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Mac Shipments Down in Q4 2019 Amid Overall PC Market Growth
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Reading over this thread, I see Mac users who are disappointed and Mac fans. The former seem to pointing to reasons why Mac shipments (and sales) are declining while PC sales have gone up; the latter seem to want to put some kind of spin on the report, so it won’t look so bad, maybe even good.
I’m in the disappointed camp, and I don’t really understand the fans. Two raters, Gartner and IDC, who seem to be legitimate, made roughly the same finding, so it seems that it’s probably true. I have no criticism of the fans’ support of Apple and love of the Mac. In fact, though disappointed, I’m still pretty happy with the Mac I have.
But the fans seem to be ignoring a fundamental fact: today’s Macs are losing out to the competition. That’s not an indicator of an irresistible blockbuster product. That’s a shame and a big problem, because Macs once were. And we, the disappointed, can’t “just get over it”.
I’m in the disappointed camp, and I don’t really understand the fans. Two raters, Gartner and IDC, who seem to be legitimate, made roughly the same finding, so it seems that it’s probably true. I have no criticism of the fans’ support of Apple and love of the Mac. In fact, though disappointed, I’m still pretty happy with the Mac I have.
But the fans seem to be ignoring a fundamental fact: today’s Macs are losing out to the competition. That’s not an indicator of an irresistible blockbuster product. That’s a shame and a big problem, because Macs once were. And we, the disappointed, can’t “just get over it”.
Because people would rather have PC’s and iPads (that are also selling better than Macs) than Macs.
Just remember, a big chunk of that competition is iOS and iPadOS.
The Apple II was also once an irresistable blockbuster product. The iPod was also once an irresistible blockbuster product. Things NEVER stay blockbusters or irresistible forever.
ANd yet you are the only one that thinks that this is the best Apple line up in years.
You keep making lame excuses that a 10 year old external design (iMac) is a classic. Trying to excuse the inexcusable is laughable. No matter how you dress it, a pig is still a pig.
Bezels, not able to adjust vertical positions, heating, among some of the issues. The External design of the Surface Studio, is so much better. You can tilt, has a touchscreen, you can draw on it, but unfortunately has a Windows OS.
And the so called "Best" is shipping with a 5400rpm drives in 2019-20, that cannot even be upgraded ...
I like the double standard of the Apple blind lovers, that praise Apple for USB-C but do not critic when they are still shipping dinosaurs with 5400rpm.
It is like buying a Hummer truck... that no ones wants.
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Why does this bother you so? I mean, one should not tie their happiness to whether or not some faceless corporation is using a slow HD, should they? I mean, if I were in the market for one (most people aren’t, they want mobile devices), I wouldn’t buy one with a 5400rpm drive. But, other than just realizing it’s not for me, I don’t care if OTHER folks are fine with it.
Well come on. It IS the best lineup in years if for no other reason that their lineups for the past 5-10 years have been fairly weak. Can you think of the last time when they had a viable entry at every level of the market from entry level to professional industry level machines?
I actually think some of the people who are griping the loudest may actually be more emotionally invested in Apple than the people who are trying to rationalize the company's current direction. As is the case with sports fans, the ones who are the most vocal are often not haters, but jersey wearing supporters who feel like they've been let down one time too many... but yet they still can't quit the team.
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It really is the best lineup in years. I mean, really, they could have kept EVERYTHING exactly like it was, but replace the Trashcan Mac Pro with the Modular Mac Pro, and that makes the lineup better.
Then again, I guess “better” needs to be defined. If by ”better” you mean ”exactly the same in every way as it was 7 or more years ago, BUT half the cost” then I can see why you don’t consider this better.
The only reason it bothers me is because Apple always preaches about to be "The Best", quality product and That users have to pay premium prices for Apple products.
And delivering a product in 2020 with a 5400rpm drive is like Driving a Hummer that is a gas hogger rather than driving a Tesla.
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How is it better to deliver an Unaffordable product?It really is the best lineup in years. I mean, really, they could have kept EVERYTHING exactly like it was, but replace the Trashcan Mac Pro with the Modular Mac Pro, and that makes the lineup better.
It is like creating a Gucci suit for 10,k for people that buy at Zara,
So, some faceless corporation say they’re “The Best”. They’re not. I mean, there are a LOT of companies out there that refer to themselves as “The Best”. Each and every one of those companies cause you distress? Or, is it specifically just Apple?
Is it the best lineup? Objectively, and logically, since everything is either the same or better than the previous year, yes. (and there’s no one out there making Macs to compare against) However, if the “best lineup“ to you means that everyone should be able to buy one of everything they make, then it absolutely is not the best lineup.
Fortunately, for the cost conscious, the iPad line is much less expensive. It’s not hard to see why so many are finding those as suitable replacements. Macs will continue to sell less and less until they aren’t being sold anymore. THEN, you won’t have to get an ulcer about Macs shipping with 5400 drives anymore!
1) You mean like Logic Pro X and Final Cut Pro X? FaceTime? Messages? GarageBand? Pages? Numbers? Keynote? But like you mention, many buy Mac just to get the OS.
2) 90-95% of Apple customers don’t want a headless Mac. Apple made the mini more attractive by beefing up the specs. Yes, they discontinued lower performing SKUs. But as I said, they effectively cut the price on the entry level 8/128 config.
The mini’s got two USB3 and four Thunderbolt 3 ports, so if you want to add cheap USB storage, do it. If you want a larger internal boot drive, you’ll have to pay Apple’s prices
The base model CPU is perfectly fine, but you can upgrade if you wish. If you don’t want or need MacOS, you can probably save money buying a PC, it’s been that way for decades 🤷♂️ (Similarly, if you don’t want an iPhone, you can save money buying an Android.)
3) What you call stale, others call timeless. Smaller bezels isn’t innovation. Apple sells 2-3 million a year and it’s the number one machine used by pros. If innovative design is your priority, perhaps an all-in-one PC would suit you better. Have you found something innovative from another company that you’d rather have?
4) Most Apple customers seem to want a combination of thin, light, quiet and powerful, with great battery life. Many of these features are mutually exclusive. You can’t have all five.
If you’re not satisfied by anything Apple offers, that’s unfortunate. It’s not possible to please all customers, but Apple tries to offer the best solution that satisfies the most customers.
Apple targets the 80-90% customer, so if your requirements fall outside of those that satisfy 80-90% of customers, you might find your needs better met by another manufacturer. (The same thing applies to iPhone, iPad, AirPods, the Watch or any other product Apple sells.)
Apple makes products that many love, and they’ve proven time and again they try to improve where they fall short. But for various reasons, they aren’t the best solution for all customers.
Buyers are very discriminating, and they will—and should—buy other products if another manufacturer’s suit them better. Competition is great, and forces Apple to constantly improve. That’s the beauty of the free market.
1) I can't speak for Logic Pro, but FCP has its users but its not a reason to make you buy the Mac. My understanding that many people do prefer Adobe Priemere and Avid. Face Time and Messenger are nothing special there are million and one apps that do exactly the same for free. Pages, Keynote, Numbers...you might have heard about something that 90% of the world uses called Microsoft Office and its Competitor Google Docs both which you don't need to buy Mac hardware to run and have free versions.
2) So you want me to buy extra-separate-storage for a brand new $800 machine?
With that attitude, Apple sure will be gaining a customer loyalty.The mini’s got two USB3 and four Thunderbolt 3 ports, so if you want to add cheap USB storage, do it. If you want a larger internal boot drive, you’ll have to pay Apple’s prices
3) So by saying timeless design, Apple has reached perfection? So it stagnated, right? There is no more moving forward or can be improved.
4)
You seem to be convinced that Apple has been doing its best ever. Let me write down to you the title of this article again.
Mac Shipments Down in Q4 2019 Amid Overall PC Market Growth
Yes, that’s the title of the article, and yes, it’s true. In addition, what the article doesn’t mention, but it’s part of the sales story, is that whereas in years past many users and organizations often switched to Macs, not only is that no longer happening, but many Mac users (who formerly would have been return customers) are themselves switching to Windows machines.
Yet it seems there’s considerable cognitive dissonance on display here, taking various forms:
Fake news. (perhaps the single most-used trope nowadays in many areas - climate change, politics, etc.)
New Macs are obviously better. Why? Because they’re newer than older ones.
The customer base may be shrinking, but the quality of the remaining customers is much better.
Down is the new up.
I don't see this site as being fanbois vs haters as is often believed. Those two types exist, but they're in the vast minority.
We've got complainers and explainers. The complainers are usually mislabeled as haters. The explainers are often misunderstood to be fanbois.
I know, I know, if you're still trying to rationalize why failure is success, then you might as well be a fanboi because you're unwilling to accept that your hero is a fraud.
Well, yeah, but if everything is so awful how can the chart below also be true?
If they're failing on all counts, shouldn't this chart be going the other way or at least look a lot flatter? All the things people are complaining about in this thread have been complained about ad nauseum for years and yet the reckoning keeps getting postponed to next year and then next year and then...
The complainers will eventually be right, but until then don't write off people who are simply trying to rationalize how one unnamed company could be the subject of so much scorn, yet continue to do quite well year after year.
They may not be doing right by you or for you, but clearly they're doing something right.
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As I said earlier, as a company, Apple's doing great, my stock, which I began buying when Steve Jobs was a boy, has been a fantastic investment, and in that regard I'm pleased as punch. But the money they're making hand over fist today comes from most of the other stuff they've created. The Mac used to contribute a lot more to this, but no longer, for a while now.
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The thread isn't about apple failing on counts, but rather reporting that Mac shipments shrank at a time when the industry saw growth.
I've not read through the entire 11 pages, but overall, I see people providing their opinions on the cause (price, keyboards etc) and others trying to justify that it doesn't matter or discounting the numbers completely.
My opinion is that apple is over-priced, coupled with the keyboard issues their reputation of producing a premium product was tarnished.
The CPUs offered are the i3-8100B, i5-8500B and i7-8700B, respectively 4C/4T, 6C/6T and 6C/12T and all full 65W desktop CPUs. Temps and integrated graphics definitely seem to be where it struggles, though, so maybe it would actually be better off if it was running mobile components.
Apple as a company is doing strong because of the iphone, the services and the wearables. However the computer line is the weakest section of Apple currently.
Yes, I’ve “heard” of Microsoft office, no need to be snotty and condescending. But that’s not relevant to the point under discussion.
You brought up iWeb, iTunes, Safari, iDVD, iMovie as examples of a time when people switched to the Mac side to use great software. I think that’s a weak statement, but I countered your list with Logic Pro X, Final Cut Pro X, FaceTime, Messages, GarageBand, Pages, Numbers, Keynote, which I think is much more compelling than your list. So Apple has actually improved with regard to Mac Apps, which is what we were discussing.
Nope. I don’t want you to do anything. I said it was an option if you want cheap storage and weren’t willing to pay Apple’s upgrade prices. (Your statement about attitude and customer loyalty makes no sense.)
The mini, like MacBook Air and the 13” MBP, has a 128GB SSD for the base model. You’d be surprised how many entry level units Apple sells. In 2018, the ASP across all Macs sold was $1,383; that should give you an indication.
If you want a larger internal drive, Apple sells up to 2TB of capacity. Buy the capacity you want from Apple, or as I said, buy cheaper USB drives. The choice is yours. But don’t assume everyone needs more than 128GB just because you do.
If you just want to complain about the high price of Macs that’s fine, but it’s nothing new. People have been complaining about the price of Macs for 35+ years. They complained when Apple sold less than a billion dollars of Macs, when they sold $2-3 billion in the early 2000s, when they sold $10 billion in 2007, and $25 billion in 2015 🤷♂️
If you don’t need or want to run MacOS, you can probably save money buying a PC. It’s been that way for decades.
I disagree. But you were complaining about stale design. Apple doesn’t do change for the sake of change. A smaller bezel on the iMac isn’t going to drive sales, and there’s no reason to change it just because you think it’s stale.
It’s really no different with the mini. The unibody design began in 2011. One could call it stale, but don’t expect Apple to change it based on that criticism; they’re not that thin-skinned. The mini is fine as is, and change for the sake of change makes very little sense.
You seem to misunderstand the article. There are no actual sales numbers, only guesses by market research firms who have zero data regarding how many Macs Apple sells in their retail stores. Even if they have perfect numbers for all other channels (they don’t) that makes their guesses very unlikely to be correct.
Just look at the data: If Gartner is right about 5.26 million Macs being sold, it paints a different picture, doesn’t it? Then IDC would be reporting a 5.6% increase over their 4.98 million 4Q2018 figure. And all this hand-wringing would not be occurring.
I can understand why you’re concerned, but personally I’ll wait for Apple’s conference call to see what the actual Mac sales were. I’m not going to work myself up into a lather based on guesses from IDC and Gartner 🙂
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Anyone who claims failing and "worst ever' is being hyperbolic. just need to recognise that
However, StOCK price itself is an absolute TERRIBLE borometer for company goodwill and actual general perception.
It's purely speculative market based trading by people who have no direct ties to the company.
There are means to "manipulate" stock to increase performance that is not tied directly to the companies product quality itself. There are also ways of "pumping" up certain metrics in accounting principles to appease and promote stock value.
There are other means and measurements that are more valuable to the customers themselves than how a stock price does.
Revenues for example could be up. But volumes down. Is that a good thing for the products or bad? Higher revenues with higher profits is great for the investor, but is it good for the consumer? is it a trend of declining confidence in a brand or is it an intentional change in positioning on the price elasticity of those products?
For example, Why has Apple intentionally stopped reporting unit sales? How are revenues in the Mac business overall up, yet their shipped numbers are all down? is that a good thing? bad thing? Will further raising prices to increase profit margins and revenue decline volumes further? and si it better to sell less volume but higher margin products for the consumer? or the investor?
these aren't cut and dry answers. But it's just examples of why pointing at stock price itself as some borometer of company health is dangerous.
There have been numerous companies over the years who have pumped up their stock value for specific purposes, only to crumble shorly after.
USB-C is better than MAGSAFE in one VERY important way. I‘m not forced to buy my chargers from Apple!
Of course, some folks want to buy their EVERYTHING from Apple, and for those people (and people who are REALLY accident prone) being able to buy chargers from places other than Apple is not a good thing.
I've never felt the compulsion to type MAGSAFE in all caps, but I just did. It felt great.
I liked Magsafe too, but losing it to gain the benefits of USB-C charging is a tradeoff I'd gladly take.
Absolutely true on a shorter term basis, but absent any insider knowledge, a consistent pattern of growth over many years is a good reference point to help us interpret the aforementioned hyperbolic opinions.
The only thing that USB-C doesn't do is the easy break away. That's why a lot of users are a little mifed.
MagSave has likely saved a lot of computers from impacts from being pulled off surfaces.
Other than that? USB-C is definitely a massive improvement as a port over all that came before it. Though, I'm still not ready for 100% usb-C life myself
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I've never felt the compulsion to type MAGSAFE in all caps, but I just did. It felt great.
I liked Magsafe too, but losing it to gain the benefits of USB-C charging is a tradeoff I'd gladly take.
Absolutely true on a shorter term basis, but absent any insider knowledge, a consistent pattern of growth over many years is a good reference point to help us interpret the aforementioned hyperbolic opinions.
I still don't think the Market itself is a great indicator of either short or long term. It's too speculative.
But a real proper analysis does require more than 1 point of data. this article has a couple that can paint a picture but even that's not truly enough to tell the real health of the company.
The company itself though is fine. I bitch and moan about certain things because I"m a disgruntled Apple fan
I jus have an innate distrust for companies especially ones that from time to time put profit motivations before quality / consumer's wants.
I don't care if Apple has 1%, 20%, 100% profit margins. I just care that the product is affordable and meets my needs. I'm not an investor. I'm a consumer. it's my money to spend, and as such, I really don't feel like Apple is providing enough value for the money they are asking for myself.
given that I don't think they're providing that value to me anymore, and when they sit here boasting about stock performance and how much profits they make. I can't help but get miffed because they could easily be selling more stuff, if they also accepted a slightly slower growth. if their laptosp were say, $100 cheaper, they would still make insane amounts of profit. Just, insane -1. So why push the pricing higher if not just as a purposeful manipulation of stock performance.
ESPECIALLY given some of the problems with some of their hardware in the last 3-4 years. It has felt, as a consumer, that they are focusing on the wrong things. Profit instead of quality.
I think that's a long term losing strategy. A company isn't going to fail overnight operating that way, but it's a "death of a thousand cuts"... They lost me. but how many other people are they willing to alienate with this profiteering? this article kind of shows that a little here, a little there, does add up. The entire PC industry grew. Apple lost. That COULD be sign that there's further erosion of the Apple Goodwill that they spent years / decades growing with us.
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Speaking as the owner of a USB-C festooned machine, those cables actually tend to come out preeeeeettty easily. I’m not saying Apple made them looser so they’d pop out rather than take your laptop down, but you’ll find posts where people are complaining of the cords dropping out when they’re just sitting there.
OR, they’re focusing on iOS and iPadOS and services instead of macOS?
The Mac lost. Apple still makes other products, and those are doing as well or better. The Mac can disappear, just like the Apple II disappeared, without Apple, the corporation, disappearing.
They're not supposed to though. I had a 2016 MBP that went in for AppleCare repairs and as part of their work, they also replaced my loose TB3 ports. Everything snapped in firmly after that laptop came back to me. I have a 2018 now and everything snaps in pretty firm. Things are a little looser after a year of heavy use (as would be the case with any port), but the plugs don't drift out when you look at them wrong anymore.