Mac Shipments Estimated to Be Down Over 20% While Demand Surges in Q1 2020

[Jimmy James]

The Lenovo spyware debacle happened before people cared. Or they never cared.

 

[Icaras]

Maybe if Apple actually updated its desktop computers on a regular basis instead of once every 10 years, more people might be interested in buying. But since over 80% of Apple's revenue comes from mobile products, why would they care? Apple has been killing the desktop Mac for years.

Agreed with this all the way, and that’s why I personally have stuck with my 2012 iMac all this time. I’m not giving them a dime until they update it properly with a redesign and stock SSD.

 

[chucker23n1]

Consumers, yes, but at work, the vast majority is still desktops.

Source?

 

[PostApple2016BrainWash]

Agreed with this all the way, and that’s why I personally have stuck with my 2012 iMac all this time. I’m not giving them a dime until they update it properly with a redesign and stock SSD.

Apple is a company that can redesign the iMac every few years but Tim Cook show very limited interest in improving the product and that's why the customers are stuck for upgrading to a new design with thinner bezel and chinless model.

 

[MacBH928]

Macs were computers for the average consumer, Tim Apple turned it into the Gucci of computers, its more of a fashion statement. Apple computers were supposed to be the student's choice and the family choice, not the celebrity's jewellery.

There was a time when the Apple computer surpassed its PC competitors, now people read they can get an upgradable PC that is more powerful than the Mac for half the price.

I am surprised how does Apple neglect the Mac when they have as low as 15% of the market share, there is so much more room to grow.

 

[Pootie Tang]

There are currently three publicly traded companies on this planet with a trillion dollars in market capitalization: Microsoft, Apple and Amazon. Who ranks first, second or third varies from day to day or week to week. Apple's market capitalization is up by 34.3% year to year and that's why Tim Cook earned his largest performance ever bonus in 2019.
"August 29, 2019: Apple CEO Tim Cook has acquired more than $114.4 million worth of vested Apple stock since Saturday after the Cupertino tech giant met performance expectations, according to a document filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission."
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose...-takes-home-114-4-million-for-good-stock.html

 

[Expos of 1969]

There are currently three publicly traded companies on this planet with a trillion dollars in market capitalization: Microsoft, Apple and Amazon. Who ranks first, second or third varies from day to day or week to week. Apple's market capitalization is up by 34.3% year to year and that's why Tim Cook earned his largest performance ever bonus in 2019.
"August 29, 2019: Apple CEO Tim Cook has acquired more than $114.4 million worth of vested Apple stock since Saturday after the Cupertino tech giant met performance expectations, according to a document filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission."
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose...-takes-home-114-4-million-for-good-stock.html

And this is interesting or relevant?

 

[citysnaps]

Most regular people, not posters here, could care less if they buy it online or in store.

yes a poster on a apple forum. Hmmmm

Please let Apple know so they can stop squandering all that money creating and operating Apple Stores!

 

[CWallace]

Funny. Intel releases dozens of new chip models annually. Every other PC vendor (all of them use Intel CPUs) updates their computers regularly. Yet Apple is still shipping Mac Minis with Intel's 8 generation CPUs and probably won't update until Intel releases 15th generation. Let's blame Intel.

The Mac mini uses a B-Series Intel CPU and Intel never released a 9th generation B-Series CPU.

So yes, let's blame Intel - at least for the lack of CPU upgrades.

I do not understand why they don't have some Mac focused exec who's sole job it is to push the Mac forward. By every metric it's a very profitable segment that many people desire to own. It's not like Apple is struggling for capital.

It is because Steve Jobs adopted a Functional Management organizational structure when he returned and not a Divisional one. Apple could move to a Divisional structure where every hardware product and OS has their own SVP who treats it as their own personal fiefdom and competes with every other SVP for resources and recognition, but chances are that would be even worse for the Mac since the SVP of iPhone and the SVP of iOS would be the two most powerful since they bring in the vast majority of revenue.

Apple need to stop with the 40% margins on everything, as people look at what they spend money on due to the current situation, companies like Apple will be hit hard. Who is going to spend over 1k on a phone or computer when the economies are crashing around them. All the other vendors have lower cost options which are high quality and high performance these days.

Those 40% margins are why Apple has so much cash on hand to whether this crisis.

Agreed. Apple does not need to price as a niche product because the cost can significantly be lowered in order to target a wide range of customers.

They don't want to. They were always an "aspirational" brand under Steve (Macs were always more expensive than other PCs, iPods were always more expensive than other MP3 players, iPhone has usually been more expensive than Android flagship smartphones) and that has continued under Tim.

I wonder if this downturn is one reason that Apple has pushed a large number of 2019 Mac Pro units into the refurbished channel? That would allow them to discount now without actually running a sale or lowering the price.

Possibly, though you can usually find deeper discounts than 15% via third-party authorized resellers. It's been said the bulk of refurbs are returns during Apple's 15-day return window. I could see people buying one either to test it in their workflows or to do YouTube "influencer" videos on them and then return them within the window.

Way back when in the 6s days, the top model flagship iPhone (6s Plus) was $750...

The iPhone 11 is in every way a "flagship phone" and it's even cheaper than the 6s was at launch. Yes, the "Pro" model has a better screen (in some areas - in others the LCD offers advantages) and an extra lens to support very specific picture modes, but in terms of performance and battery life, the "non-Pro" model is just as good (and even better when it comes to battery life).

 

[ericinboston]

I'm late to this thread...I bought a $1500 2020 Macbook Air a few weeks ago, found out it was throttling the i7 CPU by more than 50%, and quickly returned it. Granted the Air might not be for people who will push the CPU, but you CANNOT offer/sell/pitch/advertise an i7 chip and literally cripple it. That's beyond misleading advertising.

A similar Macbook Pro 13" would be over $2300 (including the EDU discount) which is beyond expensive for my needs as well as far outside my affordability.

So I can't buy a Mac laptop.

I found a sweet Lenovo X1 Extreme Gen2 for $1232 plus tax and bought it. Same CPU, RAM, drive as the Macbook Pro. It's fantastic. And it's 1/2 the price. It doesn't throttle.

I don't want to get into the battle here about Windows vs. Mac because in my situation, I could have used either platform for my software. But I really wanted a Mac laptop and ultimately could not.

 

[827538]

Whilst Intel haven't done that much in the last 5 years or so, Apple have played along with them putting premiums on top of Intel premiums at the checkout.

Intel didn't force them to use Hard drives in their iMacs. They have SSDs in the Mini and Macbook Air...but not the iMac?

Intel didn't force them to be stingly with 8 gigs of ram and charge a 200£ mark up for another stick of 8 gigs.

Intel didn't stop them from reducing the border on their iMac or improving the cooling in the iMac. They've had two years since the intro of the iMac Pro to bring that benefit to the mainstream iMac. The mini gets a better cooling system...but the iMac still has the thermal fryer for your components.

Intel didn't stop Apple from offering a proper mid tower or jack prices up to 6k for a tower.

Apple's just had two 'non' updates to the Mini (why no 8 core? Why no superior graphics?) and the iPad?

Apple milk their tech these days. The updates are achingly drawn out. Not as fun as they used to be. They're coasting.

Azrael.

Since when did I ever say Intel did those things? I was referring to Intel's disastrous last couple of years with failed processes and a chip design that's been left in the dust and the resulting lack of performance improvements or reasons to refresh.

I totally agree but your point is just the sort of things I was saying.

 

[Roadstar]

I don't understand the logic behind wanting more frequent hardware updates. Sure, we might see a 5-20% performance boost on some tasks, but we are talking about a device with an effective lifespan of 6 to 10 years. This is double what other Window's devices get, and far longer than consumption-first platforms. I get that it sucks if you need a new mac and your option is to buy a device that was released 2 years ago, but even in that situation you are going to get more productivity out of it than a newly released Windows machine.

Well at least from the software support perspective I find that claim a little suspicious. For after all, my previous mid 2011 Mac mini stopped getting major macOS updates two versions ago and it's stuck at High Sierra. Sure, Apple still releases some security updates for High Sierra, but there are examples of cases where only the latest macOS version gets properly patched if Apple deems the fix to "take too much work" to backport to older systems. This happened with the rootpipe vulnerability when only the then-current Yosemite got patched. At that point I made a mental note of any Mac system I control needing to be replaced when it's out of mainstream support. So that Mini got an effective lifespan of just a little bit over 7 years while many similarly aged or even older Windows systems still got the latest Windows 10.

This shortened software support combined with more and more components being soldered down to make the devices pretty much unrepairable let alone expandable has lead to many Macs becoming rather disposable machines especially in a connected environment where you can't really run software that has known unpatched vulnerabilities.

 

[Pootie Tang]

And this is interesting or relevant?

Obviously not to you! To me it explains why Apple doesn't change direction. From the perspective of senior management and the Board of Directors, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Mainsail]

I think the new base 2020 MBA is going to be a real shot in the arm for Apple laptop sales. It's priced right and more than capable enough for most everyday consumers. At $899 before big box store discounts, it will be a wildly popular with college students this fall.

 

[mlody]

Agreed with this all the way, and that’s why I personally have stuck with my 2012 iMac all this time. I’m not giving them a dime until they update it properly with a redesign and stock SSD.

I also have 2012 imac 27” and i am in the same boat. I replaced stock hdd twice in my previous iMac’s with SSD but i dont want to tinker anymore. I will be happy with a base imac with ssd.

 

[dugbug]

I recently bought a new desktop and I was genuinely toying with the idea of buying an iMac.

In the end I went for a PC I built myself for the following reasons:

1. Price. Apple's prices aren't even remotely competitive, especially now that AMD are offering some serious competition. Apple's BTO prices are downright insulting. £600 for 32GB of 2666MHz DDR4 is just utterly ridiculous when a 3200MHz set is £138 on Amazon.
2. AMD. Really all I need to say - Intel hasn't offered any serious upgrades to their processors in a few years now, meanwhile AMD are offering 12 and 16 core CPUs for not much more than Intel's 8 core offering, with lower power consumption and heat output. Intel simply aren't competitive right now.
3. Upgradeability. Being able to just replace the graphics card, processor, RAM, whatever, as needed is a huge deal to me. Being able to replace the display without replacing the entire system is also pretty awesome. Need more storage? Just add more internal drives. Doing this with a Mac requires a ton of external enclosures, gets messy quite quickly.
4. Support. Apple's support, in my experience, simply isn't very good. It's not terrible, but I wouldn't say it's good either. Being without my MacBook for a week because the keyboard doesn't work sucks. I can buy a new one and return it when the original is fixed, but that's really my only option. Meanwhile on my PC, if a component goes bad I just replace the component myself. Apple won't sell me components for Macs for any amount of money.
5. Windows 10. I've never been a huge fan of Windows. Actually I've been a very vocal critic, but the truth is Windows genuinely is a lot better than it used to be. The Linux subsytem is genuinely awesome, and dev work that I used to think would be impossible on a PC now isn't an issue at all.
6. macOS Catalina. I have to be honest, as much as I hate to be one of those who complains about Catalina, because it's rarely as bad as its made out to be, the OS has been problematic for me. Bizarre bugs and issues that simply shouldn't happen, along with other annoyances. macOS still has focus stealing, which annoys the hell out of me. A hell of a lot of my old software is now unsupported, with no way to get it to run.
7. Games / Software Support. I'm not much of a gamer, but it's genuinely awesome to have access to such a huge catalogue of AAA games. Software as well is a big one here - Apple routinely breaks support for legacy software, yet on Windows I can find an app from 10 years ago and not have to worry about whether it'll work with my system, it almost certainly will.

The worst part out of all of this, is that I'm now genuinely considering getting a PC laptop as well, because honestly, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I genuinely am starting to like Windows.

Price? Dude you use it every day, get one with the best trackpad and build quality you can.

further if Catalina is a problem the answer is NOT windows rotfl.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Funny. Intel releases dozens of new chip models annually. Every other PC vendor (all of them use Intel CPUs) updates their computers regularly. Yet Apple is still shipping Mac Minis with Intel's 8 generation CPUs and probably won't update until Intel releases 15th generation. Let's blame Intel.

You have no idea what tf you're talking about. Mac customers want regular redesigns of the Mac. Redesigns need regular Intel refreshes. Intel delays pushed back the Mac roadmap, with the exception of the Mac Pro but that's hardly the cause of the 20% drop as it's not a high volume product.

 

[V_Man]

Please let Apple know so they can stop squandering all that money creating and operating Apple Stores!

Do you ever get tired of the sarcastic comments? the macrumors Apple defense force CEO.

Most people would prefer to buy in person but have no issues ordering online from the same company. But then you can’t Try to insult them

 

[sirozha]

I'm late to this thread...I bought a $1500 2020 Macbook Air a few weeks ago, found out it was throttling the i7 CPU by more than 50%, and quickly returned it. Granted the Air might not be for people who will push the CPU, but you CANNOT offer/sell/pitch/advertise an i7 chip and literally cripple it. That's beyond misleading advertising.

A similar Macbook Pro 13" would be over $2300 (including the EDU discount) which is beyond expensive for my needs as well as far outside my affordability.

So I can't buy a Mac laptop.

I found a sweet Lenovo X1 Extreme Gen2 for $1232 plus tax and bought it. Same CPU, RAM, drive as the Macbook Pro. It's fantastic. And it's 1/2 the price. It doesn't throttle.

I don't want to get into the battle here about Windows vs. Mac because in my situation, I could have used either platform for my software. But I really wanted a Mac laptop and ultimately could not.

I bought a 2020 i7 MacBook Air with 16 GB RAM and 1 TB SSD, but while I was waiting for it, I read the same reviews you did. It’s been sitting in the box unopened, and I’m planning to return it in a couple days. I will continue using my 2018 MacBook Air, which has lost over 50% of its value in a year and a half.

Maybe if Apple releases a 14” MacBook Pro later this year, I will bite again. The 16” MacBook Pro is way too big for me. I would never want to own that machine. I’ve been closely watching the Dell XPS laptops lately. I may just go with a Dell XPS after over 12 years exclusively using Macs.

 

[citysnaps]

Do you ever get tired of the sarcastic comments? the macrumors Apple defense force CEO.

Most people would prefer to buy in person but have no issues ordering online from the same company. But then you can’t Try to insult them

Hardly sarcastic or defending Apple. Just wondering how you can speak for "most people." And if your assertion is indeed true, why Apple has spent billions of dollars developing and operating stores if "most people" have no issue purchasing online. Sounds like a waste to me, if true.

I'm sorry if you're not able to understand how the current virus situation would adversely affect Apple sales.

 

[V_Man]

Price? Dude you use it every day, get one with the best trackpad and build quality you can.

further if Catalina is a problem the answer is NOT windows rotfl.

Sure if a trackpad is worth over a $1000. It’s not.

 

[Tekguy0]

The iPhone 11 is in every way a "flagship phone" and it's even cheaper than the 6s was at launch. Yes, the "Pro" model has a better screen (in some areas - in others the LCD offers advantages) and an extra lens to support very specific picture modes, but in terms of performance and battery life, the "non-Pro" model is just as good (and even better when it comes to battery life).

The 11 could be considered a "flagship." But I would argue the XR, which I believe had the same starting price as the 11, could not. It had a considerably inferior camera compared to the XS series. Given as all the "flagship" phones have had multiple lenses, and looked considerably more upscale in terms of the finishes. Not to say the XR was bad by any means, it just wasn't as upscale as the XS models.

 

[V_Man]

Hardly sarcastic or defending Apple. Just wondering how you can speak for "most people." And if your assertion is indeed true, why Apple has spent billions of dollars developing and operating stores if "most people" have no issue purchasing online. Sounds like a waste to me, if true.

I'm sorry if you're not able to understand how the current virus situation would adversely affect Apple sales.

And I’m sorry you can’t see through the your BS.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

And since when do young people know what they want, let alone what's good for them?

Well, when you were younger, did you know what you want? Did you buy what you wanted?

Plenty of us require a powerful, Unix-based desktop operating system - and we know what the hell we're talking about.

No one is taking away anyone’s power Unix-based desktop operating system! It’s on their desk and it’ll stay RIGHT there.

There were people that thought that, with the strength of the Apple ][ that the future of Apple would be some Apple ][ based design. There are people now that think the future of Apple now MUST be some macOS design. We now know how correct the first group was. We’ll soon know how correct the second group will be.

 

[PickUrPoison]

It’s not as if a Mac couldn’t support Apple Pencil input. Chromebooks and Windows computers have supported stylus input for ages now.

Apple Pencil isn’t a stylus.