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I serviced Apple hardware since the G4 days, with a few exceptions of early Intel Macbook, I would say their hardware are designed intentionally to be be "service hostile". Those like me who are technically capable and with the right tools, modern Mac hardware takes 2x as long to service due to the reduction, modularity of parts and calibration post-repair. I am pretty sure most tech curse at Apple at some point for the ever challenging and complicated repair process.

There seems to be the mentality that since other tasks such as car repair or open heart surgery are complicated and time consuming, it’s ok for personal computers to be the same way. Extend this logic and you end up with: as long as the computer repair is not more difficult and time consuming than the most complex repair on a living or nonliving thing that you can think of, it’s ok. As the expression goes, “if it’s not illegal, it’s ok”.

Elon Musk is known to walk the factory floors and speak with production crews about issues encountered. In his YouTube videos, Sandy Munro is a big advocate of designing cars so the people on the production lines can assemble things quickly and safely. While assembly is different from repair, I wonder if Apple‘s hardware design teams take the time to speak with repair center staff and listen to feedback. Or do the design teams wall themselves off while looking down on everyone else.

It would be interesting to know the motivations for why people work at Apple repair centers. Are they just there for the prestige of working at Apple? For the employee discount? Because it was the best job they could get? Are they trying to work their way up so they never have to deal with repairs again? Or are they “true believers“ who will happily spend the rest of their lives in an Apple repair center taking whatever Apple throws at them without saying a word? Will Apple defenders start demanding that their Macs be serviced only by “true believers”?

This is part of why I think Apple might possibly reverse course (to some extent at least) in the coming years. Certainly not yet, if anything they are still doubling down. But I wouldn't be surprised if, in five years, Apple is coming out with easily repairable computers again. And it probably won't be for regularity reasons. It will probably be a response to consumer demand, because reliability and longevity was one of Macs biggest selling points over the last decade.

Either that or Apple repair center employees unionizing and pushing back hard.
 
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They both kind of go together, or should anyway.
Apple has historically done the opposite. They only play in the market segment where money is actually made instead of chasing market share at no profit. Mobile operating systems, App Store, their computers.

Apple has a minority market share in most areas they compete in, but in those markets they take the lion’s share of profit *on their own* against the sum of literally all competitors.
 
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Getting you data back for one, but Apple covering it doesn't mean it's going to be affordable on the hardware side.
Wouldn’t you just restore your data from backup once your machine was fixed?

I must admit I am struggling to understand the notion that someone can pay £2000+ for a computer but then be unwilling to pay for the repair of said machine. We don’t even know how much it would cost to repair the machine.
 
Wouldn’t you just restore your data from backup once your machine was fixed?
I would as a first step. If I had an old drive, I would mount it on another machine and copy anything newer than the last backup.

I must admit I am struggling to understand the notion that someone can pay £2000+ for a computer but then be unwilling to pay for the repair of said machine. We don’t even know how much it would cost to repair the machine.
Your last sentence says it all. We don't know if it will be too expensive or not, but given the way Apple does things, do you really think it will be cheap?
 
I would as a first step. If I had an old drive, I would mount it on another machine and copy anything newer than the last backup.


Your last sentence says it all. We don't know if it will be too expensive or not, but given the way Apple does things, do you really think it will be cheap?
We don't know how much it'll cost but some people are saying they would just throw the device away if it broke.
 
Apple has historically done the opposite. They only play in the market segment where money is actually made instead of chasing market share at no profit. Mobile operating systems, App Store, their computers.

Apple has a minority market share in most areas they compete in, but in those markets they take the lion’s share of profit *on their own* against the sum of literally all competitors.
And you think general business computers aren't profitable? There's a lot of companies that beg to differ. Competition is tougher, but not unprofitable!
 
I don't see it that way as long as no market is an intentional loss, it's always for profit.
That assumes unlimited resources available to the company making the products. Apple's costs would increase if it were to make more products to appeal to more people. Additionally, spreading yourself too thin can result in a loss of quality in the products you do make, which could make them less successful.
 
We don't know how much it'll cost but some people are saying they would just throw the device away if it broke.
I would give that a *very* high probability, especially when you're talking past the first year, and near 100% after 3. Nothing is cheap when it comes to Apple, they WANT you to have to buy new.
 
That assumes unlimited resources available to the company making the products. Apple's costs would increase if it were to make more products to appeal to more people. Additionally, spreading yourself too thin can result in a loss of quality in the products you do make, which could make them less successful.
<lol>, that's not the way most businesses think.
 
I would give that a *very* high probability, especially when you're talking past the first year, and near 100% after 3. Nothing is cheap when it comes to Apple, they WANT you to have to buy new.
Why would you say that? Have you got any numbers that you are basing your assumption on?
 
But it’s true. Apple can’t make all products for all people, and you may have simply fallen out of the target market either because your needs have changed, or Apple is no longer interested in serving customers such as you.
I love macOS…..this is so painful…????????
 
I think it is. Companies specialise in certain product areas all the time. In fact I'd say that is the norm for most businesses.
Specialize in certain products, yes, no doubt of that, but they're always thinking of ways to expand their market in new ways to make more profit. If that means thinning out too much, hire more people, build more infrastructure.
 
No, just experience.
Right so we'll have to say we don't actually know what the repair costs will be until we find out the actual numbers.

My point being that even then, some people are saying they'd just throw the machine away!
 
Specialize in certain products, yes, no doubt of that, but they're always thinking of ways to expand their market in new ways to make more profit. If that means thinning out too much, hire more people, build more infrastructure.
Which is exactly what Apple have done by expanding into services.
 
Apple has historically done the opposite. They only play in the market segment where money is actually made instead of chasing market share at no profit. Mobile operating systems, App Store, their computers.

Apple has a minority market share in most areas they compete in, but in those markets they take the lion’s share of profit *on their own* against the sum of literally all competitors.

Well said.

Market share is very important, but you don't have to have the majority share to succeed. Back in the powerPC days, software support was much worse than it is today, and it was a bit problematic in the consumer market at the time. When they made the switch to Intel, developers started paying more attention to the Mac. This massively expanded software support and helped to make the Mac mainstream, and Apple didn't have to achieve majority market share in order to make it happen.

Part of me has always been curious to see if Apple would ever release a "MacBook SE" based on the old pre-2018 MacBook Air shells. If they released a stripped down MacBook Air for $749 with an A15X or perhaps a downclocked M1, it would sell off the shelves by the millions in college environments and so forth. Apple could take significant market share from the PC world by doing this, and a lot of people would be thrilled to see something like this.

Apple isn't likely to ever really do this, because they make the majority of their profits off of hardware sales instead of advertisements. Google can afford to practically give their hardware away (they will make it back quickly in services and ad revenue). Apple doesn't operate like this, and has never really played much in the sub $1000 market.
 
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Which is exactly what Apple have done by expanding into services.
Yep, but there's even more profit to be had. (he says in his best Ferengi imitation :)

Apple can stay profitable for a long time the way they are now, I have no doubt of that, but I do wonder if they might be heading for more legal troubles.
 
Right so we'll have to say we don't actually know what the repair costs will be until we find out the actual numbers.

My point being that even then, some people are saying they'd just throw the machine away!
I'd probably be one of them if it were past applecare. It's not like I haven't done the same thing for other devices. You have to balance the cost of repair against its current value and it's usefulness, compared to a newer machine.

(and yes, I would have applecare on it for at least 3 years!)
 
I'd probably be one of them if it were past applecare. It's not like I haven't done the same thing for other devices. You have to balance the cost of repair against its current value and it's usefulness, compared to a newer machine.

(and yes, I would have applecare on it for at least 3 years!)
Right so the issue isn’t that you can’t get it repaired, it’s that You want to repair it for a certain price. We are talking about something different now then.
 
And you think general business computers aren't profitable? There's a lot of companies that beg to differ. Competition is tougher, but not unprofitable!
No, there is a difference between low volume high margin approaches, and high volume low profit approaches.

I’m talking per unit. Apple makes way more off a MacBook than Lenovo does off their machines, but Lenovo moves way more in aggregate.

It’s the same thing car companies do, high volume and lower profit per, or move fewer luxury vehicles at a higher profit margin.

Both can be successful business strategies, but they are different approaches.

Hope that clarifies what I meant, they’re both equally valid strategies, just different.
 
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