I like the comment where this guy would chop his hands of before using a MacPro
lol ... chop chop
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Mac vs PC, regarding laptops....
- Thread starter spmiz12
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I like the comment where this guy would chop his hands of before using a MacPro
lol ... chop chop
Yes, it has. No OS is perfect or immune to threats from hackers and malware. The real question, however, is how often and how likely is it for the average current Mac user to be affected by malware, compared to the average current Windows user, if no anti-virus software is used?
My Apple experience has been completely different. I bought my current MBP over 2 1/2 years ago and bought MS Office at the time of purchase. Since that time, I haven't had to spend a single dime for software to accomplish everything I need to do. I've found that there are thousands of well-written free apps available that are perfectly compatible with my Mac. I've had zero problems with my Mac since purchase, something I could never say with any computer I've owned before. It simply does everything I expect it to do. Are there things I think could be improved upon? Of course! But the Mac user experience has come significantly closer to satisfying all my expectations than any Windows system ever did.
Unlike my Windows experience, I haven't had to constantly maintain my Mac, or reboot it to free RAM, or go into great detail to clean components of uninstalled apps, etc. I spend all my time actually using my Mac, which I wasn't able to do with Windows. Like any other company, I don't need, want, like or buy everything Apple makes, but what I have had nothing but great experiences with what I have bought from them.
No person buying a Mac Pro is solely using it for gaming. believe me, the graphic card for work station machine is very different from gaming graphic cards.
you're showing nothing buy ignorance.
+1. Apple's software is on the cheap end in comparison to windows. OS for OS apple sell leopard for 129 and it's pretty much one size for all. Windows 7 sells the OS for god-knows-how-much and, unless you get the ultimate, you don't get a full version of the OS. Office software is the same deal.
Windows experience is also full of frustration. the price is cheaper because the vendors allow big software companies to pre-load the laptops/desktop with crap-ware and a day of cleaning those **** out is exactly what you call "windows experience"
Mac OS is "preloaded" with software too. but they are the ones that people actually enjoy using. iLife, photo booth, auto-script, etc. And as a Mac OS user, you never worry about security issue unless you look to your neighbors who hit the jackpot even once in a while and are telling you how their computers are ruined by virus and malware and what not. With my years of using mac, never have i once reinstall the OS to restore to get things fixed. Now call that Mac experience.
My friend who recently got a 13" MBP was telling me just last night - he got Windows and Office loaded on it (for when he has to do work related stuff), and that it runs Windows better than a PC.
He doesn't know the difference between a C2D or Core iX and couldn't care less, but the Mac works better. He was also telling me when he first got it how easy it is to transfer stuff over on a Mac (from his old '06/07 MBP, which was still running fine but a bit lacking in RAM), guessing he did the migration.
So there you have it - people complain about the C2D, etc, but to someone who can't be bothered to know the difference - the Mac does Windows better than a PC. 
He doesn't know the difference between a C2D or Core iX and couldn't care less, but the Mac works better. He was also telling me when he first got it how easy it is to transfer stuff over on a Mac (from his old '06/07 MBP, which was still running fine but a bit lacking in RAM), guessing he did the migration.
So there you have it - people complain about the C2D, etc, but to someone who can't be bothered to know the difference - the Mac does Windows better than a PC.
THIS!!!! Why the heck is Apple charging such an incredibly steep price for what should have been included in the price of your 13" machine?
The mobile i5 chips have been out nearly a year and are commonly found in mobile pcs for much less than $1,000. I prefer Mac to pc, but I admit it is a luxury, and I pay the tax. However, I'd be much happier if the tax was $100-200 and not the insane amounts they now charge.
What you are conflating in your post as Mac vc pc is really two issues in my opinion:
1) Mac vs pc if cost is equal
2) The advantage of Mac vs the hefty increase in cost.
I'm not an Apple stock holder and I cringe when I hear they have yet another quarter of 25-33% profit. What this would mean to any other computer maker is simply stiff competition is on the horizon. Apple doesn't have any competition on the horizon that contains people wealthy enough to afford their products so Apple never lowers their prices.
I'm crossing my fingers that the next 13" update will actually contain a sandy bridge cpu and not another insulting speed bump to a core 2.
My friend who recently got a 13" MBP was telling me just last night - he got Windows and Office loaded on it (for when he has to do work related stuff), and that it runs Windows better than a PC.
He doesn't know the difference between a C2D or Core iX and couldn't care less, but the Mac works better. He was also telling me when he first got it how easy it is to transfer stuff over on a Mac (from his old '06/07 MBP, which was still running fine but a bit lacking in RAM), guessing he did the migration.
So there you have it - people complain about the C2D, etc, but to someone who can't be bothered to know the difference - the Mac does Windows better than a PC.
So one anecdotal report about someone who doesnt know anything about computers means Macs run Windows better than cheaper PCs? Were they both clean installs? Were they both using equal components? Were they both using up to date drivers?
I really dont know how some people have no reasoning abilities.
Because Apple gets billions of dollars in free publicity. Every TV show and movie made in America has Apple laptops and only Apple laptops in use by the actors on screen.
All the big corporate media pump and pump Apple products more than all the rest combined.
Result? Apple's share of the American desktop market dwarfs their share internationally. Outside of North America Apple is not a niche player, they are like Rolls Royce or some other kind of boutique expensive automobile. Less than two percent of the market.
If another computer manufacturer wants to innovate and make their product a success they have to allocate more money for advertising than it cost to develop the product. Hardly anyone knows about the Dell Adamo that cost $999. It had almost no reviews.
If Steve Jobs farts he gets a five star review from every media outlet telling us all how magical his farts smell, and this is followed up with endless trailing stories to keep the product front and center. Seriously, Jobs could sell his farts if he wanted to, and judging by his last press conference on quarterly earnings he may even try it.
If HP or Dell had released the iPad it would have already been forgotten because the media would have ignored it. They're in bed with Apple. Apple makes you pay for everything. Their computers do not even come with a word processor. It's exactly the opposite of the propaganda, which you can read just a few posts above this one.
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Wow, do you honestly believe that Apple gets all that for FREE? Apple employs the best advertisers in the world to ensure they get the best publicity. Nothing is free.
The problem with most PC laptops is that they are poorly designed. PC manufacturers tend to just cram the latest components in but very few actually pay any attention to functionality and ease of use.
I keep seeing the same things we've had for many years: those crappy recessed trackpads, trackpads with that awful scroll strip (it's even more awful than the on-screen scroll bar - the mouse wheel is a great invention), all sorts of media keys, volume controls etc that are nowhere near as easy to use or logically laid out as the ones found in the Apple keyboard function keys. HP even has a very poorly performing touch strip for volume control on some of their laptops.
Then come the inputs and outputs. I don't know about you, but plugging headphones into the front of the laptop is not convenient. I also don't care about having a bulky VGA port adding thickness to the laptop when simple adapters (that are easy to carry with you always) could do VGA, HDMI and DVI easily. Speaking of adapters, the power adapters most PC laptops have are bulky and annoying. Apple's adapter where you can coil the cable around it nicely is very handy. Likewise the interchangable plugs are a good thing.
It's all the little things that make using a Macbook Pro easier than an equivalent PC laptop. I truly wish PC manufacturers would hire some designers with an eye for usability.
I keep seeing the same things we've had for many years: those crappy recessed trackpads, trackpads with that awful scroll strip (it's even more awful than the on-screen scroll bar - the mouse wheel is a great invention), all sorts of media keys, volume controls etc that are nowhere near as easy to use or logically laid out as the ones found in the Apple keyboard function keys. HP even has a very poorly performing touch strip for volume control on some of their laptops.
Then come the inputs and outputs. I don't know about you, but plugging headphones into the front of the laptop is not convenient. I also don't care about having a bulky VGA port adding thickness to the laptop when simple adapters (that are easy to carry with you always) could do VGA, HDMI and DVI easily. Speaking of adapters, the power adapters most PC laptops have are bulky and annoying. Apple's adapter where you can coil the cable around it nicely is very handy. Likewise the interchangable plugs are a good thing.
It's all the little things that make using a Macbook Pro easier than an equivalent PC laptop. I truly wish PC manufacturers would hire some designers with an eye for usability.
This is trolling. Bringing any functioning computer to market is a huge undertaking and design is always important. Yes, Apple spends more on design and the customer pays a premium, but to declare that few pay any attention to functionality and ease of use? Absurd.
Agreed, the Macbook trackpad is awesome. I used to hate the fact that Apple laptops forewent the right mouse button in the name of "design". But now, they have done away with it completely and the multigesture works great.
Volume and brightness are typically duplicated in the function keys, the same thing you seem to think is logical on an Apple keyboard. So, you just don't like the extra input? That is a personal preference and I had a Dell with extra media keys I used all the time. Having additional media keys results in a less sleek design but a more functional machine (as long as they don't break like the ones you have experienced on the hp.)
The displayport is the best from a technical perspective, but to show you how incredibly lacking in pragmatism they are, they force the user to carry multiple adapters. This is terrible design from a functionality standpoint. Someone at Apple finally won a minor victory by allowing the mini to have an hdmi port. Interchangeable plugs are a good thing? More accessories to buy and more crap to carry around is good? I disagree completely.
My responses to your posts make it clear (lack of useful video ports, additional media keys) that PC manufacturers hire designers with more of an eye for usability than Apple does. Apple has great trackpad and I agree other OEMs should jump on board. The usability about apple I like over pcs typically falls in the OS arena, not the hardware one. Hardware wise, the Mac looks super cool, but has much less "useability". Two usb ports, packed so closely together that only one may be useful?
Just because Apple would prefer to hold out for high profits and give up market share, has no bearing on the Mac vs PC argument. They're just different. I use both, appreciating each ones strengths. I have no desire to bash either.
You mean the two ports I am using right now?
Lol what is that guy on about that only one is useful? I've used both ports at the same time on numerous occasions.
It's possible to use both ports at the same time, but certainly the connectors will touch or even push each other. Some connectors are small enough to avoid that, but most of them will simply push each other.
It's clearly a design flaw of the MacBooks chassi.
My experience, after using win 98/XP/Vista/7 over the past 10 years or so is that the Mac just lets me get on with whatever it was I switched it on to do in the first place.
The windows experience is that, all too often, I would switch it on to a raft of notifications about problems/updates/patches etc that I would then have to spend time dealing with rather than the job I switched it on to do.
Macs are not, never have been and never will be totally trouble free but there is definately less day to day maintenance than with windows.
Like it or not, having 1 company making the hardware AND the OS means better compatibility and fewer problems overall.
I don`t hate windows by any means, in fact given the vast number of unique hardware combination's it has to run on I think it does a remarkable job on the whole but I can`t be bothered with maintaining it anymore.
Switch on, start working, job done........That`s my Mac experience
The windows experience is that, all too often, I would switch it on to a raft of notifications about problems/updates/patches etc that I would then have to spend time dealing with rather than the job I switched it on to do.
Macs are not, never have been and never will be totally trouble free but there is definately less day to day maintenance than with windows.
Like it or not, having 1 company making the hardware AND the OS means better compatibility and fewer problems overall.
I don`t hate windows by any means, in fact given the vast number of unique hardware combination's it has to run on I think it does a remarkable job on the whole but I can`t be bothered with maintaining it anymore.
Switch on, start working, job done........That`s my Mac experience
I just plugged in 8 different devices and they all fit perfectly. Now i do agree they could have placed them a tiny bit further apart.. but personally I have never had something not fit.
Many PC laptops are far from elegant in aesthetics and the placement of various connectors, the key spacing and feel, the afore-mentioned trackpad are all signs of crappy design. Some do better in some areas than others but Apple seems to be the only laptop manufacturer that gets it right all they way IMO. You rarely see any other manufacturer actually bringing true improvements to laptops beyond the yearly spec upgrades.
Extra keys means less space for the keyboard etc. The HP touchstrip is a perfect example of poor implementation. The touchstrip is just awkward to use, there's no way to accurately set the volume. By comparison the three buttons Apple uses are perfect. The function keys are very rarely used in OSX and even in Windows they are becoming less common choices for keyboard shortcuts so cramming the playback, brightness etc keys as secondary functions for the function keys is a good idea.
I think it's a minor price to pay for having a thinner laptop. After all most don't use the video outputs all the time and usually have a case to carry the laptop in so two small adapters isn't really extra weight. The only problem is that Apple charges extra for them, they should come with the machine at least for VGA and HDMI. The interchangable plugs are great because that way you can easily use the native plugs in various countries without adapter plugs that, unlike the video adapters, are quite bulky. The Apple adapter plugs also work with the iPhone charger so that's a plus for me at least.
The only thing that don't fit the USB ports well are 3G and USB sticks. Sure, they could be spaced a bit further but I haven't really had any real problems with them.
I never see any Apple paid advertising. The reason that they get all that publicity is that they run closed shops and succeed in generating a high rate of paying users much like cell phone companies do. The New York Times, New Yorker, Wall Street Journal all connect themselves with Apple.
Windows on the other hand is connected with the 'keep it free" movement. Windows users are looked upon as a bunch of penniless commies. You can bittorrent with OSX, but their user base is still where most of the "pay for everything" people reside, so the corporate media continue to pump Apple.
It's money and capitalist ideology converging.
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I have to disagree with you. VGA may not be dead in the enterprise, because of all those old VGA projectors in conference rooms, but, VGA should have been dead long ago. I am glad Apple does not waste energy and space on it. Displayport has the best bandwidth and supports HDMI easily. This was a good design choice by Apple. In fact, most of the time, it seems to me that Apple has made good trades for laptops-- although I detest this new trend towards glossy-only displays.
And, speaking of trackpads, I may be forced to buy another Windows laptop. Any Windows laptop maker use decent trackpads - on which product lines? I've seen so many bad ones-- I would love to narrow my search.
Lemme see thorugh my life with my machines I've owned I've used hyperion H-dos, dos 6, dos 6.22 (ahh the memories), windows 3, windows 3.1(1), windows 95, windows 98, windows me, windows 2000, windows xp, windows 7 and of course OSX 10.4-10.6.
In terms of laptops I've had (in order) Compaq 'portable' 8088, toshiba 286, pentium 75, 12" iBook G4 1.33ghz, 15" g4 powerbook 1.0ghz, 17" macbook pro 2.4ghz SR (mid 2007), 17" macbook pro 2.66Ghz (early 09), and our households most recent addition a Sony vaio EB 15" i5 2.26ghz.
In the debate about which is better I think it depends on what your needs are.
From a hardware point of view, any modern laptop will generally perform excellent for word processing and web surfing. It is when you begin to use specialty programs or do competitive gaming wiht new demanding games that your needs differ.
In terms of osx vs windows, I use both extensively, I prefer osx, but windows 7 is the best of the windows bunch so far. If one had to use windows that is the one to use.
I also prefer the build quality of the mac. While it costs more to make (which is reflected in the cost), I believe that getting a good hardware balance for the software is the goal apple is going for, not necessarily the latest and greatest.
Our sony works fine, no major issues, it has a faster graphics card than my 09 mbp, but I don't care. The 2.26 is as fast (clock wise) as my 09 octo mac pro, but feels much slower, this is software that affects this. Windows feels slower so you need to clock up to make it feel faster. OSX simply works faster for me YMMV though.
The sony has a crap trackpad, the side scrolling feature and 'gestures' really suck, I also find myself tapping unintentionally on it, never an issue with my mbp's excellent trackpad.
I know I am comparing my 2500 mbp to a 1000 sony, but short of buying a 2500$ dell/hp/etc it is hard to compare, and that is the biggest issue here.
PC manufacturers use many different parts and have many different models to cover many different price levels and segments.
For example Dell has 6 or 7 (depending where you look) lines of laptops (inspiron mini, inspiron, xps, studio xps, precision, vostro, alienware, and adamo), each with varying sizes within their categories and apple, breaking it down to dell's simplification has 3 , air, macbook, and macbook pro.
SO apple has to cover the whole range of user with basically half the range of laptops, meaning they cannot simply make the most advanced, as it would place it too far out of price range for some, and they cannot make the cheapest, because that business model actually threatens innovation (by making things cheap your r&d focus becomes making it cheaper and cheaper, meaning you have no cash flow to invest in emergent technologies or innovations as they are too costly to implement (you cannot subsidize some expenses with volume, the ps3 almost failed because of this) Instead of being the cheapest on the block, apple takes a middle-road approach and produces a well rounded laptop, that does most anything that people need it to and they put the money into making it wokr well (quality). A large portion of the profit they reap goes into r&d for things like osx (what other pc maker is making their own os these days?), interface (firewire comes to mind), product design (good looking functional product), et al.
So looking at it through that lens, a mac can be more expensive than a pc laptop, but often there are hardware differences. If you look at pcs that are similar in spec (as close as possible) from the major companies you will find that macs really aren't too far off for what you get.
So it comes down again to your individual needs and your individual preferences. Does windows work, yes. Does osx work, yes. Which do you want to use everyday though? Which offers you the most productivity (less downtime/maintenance)? Also ask what your software needs are.
For me I'll likely stick to mac. I plan on buying the 2011 macbook pro (17 again), but am I tempted by machines such as the dell precision m6500? yes, I use windows a lot and the specs in that machine look great (dual hdd capacity (+raid), mobile workstation graphics, up to 32gb ram, etc.), the price is comparable to a mbp, BUT the processor is only a 1.7ghz i7... it may be a true quad, but clock still counts for something on many programs... so you have good and bad with each, weigh pros and cons and go from there.
Hope that was as impartial and informative a contribution as possible
In terms of laptops I've had (in order) Compaq 'portable' 8088, toshiba 286, pentium 75, 12" iBook G4 1.33ghz, 15" g4 powerbook 1.0ghz, 17" macbook pro 2.4ghz SR (mid 2007), 17" macbook pro 2.66Ghz (early 09), and our households most recent addition a Sony vaio EB 15" i5 2.26ghz.
In the debate about which is better I think it depends on what your needs are.
From a hardware point of view, any modern laptop will generally perform excellent for word processing and web surfing. It is when you begin to use specialty programs or do competitive gaming wiht new demanding games that your needs differ.
In terms of osx vs windows, I use both extensively, I prefer osx, but windows 7 is the best of the windows bunch so far. If one had to use windows that is the one to use.
I also prefer the build quality of the mac. While it costs more to make (which is reflected in the cost), I believe that getting a good hardware balance for the software is the goal apple is going for, not necessarily the latest and greatest.
Our sony works fine, no major issues, it has a faster graphics card than my 09 mbp, but I don't care. The 2.26 is as fast (clock wise) as my 09 octo mac pro, but feels much slower, this is software that affects this. Windows feels slower so you need to clock up to make it feel faster. OSX simply works faster for me YMMV though.
The sony has a crap trackpad, the side scrolling feature and 'gestures' really suck, I also find myself tapping unintentionally on it, never an issue with my mbp's excellent trackpad.
I know I am comparing my 2500 mbp to a 1000 sony, but short of buying a 2500$ dell/hp/etc it is hard to compare, and that is the biggest issue here.
PC manufacturers use many different parts and have many different models to cover many different price levels and segments.
For example Dell has 6 or 7 (depending where you look) lines of laptops (inspiron mini, inspiron, xps, studio xps, precision, vostro, alienware, and adamo), each with varying sizes within their categories and apple, breaking it down to dell's simplification has 3 , air, macbook, and macbook pro.
SO apple has to cover the whole range of user with basically half the range of laptops, meaning they cannot simply make the most advanced, as it would place it too far out of price range for some, and they cannot make the cheapest, because that business model actually threatens innovation (by making things cheap your r&d focus becomes making it cheaper and cheaper, meaning you have no cash flow to invest in emergent technologies or innovations as they are too costly to implement (you cannot subsidize some expenses with volume, the ps3 almost failed because of this) Instead of being the cheapest on the block, apple takes a middle-road approach and produces a well rounded laptop, that does most anything that people need it to and they put the money into making it wokr well (quality). A large portion of the profit they reap goes into r&d for things like osx (what other pc maker is making their own os these days?), interface (firewire comes to mind), product design (good looking functional product), et al.
So looking at it through that lens, a mac can be more expensive than a pc laptop, but often there are hardware differences. If you look at pcs that are similar in spec (as close as possible) from the major companies you will find that macs really aren't too far off for what you get.
So it comes down again to your individual needs and your individual preferences. Does windows work, yes. Does osx work, yes. Which do you want to use everyday though? Which offers you the most productivity (less downtime/maintenance)? Also ask what your software needs are.
For me I'll likely stick to mac. I plan on buying the 2011 macbook pro (17 again), but am I tempted by machines such as the dell precision m6500? yes, I use windows a lot and the specs in that machine look great (dual hdd capacity (+raid), mobile workstation graphics, up to 32gb ram, etc.), the price is comparable to a mbp, BUT the processor is only a 1.7ghz i7... it may be a true quad, but clock still counts for something on many programs... so you have good and bad with each, weigh pros and cons and go from there.
Hope that was as impartial and informative a contribution as possible
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So essentially you have no idea about Windows. I hope you dont go around saying OS X is superior like an ignorant fool
Wait, are you saying that we're not supposed to go around and do this?
Dont waste your time right now. This is one area Macs excel over "PCs".
Synaptics is coming out with a new capacitive clickpad that is supposed to rival Apples glass trackpads. until then I havent found a solution as good as Apples.
I have the Envy 14 and if they update the line with new clickpads I may sell my current and buy a new one (If I can manage to not lose more than $100 in doing so) I got a huge deal on my Envy 14 and aside from the medicore clickpad I love it.
Unlike the guys on this site that worship Apple and spread anti-MS FUD and Apple propaganda, I tell it like it is.
Go back to thinking there was a Windows 97 that you ran 13 years ago. I just can't belive some of you think you're close to qualified to give info on a system you havent (supposedly) ran in 13 years.
BTW in 97, what was Apple doing?