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If this is true that Steve Jobs himself said those very words, then the verdict is we are not going to see a mac pro this year.. Breaking what he said it can be summed up as follows.. I will put it in my words:

"No need to update yet" - this means the following: The 2009 series of mac pros are very powerful workstations and as thus I see no reason at this immediate time to upgrade or replace them.

How do you leap from that liberal rewriting to "no Mac Pro this year". The text clearly puts a stamp on the need on immediate ("right now" ) timeframe when written. It says jack squat about the future and says only something about that particular point in time.

I have doubts whether that email is legit also, but it is says nothing about the rest of this year. If it was sent in November might have some weight but about half of the calendar is still left.


Additionally, even if it is Jobs he is not going to throw Intel under the bus or reveal any of Intel's secret information. Nor is he going to put even hint of a target date on an update. So if Apple is waiting on some part before updating the whole Mac Pro line up then they are not in desperate need of updating. Which is true.


If you go to the HP , Dell , etc websites you'll see that 55xx and 35xx workstations are still being sold. They haven't been yanked from the market as "old tech not worth buying anymore". Neither have they had their prices dropped significant from what there were this time last year. (minus whatever checkout coupon Dell want to throw on top. )



Conclusion,

There is no conclusion here. You are basically presupposing the conclusion. It is written in premise-> conclusion format but just spinning smoke to give appearance of having substance.
 
The MINI is a consumer based machine.. and plus holds more support than the mac pro does.. more people would buy the mini as its part of Apple's consumer line and not the pro line..

Cindori: I am very sane my friend.. remember you deal with me? You wouldn't make fun of me and I won't make fun of you... got it?

I am not stupid.. I damn well know that if there are new video kexts there that Apple or someone in engineering at Apple requested them.. but what I am saying is it doesn't answer any validity to a coming mac pro.. a coming video card, YES.... of course..

And yes, when the true 5870 Apple card comes out, I will buy it of course.. though I think it will not be as powerful as the pc flashed cards which offer 1.5-2GB of GDDR5 or higher memory.

Mini was nearly two years without an update but now it has gotten more love from Apple than any other Mac. I meant there doesn't have to be reliable rumors so it can become true.

When was the last time Apple released new GPUs but not new Mac Pro? Apple doesn't do such updates. If they did, we would see new GPUs when they are released, not when they are at the end of their cycle like 5xxx is now (Southern Islands is due in early 2011).
 
Why the mac mini got an update over the mac pro..

Although, the Mac Mini has also been neglected for some time, it just recently got an update, silent though and only posted on the apple website and store. The reason it got an update and the mac pro didn't is because Apple sells a lot more of the consumer based macs which are as follows:

Macbook, Macbook Pro, Mac Mini, and Imac..

There isn't a real huge demand for the pro-market based machines, those being the mac pro and the xserve.. However, if what we are seeing is silence in terms of the mac pro then there has to be a reason.. and we don't know for sure what that reason could be. ANd no fake rumors are going to validate any truth to it either.. Only Apple knows and no one at Apple is at liberty to say openly whether or not a new mac pro is coming... the email from steve jobs, IF IT IS REAL, says it all - it isn't coming, not now.. not later, but maybe sometime down the road.. given November or December possibly - Again, I am speculating here.. And the arrival of some new video kexts is also no proof of the upcoming mac pro either..

I applaud Apple for getting the 5870 kexts however I am sure the 5870 when it comes out in Apple OEM format is going to be much more expensive and less powerful than its PC brothers.. we who are gamers know far too well that the pc cards offer more power and efficient framrates than anything Apple has come out with..

So, its no wonder then that the Mini did get an update as its one of the consumer based macs apart of Apple being the "itoys" company which is promoting itself far more for the consumer than the pro-user or business. This is a trend that is only going to get larger and larger.. yes, I am sure that a mac pro update will come, but given the fact that the westmere/gulftown really look like enhanced Nehalems(or nehalem-ex) to offer us a bit more processing power, they are at best - UPGRADES for our machine, and don't constitute or warrant any new mac pro box or new logic board at all..

I have said this many times.. and I hold my truth to all of this. Yes, it would be nice if the B1 stepping processors by themselves would work in our 2009 mac pros.. to a PC enthusiast, this is very easy as all one has to do is download the appropriate bios update(if the board doesn't already support it) and flash - drop in the new processor and its done..

But for us, we have to spend 1000's of dollars more on a whole new apparatus which really shouldn't be. At best these excellent processors are nothing more than upgrades and socket for socket they fit nicely!

If anything the 2009 mac pro would then just be called a 2009 Mac Pro deluxe with the capability of using the w36xx/x56xx processors.

But going back to the mini... now, had the mini been a pro-market based system, then the probability of it being updated would have been near nil as it seems Apple is more into the end consumer these days than the pro user..

Sad but true.. Apple, Inc is not the same Apple we all knew and loved during the PowerPC era, it is a new child with the aim of satisfying far more its consumer clients and leaving behind or pushing by the waist-side its business clients and pro-users.
 
Roman, you do know you can go back and edit a post after you already submitted it right? You don't have to do 5 posts right after each other...

We still have no idea when the MP will be updated, but I am leaning towards September. Some people will shoot down the rumor that just came out because theres no real "proof" but there is hardly ever any real proof with anything Apple. And there was nothing about the mini before it was updated.

I think it is definitely coming in a month or two not only from the recent rumor, but also the new GPU driver findings. Like someone on here already said, why would Apple release new GPUs for a computer that hasn't been updated in over 500 days?
 
the conclusion has nothing to do with what you just said..

I was just stating that given the fact that there is no credible evidence to the letter, I firmly believe that it did NOT come from Steve Jobs or anyone else at Apple..

I am not presupposing anything... please read clearly what I wrote and you will see I am not presupposing anything.. you know my take on the whole westmere/gulftown processors - they are at best... a NICE UPGRADE to our systems currently.. they don't warrant a whole new box and new apparatus as their enhancements are not that significant.



How do you leap from that liberal rewriting to "no Mac Pro this year". The text clearly puts a stamp on the need on immediate ("right now" ) timeframe when written. It says jack squat about the future and says only something about that particular point in time.

I have doubts whether that email is legit also, but it is says nothing about the rest of this year. If it was sent in November might have some weight but about half of the calendar is still left.


Additionally, even if it is Jobs he is not going to throw Intel under the bus or reveal any of Intel's secret information. Nor is he going to put even hint of a target date on an update. So if Apple is waiting on some part before updating the whole Mac Pro line up then they are not in desperate need of updating. Which is true.


If you go to the HP , Dell , etc websites you'll see that 55xx and 35xx workstations are still being sold. They haven't been yanked from the market as "old tech not worth buying anymore". Neither have they had their prices dropped significant from what there were this time last year. (minus whatever checkout coupon Dell want to throw on top. )





There is no conclusion here. You are basically presupposing the conclusion. It is written in premise-> conclusion format but just spinning smoke to give appearance of having substance.
 
I am not stupid.. I damn well know that if there are new video kexts there that Apple or someone in engineering at Apple requested them.. but what I am saying is it doesn't answer any validity to a coming mac pro.. a coming video card, YES.... of course..

A dubious conclusion to propose. The primary market for Mac video cards is new Mac Pros. There is no large after market for Mac Pro video cards. Proof? How many vendors do you see participating? There are the exactly two cards that aren't part of some CTO option. Compare that to the Windows PC market.... what comparative ratio would that be? Pretty small.

Second, if it is a 3rd party, non CTO card why would the software be in Apple software build tree for Mac OS X 10.6.4 ? The reasons why some tidbits leak in new OS drops is that the code being worked on and tested gets entangled with the code being dropped for release. The Mac mini has no ATI graphics in any configuration. If a Mac Pro were to be released in July/Aug/Sept it would definitely be in the later testing phases at this point.
That increases the likelihood that some of the code tree for that OS update will get merged into the latest production build either by accident or because it is a bigger pain to separate it out.
 
Oh, and one more thing..

so far all we have is empty rumors with no valid proof or primary sources pointing to the arrival of a mac pro for 2010... nothing at all, as its all based on speculation.. Until Apple or someone at Apple leaks by accident that a new mac pro is coming and its from APPLE, INC and not from some kid or someone on here trying to incite, then I will believe it when I see it..

until then... yes, a mac pro may/may not come.. I am not going to say it will for sure because like you, I don't know myself. But given that if we could use those processors in our machines, then there wouldn't be a need for a whole new mac pro workstation.


How do you leap from that liberal rewriting to "no Mac Pro this year". The text clearly puts a stamp on the need on immediate ("right now" ) timeframe when written. It says jack squat about the future and says only something about that particular point in time.

I have doubts whether that email is legit also, but it is says nothing about the rest of this year. If it was sent in November might have some weight but about half of the calendar is still left.


Additionally, even if it is Jobs he is not going to throw Intel under the bus or reveal any of Intel's secret information. Nor is he going to put even hint of a target date on an update. So if Apple is waiting on some part before updating the whole Mac Pro line up then they are not in desperate need of updating. Which is true.


If you go to the HP , Dell , etc websites you'll see that 55xx and 35xx workstations are still being sold. They haven't been yanked from the market as "old tech not worth buying anymore". Neither have they had their prices dropped significant from what there were this time last year. (minus whatever checkout coupon Dell want to throw on top. )





There is no conclusion here. You are basically presupposing the conclusion. It is written in premise-> conclusion format but just spinning smoke to give appearance of having substance.
 
Ok

Then let it be September.. then what? What if it still isn't out? I hear what you are saying.. the arrival of new 5870 video kexts(I don't have them on my version of snow leopard) may mean a 2010 mac pro is in the works.. but again, we don't know for sure..

I will put a wager for September that there will be a mac pro, ok?


Roman, you do know you can go back and edit a post after you already submitted it right? You don't have to do 5 posts right after each other...

We still have no idea when the MP will be updated, but I am leaning towards September. Some people will shoot down the rumor that just came out because theres no real "proof" but there is hardly ever any real proof with anything Apple. And there was nothing about the mini before it was updated.

I think it is definitely coming in a month or two not only from the recent rumor, but also the new GPU driver findings. Like someone on here already said, why would Apple release new GPUs for a computer that hasn't been updated in over 500 days?
 
Of course we don't know for sure, we never know anything for sure with Apple! Everything that comes out is a rumor, just that. That is why this site is named macRUMORS!! And whatever someone on the forums said is just speculation or a guess. Even if Steve Jobs said that it would come out on a certain day, thats not for sure either, there is still a chance something could go wrong and it get delayed.

And it seems like your obsessed with saying that nothing is credible and that there is no proof for anything. I'm pretty sure people know what the words rumor and speculation mean.
 
I was just stating that given the fact that there is no credible evidence to the letter, I firmly believe that it did NOT come from Steve Jobs or anyone else at Apple..

That's even more dubious. Apple's corporate policy is to not talk about future products and future release dates. What does that quote do? It does exactly that. It does a redirect to paint the current product in a positive light and says nothing about the future.

Since Apple's policies are well know the content of that email message say nothing about whether it is valid or in valid. It doesn't mean anything. Remote proof would be an exact email routing header that looked creditable and particular word usage and phrases utilized by the Jobs email answering infrastructure.


you know my take on the whole westmere/gulftown processors - they are at best... a NICE UPGRADE to our systems currently.. they don't warrant a whole new box and new apparatus as their enhancements are not that significant.

Yet another wild leap in logic. None of that (whole new box, new apparatus) is in the attributed Jobs quote. Apple isn't going to radically change the box much .... wow... and the sky is blue. They haven't radically changed the box much in years. Only the folks on this forum playing "If I was Steve I'd design a Mac Pro this way" are proposing radical changes to the appearance of the Mac Pro. Likewise Westmere is designed to not require radical changes to the internal board. However, they have to be shipping to plug into the socket that hasn't changed year over year.

If Intel ships the full line up of Westmere and Apple doesn't ship a Mac Pro then there would be some support for "doom and gloom" about no Mac Pros the rest of the year. As long as Intel does not ship all the parts Apple needs for what they have historically presented as the full Mac Pro line up you can't drawn definate conclusions one way or other that going to be not shipping for rest of the year.

As for them being so insignificant can be skipped. Bunk! Every vendor who ships a "broad as possible" line up has thrown them into their product mix. All of these CPU upgrades are incremental. Sandy Bridge will be incremental too. CPU updates are a necessary, but not sufficient, element of Mac updates. The only way Apple would skip one is if the system design just updated (so can't do a whole line up refresh ) and there was yet another CPU update before the next freshed or that the CPU was inappropriate for the system design. If there were a full 36xx line up to match the 56xx line up of components the would be a increased value prop for the whole Mac Pro line up.
 
Although, the Mac Mini has also been neglected for some time, it just recently got an update, silent though and only posted on the apple website and store. The reason it got an update and the mac pro didn't is because Apple sells a lot more of the consumer based macs which are as follows:

But Mac Pro makes a lot more profit per unit than Mini does. You don't have any sales figures backing up your statement. Who knows, maybe Mac Pro sells more than Mini because many people jump for the iMac instead and Mac Pro has some serious market among pros

There isn't a real huge demand for the pro-market based machines, those being the mac pro and the xserve.. However, if what we are seeing is silence in terms of the mac pro then there has to be a reason.. and we don't know for sure what that reason could be. ANd no fake rumors are going to validate any truth to it either.. Only Apple knows and no one at Apple is at liberty to say openly whether or not a new mac pro is coming... the email from steve jobs, IF IT IS REAL, says it all - it isn't coming, not now.. not later, but maybe sometime down the road.. given November or December possibly - Again, I am speculating here.. And the arrival of some new video kexts is also no proof of the upcoming mac pro either..

Why would Steve tell us that there is a new one coming? That would hurt the sales of the current one.

I applaud Apple for getting the 5870 kexts however I am sure the 5870 when it comes out in Apple OEM format is going to be much more expensive and less powerful than its PC brothers.. we who are gamers know far too well that the pc cards offer more power and efficient framrates than anything Apple has come out with..

The GPU is the same. The amount of VRAM might be different but there are 1GB 5870s available as well and the VRAM isn't that important anyway unless you are driving dual monitors or one with insane resolution. It's not going to be worse than PC cards with similar specs. Drivers under OS X may suck but that's normal

If anything the 2009 mac pro would then just be called a 2009 Mac Pro deluxe with the capability of using the w36xx/x56xx processors.

Most Macs used the C2Ds for almost 3 years. If 2007 iMac has C2D and 2009 iMac has C2D, what would you call the 2009 iMac? iMac 2007 SuperHyperUltimateExtremeDeluxe? :p

New CPUs and GPUs are already enough so it can be called an update. Intel's tick-tock goes like that. Die shrink doesn't need a new socket. Apple wants to sell those Westmere behemoths thus they aren't releasing a FW for 2009 Mac Pros which would allow Westmere to be used, it's business. There is no guarantee that you will be able to flash the EFI and gain the possibility of using Westmere in 2009 Mac Pro, that's just hoping.

UPGRADES for our machine, and don't constitute or warrant any new mac pro box or new logic board at all..

Did I ever mention a new box or logic board? For years, a simple CPU&GPU update has been enough to get "update" tag on it. There doesn't have to be major overhaul everytime. Westmere and ATI 5870 is what people wants. Everything else is more or less irrelevant.
 
Happy to take on board any info. Shame it can't be imparted by all in an adult manner.

No problem. Of course better GPU's will be faster, but when you think how old HL2 is now even my MB Pro lags playing it, and with the hardware I have I fully expect to play HL2 fine. Their's a thread on the Steam forums about the last update and the effects it's had on performance.
With a bit of luck Apple will make some decent drivers like you get in Windows.
 
so far all we have is empty rumors with no valid proof or primary sources pointing to the arrival of a mac pro for 2010... nothing at all, as its all based on speculation.. Until Apple or someone at Apple leaks by accident that a new mac pro is coming and its from APPLE, INC and not from some kid or someone on here trying to incite, then I will believe it when I see it..

This is hypocritical. You want to infer the negative ("Apple isn't going to ship for rest of the year" ) on no verified statement from Apple. If want the criteria hurdle to be something directly then fine. But that means you can conclude nothing until you get it. Neither the positive (there will be an update) or the negative (there will be no update).



until then... yes, a mac pro may/may not come.. I am not going to say it will

But you've repeatitively promoted the position that it isn't. If want to now convert to don't know than fine.


for sure because like you, I don't know myself. But given that if we could use those processors in our machines, then there wouldn't be a need for a whole new mac pro workstation.

While Apple may not officially commit to dates nor "proactively leak" about Macs into the web ( like they do with the iPhone ), that doesn't mean their behaviour is beyond being predictable. There will be probabiliites associated with it, but the general timeframe when it would not be surprising to get an update is generally known. This Sept/Oct there will be iPod updates. Next June/July there will be iPhone update. Most likely next Feb/March/April there will an iPad update.

If Intel falls into a 12 month update cycle on the processors used in the Mac products Apple will probably align their cycles to that more predicatble regularity also. The current Xeon update full schedule is a bit jacked up now so the Mac Pro (and XServe ) are jacked up. Not particularly suprising other than fact Intel let it drift so far like this. However, does make sense if Intel is trying to move the update time to a different part of the year.

Many of these product development cycles are longer than 12 months so it really didn't help improve quality or control costs to run multiyear updates anyway. Dropping frantic updates multiple times a year doesn't really add customer value over the long term.
 
Although, the Mac Mini has also been neglected for some time, it just recently got an update, silent though and only posted on the apple website and store. The reason it got an update and the mac pro didn't is because Apple sells a lot more of the consumer based macs which are as follows:

The timing of the Mac mini update was due in part because the 320m didn't come up till this spring. Same factor contributing to why the MBP and Macbook didn't drop until after the 320m hit the market even though the CPU updates were somewhat available in quantity.

The whole Apple cares more about products largely in reverse order of unit numbers is largely speculative hype.

The White iPhone 4 isn't shipping right now either. Is that because Apple cares more about the Black iPhones than the White ones ? Or there is some problem with the components that go into the White phone? Or they just don't get book enough capacity ?


Sad but true.. Apple, Inc is not the same Apple we all knew and loved during the PowerPC era, it is a new child with the aim of satisfying far more its consumer clients and leaving behind or pushing by the waist-side its business clients and pro-users.

This is one of those "facts" that folks keep marketing here in these forums but repeating it over and over again with the hopes that if folks read it enough times it will stick. While Apple is doing more things that doesn't mean things have completely dropped off the list. Additionally, folks seem to want to turn this into sibling rivalry complex ( Steve got on stage with the iPhone, but not with the Mac Pro .... booo hoooo )


Obviously, Mac are a more mature market. Generally PCs have been around for 3 decades and Mac for a large fraction of that. The number of folks for which a personal computer is a new and magical device is growing smaller worldwide and is already at very small fractions in the most developed countries.

Apple is in a much more stable state because they don't "have to" grab share away from Windows PC systems as the primary mechanism to achieve growth. As long as Apple's growth rate approximately matches the overall PC market growth they are healthy.

So for the Mac Pro market to be healthy the real question is not if Apple is giving "dog and pony" circus shows around each product introduction. That's superfluous bull manure in the context of selling into a mature market. The question is whether the user base is growing. That is the key critical element of growth.

I'm not extremely sure which way the Mac Pro market is going. A huge fraction of the noise and complaints in this forum are about products Apple doesn't make, but dumped here because this is the closest match. Complete folly to make any judgments on much of what is presented here. There is certainly some migration of users onto the next lower class offering. That's is normal. Some users workload won't increase as computer power gets pushed into lower level offerings.

The growth will only come from folks who have ever bigger problems that need to be solved. New folks with those problems and current users who have problem growth. If Apple doesn't see those then that will put the Mac Pro on thin ice.

Note these are not the "I wanted a mini-tower but I'll buy a Mac Pro anyway" , "I only want to buy a computer every 6-9 years so I'm going to buy max future proof", or "I have always bought this form factor so will buy it again because upright rectangular, headless boxes are best". If that's a 30-40+% of the Mac Pro market then it is doomed. All of those represent value prop mismatches between what the Mac Pro primarily offers and what the users want.
 
:D
Just hope its true. However, I don't see Apple doing a keynote for the Mac Pro. I see the 2010 Mac Pro as a silent update... Just like new MBP, MB, and Mini. They seem to only do keynotes for their iGadgets now.

Silent and keynotes are two radically different things.

The MPB and Mini got a press release. That is not silent.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/06/15macmini.html

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/04/13mbp.html

Right now the "hot news" pages has some links to very good reviews that the Mac mini got. I'm sure they will fade from that page over time. To propose that Apple isn't devoted coverage resources to the Mac line is farcically incorrect.



The Macbook got released with no press release. That is a silent release.

Mac Pro users sulking because there was no associated media hype event is ridiculous and completely non productive.
 
Silent and keynotes are two radically different things.

The MPB and Mini got a press release. That is not silent.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/06/15macmini.html

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/04/13mbp.html

Right now the "hot news" pages has some links to very good reviews that the Mac mini got. I'm sure they will fade from that page over time. To propose that Apple isn't devoted coverage resources to the Mac line is farcically incorrect.



The Macbook got released with no press release. That is a silent release.

Mac Pro users sulking because there was no associated media hype event is ridiculous and completely non productive.

Agreed with all points. Only the Macbook got the real silent treatment. The store didn't even go down for it. They simply fidgeted the spec numbers and added the "new" icon. But you're right, no "News" updated on Apple's site.
 
imo:
 

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But Mac Pro makes a lot more profit per unit than Mini does. You don't have any sales figures backing up your statement. Who knows, maybe Mac Pro sells more than Mini because many people jump for the iMac instead and Mac Pro has some serious market among pros
given the new Mac Mini - i think its safe to assume that even though the MP makes more profit per machine, then MM would sell more. probably to the extent that it makes more profit for apple then the MP does - based on pure amount of units sold.


*pencils in* get some details from him ;)
 
Do you think it will be on the 20th?

Not a chance in Hell ................................ but perhaps the following Tuesday, or the one following that, or the .................... :p

Apple's earnings call (for just ended third quarter) is on July 20 so "No MP for you!": http://www.apple.com/investor/

Not to beat a dead horse too much more but the itoy haters need to wake up and smell the refried beans: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/06/24/what-the-iphone-means-to-apple/

cheers to the longs
JohnG
 
Not to beat a dead horse too much more but the itoy haters need to wake up and smell the refried beans: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/06/24/what-the-iphone-means-to-apple/

Who cares if the blogger analyst regularly beats wall street's estimate numbers. Are they accurate is what matters. Sheesh.

That chart is whacked or mislabeled. I suspect they are putting iPod Touch sales into the iPhone revenue bracket. Touches may or may not outsell iPhones but it isn't that many fewer if they are suppose to be in the iPod bracket. If thrown into the iPhone bracket it is misleading it isn't iPhone sales that is driving that. Also over time the iPod Touch should replace the earlier versions of the iPod .... it is an iPod. Eventually the iPod Classic will disappear.

That the iPhone is growing faster than the Mac ... well duh. It is a product that has been around about 2 less decades. The Mac market has growth also, just not as high.

Apple is also on the hook for probably around 4-6 million bumpers cases too. Revenues isn't the final story, it is profits.
 
Interesting. So 9 months since a small update. Another 9 months from December would be August. :D
Yes, however December is the 12th month and March is the 3rd month so if you multiply 3 by 12, you get 36, and then if you divide that by the difference in months between those two, you get 4, so the Mac Pro is due for an update in the fourth quarter of 2010.
 
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