Mac Shipments Down in Q4 2019 Amid Overall PC Market Growth

[georgB]

All these rave posts about how well Apple’s doing, and how wonderful many of their other products are - all true - neither explain nor excuse why Apple is producing such ho-hum Macs (a generous description). Indeed, since they can make all this other wonderful stuff, there’s no question that they could produce wonderful Macs (again, BTW) if they wanted to.

To massage an analogy mentioned above, it’s as if the Ferrari company started making dynamite sunglasses with AI, jackets which shed water better than ducks, self-lacing driving shoes, even commissioning operas and a Dolce Vita remake, all with the Ferrari logo, while the newest car, still adorned with the Ferrari emblem and still painted shiny Rosso Scuderia, has all the oomph of a 10-year-old Oldsmobile.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

neither explain nor excuse why Apple is producing such ho-hum Macs

The explanation is that Apple will eventually EOL the Mac. SO they aren’t making Macs cutting edge, they’re making them ”good enough to sell a few million a year”.

there’s no question that they could produce wonderful Macs (again, BTW) if they wanted to.

I’m in agreement with you here. Apple clearly doesn’t want to.

Additionally, imagine in your example that the Ferrari is the Apple II and the jackets were the Mac. Apple could make simply the most powerful Apple II ever made and release it tomorrow, but it would be the best of a thing that no one wants... ok, fair enough, SOME folks would buy it for sentimental reasons, I’m sure!

 

[Peperino]

Man, this 5400rpm thing is like the end of the world to you isn't it?

Not the end, but pretty bad, especially when you consider that we are in 2020, computer line up is overpriced for the specs they deliver and Tim Cook says it is going to be the best "Ever".
I guess i was used to what the old Apple standards used to be many years ago. Not anymore.
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Yeah, but doesn’t that matter MOST to the person buying the Ferrari? If people like it and want it and buy it, does that hurt your feelings?

First, no one is talking about feelings. Secondly, a person that wants to buy a Ferrari, and spend that kind of money, will not be interested if it has a 2 cylinder.

No, it means they have a solid grasp on how companies sunset older products as they mature newer products. People forget that Apple has killed their number one product before, the Apple II. They will eventually EOL the Mac. They will eventually EOL iOS/iPadOS. They will eventually EOL whatever comes after that with the NEXT big thing.

We are not talking about killing a single product. We are talking about the lack of innovation on the entire computer line up.
That Apple killed the Apple II, (and by the way, you repeated this useless point several times already), it does not mean they stop making computers. Actually, FYI they just released a Mac Pro and in the meantime Apple released many other new versions of Macintosh SE, iMacs, Macbooks, Towers, etc.
So your point about the Apple II is complete nonsense.

 

[georgB]

People forget that Apple has killed their number one product before, the Apple II. They will eventually EOL the Mac. They will eventually EOL iOS/iPadOS. They will eventually EOL whatever comes after that with the NEXT big thing.

Telling only part of a story in order to spin it your way isn't very honest. You can't be ignorant of the fact that when Apple EOL'd the Apple// it wasn't to EOL computers, but because they came out with a better computer, the Mac. And for many years after that, Macs kept improving (with only a few stumbles along the way), state-of-the-art, more capable. What we're now facing is the impression that Apple may be considering EOL-ing computers altogether.

They may still make the "next big thing" with other products, and that may even make Apple an even more successful company, but it seems like for some reason computers no longer make business sense for Apple. Nobody outside Cupertino really knows why, since Apple certainly has the know-how to make whiz-bang computers if they wanted to. Maybe the profit margin has become too low because of the competition. If that's the case, I wish they'd simply spin the Mac department off completely and let it develop on its own, rather than making sure it bleeds to death, which is what's happening now.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

First, no one is talking about feelings. Secondly, a person that wants to buy a Ferrari, and spend that kind of money, will not be interested if it has a 2 cylinder.

I am absolutely talking about feelings. Your strong feelings for/about a corporate entity that doesn’t do things you like is why you’re posting. You want other people to feel the same way you feel and that’s going to be hard to do. Because, in the end, most people really aren’t bothered by a 5400 drive. They just aren’t. But, if you would rather not talk about your feelings, I’ll just end that line of discussion.

Secondly, a person that wants to buy a Ferrari, and spend that kind of money, and are interested in a 2 cylinder, will buy it. A person that wants to buy a Ferrari, and spend that kind of money, and are NOT interested in a 2 cylinder will NOT buy it. And, it wouldn’t hurt my feelings either way.

We are not talking about killing a single product.

I am talking about macOS EOL, YOU are not OR don’t want to because talking about killing the Mac makes you uncomfortable. I try not to mention killing the Mac when responding to you in the future.

What we're now facing is the impression that Apple may be considering EOL-ing computers altogether.

Not EOL-ing computers, EOL-ing a specific form factor supported by macOS. iOS and iPadOS is just another OS on another computer. In the beginning, people thought the Mac wasn’t a “computer” because it didn’t have an easily accessible command line and didn’t ship with BASIC. Now, people have attached “mouse and keyboard” interface to what it means to be a “computer” so they don’t see the iPad as a computer. But, when you look at what it takes to make one, graphics chips, cpu’s, storage, RAM, an iPad is as much of a computer as the Apple II was.

Maybe the profit margin has become too low because of the competition. If that's the case, I wish they'd simply spin the Mac department off completely and let it develop on its own, rather than making sure it bleeds to death, which is what's happening now.

The profit margin on Macs is still pretty healthy. Even though they sell WAY more iPads, the profit for iPad and macOS has been roughly the same. No, I think this is more about slowly clearing the deck, making a few more millions off of people that still want to buy Macs, even the ones that include with 5400 drives.

 

[Peperino]

They may still make the "next big thing" with other products, and that may even make Apple an even more successful company, but it seems like for some reason computers no longer make business sense for Apple. Nobody outside Cupertino really knows why, since Apple certainly has the know-how to make whiz-bang computers if they wanted to. Maybe the profit margin has become too low because of the competition. If that's the case, I wish they'd simply spin the Mac department off completely and let it develop on its own, rather than making sure it bleeds to death, which is what's happening now.

Agree 200%.
If they do not want to develop the computer line up, then the least Apple can do is to make the Mac OS open, so we can use it somewhere else.

 

[alzatron]

I recently purchased a new (Made in USA) Mac Pro for my home, and I love it. I'm surprised Mac sales are as good as they are considering that Apple does virtually no advertising for the Mac anymore. I am bombarded with advertising for iPhone, but there appears to be near zero promotion of the Mac.

Considering the huge engineering effort in the 2019 Mac Pro it seems like Apple would like to sell some. I'm very satisfied with my new Mac, but as a Apple shareholder I don't understand why they don't spend a little money promoting the Mac platform.

 

[smirking]

Considering the huge engineering effort in the 2019 Mac Pro it seems like Apple would like to sell some. I'm very satisfied with my new Mac, but as a Apple shareholder I don't understand why they don't spend a little money promoting the Mac platform.

The retail stores do a lot of talking and the target customer for a Mac Pro isn't carting them off to be a home computer. It's an industry computer. Those people know what's out there.

 

[chucker23n1]

People forget that Apple has killed their number one product before, the Apple II.

Sure, but at that point, the Mac II line was out, and was better than the Apple II in virtually every way. For a few years, the Mac couldn’t quite be a truck yet, but that has been long resolved (see Gruber’s mention of MPW, for instance).

We don’t have that for the iPad. The iPad isn’t faster than the Mac Pro. The iPad doesn’t have a self-hosting IDE. The iPad can’t be used in complex multi-monitor setups. It can’t be a truck.

I think for a while, they were chasing the Jobs-ian disruption that would have killed off the Mac in favor of the iPad. That era saw flawed OS release like Lion and strange products like the 2013 Mac Pro. But they’ve done a course correction, and I don’t believe they’re chasing that simplification any more. They’ve realized that the original Jobs slide had it more right: the iPad fits between the iPhone and Mac for many use cases, but doesn’t replace either for all of them.

Does the mean the Mac is forever? Probably not. Instead, both the Mac and the iPad might eventually get replaced by a unified platform, a lot like the aspiration of Windows 8, but hopefully far better executed.
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Not the end, but pretty bad, especially when you consider that we are in 2020, computer line up is overpriced for the specs they deliver and Tim Cook says it is going to be the best "Ever".

Yeah! Remember when nobody called Macs ”overpriced” and execs didn’t overuse superlatives? Those were the days.

Wait, when was that?

 

[georgB]

Sure, but at that point, the Mac II line was out, and was better than the Apple II in virtually every way. For a few years, the Mac couldn’t quite be a truck yet, but that has been long resolved (see Gruber’s mention of MPW, for instance).

We don’t have that for the iPad. The iPad isn’t faster than the Mac Pro. The iPad doesn’t have a self-hosting IDE. The iPad can’t be used in complex multi-monitor setups. It can’t be a truck.

I think for a while, they were chasing the Jobs-ian disruption that would have killed off the Mac in favor of the iPad. That era saw flawed OS release like Lion and strange products like the 2013 Mac Pro. But they’ve done a course correction, and I don’t believe they’re chasing that simplification any more. They’ve realized that the original Jobs slide had it more right: the iPad fits between the iPhone and Mac for many use cases, but doesn’t replace either for all of them.

Does the mean the Mac is forever? Probably not. Instead, both the Mac and the iPad might eventually get replaced by a unified platform, a lot like the aspiration of Windows 8, but hopefully far better executed.

Well said!!! Certainly echos my hopes, and probably those of many others here and out there.

 

[Peperino]

I recently purchased a new (Made in USA) Mac Pro for my home, and I love it. I'm surprised Mac sales are as good as they are considering that Apple does virtually no advertising for the Mac anymore. I am bombarded with advertising for iPhone, but there appears to be near zero promotion of the Mac.

Considering the huge engineering effort in the 2019 Mac Pro it seems like Apple would like to sell some. I'm very satisfied with my new Mac, but as a Apple shareholder I don't understand why they don't spend a little money promoting the Mac platform.

Very simple.
1- The Mac sales are 7% of the total sales. So marketing wise will make more sense to put marketing money on iPhone and wearables.
2- Except the Mac Pro (which is unaffordable), there is nothing about the computer line up that is truly worth advertising. The MacBook Pro, they just fixed a big issue with the Keyboard after 4 years, and still is an all soldered non upgradable computer for a $2700 price. THe iMac is a 10years old design, and the Mac Mini has heating issues and quite overpriced for what it is.
So I understand why they will not spend money promoting the Macs. There is not much to promote...

 

[Unregistered 4U]

We don’t have that for the iPad. The iPad isn’t faster than the Mac Pro. The iPad doesn’t have a self-hosting IDE. The iPad can’t be used in complex multi-monitor setups. It can’t be a truck.

Now that I think about it, the Apple // couldn't be a truck either.

We didn't have that with the Mac, but eventually got there. I mean, there's nothing in the list you provided that absolutely couldn't be done on the iPad. Once there, then the utility for the Mac will have evaporated.

I'm just saying, someone sitting in front of a Mac, thinking it's forever is very similar to someone sitting in front of an Apple // thinking IT is forever. Based on the way Apple operates, it's a safe assumption that they will do what they've done before, improve the feature set of their current system until what it CAN do far outweighs what it CAN'T do, then they get rid of the older system. We saw some of this with the OS9 to OS X transition as well. Features were added to OS X until using it was worth some of the lingering pain points, then they gave the axe to OS9.

 

[georgB]

Now that I think about it, the Apple // couldn't be a truck either.

We didn't have that with the Mac, but eventually got there. I mean, there's nothing in the list you provided that absolutely couldn't be done on the iPad. Once there, then the utility for the Mac will have evaporated.

I'm just saying, someone sitting in front of a Mac, thinking it's forever is very similar to someone sitting in front of an Apple // thinking IT is forever. Based on the way Apple operates, it's a safe assumption that they will do what they've done before, improve the feature set of their current system until what it CAN do far outweighs what it CAN'T do, then they get rid of the older system. We saw some of this with the OS9 to OS X transition as well. Features were added to OS X until using it was worth some of the lingering pain points, then they gave the axe to OS9.

I'd have no problem with a replacement for the Mac, like an iPad or something similar or even something completely new, provided it could do at least everything I can do with my Mac now (and, sure, more would be even better). I don't need a huge screen for what I regularly do, so the current iPad sizes would be fine. I mostly write, do many spreadsheets, give Keynote presentations, and do an occasional not-too-professional movie - and, of course, the other usual computer stuff like email and browsing - so altogether my needs are pretty pedestrian.

The hardware would have to include a real keyboard, or a solution with all the touch and feel and functions of a real keyboard. I could possibly get used to a somewhat different feel, but the flat-glass of the current iPad/iPhone doesn't do. I prefer a trackball rather than a trackpad, and I need it (it could possibly be built-in, as it was on one of the earlier Macs), and I'd be unhappy without it. I need to be able to attach things, like my external backup drives and a CD player, and I'd be unhappy if I had to buy dongles, and have to give up an otherwise needed I/O slot. I don't need great sound, but it should be good enough. It would need to have enough storage and enough RAM to allow me to work reasonably efficiently. There may be more I haven't thought of off-hand.

The OS and all the other software I use would also have to be able to do all that the MacOS can; again, at least as much, as least as well - and more would be better. iOS can't do that so far.

So, bottom line, if the Mac were discontinued, only to be replaced with something better, I'd probably love it. But AFAIK so far the only such so-called replacements are vaporware - for me, at least.

If anyone out there can tell me that I'm wrong - that since I have very little hands-on experience with the iPad I'm hopelessly uninformed - and that I can have all of the above right now, I'd be beholden to you, and I'd be on my way to the Apple store tomorrow morning. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The hardware would have to include a real keyboard, or a solution with all the touch and feel and functions of a real keyboard.

I see it like this. There were people that were ONLY comfortable with command line back in the day. Their brains generated pathways based on that way of working and, while some were able to come to grips with the GUI, some never did. It’s the same now. People have a very specific way of interacting with computers and they’ll likely never be familiar with anything else. Millions more are using some sort of touch interface as their main computing device every day and have become acclimated to it. They don’t know about “touch and feel and functions of a real keyboard” as they’ve been NOT using a keyboard for years.

The Mac could stay around and continue to be sold to people that want to buy it (they may trend upwards in price) because there’s money to be made. BUT, they will likely stop making improvements. I don’t think that’ll be a downside, though, because by that time the folks left will likely just want “the same thing I bought 5 years ago, just faster.” That, to them will ALWAYS be better than any iPad.

 

[georgB]

The Mac could stay around and continue to be sold to people that want to buy it (they may trend upwards in price) because there’s money to be made. BUT, they will likely stop making improvements. I don’t think that’ll be a downside, though, because by that time the folks left will likely just want “the same thing I bought 5 years ago, just faster.” That, to them will ALWAYS be better than any iPad.

So I guess the only question left for me is what reaches EOL first, me or the Mac?

 

[HandITOVER]

SMH.