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It looks like the PCIe SSD is removable/replaceable.

Hopefully someone will make an aftermarket PCIe SSD available. This would be a popular upgrade item.

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Although things will change going forward, right now (in a cursory search) aftermarket SSD drives (general, not nMP compatible) seem to be limited to 1 GB and more expensive than what we expect the upgrade to be.

For sizes beyond that, I can't see manufacturers limiting themselves to the nMP market. Thunderbolt seems to be the way to go.

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It'll either epically fail or completely change the industry. I understand the arguments on both sides, but as usual, no one really knows.

Time is the only thing that will make or break this nMP.

Chances are it won't do either. Workstations are a tiny niche part of the marketplace. If it fails, we'll never know - they'll just stop development and stop selling it a few years from now (like we thought was happening with the old Mac Pro).

It's not going to sell in bucket loads, although it will sell better than it would if it looked like a butt-ugly Dell workstation. I can't see that side of the market putting in the R&D to develop something similar.
 
And yet they are the ONLY option for a home user.

I mean have you even noticed that Thunderbolt products are RIDICULOUSLY expensive? Expect to pay 2-3x as much for the same hard drive running at the same speed with a Thunderbolt connector instead of USB3. Yes, the extreme high-end in drives are nice on Thunderbolt, but everything else works just fine on USB3 and costs a hell of a lot less.

Thunderbolt devices are priced for the professional user and not consumers. Which typically hook up to professional equipment.

And no iMacs aren't a good solution. They are garbage. They have become more and more of a PITA to upgrade ANYTHING in them and replacing an entire computer to get a better hard drive or stringing out tons of external CRAP on my desk isn't a great solution.

Because most all-in-one computers ( PC's included ) most are not much user upgradable to begin with, perhaps besides memory.


Now I said I want a HOME box (i.e. the mythical XMac), but not a Pro box, but there's a whole thread on Pro machines and why this thing is a total STINKER for them too. Yeah, it's probably a wet dream for small facility people using Final Cut X, but from what I've read, most of the REAL Pros out there have a lot of existing equipment and this thing isn't designed to accommodate them at all. Apple might as well have sent them a letter telling them to move to Windows. And so sorry, but your total lack of argument to support this massively overpriced POS completely underwhelms me.

We are in the post-PC era. Home-user box desktop computers are getting smaller everyday. You think emachines are hard to come by, the desktop power user is even smaller then that. Most people get by on smartphones/Tablets or even a laptop.

There is not enough money in the home/power user. What, perhaps maybe a half a percent?!?

I mean have you even noticed that Thunderbolt products are RIDICULOUSLY expensive?

Not everything. A Blackmagic HDMI/SDI thunderbolt adapter is $145.00. A Blackmagic PCIe HDMI is $200.00 an SDI version is 280.00. So its actually cheaper. An exception to the rule perhaps.
 
Although things will change going forward, right now (in a cursory search) aftermarket SSD drives (general, not nMP compatible) seem to be limited to 1 GB and more expensive than what we expect the upgrade to be.

Hmm, interesting. It will be odd to see an Apple storage or RAM upgrade that competes well with buying the stuff elsewhere. Really looking forward to seeing the official component prices.
 
Heh. I know that I don't speak for anyone else but in my case I already have a cabled Apple keyboard, a wireless one, a Magic Mouse, a Magic Trackpad, a Wacom tablet, and two regular wireless mice. Last thing I need is a computer to come with more of that stuff. :D

I'm so used to having keyboard and mouse with it...man talk about apple being cheap..LOL :D
 
And yet they are the ONLY option for a home user.

Well no they are the only option for you. 95% of public / home users don't care about upgrading any computer. Nor even looking beyond the Screensaver in settings. They want a good enough machine for the next 3 or so years.

My parents have been using an bottom spec iMac since 2008 ( geek bench = 1099) and it's still boot in less than a minute and even plays all the games they buy on the App Store. It' snot going to run much 3d high end games or Run FCPx with many layers. But he edits all his home vids happily... and even current a mac mini is over 12x as fast! Actually the current Mini faster than my 8core mac pro in every test ( bar some 3d tests the 285gtx beats it on. )

All this Spec chasing is utterly irrelevant to them and most of the population for a home computer - if they can Skype their kids They are happy. It's like witchcraft.

As for USB3 to thunderbolt... It has 4 usb3 ports built... just hub from that if you need to? Why would you want a TB to USB?


I am not saying in any way you are wrong. An upper Midrange mac could be great. But it's not going to happen just like the those horrible years when they licences Macintosh OS7 to other companies which were as horrible as every Hackingtosh I've seen... and I mean the stability and reliability - not the fact they were in beige boxes.
 
an alternate theory (one less funny than them simply not fitting in the box) has to do with the price..

with the base quad, we've already seen them removing one stick of ram (as in- there is one empty slot if you buy the entry model).. i can't really think of any other reason as to why they'd do that other than trying to hit the target price of $2999.99.. (well, maybe they've done that to make the 6core config appear more attractive but using 1stick of ram in that game still seems odd (to me))

i imagine the keyboard/mouse also suffered this same fate as the ram.. if those were packaged in then the price people see at first click would be $3099.99 (or something).. they need the '2' in there.

if this theory is true...it would be the saddest time every for apple.
 
Hmm, interesting. It will be odd to see an Apple storage or RAM upgrade that competes well with buying the stuff elsewhere. Really looking forward to seeing the official component prices.

Don't forget the SSD in the MP is PCie and 1200Mb/s - fastest Sata SSDs are about 500- 540Mb/s

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Although things will change going forward, right now (in a cursory search) aftermarket SSD drives (general, not nMP compatible) seem to be limited to 1 GB and more expensive than what we expect the upgrade to be.

For sizes beyond that, I can't see manufacturers limiting themselves to the nMP market. Thunderbolt seems to be the way to go.

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Chances are it won't do either. Workstations are a tiny niche part of the marketplace. If it fails, we'll never know - they'll just stop development and stop selling it a few years from now (like we thought was happening with the old Mac Pro).

It's not going to sell in bucket loads, although it will sell better than it would if it looked like a butt-ugly Dell workstation. I can't see that side of the market putting in the R&D to develop something similar.

One thing people are forgetting is how little power this takes now. 450W aginst over a 1200 in some mac pros now... will add up a lot to studios... though they will have to turn the heat up a bit now... my 2008 heats my office on it's own! and it's -2c at the moment.
 
Well no they are the only option for you.

Word. I see on these boards what seems to be an epidemic of people asserting their personal preferences as though they were applicable generally. The people who actually design and build these machines, as opposed to the peanut gallery griping because they didn't get their personal way, spent a great deal of time and expertise deciding what their target market is and how best to address it.

If that doesn't fit you, personally? Tough rocks. You don't speak for anyone but yourself and you certainly don't speak for me or even for the majority of Apple users. I've been especially amused by some of the posts presuming to define for me (as a reader) what a "real pro" is in this context. I'm so glad I have such people out there to keep me from deluding myself that I might be one. :cool:

The empty CPU bay in my workbench, and my USB3 hub full of monster hard drives, are eagerly awaiting my new nMP so I can kick my production into high gear. Thank you.

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Don't forget the SSD in the MP is PCie and 1200Mb/s - fastest Sata SSDs are about 500- 540Mb/s

Point taken, which increases my surprise should the Apple-installed storage options come in cheaper than (or comparable to) comparably-sized consumer SSDs.
 
if this theory is true...it would be the saddest time every for apple.

Nah. Just won't fit in the box.. And to hit that magic price point I am sure. + you have a fair few mouse / trackpad and keyboard options now would make pre-packaging the stock ones a pain...
Mac Pro 4 Core + Mouse + Wireless
Mac Pro 6 Core + trackpad + Wired
The Variations would be pretty high... just sell the separate retail items.

I really want a full number pad wireless keyboard with backlighting.... a new shiny Black would be nice. too :)
 
Enlighten me, instead of writing a generic condescending statement that has no meaning other than ad hominem attack.

Those very same people have been making do with the vary devices I've mentioned for the past 2-3 years. I don't see how it shows "how little" I know.
I see, so you're the spokesman for single people businesses and you know what they need.

Sorry I interrupted your condescending ad hominem attack.
 
Mac Pro 4 Core + Mouse + Wireless
Mac Pro 6 Core + trackpad + Wired
The Variations would be pretty high... just sell the separate retail items.

Indeed. Also, at the risk of presuming to speak for other "pros" out there, there might be a perception that we already have equipped ourselves with our favored interface devices so (as I posted earlier concerning my personal view on this) why be forced to accept peripherals that might just stay in the box and be wasted? I, personally, will be moving my current desktop to become a headless render node so will be using my existing keyboard, Wacom and mouse.

I really want a full number pad wireless keyboard with backlighting.... a new shiny Black would be nice. too :)

Oh, that would be sweet, indeed. :cool:
 
Building a hackintosh is way better than this.

I'd rather be earning money and going out thanks ;)

The Number 1 reason I ditched Windoze was how much time it ended up sapping keeping the thing running and fighting trojans and viruses.

The last thing I want to do is spend ANY time hacking settings etc. Hows that making me any money?

I am happy that some people see this a hobby and can get some awesome machines, but
1. Technically it's illegal / against T&C so you can never be using the OS legally and therefore wouldn't use it in a business environment.
2. You will never get the same sort of stability - Every Hackintosh I've been forced to use in dodgy companies always break and no one knows how to fix them.
3. A lot of things in the OS end up not being supported at all like power nap / speedstep / sleep etc.
4. There are no working Xeon Hackintoshes as far as I can tell only i3-7s - which in regards to the Mac Pro... makes this entire argument completely Mute.
 
The Number 1 reason I ditched Windoze was how much time it ended up sapping keeping the thing running and fighting trojans and viruses.

The last thing I want to do is spend ANY time hacking settings etc. Hows that making me any money?

I feel like I'm signing on to be your cheerleader, but I'm in total agreement with this post. When my shop ran Microsoft products I had to worry about things like what components were inside the box, would they play nicely with each other, and the inevitable driver quirks. Even when I bought an expensive, boutique "hand crafted" PC I ended up having odd hard drive behavior and had to waste time researching why the driver was flakey and how to get and install an older one that was supposed to "fix" it.

I consider every minute that a creative spends doing IT chores to be wasted, unproductive time. When I switched to (legitimate) Apple systems I was rewarded with hardware components that were not bought in assorted lots from the lowest bidder, and software designed specifically to run on them.

And I've said it before: I consider "hackintoshes" to be unethical. Maybe it's part and parcel of over 23 years in uniform, but I value ethics highly and have no patience for piracy or other illegal activities. Not in my shop.
 
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Nah. Just won't fit in the box.. And to hit that magic price point I am sure. + you have a fair few mouse / trackpad and keyboard options now would make pre-packaging the stock ones a pain...
Mac Pro 4 Core + Mouse + Wireless
Mac Pro 6 Core + trackpad + Wired
The Variations would be pretty high... just sell the separate retail items.

I really want a full number pad wireless keyboard with backlighting.... a new shiny Black would be nice. too :)

Agree. :p

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Man...that's alot of money for a computer. I mean, I'm all for paying for quality, but it's honestly kind of hard to imagine getting ten grand out of a desktop...

it's cheap if you doing this as a "pro" or "professional."
 
Biggest downside now is just having more cables running out of the back of the new Mac Pro and to these external boxes/devices. I think much of that can be mitigated, depending on who comes up with clever 3rd. party enclosures. I've said for months now, someone should do a drive expansion bay that's a box with a circular indent on top to sit the Mac Pro itself in. It would look like the cylinder on a square pedestal of some sort and make it appear like one unit!
a pro setup means cables! There are different levels of Pro. The whole cables argument is nonsense
 
All this griping about cost of these is nuts. All decent workstation cost this sort of price - You can Price up a Boxx to nearly $50K - But If you have to question the price you just plain don't need it at all. Oh and it's tax deductible.

Well, A Taxi Driver friend of mine bought a taxi the other day for $40K - he didn't bat an eyelid. It's his livelihood. Same with this.

My last Mac Pro cos me £6K but I bought a PC in 2003 that cost me £19K

But the software Licences on some of the stuff I need like Nuke and Maya etc add up to cost more than the machine.

I agreed. I think my FX was about $7000 back 20 years ago.

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I feel like I'm signing on to be your cheerleader, but I'm in total agreement with this post. When my shop ran Microsoft products I had to worry about things like what components were inside the box, would they play nicely with each other, and the inevitable driver quirks. Even when I bought an expensive, boutique "hand crafted" PC I ended up having odd hard drive behavior and had to waste time researching why the driver was flakey and how to get and install an older one that was supposed to "fix" it.

I consider every minute that a creative spends doing IT chores to be wasted, unproductive time. When I switched to (legitimate) Apple systems I was rewarded with hardware components that were not bought in assorted lots from the lowest bidder, and software designed specifically to run on them.

And I've said it before: I consider "hackintoshes" to be unethical. Maybe it's part and parcel of over 23 years in uniform, but I value ethics highly and have no patience for piracy or other illegal activities. Not in my shop.


Wow, well said.
 
I am curious. What program are you using to render the individual photos into a time-lapse? It seems to me that such a project shouldn't take that long if the program is properly optimized.

The project I referenced was a 12 hour time lapse of the Asiana Airways Jet being dismantled at SFO. The images were RAW, and the images had to be cropped in order to fill the screen. In addition, the images required some enhancements since they were shot from dusk to dawn.

Lightroom and After Effects were the programs utilized.
 
To clarify, I'm not saying that professionals can make do with slower machines. I understand why you would need a faster machine and why you would need a Mac Pro. I'm saying that if you are truly a professional, this price should be manageable. I think the main complaint comes from semi-professionals that don't have enough business to upgrade to a Mac Pro. I think THOSE people can make do with the PC/iMac/Mac Mini alternatives.

I see, so you're the spokesman for single people businesses and you know what they need.

Sorry I interrupted your condescending ad hominem attack.

I don't see how I attacked you in my comment as it was a statement based on my observations. Maybe you don't understand what condescending or ad hominem argument means. Either way, I'm no going to continue this with you because you seem to have nothing to back yourself up. I don't feel like arguing with a child (this is an ad hominem).

To the rest of you, that did speak up for professionals, thanks for the clarification, but it seems like you CAN afford these machines as your businesses will pay them off, so again, I don't see any problem with Apple pricing this machine the way they did.

I don't (yet) own a Mac Pro, hence my need to be making do with what I have. The number one benefit to me will be more than four cores per machine, as well as a machine that doesn't force me into a specific display (such as the iMac). I already have a desk full of displays that serve me well and I don't intend to have to remove one to make room. The new Minis are fun little beasts and I have a quad core "server" model working as a render node but, again, only four cores limits it. Some of my recent 3d animation work has used models approaching a million polygons, plus dynamic fur that moves in the wind and by gravity. Current render times are becoming an issue and I intend by adding a nMP with at least six very fast cores to help bring that down.

Part of making do has been financial, and I'm at that point now where I'm on the verge of some fairly lucrative animation gigs but my hardware is holding me back. I expect the nMP to pay for itself in decent time.

As to the other alternatives, I will never run a "hackintosh." Apart from the hassle, risk and needing to invest extra time in care and feeding of such, I consider them to be unethical. I used to use Windows-based workstations but got fed up not only with the way Windows works (I cut my teeth on Unix, and OS X is basically *nix with a sexy GUI), but also dealing with driver issues and other incompatibilities with my software suite. At my last "day job" I was moved into an all-Mac lab, fell in love with the environment, and vowed never to go back. It's a walled garden, to be sure, but I can always rely on what's going to be inside and how it will work with the software and drivers. Above all else, I want my tools to "just work" with minimal need for care and feeding, and thus far Apple has stepped up to that.

So the new Mac Pro will work for you at this price because it caters to your needs and your business can pay for it. Then I hope you enjoy your new machine!

Ahem... I have been working with a 2008 iMac. My photography/video business has increased significantly so that instead of a great part time job, it's morphed into a full time gig. When I'm rendering 4500 individual photos into a time-lapse, it takes time. A lot of time with my current set up. When I'm editing in 4k video, it takes more time. I'd rather have the job out the door faster, especially when dead lines are looming, than waiting for the project to finalize.

So yes, although I've been making do for the past 2-3 years, it's time to step up to a powerful system and the nMP appears to be just what I'm looking for.

So, you would say that your business can pay for this new Mac Pro?
 
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One thing people are forgetting is how little power this takes now. 450W aginst over a 1200 in some mac pros now... will add up a lot to studios...
The "little power" is directly connected to the lack of internal expansion. With only one drive and a graphic card, the older MP's would probably also stay below 450W.

If you externally attach the same amount of drives and other expansions to the nMP that have been possible internally with former MacPro revisions, you will probably see power consumption of the nMP being similar to that of the old boxes (granted - the performance/Watt ratio should be better with the nMP).
 
So you're saying I should throw out a perfectly fine working red rocket card, fiber card, and deck link and purchase whole new self-contained unit if each if a third party manufacturer makes a thunderbolt case for it? Well that only adds an extra $3-5k to the cost of a new Mac Pro.

No, I'm saying that you should leave them all plugged into your perfectly fine working Classic Mac Pro, and only think about moving to a nMP when you're also ready to switch to new hardware or re-think your workflow.

As I said, the main failure of the new Mac Pro is not the concept itself, but that Apple has let the old Mac Pro wither and die before launching the new one, so that people like you see it as a 'forced upgrade' and start costing it up as a drop-in replacement for existing systems rather than a new approach to be explored at the right time.

Ideally, the two lines should have run in parallel for a year or two (as with the MacBook Pros).

An Avid user with Adobe CC could switch to a comparable PC for about $5-$10k less since software licenses could be transferred free, and existing hardware could still be used in a new box.

I think the problem is that users were going to do that anyway unless Apple went into the commodity PC hardware business to compete with Dell, HP et. al. (which doesn't seem to be making much money for Dell or HP at the moment).

If you need a big box 'o' slots then going PC has been the sensible thing to do for the last several years. If you're running Avid and Adobe CC then you're probably not going to notice whether you're running it on OS X or Windows.

Apple got their lead in the creative professional market back in the good old bad old days when Windows was a crappy DOS shell running on half-baked 8-bit-dressed-as-32 processors. That's not true any more.
 
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