Mac Pro To Get Dual Optical Drive Slots?

[Evangelion]

Sometimes I have the impression that MR members don't really feel the market, and want a mini-tower just for the sake of it...for 99% of the world, what must be expanded is RAM and perhaps HD, nothing else.

I can actually see quite a few people wanting a minitower-Mac. I can actually see quite a few people already owning a monitor, yet wanting something more powerful than Mac Mini or iMac, while not paying the premium of PowerMac.

What else is NOT there? You have BT, FW, USB

Good for ading external devices, but not internal

good GPU

What is? That underclocked X1600 or that integrated Intel-thingy?

apart from a TINY FEW specialized boards (which should be used by MacPro target users anyway)

Those "MacPro targer users" would be the MacPro Mini target-users as well. MacPro could be the real powerformance-powerhouse for the hi-end pro's. But not everyone needs that kind of power, so they could have something a bit less for less money. Do you suggest that tose users would have to pay for something that they don't need, or they should pay for something that does not satisfy their needs?

You are basically telling that most users would be served just fine by MacPro or iMac. Well, by that same logic, most users would be served just fine by just iMac or Mac Mini, why have a MacPro at all?

Not only has its stock tanked, but also its inventory levels (gone up) and profitability. Dell just announced, for instance, that it will finish the ridiculous mail-in rebates, as they create so much confusion in the market. That's why Apple is so great...they keep it simple.

And having one additional product would not mean that their product-line would be "confusing". They would have two lines of laptops, two lines of pro-desktops and two lines of consumer-desktops. Are consumers confused because the have to choose between two desktop-offerings? Are pro's dumber than consumers, because they would apparently be "confused" by two desktop-products?

A Mini Tower is the modern equivalent of a Cube

Cube failed because it offered less that PowerMac did, while costing more. Minitower would offer less, but it would also cost less.

release a cheapo lower-end MacPro and you are set to go

But that cheapo MacPro might not sit well with those better MacPros. If the MacPros are all quads, then offering a dual in the low-end would not make sense. Either they use single Woodcrest, which wouldn't make any sense. Or they offered a Conroe, which needs different motherboard and different RAM than rest of the lineup would. If MacPro's use Conroes, then they could offer a "cheap" MacPro. But in that case those MacPro "workstations" would be seriously lame when compared to real workstations from other companies that would offer quads. Other OEM's would be offering Conroes to gamers and enthusiast, while offering Woodcrests to Pro's. Apple would be using those gamer/enthusiast-CPU's in their pro-machines. Not good.

EDIT: In addition: what is the MacPro has features that are not so cheap to implement? I already mentioned hot-swappable hard-drives. THings like that would make "el cheapo" MacPro difficult to do.

 

[Paulius]

This is really a shame. The prices should have been lower - and the dual-slot should be an option (people like me even RARELY use a CDs or DVDs, two slots would be a waste of money).

I knew some friends who wanted to get a Mac, but now they can't. Why can't Apple make some usual $1000 desktop PC. Not a mac mini with a small HDD and integrated graphic card. And not an iMac as some people have their own monitors.

Gosh, idiots!

 

[Evangelion]

This is really a shame. The prices should have been lower - and the dual-slot should be an option (people like me even RARELY use a CDs or DVDs, two slots would be a waste of money).

I knew some friends who wanted to get a Mac, but now they can't. Why can't Apple make some usual $1000 desktop PC. Not a mac mini with a small HDD and integrated graphic card. And not an iMac as some people have their own monitors.

Gosh, idiots!

Relax, these are just rumours. About 95% of rumours are wrong anyway . Just wait for the WWDC.

 

[KREX725]

Relax, these are just rumours. About 95% of rumours are wrong anyway . Just wait for the WWDC.

It's always intrigued me over the years at how upset we sometimes get on these boards over some hypothetical product or rumored set of system specs, when we all know how often the rumors are wrong.

Sometimes I also wonder if Apple themselves aren't releasing some of these specs (nearly a month early in this case) to gauge the responses of the hardcore. Then they can tweak this or that to make it more appealing when the real product is released.

 

[Paulius]

Relax, these are just rumours. About 95% of rumours are wrong anyway . Just wait for the WWDC.

Yes, but this really seems like the dirrection Apple is willing to take. The Mac Pro, just like the PowerMac, is made for profesionnals.

What I hate is that Apple refuses to releasy anything similar to the PC. Instead of releasing a tower, their solution is the iMac and the Mac mini. I hope their ideology changes with Intel.

I also wanted the Mac Pro costs to be lower simply because Intel is cheaper than the PowerPC. And Apple is known to start using cheap hardware in their Intel macs.

 

[AidenShaw]

If it's not Pro, then it's...

... MacPro Mini and MacPro ...

Clearly, the new form-factor 64-bit dual-core Conroe mini-tower/pizzabox
will be called the Mac Amateur !!

 

[cgc]

I'm sorry, but are you stupid & completely oblivious to the rest of the computing world? 99% of cases have their PSU's at the top, including full tower cases which are a hell of a lot taller than the Powermac. Why is everybody so worried about tipping? I find it hilarious that people think this. Go into any local computer, electronics store, they are ALL at the top. Other than the high-end cases you order seperately. Let's please drop this, it makes Macrumors look like Macmorons. People worrying about the power cord bending too much? Hahaha, whatever. The next best joke was people worrying about the rumored Magnesium iPods catching fire hahaha. It's called an alloy composition of different metals. Plus, using any logical reasoning do you think Apple or any company for that matter would put a product in a highly flammable case? Or in this case make the new tower 4ft tall with a 20lb PSU at the top and the case only being 6" wide?

Sorry, rant over.

EDIT: By 'you' I do not mean user cgc, by 'you' I mean the users that have brought this up. Sorry for singling you out cgc.

How could this not be directed at me when you quote me? My background is electronics repair (specifically regional satellite communications terminals) and the PSUs I deal with are quite a bit heavier than computer PSUs. However, there is absolutely no reason to be so spiteful and angry when replying to another's post.

 

[cgc]

What strikes me is there are now a lot of people who are interested in a Mid-Tower Mac. When the Intel switch was announced, there were a few of us behind this move, others were dead set against it, complaining that the range would get too complicated and Apple like to keep their ranges small and simple.

The Apple of late has been good about leaving one lower-end tower at a reasonable pricepoint to allow people who simply want expandability to get into a tower.

 

[DHagan4755]

About 95% of rumours are wrong anyway . Just wait for the WWDC.

Not so fast. If you go back the past 9-12 months, AppleInsider has been pretty dead-on with their rumors. They cast doubt on the specs they received, but pretty much stand by the dual-optical drives in a modified Power Mac G5 tower. If that's what they're reporting, I would pretty much take that to the bank folks.
Their record since last August has been extremely good and far and away better than all of the other sites.

 

[psycho bob]

Clearly, the new form-factor 64-bit dual-core Conroe mini-tower/pizzabox
will be called the Mac Amateur !!

Can you seen the advertising... 'Are you Amateur enough? Now we've made the mac for you...'

I still think the intro line if it is like the one being suggested here is pretty poor. People talk about mac's and the ability to upgrade them but for me, at least, the most important thing to prolong the life of one is GPU and on that score you have no choice anyway. ATI like to demo things but where are the units of the actual shelves? You end up paying 3 times as much for something the PC world passed on long ago.

If Apple want to get serious they need better GPU's fullstop. The argument that not all users need them is not valid anymore. All Apple's software and a growing percentage of third party products make use of them. I also don't think it is fair to say that 'other companies get away with using crap product A...' because Apple need to attract as many people as possible. The iMac does a great job because for its price it has everything. These machines will be a lot more expensive and are supposeldly classed as workstations.

In my mind Workstations mean dual graphics cards (including Quadro's/Firegell's) with driver's that work properly. Lot's of RAM and ports and perhaps most importantly processing power. I'd have liked to had seen the line up go dual, quad, quad so it has some real sparkle. This one basically shouts 'you need the top model really mate' which for the majority will be too expensive.

I know of a few education institutions that will pass on these and get iMacs instead. Not only will they save a bundle but the performance deficit won't be that great either. Apple will show off the usual benchmarks saying these new machines are 500 times faster then the previous G5's but it will be bull. The 2.3 Xeon should be the base model allowing for either single 2.6 or quad 2.3 say in the middle.

I suspect the all Xeon lineup allows for more standardised components across the line compared to mixing it with Conroe's. Potentially it also makes it that little bit more complex and costly for a use to ugrade to a newer CPU later on themselves meaning all the more cash for Apple.

 

[svenas1]

Xserver and Xserve RAID (and servers from other manufacturers as well) has hard-drives that can be removed or added while the machine is running.
[...]
If he needs more storage, he could just put in a new HD, without downtime and without having to resort to external HD's.

Take a look at Xserve RAID. Imagine four of those HD's in front of the PowerMac. The appearance might be similar to the one in Xserve, or maybe they could be "holed" like the current PowerMac is.
[...]
All they have to do is to move some of it over to the new PowerMac.

MacPRo could have that kind of setup, whereas MacPro Mini would have "traditional" HD-setup. MacPro could have dual optical slots, and four hot-swappable HD-bays, whereas MacPro Mini would have single optical and two internal HD-bays (like current PowerMac does).

If Apple does put hot-swappable HD drives into their Mac pros, they will need a mid range case with a different set up, as you suggest for the MacPro Mini. I can see many people who are not sys-admins very uncomfortable with the idea of someone just picking out their HD at any moments notice. Servers usually sit locked away in a cabinet, locked away in the tech room. Computers at home just sit there, with everybody's eyes (and hands) all over them at any time.

But the idea of a MacPro with externally accesible HD's is indeed nice. Maybe they'd have a sleek latch which can be locked. Ive is up to such a task, I'm sure, design-wise.

 

[SPUY767]

2003: "In 12 months, we'll be at 3GHz".
Mid 2006: "I want to talk about 2.66GHz" although 4 cores running at 2.66GHz (Yum! ).

That is the very eason that the 2.5 GhZ Dual G5's are one of the best computing invesments ever.

 

[~Shard~]

Um.... The iMac Intel Core Duo support display spanning. So even if you have a second display, you can use it with the iMac Intel Core Duo. Can't do that with the Mini. I think it makes the iMac Intel Core Duo a nice in between model between the Mini and the Pro.

I'm well aware that the iMac supports screen spanning. My point was that not everyone has a desire to do that in the least. They just want one display.

s the imac not the mid range computer everyone wants so desperately? You simply can buy a pc with the same specs (both hw and sw), including a wicked beautiful monitor built in, for the same price. it's in b/n a mini and the g5s.

As I already stated, some people do not want a non-upgradeable computer with a display built in. They would like to have the flexibility to change/upgrade/replace HDDs, RAM, display, video card, etc.

people want computers at all levels. that's what dell does. oh, wait a sec...what happened to their stock in the last year? ..oh ya..it tanked. why...probably too much diversification is part of the reason.

Very poor argument and example. Dell's stock price has tanked because they have diversity in their product lines? Riiiight, I can tell you understand the stock market and the investment industry...

Lastly, Apple's stock has tanked as well. So I guess by your logic, Apple's stock has gone down because they are not diversified enough in their product offerings. Therefore you've just defeated your own arguments.

 

[Keebler]

I'm well aware that the iMac supports screen spanning. My point was that not everyone has a desire to do that in the least. They just want one display.



As I already stated, some people do not want a non-upgradeable computer with a display built in. They would like to have the flexibility to change/upgrade/replace HDDs, RAM, display, video card, etc.

then it's simple...they should stick with the inferior pc market. apple has never made their computers ultra-upgradeable and i don't see that happening.
there are tons of peripherals which are cost effective. i think the main point is that apple is trying to find an 'all-in-1' solution for those less knowledgeable about upgrading. some folks want a kick butt machine from which they open the box and have a great experience. geeks like you and i can upgrade our machines, but there are many ppl out there who don't care/don't want to/can't.

i still maintain the fact that this talk of a mid-range computer is like talking about cars. if you want a nice luxury car, then buy the lexus or acura or whatever with all the toys, prestige and quality. you either pay up or you buy a ford focus which does the trick, but not as nice. somewhere, apple has to decide where to draw their product line. i think they've done it with the mac mini, imac and powermac series. the imac is mid range as far as i'm concerned.

wrt to the display built in....ppl who see the screen will want it. they'll also want the huge savings in desk space too.

Very poor argument and example. Dell's stock price has tanked because they have diversity in their product lines? Riiiight, I can tell you understand the stock market and the investment industry...

lol maybe in your opinion. it's easy...they're spread across too many lines..focus on a few things and do well at them instead of trying to do everything. ie. perfect example - the german army in WW2. spread across too many fronts..not enough focus..they lost

Lastly, Apple's stock has tanked as well. So I guess by your logic, Apple's stock has gone down because they are not diversified enough in their product offerings. Therefore you've just defeated your own arguments.

absolutely not. lol i haven't defeated anything.
apple's stock has been riding hi and LOW because of the ipod line. anybody who follows apple knows and understands that. nothing else they do impacts their stock price more than the ipod. market expectations want new ipods...especially the video kind and other companies are launching their own brand of portable music players. therefore, apple's market share is destined to fall somewhat. i hope it doesn't, but i can't see them maintaining their huge grasp in the long run. no one dominates that badly *unless your name is microsoft and you screw everyone into buying your stuff lol

plus, the entire market is suffering so everything is down...dell is just way down already

i love these boards and the fact that apple has us chomping at the bit, talking uselessly a few weeks before anything official is launched. lol

 

[Cowinacape]

i love these boards and the fact that apple has us chomping at the bit, talking uselessly a few weeks before anything official is launched. lol

Aye, truer words have never before been spoken, Apple must love seeing us sitting here, babbling over new possible product offerings, while we are wiping the drool off of our keyboards I can hear those cash registers "cha-chinging" now

 

[rolandf]

Important 2006

Let’s see what WWDC 2006 brings. In any case the near future will contain some crucial decisions for Apple. As it seems, the iPod in its present form reached a plateau, and lost its initial momentum. Other companies and services can catch up. Also there is a noticeable shift towards the Mobile Phone as the portable media hub. I don’t think Apple can compete in the long run on all possible markets, and also I’m curious to see what Leopard will bring, as Vista is luring around the corner.

If OS X 1.5 isn’t that spectacular, then there is no reason to switch to Apple. However a sign that worries me, is that with the introduction of Intel based Macs, Apple is getting sluggish. The Boxes still
capitalise on the previous philosophy, but I fear that that will also change. The difference between PC and Mac will vanish further. The Intel switch is only a temporally relieve, and without some cutting edge dedicated hardware challenges, e.g. Cell 2 or PA Semi, the motivation to excel will fade.

Apple is competing on the many markets, and the iPod hype blurred their senses. A lot will depend on the question whether Apple is willing to continue its current march towards mediocrity.

Who would have thought that Windows Mobile will run once on the Palm?

 

[~Shard~]

i love these boards and the fact that apple has us chomping at the bit, talking uselessly a few weeks before anything official is launched. lol

Yep, it's great isn't it? It's one of the reasons I love hanging out here...

 

[wizz0bang]

A Mini Tower is the modern equivalent of a Cube...release a cheapo lower-end MacPro and you are set to go...no need for a MT whatsoever, despite the moans of a few select MR users, or nostalgic hobbyists of the past.

Ok, hopefully they will release a "low-end" $1499 version of the MacPro (using the same tower - but a single dual core Conroe) to fill this niche/gap in the line? If I want a future upgradable computer and I have an existing display, but my budget isn't $2000+, what can I do?

I really like the mid-tower and mini-tower format... make it silent, 2 HD bays and 2 DVD bays and I'm happy. I think Apple would sell quite a few. Perhaps it's just a new Cube as you suggest, and will only hurt Apple financially and offer too many confusing choices to users... but there is a definite audience for this type of machine. I won't even get started on a media center Apple (Mini with video I/O and several 3.5" HD bays)

Do you think Apple will endorse off-the-shelf CPU upgrades with the Intel MacPro? That has traditionally been a real plus to the PC world: buy a 2.6GHz Woodcrest now, then upgrade to a 3.5GHz a year or two later (after the 4+GHz is out and the prices are down). I think this would complicate AppleCare a bit, but perhaps you could have it done for a fee at an Apple store to keep your AppleCare going?

 

[~Shard~]

This is exactly my situation. I bought an iMac 17" and have it sitting next to my 20" DVI connected monitor. Nor am I the only one I know with this arrangement. Why would you think this "silly?"

Good for you, and I realize you're not the only one with this arrangement. If you would have read my post properly though, you would have realized I used the phrase "many people", not all people. For many people, yes, your above situation is true. However, for many other people, they have no desire or need whatsoever for 2 displays, screen spanning, etc. - so for them, it would be "silly" to buy a solution which gave them a second display, as that display would be useless for their needs.

We're not talking in absolutes here.

 

[Timepass]

absolutely not. lol i haven't defeated anything.
apple's stock has been riding hi and LOW because of the ipod line. anybody who follows apple knows and understands that. nothing else they do impacts their stock price more than the ipod. market expectations want new ipods...especially the video kind and other companies are launching their own brand of portable music players. therefore, apple's market share is destined to fall somewhat. i hope it doesn't, but i can't see them maintaining their huge grasp in the long run. no one dominates that badly *unless your name is microsoft and you screw everyone into buying your stuff lol

plus, the entire market is suffering so everything is down...dell is just way down already

i love these boards and the fact that apple has us chomping at the bit, talking uselessly a few weeks before anything official is launched. lol

heh you entire argument using the stock price and dell are poor at best. Just because dell failed doesnt mean the idea is not good.

if you want to go on that argument apple should NEVER of made the iPod because Harddrive based MP3 players had flop several times before hand and yet the iPod did really well......

Apple stock is tanking because it was over valued and blaming it on the iPod is weak at best. It was over valued so it going to tank. Also all the tech market stock is dropping right now. The entire industry stock is tanking.

You understanding the the stock market and how it works is really poor. It mostly runs on profic prediction debt load and things like that. Dell idea people like it. Confusing at times but people really do like having that much freedrom of choice. Apple is the other extreme with very little freedom of choice unless you want to pay a huge preimuim for it.

 

[BenRoethig]

Yes, but this really seems like the dirrection Apple is willing to take. The Mac Pro, just like the PowerMac, is made for profesionnals.

What I hate is that Apple refuses to releasy anything similar to the PC. Instead of releasing a tower, their solution is the iMac and the Mac mini. I hope their ideology changes with Intel.

I also wanted the Mac Pro costs to be lower simply because Intel is cheaper than the PowerPC. And Apple is known to start using cheap hardware in their Intel macs.

In the bigger market, making something unique and fresh is a good idea. However, shunning everything traditional will keep Mac OS X a minor player.

 

[Squire]

Um.... The iMac Intel Core Duo support display spanning. So even if you have a second display, you can use it with the iMac Intel Core Duo. Can't do that with the Mini. I think it makes the iMac Intel Core Duo a nice in between model between the Mini and the Pro.

That's not really the point. I'm not trying to be callous but, really, how many iMac users do you think have 2 displays? My guess is that it is a very small minority.

-Squire

 

[Multimedia]

Two Screens Spanning Seems To Be Out Of The General Public's Imagination Realm

Quite true Squire - the iMac may not even be an option for many people who already have a nice 20" (or whatever) LCD display. Buying an iMac would be silly, as why would they want another screen?

This is exactly my situation. I bought an iMac 17" and have it sitting next to my 20" DVI connected monitor. Nor am I the only one I know with this arrangement. Why would you think this "silly?" Maybe you don't have any imagination?

I think two or more screens are something few imagine possible so they never consider it. I have been spanning ever since it was possible with unusual video cards inside original Mac Pluses in 1986 and later from SEs. Became much easier to do since the 1987 Mac II with 6 NuBus Slots - up to 6 screens possible then - currently up to 8.

I have never understood why it didn't become more popular. I find a single monitor set-up to be impossibly confining. One reason may be that, until now, spanning or "extended desktop" was disabled on iBooks and iMacs so only an "illegal" "unsupported" hack would enable it. Now that Apple has finally removed that roadblock, perhaps we'll see many more iMacs and certainly a lot of MacBooks spanning in the years ahead.

 

[Evangelion]

If Apple does put hot-swappable HD drives into their Mac pros, they will need a mid range case with a different set up, as you suggest for the MacPro Mini. I can see many people who are not sys-admins very uncomfortable with the idea of someone just picking out their HD at any moments notice.

They could be locked. Most swappable HD's I have seen have a lock in 'em.

Servers usually sit locked away in a cabinet, locked away in the tech room. Computers at home just sit there, with everybody's eyes (and hands) all over them at any time.

Well, if you have local access to the computer, you can basically do whatever you wish. If the HD's are in the inside of the computer, stealing them takes maybe 1-2 minutes longer than it would take to steal a hot-swappable HD.

Rule of thumb: If the criminal has local access to the computer, it's all over,

 

[Multimedia]

Quad G5 Is One Of The Best Computing Investments Ever

2003: "In 12 months, we'll be at 3GHz".
Mid 2006: "I want to talk about 2.66GHz" although 4 cores running at 2.66GHz (Yum! ).

That is the very reason that the 2.5 GhZ Dual G5's are one of the best computing invesments ever.

I would have to respectfully disagree and nominate that crown to the Quad G5. If I hadn't dumped my Dual 2.5 G5 in February for $2500 and bought a refurbed Quad G5 (that came with 2GB of RAM) for $2799, I wouldn't be simultaneously ripping 5 different MP4s right now and still be able to write this post.