Mac Pro To Get Dual Optical Drive Slots?

[AidenShaw]

RAID-5 is good for amateurs...

That perpendicular tech is still controversial and unproven long term reliable.That's great. Never heard of Raid 5 before. What is it and how do you make it?

...but I run my file servers on RAID-6, RAID-10 or RAID-50 or RAID-60....

For a 10 TB volume, you don't want RAID-5....

And I also have probably 20 other 750 GB Seagate disks, and no problems yet. They're really good for Windows Media Center - 3 TB internal drives for recording video....

I also bought a batch of the 160 GB perpendicular laptop drives - no problems there, either.

 

[Multimedia]

Toast Burns As Many Discs & Images As You Like Simultaneously

Uhhhh Nero Burning ROM does - simultaneous burning - , oops i forgot there is no Nero for Mac just plain TOAST..lol

I just love my Dual 16x NEC ND-3550A's ...burn baby burn.

Ahh the rare, white, speckle-footed troll. See how it gracelessly insults a product without anything to back up its ravings. Truly astonishing. Truly.

I'm Burning 4 images simultaneously right now with enough headroom left over to edit this post. Each copy is using almost an entire core and sometimes more than one at once - from 70% to 132% all the time averaging around 90% each x 4. This my friends is why I love the Quad. You haven't multitasked until you've gone Quad.

Simply run multiple copies :

 

[Timepass]

actually, ya.. i meant to ask you: what other mp3 players were out there before apple really boomed with it? i know of the archos line, but others? do you have examples to back your point?

i still don't think my point is a bad idea...look at how bloody confusing it is to buy from them and what the final price would be...different configurations. tons of rebates = nuts. no wonder their sales # went down.

my argument is my opinion..that's all. obviously you don't like it, but that's fine...free country. it's not like we're writing an official company based policy or anything important.

all i know, is that in the end, i hope apple keeps rocking and producing great products.

Well it only take one to prove my point. But I know in 2001 I got a creitive MP3 player. That player was one of the first one on the market and it flopped. I knew well i was in High school mp3 players where a very new thing (I grad in 2001). Most of those floped.

I agree rebats that dell uses are confusing there no arguing that point they went way to far. But before they went over board on rebates the freedom of choice they had in designing you own system went over really well. Both Gateway and Dell did really well with that system. Now they both went to far and screwed up else where but the system work great for a while then they pushed it to far.

That shows that it works. Are we saying go as far as they do or offer insane rebats. No/ But adding mroe to the line and more freedom of choice yes. that is a good thing. The consumer likes having freedom.

one complaint I here over and over about apple is how limited it is and the paying a huge premuim to not get an all in one. The mini is to weak to fill there need the mac pro is to much oh and they dont want an all in one. They own a working monitor, they want something that falls bettween mac mini and the Mac pro that is NOT an all in one.

Also you stated that what cause dells stock to crash was the rebats.... That has noughting to do with the freedom of choice of building there system so you just killed your own argument. Thank you for making my job so much easier.

 

[Keebler]

Well it only take one to prove my point. But I know in 2001 I got a creitive MP3 player. That player was one of the first one on the market and it flopped. I knew well i was in High school mp3 players where a very new thing (I grad in 2001). Most of those floped.

I agree rebats that dell uses are confusing there no arguing that point they went way to far. But before they went over board on rebates the freedom of choice they had in designing you own system went over really well. Both Gateway and Dell did really well with that system. Now they both went to far and screwed up else where but the system work great for a while then they pushed it to far.

That shows that it works. Are we saying go as far as they do or offer insane rebats. No/ But adding mroe to the line and more freedom of choice yes. that is a good thing. The consumer likes having freedom.

one complaint I here over and over about apple is how limited it is and the paying a huge premuim to not get an all in one. The mini is to weak to fill there need the mac pro is to much oh and they dont want an all in one. They own a working monitor, they want something that falls bettween mac mini and the Mac pro that is NOT an all in one.

Also you stated that what cause dells stock to crash was the rebats.... That has noughting to do with the freedom of choice of building there system so you just killed your own argument. Thank you for making my job so much easier.

lol i think i must have you fired up enough b/c you're not reading and comprehending properly. i didn't say the rebates was the cause... i said it was part of the problem of diversifying a product line.

well, creative's player is one...so there are 2 that we know of. and we know of the impending lawsuit tussle b/c apple and creative wrt to the software designs (which i hope apple wins btw). but that, is another chat.

i still say that if people want something in between an imac and a mac pro/powermac...go the pc route. apple's business plan with using the ipod to increase their market share is going well based on the numbers issued of new mac owners. i don't think they need to add another mid-range tower. although, i bet if they did, you and i can at least agree on one thing, it will probably sell.

i've enjoyed this chat. thanks.

 

[Snowy_River]

...As I already stated, some people do not want a non-upgradeable computer with a display built in. They would like to have the flexibility to change/upgrade/replace HDDs, RAM, display, video card, etc....

Just to be contrary, your list is only half valid. HDs and RAM are upgradeable in the iMac. So, that only leaves display and video card...

 

[Timepass]

Just to be contrary, your list is only half valid. HDs and RAM are upgradeable in the iMac. So, that only leaves display and video card...

but you are still suck with the monitor and the HD is only 1/2 upgradeble. You cannt really add another inteneral hd to iMac.

And on the list you still have the PCI cards and video card.

 

[Silentwave]

Just to be contrary, your list is only half valid. HDs and RAM are upgradeable in the iMac. So, that only leaves display and video card...

like already said, only 1 HD, and RAM is limited to only 2GB. a cheap tower should have 4GB cap at least.

Also, optical drive upgrades?

 

[spetznatz]

For all those moaning about the reported video cards in these new machines, whatever happened to the Apple-XFX thing?

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=30299

 

[it5five]

I still don't get it. You people are asking to be able to upgrade everything that you can already upgrade in the MacPro, but you're asking for it to be cheaper than the MacPro. What???

 

[~Shard~]

Just to be contrary, your list is only half valid. HDs and RAM are upgradeable in the iMac. So, that only leaves display and video card...

True for the RAM, but even then, there isn't much room for expandability. 2 GB max? As for the hard drives, what if someone wants to add a second one? And how about PCI cards? Or what about the optical drive? What happens if my Superdrive dies? Is it easy to replace?

There are may examples where if just one component goes in an iMac, the whole machine is essentially rendered useless. Not ideal when spending a significant amount on a computer, that's all...

 

[~Shard~]

I still don't get it. You people are asking to be able to upgrade everything that you can already upgrade in the MacPro, but you're asking for it to be cheaper than the MacPro. What???

It's because many people do not have a need for 8-lane PCI Express slots (or whatever they are), higher end server class dual core Xeon procs (or quad core for that matter!), a mobo that supports 16 GB of RAM, dual 1000BT Ethernet ports, etc. Give me essentially what's in the iMac, but in tower form (upgradeable) and let me not be tied to a certain display.

In the case of the new core 2 duos, leave Woodcrest/Xeon for the higher end PowerMacs, but put Conroe in one of these mini-towers. That would be the perfect chip for this scenario. Other PC manufacturers will be releasing Conroe Towers I'm betting, will Apple release anything to compete with them?

 

[Silentwave]

I still don't get it. You people are asking to be able to upgrade everything that you can already upgrade in the MacPro, but you're asking for it to be cheaper than the MacPro. What???

Not the same level of expandability, and using less expensive processor/chipset/RAM combinations.

 

[Multimedia]

$999 Mac mini Tower Should Be Offered With Conroe Inside

...As I already stated, some people do not want a non-upgradeable computer with a display built in. They would like to have the flexibility to change/upgrade/replace HDDs, RAM, display, video card, etc....

I still don't get it. You people are asking to be able to upgrade everything that you can already upgrade in the MacPro, but you're asking for it to be cheaper than the MacPro. What???

Not the same level of expandability, and using less expensive processor/chipset/RAM combinations.

like already said, only 1 HD, and RAM is limited to only 2GB. a cheap tower should have 4GB cap at least.

Also, optical drive upgrades?

Yes Silentwave. When I look at the Fry's ad offering a Linux PC for $149.99 that has three 5.25" external ports for opticals OR removable 3.5" cages OR anything else as well as plenty of internal HD shelves, it saddens me that Apple is unwilling to serve at least the market above the Mini and below the Pro with an expandible Conroe tower for $999 or so. Let's face it, we're paying a lot for the OS X experience.

But there is certainly a HUGE GAP developing between the mini and the Pro that the iMac really can't fill. Surely Steve sees this and will add a new line to go after this type of consumer with Conroe towers.

On the other hand, I can't imagine running with less than 4 cores any more now that I'm spoiled on them.

 

[trogdor!]

To be honest, all i want in the new towers for sure is support for 4 SATA drives and 4 3.5inch slots to put them in and then a few more video card options.

And to all the people getting all heated up over this, calm down, there just rumors. Apple has surprised us in the past with new stuff, lets just see what actualy gets released.

 

[wizz0bang]

To be honest, all i want in the new towers for sure is support for 4 SATA drives and 4 3.5inch slots to put them in and then a few more video card options.

And to all the people getting all heated up over this, calm down, there just rumors. Apple has surprised us in the past with new stuff, lets just see what actualy gets released.

I agree. 4 drives is very practical for many "Pro" users. I also think external SATA will be big in the future (especially for MacBookPro owners). But my FW drive is holding in there just fine for my PowerBook and my needs.

As to the heated up users... it's a little crazy I enjoy talking about rumors, voicing my ideas, thinking about the future. Having someone give feedback on those ideas is fun. Some people get too easily upset over an idea. If you have a logical reason why it's not feasible, fine... if it offends your sense of order in the MacVerse, just calm down! Thanks for the feedback and let's continue the discussion. If someone has a problem with this discussion, there are plenty of other discussions you can take part in. This is Mac _Rumors_ after all... not MacFacts, or MacBusinessAnalyst or MacJerk.

 

[kevin.rivers]

True for the RAM, but even then, there isn't much room for expandability. 2 GB max? As for the hard drives, what if someone wants to add a second one? And how about PCI cards? Or what about the optical drive? What happens if my Superdrive dies? Is it easy to replace?

There are may examples where if just one component goes in an iMac, the whole machine is essentially rendered useless. Not ideal when spending a significant amount on a computer, that's all...

Last time I checked Apple was still repairing computers.... Also a superdrive going out does not render the system useless. Now the CPU, logic board, yeah.

However, how is that different on any other computer? Your motherboard dies, your computer is worthless. Sure you can go and find a local replacement. What if you can't? What if it is 25% more in a store. So you order it online and you wait.

In most cases you can find Mac logic boards online. Or you can take it to an Apple repair shop and have it fixed in a couple of days.

In addition, if you have a warranty why would you want to void it by putting you own motheroard in it?

So any computer can be rendered useless, no matter how much money you spend. And, you can jump right inside the iMac and fix it if you are so inclined.

 

[Silentwave]

I agree. 4 drives is very practical for many "Pro" users. I also think external SATA will be big in the future (especially for MacBookPro owners). But my FW drive is holding in there just fine for my PowerBook and my needs.

eSATA is going to be a lot of fun soon FirmTek among others has their cards out already for the MBP, and they have PCI-E versions as well IIRC. I am on the brink of getting one as soon as I can scrounge up enough cash for the enclosure and drives too.

 

[Silentwave]

Last time I checked Apple was still repairing computers.... Also a superdrive going out does not render the system useless. Now the CPU, logic board, yeah.

I don't know how warranties go for PM level computers, but I will say this. If my SuperDrive were to go out my computer would be useless until I could get a replacement. I could not install/use many programs on my computer, I could not boot from CD if needed, I couldn't use CDs for other reasons, basically its a real problem for many people.

I don't know if putting in a new drive on the PM level computers voids the apple warranty but I would think so on the iMac. I also don't know what their upgrade policy is on replacement parts (if say a blu-ray version were to be available and supported, would they install it for you?) but in a PM it would probably be easier.

 

[Snowy_River]

True for the RAM, but even then, there isn't much room for expandability. 2 GB max? As for the hard drives, what if someone wants to add a second one? And how about PCI cards? Or what about the optical drive? What happens if my Superdrive dies? Is it easy to replace?

There are may examples where if just one component goes in an iMac, the whole machine is essentially rendered useless. Not ideal when spending a significant amount on a computer, that's all...

Wow, I can remember when 1GB was the max for ANY computer. For that matter, I can remember when 1GB was a pipe dream. (I remember getting excited about being able to afford a 4MB RAM card for my computer!) Right now 2GB is the top end for a number of computers. I don't see that limitation as being that significant an issue.

You can upgrade the hard drive, by replacing it. True, there isn't another slot for an internal, but you can always add externals with relative ease. Again, I don't see this as a significant limitation.

Optical drive? You certainly can replace the optical drive. Kits have been out for this configuration for some time. While, right now, if the optical drive on an iMac went bad, they'd be smart to have Apple replace it under warranty, once they start getting older, I'm sure we'll see more kits aimed specifically at the Core iMacs. While it's true that it's not as easy as changing an optical drive on a tower, it is still possible. So let's not talk about the death of the optical drive killing the computer, shall we? Hmm?

Now, there are plenty of single components that you could point to that would kill the computer. All of them are on the main logic board. But, as someone else pointed out, killing the main logic board of any computer would kill the whole computer.

And, of course I was acknowledging that there were limitations like the lack of PCI slots in the iMac. I was just arguing that saying the HD and the RAM weren't upgradeable wasn't really accurate.

 

[~Shard~]

Wow, I can remember when 1GB was the max for ANY computer. For that matter, I can remember when 1GB was a pipe dream. (I remember getting excited about being able to afford a 4MB RAM card for my computer!) Right now 2GB is the top end for a number of computers. I don't see that limitation as being that significant an issue.

Yep, times are a-changin'! The average user may not need 4 GB of RAM right now (or even 2 GB, yes, very true) however I'm just thinking for future expandability and longevity. It wasn't that long ago at all that I bought my 17" 1.25 GHz G4 iMac, upgraded it to 512MB of RAM from Apple, then maxed it out with another 512MB stick, giving me a "whopping" 1 GB. Well, then came Tiger (with Dashboard and other RAM-requiring features) and now Leopard is coming and I can't imagine you will want to run it with anything lower than 1 GB of RAM. Just watch, in a year or so 2 GB will be table stakes in all likelihood.

And yes, you can't future-proof a computer for the next 5 years, but a little more expandability would be nice.

Optical drive? You certainly can replace the optical drive. Kits have been out for this configuration for some time. While, right now, if the optical drive on an iMac went bad, they'd be smart to have Apple replace it under warranty, once they start getting older, I'm sure we'll see more kits aimed specifically at the Core iMacs. While it's true that it's not as easy as changing an optical drive on a tower, it is still possible. So let's not talk about the death of the optical drive killing the computer, shall we? Hmm?

That's fair enough. But I would argue it is easier and less hassle to replace a faulty optical drive in a tower enclosure than it is in an iMac enclosure. I could replace my PC's optical drive right now in about 5 minutes - unscrewing the drive from the cage and putting the new one in would take the longest amount of time, next to taking the new drive out of the box and sometimes tricky plastic shrink wrap. . How long would it take me to replace an iMac's optical drive?

Now, there are plenty of single components that you could point to that would kill the computer. All of them are on the main logic board. But, as someone else pointed out, killing the main logic board of any computer would kill the whole computer.

And, of course I was acknowledging that there were limitations like the lack of PCI slots in the iMac. I was just arguing that saying the HD and the RAM weren't upgradeable wasn't really accurate.

Yep, fair enough. Valid points indeed, thanks for the discussion.

 

[zero2dash]

I'm hoping that they announce at WWDC that they're releasing a Conroe MacPro for >$1799 that the baseline Woodcrest will go for. If they do, great - I'm sold. If they don't - guess I'll be waiting for the 20" iMac with "Conroe Inside".

 

[~Shard~]

I'm hoping that they announce at WWDC that they're releasing a Conroe MacPro for >$1799 that the baseline Woodcrest will go for. If they do, great - I'm sold. If they don't - guess I'll be waiting for the 20" iMac with "Conroe Inside".

I think everyone is expecting these new PowerMacs with Woodcrest/Xeon in them, so that will be no surprise itself. However, that begs the question, what is Steve's One more thing...™ going to be?

 

[zero2dash]

I think everyone is expecting these new PowerMacs with Woodcrest/Xeon in them, so that will be no surprise itself. However, that begs the question, what is Steve's One more thing...™ going to be?

Yeah, he always brings a rabbit and a hat, doesn't he?
I thought (briefly) about buying a refurb G5, but I'd rather get a new processor and have to deal with "not optimal" performance out of CS2 for awhile. Then again, approching those levels, I'm at base MacPro price, so...who knows. I don't really want to give up my 2 20" dual Trinitron flat screens, so I'll probably end up getting a Pro and upgrading the memory myself and just be happy that I own a computer that I can count on for a long time.

Not that my P4 3.0C w/1g RAM isn't chumming along or anything, but...I'm itchin' for something new. Damn you technology...

 

[wizz0bang]

Wow, I can remember when 1GB was the max for ANY computer. For that matter, I can remember when 1GB was a pipe dream. (I remember getting excited about being able to afford a 4MB RAM card for my computer!) Right now 2GB is the top end for a number of computers. I don't see that limitation as being that significant an issue.

You can upgrade the hard drive, by replacing it. True, there isn't another slot for an internal, but you can always add externals with relative ease. Again, I don't see this as a significant limitation.

I don't think the original comments were an attack on the iMac... it is a terrific computer. But it is not for everyone. I think four ram slots would be a good hedge against future ram needs: 4GB now, 8GB in a year or two at reasonable cost. Two HDs is a really nice option... external drives can be a pain. Also, what if I'm not happy with a 20" display and want a 23" or 24" or even more? What if I want to use my current 19"? What if I want to upgrade the video card in two years?

True, I could just buy a MacPro. But the more I think about it, a machine with the features I want should only cost $999 or $1299. A woodcrest only Pro line would make this price point impossible. If Apple could mass produce a mid tower with a good motherboard giving these features, I think it would better compete with Dell and the like on price/features. I don't see Apple undercutting Dell (or insert any company), nor should they try. I'm simply saying Apple can no longer afford to be WAY out of line - and PPC processors can no longer be an excuse.

They can ship it like a Mini, sans keyboard and mouse. $1299 for a great basic Mac tower. True, this would cut into Mini and iMac sales, but I think the net sales (and profits) would go up. My sister would still go for the iMac, so would most people who just want a computer that works. The pros will still go for the MacPro. But those of us who want a small, quiet expandable Mac would be satisfied. This covers a lot of potential switchers who might find the Mini restrictive.

 

[QCassidy352]

Here are my guesses/wishes:

Mac - New Mini tower case (2 HD, 2 CD bays)

Mac $1499
(Conroe) Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz 4MB cache
1GB DDR2-800
ATI Radeon X1800 256MB
250GB HD
2x front USB, 1x front FW400
4x rear USB, 2x rear FW400, 1x rear FW800
Digital + analog audio I/O
Bluetooth and Airport extreme
Dual gb ethernet
Keyboard and mightymouse

Mac eXtreme $1999
Same as above, but with 2.93GHz Core 2 extreme (maybe overclocked to 3GHz+ so Steve can gloat)


Mac Pro: Similar case to previous G5 towers, all will be quad (dual dual).

Mac Pro $1999
2x Woodcrest 2.0Ghz
1GB DDR667
ATI Radeon X1800 256MB
2x250GB raid
ATI Radeon

Mac Pro $2499
2x Woodcrest 2.66Ghz

Mac Pro $3299
2x Woodcrest 3.0Ghz
More storage and more Ram

Look for same hot video upgrade options.

Come on Steve, I know you can do it!

What are you smoking? Can I have some?