Mac Pro refresh - how soon after Macworld?

[frimple]

Hmmm, I've decided to go for it. Will be making my order at lunch. There's no major reason to wait from the looks of it.

Wish me luck with my new MP!

Thanks for all your advice,

Jasper.

Don't mean to throw a wrench in your plans, however if you don't need a Mac Pro for current business needs here are my thoughts (I've posted this before but the thread got lost to eternity I think...).

There are a lot of things that people miss when they're talking about what the pros/cons are. First off you have to understand that not only is it a new processor architecture but it's a new socket as well. In 2 years they won't be making any more new LGA 771 processors that you can pop in your mac pro, but I'm betting there will be new LGA 1366 procs coming out for quite a while.

Second is memory. The current MP uses the FB-DIMM modules which are fine, but they're also fast becoming an outdated technology that vendors will support but not develop new products for. The new processors will not only have the on-board memory controller (no more northbridge!) but also it will be DDR3 which is on the roadmap of those said vendors. Also, due to a limitation (I believe with the hardware) the memory limit is 32 GB. That may seem excessive now but I also remember in '92 4 MB of memory being outrageous.

Third is hard drive bays (supported, I'm not talking about the extra 2 SATA ports that are available). 4 drives was great a few years ago, but that too is quickly becoming suspicious (especially if you're looking to use a pair of SSD drives in RAID 0 and an internal storage solution in addition to NAS). And a new RAID card?? Maybe that's asking for too much.

Everyone's right I think when they say that the new boxes won't be that much faster. I think there will be a difference, but come on, current Mac Pros are incredible! Now I'd say that if you can purchase the mac and make enough money to justify buying it now then it wouldn't be a bad decision to buy one now. Keep in mind that while re-sell value won't plummet it's most certainly going to go down between 5-10%.

 

[mchalebk]

As long as it comes out by the end of Feb I should be okay.

That's not very likely. It's been reported that the processor that Apple is expected to use in the next MacPro will be available in the first quarter of 2009, which means sometime in the Jan-Mar time frame. If the same timeline holds as for the last revision (8 weeks from processor availability to announcement of MacPro), the next MacPro probably won't be announced until March at the earliest and April or May are just as likely.

I hope I'm wrong and that it does come out in January or February, but it just doesn't look feasible.

 

[Cromulent]

That's not very likely. It's been reported that the processor that Apple is expected to use in the next MacPro will be available in the first quarter of 2009, which means sometime in the Jan-Mar time frame. If the same timeline holds as for the last revision (8 weeks from processor availability to announcement of MacPro), the next MacPro probably won't be announced until March at the earliest and April or May are just as likely.

I hope I'm wrong and that it does come out in January or February, but it just doesn't look feasible.

Being an optimist I'm choosing to believe that first quarter means beginning of January .

I'm prepared to be disappointed though.

 

[m1stake]

Intel is releasing them in the first quarter, but knowing Apple they'll take their sweet time with getting a product out.

 

[Roy]

Being an optimist I'm choosing to believe that first quarter means beginning of January .

I'm prepared to be disappointed though.

Kind of like a car dealer saying he will give you $12K to $15K trade-in on your car. You hear $15K and the dealers hears himself saying $12K.

 

[Sesshi]

Other makers - including the mainstream makers of better workstations than Apple - are prepping for a Q1 release of their i7 workstations, not just Apple. I'm not sure whether Apple would get the jump on other makers this time around with a dual-socket i7 release, but even then it will be pretty soon after the January Meeting of the Deluded Apple Cultists, if not announced for availability at the conference.

 

[m1stake]

Who cares what other makers do? This is Apple remember?

As far as the convention of blind apple cultists, marketing is the name of the game, and Apple knows how to play just like all the other big(ger) boys. Can't blame them for wanting to make money.

 

[BarneysPosse]

Maybe a dumb and/or irrelevant question but are the new MP's gonna have the Mini-DisplayPort? I'd imagine so since I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Apple is going to integrate into all future notebooks/desktops.

 

[m1stake]

Maybe a dumb and/or irrelevant question but are the new MP's gonna have the Mini-DisplayPort? I'd imagine so since I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Apple is going to integrate into all future notebooks/desktops.

No one really knows. Jobs said they'd be using mini DP on all their future Macs, but it's not clear if he meant DP in general or what. The ADC suggests that everything will in fact be mini DP, however.

 

[Cromulent]

Other makers - including the mainstream makers of better workstations than Apple - are prepping for a Q1 release of their i7 workstations, not just Apple. I'm not sure whether Apple would get the jump on other makers this time around with a dual-socket i7 release, but even then it will be pretty soon after the January Meeting of the Deluded Apple Cultists, if not announced for availability at the conference.

Generally speaking the Mac Pro tends to be cheaper than other manufacturers similarly specified workstations which is an important consideration for me.

 

[Sonic]

Well my 2x2.8 is on it's way. I'm sure it will be more than enough for my needs for the next few years. Weighing it all up, one other concern I had was the hyperthreading has caused issues with audio software in the past and I couldn't risk being a Rev.A tester for that. No buyer's remorse, can't wait to get going!

 

[Bubba Satori]

A three thousand dollar base model? No one would buy it.

Yep.

The base model for a single quad core should be around $1,800. And please, Apple, more pro video card choices than one $2,500 Quadro. I mean really, AMD and Nvidia offer full lines of Quadros and FirePros starting at around $300.

 

[Tallest Skil]

Yep.

The base model for a single quad core should be around $1,800. And please, Apple, more pro video card choices than one $2,500 Quadro. I mean really, AMD and Nvidia offer full lines of Quadros and FirePros starting at around $300.

But Apple, do make sure to offer the Quadro 5800. FOUR GIGS of dedicated video RAM. FOUR. GIGS. I want that card.

 

[chromatronic]

Well my 2x2.8 is on it's way. I'm sure it will be more than enough for my needs for the next few years. Weighing it all up, one other concern I had was the hyperthreading has caused issues with audio software in the past and I couldn't risk being a Rev.A tester for that. No buyer's remorse, can't wait to get going!

Thanks for that info about hyperthreading and music ^_^
I will use my mac pro almost only to do music with lots of virtual instruments so its important...
Then i think really its ok for me to get the current one, as i can also have it cheaper...

Rev A is a little dangerous even with apple and mac pro...
The current mac pro is not rev a and really i dont read much bad things abougt it... but rev a had many stories... and smell lol

 

[Umbongo]

Yep.
And please, Apple, more pro video card choices than one $2,500 Quadro. I mean really, AMD and Nvidia offer full lines of Quadros and FirePros starting at around $300.

Well the issue here is that GeForce and Radeon cards will out perform the lower Quadro and FirePros because there are no optimized drivers like there are for Windows. Of course they could make optimized drivers, but I doubt it makes sense to do so as there are so few DDC, CAD and CAM apps on OSX compared to Windows and Apple can just optimize for the consumer cards anyway.

The only Pro cards that give better performance under OSX are those loaded with a lot of memory. Hence Apple moving from the 4500 to the 5600 (the 4600 would have been out performed by the 8800GT). They could back go down to the 4800 next time, but I expect we will see the 5800 for a $2,999 add on price.

 

[iMacmatician]

I would think March at the earliest, WWDC at the latest. It pays to be a bit pessimistic with release dates.

 

[mr. who?]

My concern is similar to a few others in this thread.

I run a recording studio, and I currently have a PowerMac G5. I'm really in need of an upgrade, and was contemplating waiting for the new hw refresh in early 2009 (hopefully). I would really like to get a mac pro to have more speed and power, but I have decided to go with a current model mac pro before the end of the year.

If I could tell any significant advantage to waiting, I would, but the current models have two pros that are good enough for me: 1. 3rd party vendors are (for the most part) caught up with the current hw architecture; and 2. the specs are pretty darn good for what I do. Heck I've been able to get by with a powermac g5 until now.

The current mac pro model presents the least amount of risk - could be that hw vendors are behind the 8-ball playing catch up because of hw changes like some have been in the past, and that's a risk I can't take. So, now is as good a time as any.

 

[Sesshi]

No one really knows. Jobs said they'd be using mini DP on all their future Macs, but it's not clear if he meant DP in general or what. The ADC suggests that everything will in fact be mini DP, however.

Highly unlikely, as off-the-shelf cards have/will have displayport. It is more likely that you will be able to buy an adapter - and even more likely that the refreshed general-purpose displays will have standard displayport.

Generally speaking the Mac Pro tends to be cheaper than other manufacturers similarly specified workstations which is an important consideration for me.

I suppose it depends on what you're willing to trade for cheap. The Pro - as the least capable, least reliable and least supported dual-Xeon 'pro' machine - should be cheaper.

 

[Tallest Skil]

The Pro - as the least capable, least reliable...

Um...?

 

[chromatronic]

My concern is similar to a few others in this thread.

I run a recording studio, and I currently have a PowerMac G5. I'm really in need of an upgrade, and was contemplating waiting for the new hw refresh in early 2009 (hopefully).

If I could tell any significant advantage to waiting, I would, but the current models have two pros that are good enough for me: 1. 3rd party vendors are (for the most part) caught up with the current hw architecture; and 2. the specs are pretty darn good for what I do. Heck I've been able to get by with a powermac g5 until now..

And benchmark say i7 is 10% better and sometimes 40% better but the time its 40% is for task like rendering video, or rendering 3D... task that are not REAL TIME things like music.
More like "OFF LINE BOUNCE" type of things things whenre the computer know what is coming next and do it other and other...
i feel for real time music we will get the 10% not the 40...

 

[bigbird]

What with the big "R" word, I'm sure Apple is in no hurry to put out a more expensive showcase tower. Most companies that rely on MP's for production and productivity will be in no financial condition to invest those big $ if what they have now is working for them. Who knows, even Apple may be rocking from recession and have to slow down new product release and development.
Not many individuals buy MP's for surfing, home photo and video editing, and word processing. They buy iMacs. It's publishing, advertising, and DVD authoring businesses (both large and small) that need the MP's power. Education, research, and government rely on MP's as well. With everyone needing to trim budgets, new MP's may be the first item to be slashed. It's a lot cheaper to churn out today's model of MP for another 6-12 months than engineer and produce a brand new platform.
Of course I could be totally wrong and be eating crow in less than 2 months. We'll see soon enough.

 

[Umbongo]

What with the big "R" word, I'm sure Apple is in no hurry to put out a more expensive showcase tower. Most companies that rely on MP's for production and productivity will be in no financial condition to invest those big $ if what they have now is working for them. Who knows, even Apple may be rocking from recession and have to slow down new product release and development.
Not many individuals buy MP's for surfing, home photo and video editing, and word processing. They buy iMacs. It's publishing, advertising, and DVD authoring businesses (both large and small) that need the MP's power. Education, research, and government rely on MP's as well. With everyone needing to trim budgets, new MP's may be the first item to be slashed. It's a lot cheaper to churn out today's model of MP for another 6-12 months than engineer and produce a brand new platform.
Of course I could be totally wrong and be eating crow in less than 2 months. We'll see soon enough.

Apple's financial position should mean that things like that suggest shouldn't happen. The Mac Pro is nothing special really, they will likely continue to come out a couple of months after major hardware changes to Intel's workstation platform and this forum will be discussing, waiting and criticizing months (years) before that happens.

 

[m1stake]

Highly unlikely, as off-the-shelf cards have/will have displayport. It is more likely that you will be able to buy an adapter - and even more likely that the refreshed general-purpose displays will have standard displayport.

I guess it doesn't go without saying.

It would be pretty silly to have a screen that works solely with the MB. Of course, having two 24" screens with different plugs is almost as silly, and making people buy an adapter that is a requirement is the silliest.

How unlike Apple.

 

[Sesshi]

Um...?

Exactly what I said. The Pro is the least capable (very limited accessories to maximise the utility of the dual Xeons, limited expansion capability), least reliable (in my experience - with a large number of Pros, HP xw's and Dell Precisions) and least supported (compared with the paid-for support of Dell and HP) machine in it's class among 'Tier 1' manufacturers.

It is, however, the best looking. I could also add 'least competently engineered' but that would be slightly redundant since it is mainly that which contributes to the comparative lack of reliability.

 

[Cromulent]

Exactly what I said. The Pro is the least capable (very limited accessories to maximise the utility of the dual Xeons, limited expansion capability), least reliable (in my experience - with a large number of Pros, HP xw's and Dell Precisions) and least supported (compared with the paid-for support of Dell and HP) machine in it's class among 'Tier 1' manufacturers.

It is, however, the best looking. I could also add 'least competently engineered' but that would be slightly redundant since it is mainly that which contributes to the comparative lack of reliability.

A need to run OS X kind of limits the options available , and before anyone says it - no, Linux is not good enough.

Still I'd just be happy with 2 more PCI-Express slots and more video card options in the mid range (high level consumer gear rather than low end professional video cards).