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I disagree. But you were complaining about stale design. Apple doesn’t do change for the sake of change. A smaller bezel on the iMac isn’t going to drive sales, and there’s no reason to change it just because you think it’s stale.

It’s really no different with the mini. The unibody design began in 2011. One could call it stale, but don’t expect Apple to change it based on that criticism; they’re not that thin-skinned. The mini is fine as is, and change for the sake of change makes very little sense.

Only thing I can say thank god you do not work for Apple as a designer.
Making excuses for an old design saying it is fine it is just plainly ignorant and truly shows how little you know/care about innovation. If you innovate you show it with your products. You do not make excuses. Except the Mac Pro, that is actually unaffordable for the common user and took the 6 eyars to upgrade, you can see how little Apple care about its computer line up.
Even cars that have longer upgrade cycles, are upgrading more often than Apple upgrades its computers.

Obviously we have quite different views of what we understand for innovation.
You are talking about the Bezel as if that would be the only thing that can be improved in an iMAC. And that is NOT innovation.
here some other things (and some do not require major innovation) that competitors that use to copy Apple are not way ahead of Apple and have them in their models.
- Monitor can not be adjusted vertically
- Monitor can not be tilted (as Surface Studio) to use a giant tablet.
- You cannot use a pencil to actually Draw in the screen
- It does not have a Touchscreen.
- Upgrading SSD is quite difficult.
- Bezel looks ugly.

Mac Mini is NOT fine as it is. After 4 years they use the same enclosure that had known heating problems. Why? And it is not that they actually fix those heating issues now. They are still there.
In addition, you cannot upgrade the SSD. So you are forced to pay Apple obscene upgrade prices
How is that for a 60% more expensive computer?

It is a well known Apple marketing tactic not from now, but forever, to deliver entry-level computers with specs that are almost UNUSABLE, just to say that the entry price is lower. With 128GB SSD, you barely back up your iphone to it. TO deliver a computer with 128SSD and 8GB RAM in 2020 is quite lame, especially for the prices Apple charges.
At least in the past were able to upgrade ourselves. Now Apple is forcing everybody to buy disposable non-upgradable appliances, that you can only upgrade at Apple obscene ridiculous prices.

FYI, i know many known studios that use Apple for many years that recently either bought Hackintoshes or switch to PC. In the past, they would have never even though about doing that. And like that, there are many more....I wonder why. Could it be because it is Apple best line up?? NOT
 
I think it just comes down to the fact that people feel snubbed by Apple and that makes them emotional... particularly angry. And they want to make sure that others not only hear about their anger, but share it. If by chance, you don’t happen to be angered by the same things (same things in this instance meaning the actions of a computer company), then they’re angry at you, too.

This is a thread from awhile back where I came to some of the same conclusions (forewarning, if you’re a huge fan of the letter “g”, you may want to avoid following the link). I was going over it again today and I still think it’s relevant.
 
Obviously we have quite different views of what we understand for innovation.
You are talking about the Bezel as if that would be the only thing that can be improved in an iMAC. And that is NOT innovation.
here some other things (and some do not require major innovation) that competitors that use to copy Apple are not way ahead of Apple and have them in their models.
- Monitor can not be adjusted vertically
- Monitor can not be tilted (as Surface Studio) to use a giant tablet.
- You cannot use a pencil to actually Draw in the screen
- It does not have a Touchscreen.
- Upgrading SSD is quite difficult.
- Bezel looks ugly.

And the surface studio didn’t really sell all that well, IIRC.

This shows the difference in motivations between Microsoft and Apple. Microsoft doesn’t really earn from hardware sales, so they can afford to dabble in this area as a vanity project, releasing impractical devices like the surface studio which might have garnered rave reviews from tech blogs, but ultimately doesn’t seem to have connected with their users.

Conversely, Apple is about making practical hardware which actually sells. The surface studio is a very niche product which was deemed severely underpowered for its price. It wouldn’t be worth the cost of R&D, much less manufacturing capacity.

And if it’s a touchscreen you want to draw on, the iPad already exists at a far more accessible price point and in a far less intimidating form factor.

Ultimately, I would rather Apple focus their energies on meaningful innovation (such as AirPods) that can serve as wide a market as possible, rather than bend over backwards for a vocal minority whose needs seem increasingly out of sync with that of the general user base.
 
And the surface studio didn’t really sell all that well, IIRC.
I know an artist that went for the Surface Studio. When the iOS version of Clip Studio was released, he switched to that (using the iPad Pro) and it quickly went from being his travel system to his only drawing system. :)
 
Ok :) While I didn’t THINK it was related, it did just seem convenient LOL!

Ha! I did too. As annoying as it was, it was actually comforting in my first months of 2016 MBP ownership when I was really irritated about it no longer having Magsafe.

The main reason I missed Magsafe wasn't so much as a safety feature, but as a comfort feature. I like to work sitting cross legged on the ground sometimes. It's hard to do that with a spike of a USB-C plug jutting straight out an inch. Well, you can get right angle USB-C adapters and cables. I have a couple of adapters now so sitting cross leggeded is no longer a problem.
 
This shows the difference in motivations between Microsoft and Apple. Microsoft doesn’t really earn from hardware sales, so they can afford to dabble in this area as a vanity project, releasing impractical devices like the surface studio which might have garnered rave reviews from tech blogs, but ultimately doesn’t seem to have connected with their users.
FIrst it is NOT an impractical idea. That is why I said the external design idea was much better than the iMac, except that it runs Windows.
Still, the Surface Studio idea is in design years ahead of the iMac. The sad thing, it used to be the other way around, that Microsoft copied every idea Apple did.
Secondly, Apple also releases impractical devices. Every entry level computers that have unusable specs (128SSD with 8Gb RAM), heating problems and the iMac still ships with 5400rpm drives.

Conversely, Apple is about making practical hardware which actually sells. The surface studio is a very niche product which was deemed severely underpowered for its price. It wouldn’t be worth the cost of R&D, much less manufacturing capacity.
Practical hardware? Like the MBP 2016+ that you can barely type and NOT upgrade?
Talking about "Impractical devices", the MBP was a massive failure. SO much so that the very first week of release in 2016, they offer the entire line up of adaptors and dongles at 50% off. Pathetic.

Or that Apple turned the computers into disposable non-upgradable appliances? Oh... Please enlighten all of us of what is practical about not being able to upgrade the computer? it creates more trash and it only benefits Apples, since you are force to upgrade at obscene ridiculous SSD and RAM pricing. Way practical!

Or maybe as practical as the Mac Pro trashcan massive design failure?
Or maybe about the lame upgrade of the new Mac Mini that after 4 years they use the same enclosure that had lot of heating problems?

And if it’s a touchscreen you want to draw on, the iPad already exists at a far more accessible price point and in a far less intimidating form factor.
YOu can compare the iPad to the Surface tablet. But Comparing the iPad to the Surface Studio is complete nonsense and truly shows how little you understand about design and innovation. Once again, the Surface Studio "idea" and features are great ideas that may not have been greatly executed. But it shows the potential of what can be done with a desktop computer. Something that Apple forgot to do for over 10 years. And as I said, in the past it used to be the other way around where actually Apple showed the way of new trends in design.

Ultimately, I would rather Apple focus their energies on meaningful innovation (such as AirPods) that can serve as wide a market as possible, rather than bend over backwards for a vocal minority whose needs seem increasingly out of sync with that of the general user base.

Airpods are meaningful innovations.... 🤣 🤣 🤣
Meaningful would be the Watch, with the health features. That is meaninful!
Airpods are actually meaninless. Again your comments show complete ignorance since your can do NOTHING with the airpods except listen. Computers you can design, create, work, play etc. So they will be actually needed and use more than Airpods.
It is truly quite funny, how die-hard Apple fans bend over to excuse Apple of the lack of design and innovation on the computer line up.
 
I like to work sitting cross legged on the ground sometimes. It's hard to do that with a spike of a USB-C plug jutting straight out an inch.
Didn‘t you mean APPLE OBVIOUSLY DOESN’T WANT YOU SITTING CROSS LEGGED ON THE GROUND! THEY FORCE YOU TO HAVE TO BUY A RIGHT ANGLE ADAPTER! HOPEFULLY APPLE WILL SEE THIS POST AND REALIZE THAT MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IS WHY THEY’RE NOT SELLING ENOUGH MACS!!!

I mean, this IS an Apple related forum :)
 
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FIrst it is NOT an impractical idea. That is why I said the external design idea was much better than the iMac, except that it runs Windows.
Still, the Surface Studio idea is in design years ahead of the iMac.

Do you actually own a Surface Studio?

YOu can compare the iPad to the Surface tablet. But Comparing the iPad to the Surface Studio is complete nonsense and truly shows how little you understand about design and innovation. Once again, the Surface Studio "idea" and features are great ideas that may not have been greatly executed.

The Surface Studio is essentially a 28-inch iPad Pro. It’s too underpowered for a general-purpose desktop computer, not too mention very pricey (it makes the iMac look cheap). So you’ll buy it if you need a large drawing surface. Like an iPad Pro.
 
Yes, that’s the title of the article, and yes, it’s true. In addition, what the article doesn’t mention, but it’s part of the sales story, is that whereas in years past many users and organizations often switched to Macs, not only is that no longer happening, but many Mac users (who formerly would have been return customers) are themselves switching to Windows machines.

Yet it seems there’s considerable cognitive dissonance on display here, taking various forms:

Fake news. (perhaps the single most-used trope nowadays in many areas - climate change, politics, etc.)

New Macs are obviously better. Why? Because they’re newer than older ones.

The customer base may be shrinking, but the quality of the remaining customers is much better.

Down is the new up.

Newspeak if you may.

I don't see this site as being fanbois vs haters as is often believed. Those two types exist, but they're in the vast minority.

We've got complainers and explainers. The complainers are usually mislabeled as haters. The explainers are often misunderstood to be fanbois.

I know, I know, if you're still trying to rationalize why failure is success, then you might as well be a fanboi because you're unwilling to accept that your hero is a fraud.

Well, yeah, but if everything is so awful how can the chart below also be true?

View attachment 889132

If they're failing on all counts, shouldn't this chart be going the other way or at least look a lot flatter? All the things people are complaining about in this thread have been complained about ad nauseum for years and yet the reckoning keeps getting postponed to next year and then next year and then...

The complainers will eventually be right, but until then don't write off people who are simply trying to rationalize how one unnamed company could be the subject of so much scorn, yet continue to do quite well year after year.

They may not be doing right by you or for you, but clearly they're doing something right.

We are specifically talking about the Mac here which is a computer which is what Apple was really about it. Apple today is more of a phone company than a computer company.

Business wise and money making wise no one can deny the success of Apple. They can make even more money by selling rocket fuel, building skyscrapers, or fighter aircraft. The point is the Mac computer which was the core product and the iPad, iPod, and iPhone was just an extension to it became a side thing and neglected. I understand that money is somewhere else, but for a trillion dollar company which offers the only real alternative to Windows... its a bit of concern to the mac user.
 
Once again, I recommend watching the extremely on-point video “the grand theory of Apple” which I feel does an excellent job of explaining how Apple thinks and works.


I think it’s increasingly clear that there is a general misunderstanding as to how Apple works. I realise there is an increasing trend amongst the Apple critics, where they cover an industry, then they attempt to draw a link to Apple from time to time. I feel this tends to lead to error and inaccurate analysis, because you are comparing Apple too much to other companies, and you are not allowing Apple’s unique attributes to speak for themselves or recognise how Apple is able to set themselves apart from the competition.

Instead, I feel that the more effective way is to approach these topics from Apple’s perspective. Begin with Apple, and then look outwards at different industries.

Apple is more than just a computer company. It’s counterintuitive to view the current state of the Mac lineup as a proxy of the general state of innovation at the company. If anything, I would argue that it’s precisely because Apple is focusing so heavily on wearables that their Mac line appears to have languished.

Ultimately, Apple is a company focused on making technology more personal by removing barriers that stand in the way between the product and the end user. Examples of these include replacing Touch ID (which requires an action) with Face ID (which for certain tasks, requires no action beyond looking at your phone), and the Apple Watch placing a screen on your wrist, thereby reducing the need to keep taking your phone out of pocket when you want to do something.

Moving forward, it makes sense that Apple will continue to focus more on wearables (possibly at the continued expense of the Mac), because technology is now at a point where it is now feasible for Apple to do so. As such, I wouldn’t too optimistic about the state of the Mac moving forward, even if it seems like 2019 was the year Apple started to pay more attention to it.

If anything, I would support this even, because it means more resources being dedicated to the other aspects of the Apple ecosystem that I do use and benefit from.

Airpods are meaningful innovations....

Meaningful would be the Watch, with the health features. That is meaninful!

Airpods are actually meaninless. Again your comments show complete ignorance since your can do NOTHING with the airpods except listen. Computers you can design, create, work, play etc. So they will be actually needed and use more than Airpods.

It is truly quite funny, how die-hard Apple fans bend over to excuse Apple of the lack of design and innovation on the computer line up.

Just as the Apple Watch is a miniature computer you wear on your wrist, the airpods are miniature computers you wear in your years. The new noise-cancelling features in the AirPods Pro is but a portent of how Apple is able to use its control over hardware and software to marginalise entire industries who are simply not equipped to deal with threats like this. Just like how the Apple Watch has made Fitbit (a glorified pedometer) irrelevant, and how the iPhone made the blackberry look antiquated.

As mentioned in the video above, the main purpose of the Mac is to push Apple’s mobile devices forward. That’s why you don’t see Apple doing a product like the Surface Studio because they already have the iPad for that. Conversely, Microsoft doesn’t have a portfolio of mobile products to push forward. That’s why they are doing all these weird hybrid designs in an attempt to create a new product category that will hopefully stick, but so far, the market’s reception seems to have been rather lacklustre.

FIrst it is NOT an impractical idea. That is why I said the external design idea was much better than the iMac, except that it runs Windows.

Still, the Surface Studio idea is in design years ahead of the iMac. The sad thing, it used to be the other way around, that Microsoft copied every idea Apple did.

The surface studio is a niche product which will appeal to only a small market because for most users, a giant touchscreen that you can raise / lower is a white elephant that just isn’t worth the premium you have to fork out for it. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t have its uses, but Apple as a company isn’t interested in serving niche markets.

Secondly, Apple also releases impractical devices. Every entry level computers that have unusable specs (128SSD with 8Gb RAM), heating problems and the iMac still ships with 5400rpm drives.

I don’t think you understand what the word means.

Practical hardware? Like the MBP 2016+ that you can barely type and NOT upgrade?

I mean practical hardware like the Apple Watch and AirPods, which have sold tens of millions of units.

Or that Apple turned the computers into disposable non-upgradable appliances? Oh... Please enlighten all of us of what is practical about not being able to upgrade the computer? it creates more trash and it only benefits Apples, since you are force to upgrade at obscene ridiculous SSD and RAM pricing. Way practical!

Whether you can upgrade a computer or not has nothing to do with practicality, not least because not everyone is going to do so even if their computers allowed for it.

Or maybe as practical as the Mac Pro trashcan massive design failure?

Or maybe about the lame upgrade of the new Mac Mini that after 4 years they use the same enclosure that had lot of heating problems?

I notice that all your examples seem to fixate entirely on the Mac lineup, while ignoring every other product that Apple does sell. I will address this in greater detail below.

YOu can compare the iPad to the Surface tablet. But Comparing the iPad to the Surface Studio is complete nonsense and truly shows how little you understand about design and innovation. Once again, the Surface Studio "idea" and features are great ideas that may not have been greatly executed. But it shows the potential of what can be done with a desktop computer. Something that Apple forgot to do for over 10 years. And as I said, in the past it used to be the other way around where actually Apple showed the way of new trends in design.

And just because something can be done doesn’t mean that it should.

In many ways, the surface studio is reminiscent of the surface pro and the surface book. Like I have said before, it is this obsession with the Mac lineup in a vacuum which blinds Apple critics like yourself to what Apple has accomplished, or where it is headed.

The surface pro and surface book were attempts by Microsoft to merge the laptop and tablet form factors in one hybrid design, but in reality, they have always made more sense as laptops than tablets (not least because Microsoft has yet to come up with a compelling UI and ecosystem for tablet form factor devices).

Same problem with the Surface Studio. I am not sure who the target market is. At first glance, digital artists seem like an obvious choice, but for the price, you may as well just get an iMac and a Wacom tablet. It’s design makes it even more heat-constrained than the laptop (since the innards are effectively houses in a Mac-mini form factor. It’s pretty apparent when you look at the YouTube reviews and there is noticeable lag when drawing on the screen with the stylus on all but the maxed-out model.

I can’t imagine someone hunching over the studio with their elbow propped on the screen as a great experience. It makes sense as a giant tablet but not as a desktop. Compared to the iMac, which is a great all-purpose desktop at a very affordable price (again, partly due to compromises such as the 5400 HDD).

Which brings me back to the iPad. When it comes to enabling creatives, the iPad is more affordable and less intimidating. Anyone can pick up a tablet, download Procreate and start sketching away. No need for expensive, specialised hardware that tethers you to your desk.

At the end of the day, the Mac does not represent the future at Apple (though some might argue that it is what will enable this brave new world that Apple seeks to usher in). It is also currently the furthest from Apple's vision of what truly "personal" computing ought to look it, and so it receives an amount of attention commensurate with its place in this pecking order.[/QUOTE]
 
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USB-C is good but it isn't better than MAGSAFE for charging the MBP. Apple made a mistake by not including the MAGSAFE!

everyone loved magsafe that made life better, some stupid decision to take it out, but if it was for design purposes I always thought maybe they can incorporate the magsafe on the ucb-c cable tip itself . That makes everyone happy, although I am not sure if there is something that stops them from doing it this way.
 
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@chucker23n1 I had a 2016 MBP with the USB-C for work and it was connected and charging on my desk. A special needs child (I'm a teacher) tripped over the cord and the MBP went crashing on the floor. The aluminum shell got dented.
 
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@chucker23n1 I had a 2016 MBP with the USB-C for work and it was connected and charging on my desk. A special needs tripped over the cord and the MBP went crashing on the floor. The aluminum shell got dented.

Fair enough.

My current MBP still has MagSafe, but I’m not convinced it’s a huge loss not to have it. The tbMBPs have 1) power on both sides (woot!), and 2) a standardized port, meaning you get all kinds of AC adapters, and cheaper ones as well.

Pre-MagSafe, there were also AC adapters for my iBook that were much cheaper than Apple’s offering, and that is something that wasn’t available for the entire MagSafe era.
 
maybe they can incorporate the magsafe on the ucb-c cable tip itself . That makes everyone happy, although I am not sure if there is something that stops them from doing it this way.
That would have made it it a proprietary port, no longer USB-C, so loses the benefit of going with a standard.
 

there are 3rd party alternatives that will probably suit the need for a megnetic breakway.

still sucks that it's not built into the device anymore. but if the situation needs it, something like that above would probably be a reasonable work around
 
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Why does this bother you so? I mean, one should not tie their happiness to whether or not some faceless corporation is using a slow HD, should they? I mean, if I were in the market for one (most people aren’t, they want mobile devices), I wouldn’t buy one with a 5400rpm drive. But, other than just realizing it’s not for me, I don’t care if OTHER folks are fine with it.

It is not about happiness. Apple products were always more expensive, claiming that they had better products (more innovative and better quality). Well any product in 2020 that ships with a 5400 rpm drive is not innovative and it is NOT up to today's technology. It would be like buying a Ferrari with a 2 cylinder motor, which in my view is quite pathetic and shows how little Apple care about innovation in the computer line up.
 
I can’t imagine someone hunching over the studio with their elbow propped on the screen as a great experience. It makes sense as a giant tablet but not as a desktop. Compared to the iMac, which is a great all-purpose desktop at a very affordable price (again, partly due to compromises such as the 5400 HDD).
I can’t imagine someone hunching over the studio with their elbow propped on the screen as a great experience. It makes sense as a giant tablet but not as a desktop. Compared to the iMac, which is a great all-purpose desktop at a very affordable price (again, partly due to compromises such as the 5400 HDD).

Which brings me back to the iPad. When it comes to enabling creatives, the iPad is more affordable and less intimidating. Anyone can pick up a tablet, download Procreate and start sketching away. No need for expensive, specialised hardware that tethers you to your desk.
At the end of the day, the Mac does not represent the future at Apple (though some might argue that it is what will enable this brave new world that Apple seeks to usher in). It is also currently the furthest from Apple's vision of what truly "personal" computing ought to look it, and so it receives an amount of attention commensurate with its place in this pecking order

Your comments show that you have zero clue what you are talking about.
That you cannot imagine that the Mac does not represent the future of Apple, only means that you have a very poor imagination.

Moving forward, it makes sense that Apple will continue to focus more on wearables (possibly at the continued expense of the Mac), because technology is now at a point where it is now feasible for Apple to do so. As such, I wouldn’t too optimistic about the state of the Mac moving forward, even if it seems like 2019 was the year Apple started to pay more attention to it.

It is ok for Apple to produce wearables. The Watch is a great product. Still you cannot edit video, neither design, nor do an excel on it. What you fail to understand, is that Wearables are for consumers, not to actually produce work.

Just as the Apple Watch is a miniature computer you wear on your wrist, the airpods are miniature computers you wear in your years. The new noise-cancelling features in the AirPods Pro is but a portent of how Apple is able to use its control over hardware and software to marginalise entire industries who are simply not equipped to deal with threats like this. Just like how the Apple Watch has made Fitbit (a glorified pedometer) irrelevant, and how the iPhone made the blackberry look antiquated.
This specific comment that airpods are miniature computers, truly shows how little you understand.
It is like you telling me that because Ferrari design a new sound system they will actually earn more money. YOU CANNOT DO ANYTHING in an airpod just to listen...
ANd although the Watch is a great product that disrupted the market, you can still NOT do work on it.
So in the future you will still need somekind of either Laptop or desktop to create work.

Complete nonsense whatsoever.
 
ANd although the Watch is a great product that disrupted the market, you can still NOT do work on it.
So in the future you will still need somekind of either Laptop or desktop to create work.

Complete nonsense whatsoever.
And the Mac will likely still be around for this very purpose. It just won’t see the same amount of time and attention paid to it as wearables.

It’s the whole “post PC” argument all over again. Nobody ever said that PCs would be obsolete, but that moving forward, we will have so many other computing form factors to choose from, and the PC may well stop being the dominant form of computing.

Which is not wrong in a sense, since many people now sport smartphones. You are right in that one needs a computer to edit video or work on spreadsheets, but again, not everyone needs to perform those tasks. It’s like how 99% of people consume YouTube videos created by the 1%. This 100% is going to need smartphones, and this 100% represents a huge market for wearables, but only a minority of them truly need a PC for the very reasons you just stated.

Thus, Apple focusing on the Mac is not going to grow its user base in any meaningful way. I am not wishing that Apple drops the Mac altogether, but you all have got to realise that the Mac simply does not represent the future at Apple as far as growth and potential is concerned.
 
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It would be like buying a Ferrari with a 2 cylinder motor, which in my view is quite pathetic and shows how little Apple care about innovation in the computer line up.
Yeah, but doesn’t that matter MOST to the person buying the Ferrari? If people like it and want it and buy it, does that hurt your feelings?
That you cannot imagine that the Mac does not represent the future of Apple, only means that you have a very poor imagination.
No, it means they have a solid grasp on how companies sunset older products as they mature newer products. People forget that Apple has killed their number one product before, the Apple II. They will eventually EOL the Mac. They will eventually EOL iOS/iPadOS. They will eventually EOL whatever comes after that with the NEXT big thing.
 
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