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I'll defend the last great Macs, the 2012 lineup!
I just bought a 2012 MACBOOK PRO I7 2.7 quad with a dvd drive 16 gigs ram for $850!
AWESOME! And I think removing the DVD drive was asinine.
Oh well, apple makes good phones.

IMO my late 2013 MBP is WAY better than my GF's 2012 model.

Thinner. Lighter. Faster. Much better screen.

It's not even a contest.
 
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They have iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, Apple TV, watch band, Air pod, adapters, battery case, jet black, car, emoji, sticker, Siri, music, spaceship, data center, tax, and lawsuit. I can see that they have no time for the Mac.
 
Maybe if MR didn't have "Don't buy" stickers beneath each of them, they'd sell more ;-)

That said, I bought a MB12 for work last month and I admit I did so because it was the only one recently updated. I would not have bought a Gen-1 MB12.
Though, on all other platforms, the increases in CPU and GPU power are less significant when comparing SkyLake/KabyLake and Haswell/Broadwell. So while it's two years old, the latest CPUs aren't much faster.
It's really more of a psychological problem.
You sound like you're trying to justify your outdated hardware.
 
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Something tells me that after Tim Cook invest 1 billion dollars toward Chinese version of uber and obtaining a seat as a board member says a lot about future of Apple....
So Tim Cook readily hands over a billion dollars for a Chinese taxi business, but only has about a dollar ninety-eight to invest in the Mac computer lineup.
Guess we see his priorities.
 
All storage will be cloud based?
Unfortunately, the same people who prefer iOS to MacOS (i.e.: mass market that actually don't need computers and when they use one is for tasks where computers are not necessary) tend to be people with very little care for their data. Yes, they'll shout loud and cheer Apple when they're playing pretending they defend the user's privacy against "evil government", but, the reality is, these users upload personal photos to Facebook without caring about copyright/legal issues, and they upload work documents to cloud services without reading the conditions first.

At the company I work for (with a size of a few thousand employees), a boss asked me to upload to a famous free cloud service a report which was too huge for email distribution. That report had confidential information in it. I asked my boss if we were allowed to do that, as we hadn't signed any confidentiality agreement with the cloud service. He replied "don't worry, it's ok, everybody is doing it".

So, yes, I see it quite possible that all/most storage in the future will be cloud based, while future users will learn they lost ownership rights over their very own files.
 
With all the emoji updates and the horrible full screen "Happy Birthday" messages, Ild say so... Our once beloved fruit company has become a high end toy company :(



That would be incredible and help restore some faith back to Apple, it seems that toys are the only thing they care about anymore... New Mac Pro anyone?

Next Mac Pro, "Toaster". We'll go from trash to toast. The cues are already there. It's like an inside joke. I bet Tim said we'll tell them we're trashing the Mac Pro by making it look like a trash can.

Next model, this is it, last Mac Pro, then it's toast. We'll even make it look like a toaster. See if our users are smart enough to figure it out.

D@mm, they still want more??? O.k. This should make it clear. Tim Cook goes on stage, announces that they've finally updated the Mac Pro. Grabs a piece of paper, wads it up in a ball, says here's your Mac Pro, throws the ball of paper at the audience, and stomps off the stage.
 
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If everyone I chat with only had iMessage I wouldn't leave but that's not the case for me so no big deal.

Outside of the US nobody uses SMS. Most people just use Whatsapp which has a cross platform desktop and web client.
 
By making generic PCs?
Not necessary to move to generic PCs. The previous generations of the Mac Pro showed it is possible to deliver a good custom design while providing compatibility with off-the-shelf PC components. If the Mac Pro had been continued with new models of the previous generation, we would be using the Pascal Titan X on MacOS today. So, the argument of the OP, telling he would easily put the Mac in motion if he was in charge, is actually true: It was easier to reinforce the professional use of the Mac than to trash it. Trashing it has been expensive (the $$$ spent in a custom cylinder plus the $$$ lost in sales).

Note, that I'm a defender of the design in the new Mac Pro (I love the concept of having just one silent fan while also having a discrete GPU), but not as a Mac Pro replacement, but as a Mac Mini replacement. The "cylinder" should have been the solution for putting powerful GPUs in the Mac Mini, while the Mac Pro should have been continued in its previous form factor, targeted at >=8 CPU cores, and to 2, 4 or more graphics cards.
 
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Actually, it makes perfect sense. If Cook only cared about money, he would focus on phones and let Mac die. Which HE IS DOING!
Everything Apple has today is thanks to the strong, stable, easy OSX of 2005-2007. It all flowed from that. IOS started as a scaled back version of OSX. Today, OSX is a modified version of IOS.

It's like Cook, Ive and Ferengi think "all this fruit is awesome, why do we still need THE TREE. Chop it down!" Apple is no longer in the computer business. Apple is a company that makes phones. Why would you buy a computer from a phone company?? ( that's coming from somebody who has NEVER bought a Windows computer) Larry Ellison was right.

Except that 5 million computer sales made them around $2B in profit.
So if all they are interested in is money, they will keep the computer department going...
 
I know many small businesses tend to replace they're MacBooks every 2-3 years regardless of what's being sold.
That's because accounting wise, they've fully depreciated the asset and so, it lost its value. Many businesses do this, every 3 to 5 years.
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Except that 5 million computer sales made them around $2B in profit.
So if all they are interested in is money, they will keep the computer department going...
Yes, Apple is making too much money with mac, and even if they kill it off, that means they're even more reliant on iPhone sales which is something wall street hates seeing (majority of revenue coming from a single product).
 
Well, from the looks of this thread I think Tim Cook may have Apple Mac users figured just right: most people are quite happy to chug along with outdated hardware - once the hardware runs Max OS X and it looks cool. I cannot fathom how people can do this but maybe Apple users really just don't need up-to-date hardware, as this thread suggests. I did, and I stopped buying Apple computers in 2012. It was really no big deal. Yes, people are grumpy with no updates but if one really needed fast computing, just move to PC: no fuss needed. Just look at the Mac Pro forum folks (of which I was one) - the forum is a ghost town compared to a decade ago. Why? Everybody who had real computing needs moved to comparatively far superior workstations from Dell, HP and Boxx.

I take umbrage to those who post that PC offerings are 'rubbish' compared to the vaunted Mac. This is nonsense. Buy from a PC manufacturer's premium or workstation lines and be done with it. Oh, and the computers come with 3 year on-site technical support standard if one ever needs it. I've been using Dell Precision and HP Z workstations since I left Apple and they have all been exemplary. Notably, even my Mac Pro 5,1 needed a repair from Apple. A computer is a computer.
I don't take issue with what you wrote except to express my dismay at you (and others) using the term "PC" to mean "a non-OSX PC", which is inexact and confusing.

PC is an acronym for "personal computer", and as such, everything with macOS or OSX ever delivered, except for their server products, was a PC. Perhaps we can further split the difference in PCs and Workstations, if you want.

It makes no sense to use it meaning a "computer running Windows as OS", since, by the historical account, the original IBM-PC was running DOS to begin with, which nobody uses anymore. On top of that, many people run Linux on their PCs.

More to the point, the modern Mac computers are technically IBM-compatible PCs, in the modern sense, that they can run Windows and Linux as well. DOS won't run on them because it lacks support for UEFI - also many non-Macs today are in the same situation.
 
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This above all else stops me from leaving Apple. I have a work 2015 XPS 13 touch infinity display. This notebook is amazing. The display is wonderful. But I cannot for the life of me get the trackpad to my liking. Highlighting is wrong, seemingly random selections and a right click/left click area that seems to change in size. Overall a terrible experience even after fiddling with available driver adjustments.

Then I get on my MBP 2013 and have zero mistakes operating the mouse. Until someone can make a trackpad setup that truly mimics Apple's device, I'll stick with the macs.
 
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serious question as I do not know for sure, but does apple make and computers or laptops that are upgradable anymore?

almost all of Apple computers are now using soldered on RAM and CPU modules. None of their current laptops can upgrade the storage (officially, there are some unofficial upgrades from 3rd parties that require you dismantling your MBA or MBP to upgrade)

The mac mini in 2014 switched to the soldered on RAM and CPU, and then moved the hard drive bay to a very inconvenient location so that it's more difficult to upgrade.

The iMac's are the only computer device that can have RAM upgraded. Though I'm not sure how easy / hard it is. Neither do I know about the hard drive status in these.

the Mac Pro has no upgrade paths, though you can swap in more RAM.
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Unfortunately, the same people who prefer iOS to MacOS (i.e.: mass market that actually don't need computers and when they use one is for tasks where computers are not necessary) tend to be people with very little care for their data. Yes, they'll shout loud and cheer Apple when they're playing pretending they defend the user's privacy against "evil government", but, the reality is, these users upload personal photos to Facebook without caring about copyright/legal issues, and they upload work documents to cloud services without reading the conditions first.

At the company I work for (with a size of a few thousand employees), a boss asked me to upload to a famous free cloud service a report which was too huge for email distribution. That report had confidential information in it. I asked my boss if we were allowed to do that, as we hadn't signed any confidentiality agreement with the cloud service. He replied "don't worry, it's ok, everybody is doing it".

So, yes, I see it quite possible that all/most storage in the future will be cloud based, while future users will learn they lost ownership rights over their very own files.
in the line of business i'm in, if anyone EVER recommended using public cloud services for our data, they'd be walked out the door.
 
I don't take issue with what you wrote except to express my dismay at you (and others) using the term "PC" to mean "a non-OSX PC", which is inexact and confusing.

PC is an acronym for "personal computer", and as such, everything with macOS or OSX ever delivered, except for their server products, was a PC. Perhaps we can further split the difference in PCs and Workstations, if you want.

It makes no sense to use it meaning a "computer running Windows as OS", since, by the historical account, the original IBM-PC was running DOS to begin with, which nobody uses anymore. On top of that, many people run Linux on their PCs.

More to the point, the modern Mac computers are technically IBM-compatible PCs, in the modern sense, that they can run Windows and Linux as well. DOS won't run on them because it lacks support for UEFI - also many non-Macs today are in the same situation.

While I agree with most of your post, I don't think anyone would be confused by the Mac vs PC distinction. Even Apple uses that paradigm, most obviously on the "Hello, I'm a Mac..and I'm a PC ads". Modern Macs are both Macs and PCs.

Your primary argument, while factual, falls into the same category of "the iPad is a computer" argument many like to poit out.

I believe we should keep the lines clear and distinct, just for the sake of simple communication, without having to go through this splitting-hairs exercise.
 
While I agree with most of your post, I don't think anyone would be confused by the Mac vs PC distinction. Even Apple uses that paradigm, most obviously on the "Hello, I'm a Mac..and I'm a PC ads". Modern Macs are both Macs and PCs.

Your primary argument, while factual, falls into the same category of "the iPad is a computer" argument many like to poit out.

I believe we should keep the lines clear and distinct, just for the sake of simple communication, without having to go through this splitting-hairs exercise.
I disagree. There's confusion here. For me a PC is just that, a personal computer. My Macbook is a PC. The confusion arises from the fact that some people use "PC" - the article here included - to mean "personal computer", some use it meaning "Windows computer" and some (I take it, you) use it meaning "non-OSX computer".

When you talk about Apple's ads, I think that you bought into their clever marketing to differentiate where differentiation doesn't exist the way they portray it.
 
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IMO my late 2013 MBP is WAY better than my GF's 2012 model.

Thinner. Lighter. Faster. Much better screen.

It's not even a contest.

I'd venture to say that stock vs stock, the 2013 with the SSD will be faster, no question.

But the issue is that that is a machine stuck in time, due to it's inability to be upgraded.

I have a 2011 17-inch and a 2012 15-inch hi-res that I've upgraded to max RAM (16 GB) and 2 each 1TB drives in RAID 0. I have a lot of storage and speed (although not quite as fast as an SSD). But, once I decide to, I can upgrade the spinners to 2 SSDs in RAID 0. Good luck beating a machine like that speed-wise.

Thus, I have both zero Retina-Mac envy. But I can live with slighly thicker and heavier...
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I disagree. There's confusion here. For me a PC is just that, a personal computer. My Macbook is a PC. The confusion arises from the fact that some people use "PC" - the article here included - to mean "personal computer", some use it meaning "Windows computer" and some (I take it, you) use it meaning "non-OSX computer".

When you talk about Apple's ads, I think that you bought into their clever marketing to differentiate where differentiation doesn't exist the way they portray it.

Well, were not talking about what you choose to believe.

At least in the US, the term "PC" is liberally used to identify a "non-Mac" computer in the common vernacular. You see it in print, all over the media and tech circles used this way. Even here in MacRumors, there's several articles that use the "PC" term in this fashion. This is the reason why Apple used it in their ads, as well, no "buying into clever marketing" necessary. Good luck trying to get people to not use "PC" in that fashion.

Thus, a Mac is a (p)ersonal (c)omputer. And yes, a (current) Mac is also a PC.
 
I know many small businesses tend to replace they're MacBooks every 2-3 years regardless of what's being sold.

It'd be sad if they ended up with exactly the same machine again because Apple hadn't updated it.


Yep, lots of small businesses have the money to replace perfectly good machines after 2-3 years without even looking at what they're buying or making a business case for why the new machines will help their business. Makes perfect sense.
 
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