790 macrumors G5

    h9826790

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    #19
    There are clock differences but Intel has made substantive progress in implementing the virtualization assist instructions. Any VM system/app that is using the chip native calls/traps to do a virtual machine will be substantively faster than the implementations 4-5 generations back at this point. Lost of folks moan about how Intel hasn't been doing anything much in new processors that is more so aimed at generic basic math operations on serial numbers. In spaces like VM speed/efficiency there have been big changes and the coming up on 10 year old processors don't have them.

    The Macs with modern CPUs have these upgrades too.[/QUOTE]

    100% agree. TBH, sometimes those new functions are much much more important than the clock speed. But I don't want to make it too complicated in that post, and the 8700k can beat 2x X5690 by it's raw performance in all area already. Therefore, didn't mention that in my last post, but simply use clock speed comparison to shows the VMs can only run better on a 8700K Hackintosh.
     
  20. Flint Ironstag macrumors 6502a

    Flint Ironstag

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  21. agejon thread starter macrumors member

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    #21
    I finally went with a Mac Pro 2010 with 2 * x5680 and 64gb ram... I have not received it yet...
    Despite having built a couple of hackintosh before hassle free, I thought what the heck, let’s try that old but “original” hardware!!!!!!

    I have a lot of respect for those old Xeon cpus with ecc ram, I run 2 supermicro systems, one freenas and one esxi for the past 7 years (24/7 except for updates/upgrades) and they still rock!

    If it is not a capable machine for my needs, I will probably use it in my hobbyist datacenter ;-)
     
  22. W1SS, Sep 26, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018

    W1SS macrumors 6502

    W1SS

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    #22
    Congrats! I went for one recently too after bricking my MP3,1 which I ended up fixing after replacing the logic board.

    I sure do hope you made sure it is was insured and packed well for shipping using custom foam inserts or its original box because I learnt the hard way even after paying extra to have it professionally packed by FedEx. It was in mint condition when I bought it but received it with bent handles =( Such a horrifying experience I tell you.

    Anyway, I am getting that sorted as the shipping (forwarding) company is covering the damages.. New enclosure on the way!!

    Edit: just wanted to add that the shipping box was royally abused by the forwarding company's staff. It looked like it came out of a washing machine or like they were playing catch with it.
     
  23. pl1984 macrumors 68020

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    Oct 31, 2017
    #23
    It's for this reason I do not yet have a dual processor Mac Pro 5,1. There's nothing available locally at a reasonable price and the possibility of shipping damage has kept me away from buying from eBay. If there's one thing in favor of the Mac Pro 6,1 it's how easy it is to ship.
     
  24. W1SS macrumors 6502

    W1SS

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    #24
    If you do find a good deal on ebay but the seller doesn't have the original box, a custom box can be ordered from OWC $49 or the thebookyard I think. I just wish I knew it existed before the seller shipped.

    The swapping of the enclosure should be interesting though.. Will find out in a week.
     
  25. agejon thread starter macrumors member

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    #25
    I live in Greece and I have exactly the same problem...
    So I went into “analysis paralysis” about what to do... but in the end I decided to take the risk and buy it ...
    I will update the thread when it arrives ...
     

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38 August 25, 2018