Mac Pro (Early 2008) Notes and Options

[ray_uk]

A Gaming Machine



Its nearly perfect, you have a configuaration for almost every need, for instance a gamer might go for the single quad core cpu with 8800GT graphic card.

Personally I would want to do some 3D rendering and High Definition video editing and some gaming so the dual quad core with a 8800GT and 8GB of RAM would be great for me. Especially now that so many apps can utilise multi core and multiple cpu's.

Its unfortunate that multiple 8800GT's are not supported that would have put it fully on par with any SLI systems.

 

[chedda]

Almost

Ok, do you think my CONFIGURE NOW Mac Pro I just ordered will do the job for me? I just need to type emails to my friend in Jacksonville and want to make sure I have enough power to do so...


Summary

Subtotal $23,197.00
Estimated Ship:
3-5 weeks
Free Shipping
Next business day delivery available

Specifications

Two 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon (8-core)
32GB (8 x 4GB)
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
300GB 15,000-rpm SAS
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5600 1.5GB (Stereo 3D, two dual-link DVI)
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel)
Two 16x SuperDrives
AirPort Extreme card (Wi-Fi)
Apple wireless Mighty Mouse
Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) + Mac OS X

Your missing the raid card needed for your sas drives then you should be email ready !

 

[Music_Producer]

Face it, more and more people who own Apple computers are wanting to play games, especially since we now have access to all the Windows games through bootcamp. Hell, some people might even buy a Mac Pro for just that reason, even if that seems ridiculous to you--

There is nothing stopping Apple from offering better GPU's right now and then upgrading later when the next generation is released.

I am not too sure. From my experience in the music and video industry.. I have not seen anyone purchase a Mac Pro for anything other than work-related stuff. I use my mac pro only for music production. I don't bother loading windows on it. My macbook pro has Fusion on it running XP (for Quicken) .. the mac pro has TBs of audio data, virtual instruments, plug-ins, etc. So it really peeves me when I see n00bs with just a lot of money.. buy a mac pro and use it for downloading movies and complain that they don't download faster than if you were using a laptop.

If I wanted to play games, and was a serious gamer.. I'm pretty sure I would buy a PC gaming machine or a PS 3 or something. I guess some people might buy a mac pro for games.. but to me it seems like a rather ridiculous idea to waste the power of such a beast.. on.. games. You know, I don't think that's what Apple thought when they designed this "Hey, what do you think the gamers are going to do when they see this?"

When I think of games, I think of Alienware, PS3, Wii, Xbox 360, etc. When I think of work, massive rendering, production, etc.. I think of the Mac Pro.

 

[spetznatz]

>ATI Radeon HD 3870

This would be so sweet. It'd be nice to have a choice between high end Nvidia and high end ATI on the Mac Pro without having to pay a fortune for the Quadro card which most people don't need.

Historically ATI cards have been more stable under OS X than Nvidia, so if I were buying a new Mac Pro today and the 3870 were available, I'd probably go with it.

Agreed. Plus, if you use ATi cards you can use ATi Displays Control Panel to provide FSAA to apps like SketchUp -- the display is miles better with this turned on (so useful even if you're not a gamer). Plus you get a lot of performance / quality tweaks, as well.

 

[DGaio]

See, to me this is the typical fanboyism that I hate, and to you i seem like the typical anti-fanboy. I can tell you right now that i'm not against Apple, especially since all of my computers are Apples. I just don't believe in praising them when they make stupid-ass decisions.

Face it, more and more people who own Apple computers are wanting to play games, especially since we now have access to all the Windows games through bootcamp. Hell, some people might even buy a Mac Pro for just that reason, even if that seems ridiculous to you--that's their choice, however, and you should just be glad that they are still supporting your favorite company by buying their products. These GPU options offered by Apple are subpar and middle-of-the-the road. Granted, Nvidia's topend 8800 cards are going to be replaced in a few months, but Apple should still offer them anyways to the people who want to make their rigs as hardcore game worthy as possible rather than alienating their customers. The Quadro GPU's are just too expensive to consider unless the card is an essential component for your work, so it's not really an option and I'm not sure why you're going on about them so much.

There is nothing stopping Apple from offering better GPU's right now and then upgrading later when the next generation is released.

Sorry but I will have to disagree. I don't know why is it so hard to understand but the Mac Pro is used almost exclusively for Professional use, and that is why it's called a WORKSTATION. Professional Applications (2D and 3D) performance used today is based almost entierly on CPU and Memory performance, and not on graphic card performance. Sure we are heading that way, but as of today, it is not a feasable yet. That's why Apple includes the best CPUs and Memory. I think you should be thankfull that they don't actually include a IGP as standard and gives you a somewhat reasonable graphic card instead. If you go to the Mac Pro main page, you will not see anything related to gaming and for a good reason.

Now, I think you fail to realize that regarding to Computer Games, apple is not focus on that yet (which honestly I don't know why, since the hardware is already here). What you should be whishing for is for Apple to come up with some sort of iMac Pro, focused on gaming, which by the way, its most often considered their "entertaining line/desktop", focused on mail checking, internet browsing, DVD watching, light work load (school work, word, excel, etc). Believe it or not Gaming is part of this category.

 

[gnasher729]

For someone like me who need more than 4Gb of ram and who'll never buy a pc, there is no alternative but to buy a mac pro... Seeing the pricelist for the penryn xeon processors when they were announced last november made me hope for a nice entry level mac pro with two 2,5Ghz (E5420) quadcore xeons...

The price differential is huge with the 2,8Ghz apple is advertising, although of course we won't know what apple is paying...

I am reasonably sure that Apple pays different prices than the ones on that price list, otherwise the MacPro prices don't make sense. The 2.8GHz chip was around $800; if Apple paid that then out of the $2799 that you pay for the standard configuration $1600 would go straight to Intel. Doesn't make sense, especially since Apple wants to make a bit of profit, and the dealer wants to make a bit of profit as well.

 

[Evangelion]

Sorry but I will have to disagree. I don't know why is it so hard to understand but the Mac Pro is used almost exclusively for Professional use, and that is why it's called a WORKSTATION.

Exactly. Now, it's a valid complaint that Apple does not have a suitable machine for gamers. The mythical xMac would be that. But it's utterly stupid to complain that Apple's workstation-lineup is not suitable for gamers.

 

[weckart]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the article, but if it's suggesting that UK folk can buy the 8800 GT as an upgrade for their old (Clovertown) Mac Pro, then I'm not sure that's correct. The 8800 GT's page on the UK store (linked to above) states "It features a PCI Express 2.0 interface for a high-bandwidth connection to the Mac Pro" - which would mean it couldn't work in the older model, non?

Confused (but hopeful) of the UK

PCI-E 2.0 is backwards compatible with PCI-E 1.0

Well, yes. This means you can put a PCI-E 1.0 peripheral card in a PCI-E 2.0 slot. Just like Windows 2000 will run DOS programs.

The reverse does not apply. PCI-E 2.0 cards will not work in a PCI-E 1.0 slot, just like DOS will not run 32 bit Windows programs.

 

[Nugget]

Well, yes. This means you can put a PCI-E 1.0 peripheral card in a PCI-E 2.0 slot. Just like Windows 2000 will run DOS programs.

The reverse does not apply. PCI-E 2.0 cards will not work in a PCI-E 1.0 slot, just like DOS will not run 32 bit Windows programs.

Incorrect. PCIe 2.0 is completely backwards compatible with PCIe v1.x. Both directions. Graphic cards and motherboards designed for v2.0 will be able to work with v1.1 and v1.0, and vice versa. A PCIe 2.0 device in a PCIe 1.x slot will simply not be able to make use of the increased bus bandwidth that PCIe 2.0 allows.

This fact is reinforced by the observation that Apple is now selling a "NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT Graphics Upgrade Kit for Mac Pro" in the Apple Store and does not draw a distinction between first and second generation Mac Pros.

 

[ray_uk]

Yeah a single quad coroe CPU and a 8800GT graphic card is a ideal gaming system, given that you have to pay a bit extra to get it with the worlds best OS.

 

[Nugget]

Yeah a single quad coroe CPU and a 8800GT graphic card is a ideal gaming system, given that you have to pay a bit extra to get it with the worlds best OS.

About the only real complaint I could make is that a gamer might prefer to buy a single (quad core) 3.2GHz machine instead of having to go whole-hog with eight cores in order to get the fastest clockrate. At least for now I think that would be a worthwhile place to save some cash if the option existed.

Beyond that, though, all you can really say is that a Mac Pro used for gaming is excessive. Not inappropriate -- just excessive. Much the same way it's "excessive" to drive to work in a car that can go 140MPH. There's nothing wrong with a bit of excess now and again.

 

[gnasher729]

It just seems silly to make Bluetooth Standard and not wireless. Every cotton picking Mac or PC mag I see in the store has HOW TO WIFI articles in it, each month consistently.

Probably depends on the cost. If having Bluetooth built into each Mac is very cheap compared to having a Bluetooth card then it would make sense. Also depends on how many people would buy Bluetooth: If nobody every bought it, then having it separate doesn't make money for Apple so they might as well give it away for free.

 

[gnasher729]

If you chose the 2.8ghz option to save the $500.00 for the 8 core, which I have thought about doing to save money, what do you think? Is it worth the extra $500 that I would have to "scrape" up to afford or can you upgrade down the road later when the funds were more readily available.

Also, what Apps can utilize the 8 core at this very second? Logic Pro 8? Aperture, Final Cut Express? Are these going to be able to take advantage of the 8 core setup or is it just overkill at this very moment?

Remember you don't need _one_ application to use all eight cores. If you have four applications doing things, and each is using two cores, the eight core machine will be finished twice as fast as the four core.

Not useful for gamers, because a single game will find it hard to use even two cores; on the other hand you could be encoding a dozen DVDs in the background and still play games at full speed if that is what you are doing.

 

[Reach]

I run my own business (Graphic design/video production) from my own home. Hence I have a workstation.

As chance has it, I also spend my free time in my home, which means my workstation is where I spend my freetime.

Are you guys then going to tell me that I should go out and buy a SEPARATE PC just for playing games on those rare occasions that I find the time to do so?

Please don't. Let me (and others) play on our pro-machines, we're not hurting them (or anybody else).

And for those like me that sometimes play on a workstation; just don't complain about it not being built exclusively for gaming. It works fine for games too, but the cash/playability-ratio would be better if you bought something just for playing..

There, now why on earth are all these threads filled with people arguing about games and the Mac Pro?! If you don't play; fine, but let others. If you do play; fine too, but don't complain about it not being made just for your needs.

 

[ray_uk]

Nah, a real hardcore gamer would find a way of overclocking that single 2.8ghz quad core chip al the way to 3.6GHz

 

[thereubster]

Adding an 8800GT adds 5 weeks to the order time in UK!

If I spec up a Mac Pro at the UK Apple store and change the graphics card to an 8800GT the ship time changes from 3 days to 5 weeks! These things are available now I am sure of it so why the delay?
It's funny how all the whiners were b*tching about Apple failing to update the Mac Pro to Harpertown when everyone else had announced updated workstations when in fact Apple end up shipping them first again! You can order from Dell and HP a month ago but you still wont get them till Febuary.
Its pretty clear to me the Apple do have a special relationship with Intel and do get stuff first, so I wish people would stop complaining.....

I'm going to wait to find out if the single quad Mac Pro comes with the same motherboard as the dual quads. If it does I'm ordering one with an 8800GT.
FINALLY!!!!

 

[psycho bob]

Now if Adobe could only get mulit-proc rendering to work on OS X in AE!!! 2-4-8 Doesn't ,matter much when the software doesn't work.

Well unless Apple have fiddled the benchmarks the Adobe AE Nightflight test shows the 8 core model to be 1.9x faster than the previous 2.66 Quad. Looks like a pretty good speed up to me.

 

[fernmeister]

I am not too sure. From my experience in the music and video industry.. I have not seen anyone purchase a Mac Pro for anything other than work-related stuff. I use my mac pro only for music production. I don't bother loading windows on it. My macbook pro has Fusion on it running XP (for Quicken) .. the mac pro has TBs of audio data, virtual instruments, plug-ins, etc. So it really peeves me when I see n00bs with just a lot of money.. buy a mac pro and use it for downloading movies and complain that they don't download faster than if you were using a laptop.

If I wanted to play games, and was a serious gamer.. I'm pretty sure I would buy a PC gaming machine or a PS 3 or something. I guess some people might buy a mac pro for games.. but to me it seems like a rather ridiculous idea to waste the power of such a beast.. on.. games. You know, I don't think that's what Apple thought when they designed this "Hey, what do you think the gamers are going to do when they see this?"

When I think of games, I think of Alienware, PS3, Wii, Xbox 360, etc. When I think of work, massive rendering, production, etc.. I think of the Mac Pro.

That's the way it looks to me as well. I can understand the clamour for a mini-tower more than the desire for a gaming Mac Pro.

Nearly all the Mac Pros and PowerMacs I've seen have been in workplaces - music studios, design studios, offices and the like. By contrast, the gaming machines I see (consoles and gaming PCs) are mostly in living rooms and dens and home "offices."

 

[DGaio]

I run my own business (Graphic design/video production) from my own home. Hence I have a workstation.

As chance has it, I also spend my free time in my home, which means my workstation is where I spend my freetime.

Are you guys then going to tell me that I should go out and buy a SEPARATE PC just for playing games on those rare occasions that I find the time to do so?

Please don't. Let me (and others) play on our pro-machines, we're not hurting them (or anybody else).

And for those like me that sometimes play on a workstation; just don't complain about it not being built exclusively for gaming. It works fine for games too, but the cash/playability-ratio would be better if you bought something just for playing..

There, now why on earth are all these threads filled with people arguing about games and the Mac Pro?! If you don't play; fine, but let others. If you do play; fine too, but don't complain about it not being made just for your needs.

Speaking for myself, I'm not saying you should buy a gaming computer separatly, in fact you don't have to at all, just buy an high-end gaming card, and put it in your Mac Pro and your good to go, althought you'll need Windows OS for that to work (quite honestly if your going to do some serious gaming, OSX isn't the right OS for that anyway).

What I was pointing at is that, above all, the Mac Pro is a professional working computer, and people that are complaining that a MacPro isn't a good gaming machine as is, fail to realize that it is not it's primary goal (which clearly you don't fail to realize )

 

[diamond.g]

The new Mac Pro has TWO X16 slots :

So I was right

Yeah, I caught that and was editing as you were quoting.

But they are not using the Enhanced PCIe 2.0 spec that allows 150wats per 2.0 slot.

The only thing I'm trying to find out is if the 3.0 is the 80w or 120w Penryn?

Anyone know for sure? Calling Apple did no good and the manual doesn't say.

80W

hey guys,

2 PCI Express 2.0 16 lane slots

does that mean we could run dual 8800 GT cards? Is this the long awaited SLI support we had all hoped?

No mention at all on apple's site.. but that's two identical slots.. just one is wider than the other (surrounding space?)

Scott

No SLI support for this chipset. There may be Crossfire support but I wouldn't count on it. Two should work just like how two 7300's should work. As long as Apple is using the reference G92 boards, From my understanding one card can pull about 105 Watts, and that is reference. Faster cards obviously pull more.

 

[Macinposh]

I use my mac pro only for music production. I don't bother loading windows on it.
So it really peeves me when I see n00bs with just a lot of money.. buy a mac pro and use it for downloading movies and complain that they don't download faster than if you were using a laptop

... but to me it seems like a rather ridiculous idea to waste the power of such a beast.. on.. games.

Wow.

No only that I personally think that this kind of posts/attitudes are extremely hypocritical and patronizing, the also suck big time ecologically.

You guys are next to forcing people to buy a second computer for gaming, thus wasting valuable energy,resources and money?
What next,suggest people to buy a second hummer because they cant go to the 7-11 with a RED hummer,but it should be green..


Give people a brake. If they want to use their workstations that they allready own to play some games or watch some porn, it is ok. It´s not that they are making you to do that.
You can be all safe and sound and working with your masterpieces with your Macpros.


Ps. Ordering my 8800GT card,64bit Vista and Leopard tomorrow for some working and pleasure.

 

[Pressure]

Their GPU options still suck you know what.



What's that you say? It's not a gaming machine? It's a workhorse? Oh my...excuse me for wanting my computer for both work and play. I guess that really is asking for too much.

I love Apple's products, but I'm not a blind fanboy; these computers are still lacking in some areas--overpriced Apple memory & medium range GPU options.

The old G80 chip that drives the Geforce 8800GTS 640MB and Geforce 8800GTX/Ultra are End of Life (EOL) and are supposed to be fully replaced by 65nm equivalents in less than two months.

Why should Apple support a product that is not produced anymore?

 

[diamond.g]

The old G80 chip that drives the Geforce 8800GTS 640MB and Geforce 8800GTX/Ultra are End of Life (EOL) and are supposed to be fully replaced by 65nm equivalents in less than two months.

Why should Apple support a product that is not produced anymore?

For the same reason why they supported the EOL X1900XT (not even the 1950, the 1900).

 

[akadmon]

Remember you don't need _one_ application to use all eight cores. If you have four applications doing things, and each is using two cores, the eight core machine will be finished twice as fast as the four core.

Are you telling me that a single core can't be handling more than one task? Because if it can, then (unless that task takes up most of the core's load) your statement about the 8-core finishing twice as fast as the 4-core is incorrect.

 

[Music_Producer]

Wow.

No only that I personally think that this kind of posts/attitudes are extremely hypocritical and patronizing, the also suck big time ecologically.

You guys are next to forcing people to buy a second computer for gaming, thus wasting valuable energy,resources and money?
What next,suggest people to buy a second hummer because they cant go to the 7-11 with a RED hummer,but it should be green..


Give people a brake. If they want to use their workstations that they allready own to play some games or watch some porn, it is ok. It´s not that they are making you to do that.
You can be all safe and sound and working with your masterpieces with your Macpros.


Ps. Ordering my 8800GT card,64bit Vista and Leopard tomorrow for some working and pleasure.

I am NOT forcing anyone to buy a second computer.. sheesh. And it's give people a 'break' not a 'brake'.

Yeah, people can use their workstations to play games. I think I mentioned that some people do that, but it's idiotic to assume that buying a mac pro means it will be great for games. All I see here is people complain about a weak graphics card - that just blows me away.

And quit the ridiculous analogy.. seriously. And how the bloody hell was my post hypocritical? I posted what I do. I clearly mentioned that I am NOT a gamer. Read first, then attack.