Mac Pro Update Now Possible with New Xeon E5 Chips Next Week

[osx11]

"There comming"
http://pcper.com/news/Storage/CES-2012-OCZ-Shows-Lightfoot-Thunderbolt-External-SATA-Drive

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/26/western-digital-mybook-thunderbolt-duo-hands-on-macworld-2012/

It's great thinking about the possibilities that Thunderbolt will one day provide. However, thunderbolt technology for external drives ONLY makes sense with SSD.

So unless SSD prices start dropping dramatically in the very near future, few people are going to take advantage of this technology.

In a few years, It'd be interesting to see what percentage of 2011 thunderbolt-equipped Macs will ever have used that technology. So far, thunderbolt is pretty much a feature that is theoretically awesome but way too overpriced.

 

[StefSSU]

No, the fact they can make 'any profit at all' doesn't in itself make it worth pursuing, because the return on their investment in that area might be less than investing their resources elsewhere.

True, but there's lots of things to consider here. Apple famously makes products that it want's to use itself (or, at least that was Jobs' mantra with the iPhone, iPod, iPad). Do Apple's own engineers prefer working with a workstation than an iMac? I'd imagine some of them could easily see a benefit and would not want to settle for any less.

Remember that however great Apple's iDevices (or whatever you wish to call them) are, they are fundamentally content consumption devices. This content has to be made somewhere, and when it comes to applications macs are the only way to go (excluding things like UDK, unity). It's in Apple's best interests to provide the best possible machine it can to allow developers to continue to create great content. With that in mind, as long as it can be profitable, then why pull the product?

Beyond that, I think the Mac Pro represents a great part of the company. The MP and it's predecessors has a huge part in Apple's history. From their very first roots to helping the company survive through being the creative content production machine of choice for many. It's a history I'm sure Apple is proud of. The MP is essentially the descendent of the very first Apple / Apple II / Mac (or perhaps the iMac fits better here, actually?). The World Wide Web was written on an NeXT workstation, essentially the same people who made the MP. I'm sure they see the value in no-compromise performance machines. Does Apple still want to be known as a company who makes tools for the "crazy ones" who change the world? Or are they satisfied with their image of "magical" products? I personally hope it's not the latter, despite how great these products are. The MP is a pretty powerful symbol in Apple's products, and they would be sending a huge message with its discontinue.

 

[zephonic]

I don't think they'll discontinue the MacPro, not now anyway.

They need it to sell Apple displays.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

"There comming"
http://pcper.com/news/Storage/CES-2012-OCZ-Shows-Lightfoot-Thunderbolt-External-SATA-Drive

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/26/western-digital-mybook-thunderbolt-duo-hands-on-macworld-2012/

Thanks for the links, but I was wondering about other, less expensive ways to hold multiple hard drives in an external enclosure.

There's this thing:
http://www.newertech.com/products/hdddocks.php

but it's notoriously low quality.

 

[scott911]

what to do with your old mac pro

If any firms out there would like to know how / where to get a nice tax receipt for the donation of their old mac pros, e-mail me.

I volunteer with a small non-profit where design work is an important component of the mission, and right now they use... PC's

yeah right?,

seriously - how can they be saving the world, working in an environment like that?

 

[ericinboston]

Yes, it is niche. But so what? If Apple can make any profit at all in this area then it is still worth pursuing.

With regards to point 3... Go on. Seriously, go out and find me an example of a comparable workstation to in particular the base 8 core and 12 core Mac Pro's. For reasons I've already explained, i7's are not comparable to Xeons. Remember that today is day 583 after the MP was last updated, and that because Apple does not lower there prices these machines were at their best value more than a year and a half ago. Still, my guess is that if you were to configure a comparable windows box that actually used the same components as the MP it would be much more expensive than you think. And that is ignoring many things such as service, software (OS X), enclosure, etc.
.

1)"Yes, it is a niche. But so what?"...that's my whole argument about WHY Apple MAY CHOOSE to kill this line.

2)You are mistaken (this is the 2nd time I've told you)...the $2500 Mac is 4 Core. 4 Core. 4 Core. Go read it: http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro

3)As for comparing 12core workstations, no, I really don't have any history or comparing such machines...and I'm not going to bother...because now you're getting at the top of the line Macs for huge amounts of money...folks buying those are, again, needing it for niche uses.


Also, don't think the a/v world and publishing world heavily rely on the Mac. This isn't 1990. Wintel platforms stepped into those markets in the mid-90s and own the space...Mac no longer owns those spaces. A player? Yes.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

AMD 7000 series are OpenCL 1.1 and OpenCL 1.2 compliant. Nvidia is still behind the curve.

Apple will stick with AMD and the 7000 series.

 

[BTMKRS]

People REALLY have no idea how Movies are made , How Albums are produced do they ... You actually think they should QUIT making the Mac Pro ?

Consumers of Media & Creators of Media are not equal.
You need More power to Create a VideoGame than to PLAY one

Thunderbolt
USB 3 .. but who Cares
FW800
LIQUID COOLING like the Intel RTS2011LC !! yea I said it
Nvidia Graphics
Thunderbolt Display w/Apple TV embedded
Smaller chassis

DVD-R Drive Optional

 

[evalex]

Yikes. Starting at $1,149, roughly the same price as the baseline 21 inch iMac.
http://store.apple.com/us/product/H5184VC/A/Thunderbolt?n=raid&fnode=MTY1NDA0Nw&s=topSellers

Is there a cheaper option out there? Firewire perhaps?

TB stuff will get cheaper soon, once it becomes the standard on Intel boards (or else Intel will have really screwed the pooch on their shiny new Jesus standard).

And even though the Pegasus is expensive on paper, it works out better if you actually price everything out:

iMac:
TB box-$1200 (roughly)
27" iMac with all the fixins'-$2300
16gb RAM (not from Apple)- $200
TB cable- $50
....Comes out to $3,750 for a total system, including hard drives and a display that costs $1000 on its own.

Quad-core Mac Pro (we'll bump the CPU power up to more than 3ghz and throw in the best GPU you can currently get standard):
Base price-$3100 (roughly)
RAID card- $700
....You're already at $3800 and you have yet to buy RAM, other hard drives, or a display.

 

[apolloa]

Great, but IF Apple decide to update the Pro, will they actually give the entire thing it's much needed re-design? I know many of you don't care or think the current design is uber classic or something. But seriously, it needs changing, more then 4 drives bays for one thing would be good.

Personally I've never thought Apple would ditch the Pro range, and with the rumours we had about a re-design, I'm going to bank on it this time Still, can't help getting wet at the idea of 16 cores.... and if you add hyper threading onto it?? mmmmmm...... I think you could safely say that would give the Pro it's performance king crown back, well of the Mac range anyway. iMac who?

 

[jouster]

Let's see it Apple. So the Mac Pro doesn't make a lot of money for the company anymore… But what it does give Apple is much needed credibility with the professional community. Remember Apple, how we kept you alive through the dark years? We stayed by your deathbed, feeding you our hard-earned profits though a straw after Windows 95 did a hit and run on you.

We might be a small minority of your customers now, but we're still a passionate and vocal minority. I feel credibility within the pro market does filter down to consumers one way or another.

Again with this nonsense. The professional community deserted Apple in droves through the "dark years". That's why they were dark!

Apple was saved by, in order: the iMac, the consumer notebooks and the iPod. It prospered thanks to the iPod (again) and the iPhone/iPad, with the consumer computers along for the ride.

 

[devinci99]

What? Apple cant drop the Mac Pro's!!!

Without Mac Pro's what are developers going to use to develop Mac Apps? PCs?????

Even if this Apple is going to reduce count, BUT Apple needs to give developers a workstation platform to built App support for OSX, and iOS.

No, the 17" macbook pro aren't enough!!!

 

[iSayuSay]

I don't think they'll discontinue the MacPro, not now anyway.

They need it to sell Apple displays.

What? No .. as much as I'd like to see a new MacPro .. Apple doesn't really need MacPro to sell their display. Even now Apple Thunderbolt Display ironically cannot be used with MacPro. As of today you can only go for Apple Cinema Display if you own a MacPro and you want an Apple display.


Apple can magically sell Thunderbolt Display to some Macbook Pro/Air toyish computer just because it has MagSafe and Thunderbolt port.

Ou yeah Macbook Air is really really nothing compared to a MacPro, but they're the most popular Mac computer right now. Sad, huh?

People would just plug in their Macbook Air to ATD and think that they have pro-class desktop on their desk, well they're not!!

 

[zephonic]

Even now Apple Thunderbolt Display ironically cannot be used with MacPro.

That is why they need a new one!

 

[StefSSU]

1)"Yes, it is a niche. But so what?"...that's my whole argument about WHY Apple MAY CHOOSE to kill this line.

2)You are mistaken (this is the 2nd time I've told you)...the $2500 Mac is 4 Core. 4 Core. 4 Core. Go read it: http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro

3)As for comparing 12core workstations, no, I really don't have any history or comparing such machines...and I'm not going to bother...because now you're getting at the top of the line Macs for huge amounts of money...folks buying those are, again, needing it for niche uses.


Also, don't think the a/v world and publishing world heavily rely on the Mac. This isn't 1990. Wintel platforms stepped into those markets in the mid-90s and own the space...Mac no longer owns those spaces. A player? Yes.

Tim Berners Lee invented the World Wide Web on a "niche" NeXT computer. This is what I mean. The niche are those who create. As long as the area is profitable for Apple, and doesn't consume excessive resources, why not continue to take part?

I wasn't talking about the Quad core base MP for a very good reason - you're right, it doesn't represent great value IMO. This doesn't mean however that the same is true for the rest of the lineup. I mention the 8 and 12 core specifically as these machines use dual socket-able CPU's, something only possible with Xeon processors, therefore conveying how these machines cannot be compared to those with non-Xeon CPU's. But even comparing the base quad MP vs an iMac? Again, heat, low noise, multiple drive bays, no integrated screen (meaning keep existing screen across multiple computers), PCIe slots, non-mobile graphics, ECC memory, etc. The list goes on. In general, the components are of much higher quality, thus higher reliability too, and increased longevity especially through expansion.

Sure Apple will inevitably kill it off one day. Thunderbolt goes a long way towards this. But today that is not the reality. You do not get the same performance, and many configurations are simply impossible.

 

[wizard]

I doubt it.

Apple needs a whole new architecture to replace the Pro. The Pro approach to workstations is more than ten years old now. Instead Apple needs a platform that leverages current technology and is adaptable to all the new tech coming in the next few years.

Finally some love for the Pro?

 

[bretm]

Seen the amount of time and resources Apple has spent on OpenCL (like optimizing Final Cut X for it) I doubt the Nvidia move...

Either way, AMD or Nvidia, Apple has always seen substandard support from both in the high end market, maybe Apple could provide its own graphics (OpenGL 4++) - OpenCL Cards, instead of buying cards that were built with DirectX in mind.

Apple better start pushing its OpenGL platform forward with mountain lion because they seem to be the largest OpenGL mainstream supporter.

I'm running FCP X and 7 on 27" iMac i7 with 2Gb 6970 graphics card and 16gig ram with Pegasus thunderbolt raid. I get 6 RT streams of pnp with 7 and 5 with X. Same results as everyone else. So much for X and open CL. 7 also renders faster. So much for 64bit.

 

[aliensporebomb]

Or

Benchmark!? The game looks the SAME on Low as when it's on Ultra! What kind of benchmark is THAT!?

Measure something real, like how efficiently it can process works in Photoshop or Final Cut Pro.

Or how many virtual instruments, software plug-ins and tracks you can run in Logic.

Or, run X-Plane 10 with all options on and the machine doesn't break a sweat.

 

[petsounds]

1)"Yes, it is a niche. But so what?"...that's my whole argument about WHY Apple MAY CHOOSE to kill this line.

The creative industries I listed before are no more a 'niche' than they were 25 years ago when the Macintosh* created many of those industries. They've always been part of Apple's DNA because Steve Jobs wanted to encourage and empower creativity. To say they are niche just because in proportion to the profits of Apple's mobile division it is now small is misleading. The demand for the Mac Pro has not shrunk; it's just that the company has gotten massively bigger.

I think it would be a disservice to Steve Jobs' (original) legacy for Apple to turn their back on the pro market now. Besides, pragmatically speaking the iDevice area of the company can only grow for so long before demand is saturated. Having a diversified product line is good for the company, and as long as the Mac Pro still turns a profit for Apple I don't see why they'd abandon it. There would be a lot of professional users turning to Windows, and that halo effect might reach down further.

(*) - I'm going to start calling Macs the Macintosh again, taking Tim Cook's cue. Let's get some of the old-school love back.

 

[not1lost]

And no, you're not forced to go Dell, but give us an example. I've seen countless comparisons to Dell and HP in particular vs Mac Pro's and for the most part Apple is very competitive here price wise. .

My story about Dell... While continualy "upgrading" windows desktops to more and more disapointments. I currently have a Dell XPS 8300 Intel i7 2600 3.4GHz 12G Ram 2T 7200 HD Radeon 1G 5700 HD running win7 64. and have had nothing but trouble with it - even worse than other lesser machines...

 

[aliensporebomb]

i'll be getting one for my recording studio, replacing my 7-year old g5. the current one is fine, but it doesn't have the right pci type (need pci-e) and CPU (need intel) to get Pro Tools Native.

versus an imac, a mac pro will give me:

1. faster pci-e than i can get over thunderbolt
2. the ability to put it in another room, as it's noisy
3. the ability to get super low latency when recording
4. the convenience of putting my audio and s/fx drives in the same box as the system drive
5. the ability to really jack up the RAM in 5-7 years when it starts feeling slow

so yes, i really really really really do need more than what the imac or macmini can give me.

am i niche? i don't know, i just want to work w/ the fewest limits i can.

No you are on the right track. I've got my iMac i7 maxed out as far as ram goes and this one predates thunderbolt so my max I/O outside of the machine is either firewire 800 (far too slow for multichannel audio at the level I demand) or gigabit ethernet to another Mac and its SATA drives (still not much faster than Firewire 800 but a little better).

I'm not your typical rock and roll type application here - my original music is far more like soundtrack music, hundreds of tracks, all with multiple effects, virtual instruments like mad and a Corei7 is a nice processor but it's not a Xeon. I wore out my G5 tower and this is a stopgap measure until I can get a Pro.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the iPad, iPhone, and iPod are devices for content consumers. But we need power for content creation. You create an entire ecosystem and with no content to consume what's the point?

 

[sulpfiction]

Theres no excuse for completely ignoring the Mac Pro for the last 4 years. Apple's worth is now at half a trillion dollars. Theyve got over 80 billion dollars in cash.

So what if their iToys/iOS/iPhone are bringing in cash? How does that stop Apple from still putting any kind of attention to the Mac Pro?

I agree. In fact, I've been waiting for the new MBP for some time now myself...Cause I'm getting one. But once I do, I think it will be kinda nice to know that it's not going to change in a year. I keep up with the iPhones and iPads being released yearly, but I wouldn't wan to do that with my $1300 laptop. 2-3 years is a good window for the laptops, iMacs, etc. iOS devices are a different breed of product altogether (not to mention Apple's main cash cow). They need yearly refreshes and Apple knows most people don't mind updating yearly. But yes, I agree the MBP needs a refresh. And I think its coming sooner then later.

 

[kalsta]

Nobody cares about this minority, there is zero halo effect from the Mac Pro, stop patting yourself on the back, Apple doesn't owe you anything.

You've confused what you want to be the case with what is actually the case, like every other thread about Mac Pros where Real Users who do Real Professional Work express their boring sense of entitlement, bla bla bla

Aw… Wooks wike somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning… And then accidentally wandered into the wrong thread!

Again with this nonsense. The professional community deserted Apple in droves through the "dark years". That's why they were dark!

Let me guess, you're twenty-something?

Apple was saved by, in order: the iMac, the consumer notebooks and the iPod. It prospered thanks to the iPod (again) and the iPhone/iPad, with the consumer computers along for the ride.

You're quite right… Apple was saved by all those things after Steve Jobs returned in 1997. But you know what? Apple wouldn't even have made it to 1997 if it weren't for those of us who continued to fork out money for expensive machines from a company which we were constantly told had no future.

All you spoilt ingrates should be thanking us ol' timers, 'cos if no one was buying Macs through the 'dark years', there would be no iMac, no iPod, no iPhone and no iPad.

 

[Xtremehkr]

I hope this means that next generation iMac will include the following items:

30" retina display.
SSD drive standard for the OS w/ a 2nd HDD for content.
A 6 core processor. 8 cores would be even better.
32GB RAM capacity.
2 thunderbolt sockets.

Really though, it's time that the Mac Pro received some attention, it's been a long time coming.

 

[StefSSU]

My story about Dell... While continualy "upgrading" windows desktops to more and more disapointments. I currently have a Dell XPS 8300 Intel i7 2600 3.4GHz 12G Ram 2T 7200 HD Radeon 1G 5700 HD running win7 64. and have had nothing but trouble with it - even worse than other lesser machines...

Well I hate to break it to you but it's not all roses on the other side either. I prefer using macs yes, but that's mainly because their laptops are far superior to any of the competition, although I do like OS X. I'd be lying if I told you that I've never had any hardware or software problems. I've had many. Hardware wise, well the machines pretty much use the same internals these days, generally Apple stuff can be expected to be well tested, but that is not always the case. Software? Windows 7 is a massive improvement, and I thought it would be enough. But to be honest? Due to an HDD failure I was forced to run Win 7 exclusively for a few weeks. I hated it. It's a great OS, but IMO OS X is better.

You're probably going to have loads of issues at first, especially if you're new to OS X. But the nice thing is that it's generally easier to find a solution. The Mac community is great and really helpful (macrumors is an excellent forst stop), and especially if you have Applecare and live relatively near an Apple store the service is generally great.

The future of OS X and professional Macs is a bit worrying, but I wouldn't hesitate to try it. Just don't jump in expecting the perfect world the marketing preaches it to be. There are caveats, and even many ways that windows is simply better. At least you always have the option to run windows on a mac.