MacBook Airs Trickling In, Apple Stores, SSD

Clive At Five said:
You'll have a hard time convincing me that you NEED an MBA.

-Clive
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Maybe Apple should check with you first before manufacturing the next product? :eek:

This way you can coordinate my next computer purchase straight from the Stevenes himself and save me the trouble of making any choices. We should all put you on the payroll here at MacRumors for your service.
 
"The funny thing is that the computer IMO is so physically attractive and well put-together that I couldn't help but feel like pouring the money into it to make the inside match the outside"

that is what one of the initial reviews said.

at least he is honest. people want it because it is sexy. and his honesty extended further when he said you have to "pour" money into it. you don't just upgrade, you pour the money in.

i would like to know how the solid state drive helps though, as far as speed goes. i would like to see some benchmarks of the MBA vs the 15" MBP. i must admit, if the numbers are close, I guess you could somehow justify spending a massive amount of money on it.

i am going to hold out for a 17" MBP with a massive hard drive that can replace my 3 year old dual processor G5 powermac.

it is sexy though. but i'm not shallow enough to buy something on the basis of "sexy." then i would have to shop at abercrombie and watch next top model
 
Small White Car said:
iPods and iPhones don't have a security slot AND they're pocket-sized.

Having trouble figuring that one out too?
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I'm not having trouble with anything apart from your asininity.

Trust me, they've got their methods.
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Yeah well that's great, for THEM.

This is Apple's first lappy in my memory without the security slot - the meat of my comment lay in how users might want to see how THEY can go about securing the device without one. MBAs don't quite fit in a pocket.
 
I have a 1.8+SSD which I spent $3,200 on, and I am really nervous about this 8 - 8.5 hour battery charge problem.

If this is the case, my MBA will be going back to Apple.

When, or when, is Steve, Johnny, and Apple going to understand that beautiful design that does not equate to success. It is this design + the quality of what we buy that makes us spend. Bad build quality, terrible screens, heat issues, buggy ipod software, leopard bugs galore, etc., etc.

But I am hopeful.
 
Clive At Five said:
/snip/ MBA seems like a fiscally poor choice compared to its very-slightly-larger sibling, the MacBook. /snip/
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Hmm, fiscally poor in your opinion based on your assessment of your needs.

My money got plunked on the barrelhead for the MBA for my own reasons, including the look, the aluminum and the weight. And more: I don't need it to have a zillion ports because I got four other machines with those ports and as I speak, 100% of them are sucking air. I did want the SSD. I went for the 1.8GHz option because it's my first intel-inside-Mac and the price difference on the chips seemed an ok investment, even if it's only an investment in Apple's and Intel's engineers' lunch menus. They are worth it to me! I want them to be happy!!

OK, to the brass tacks: It's the weight that did it for me. And the waiting that did me in. Who knows if Apple will ever get it that some people really do want a 12" intel-inside Mac laptop, something updated and down-weighted from the G4 12" Powerbook? They've given me the fantastic iPhone for the superportable side, I can live with their 13" MBA on the ultralight laptop side. I don't feel like a loser in saying gee okay lay that 13" screen on me. I am looking forward to not dragging the damn 15" Powerbook upstairs every time I want to select a few fabrics or check in some new ones. I love the powerbooks but they are heavy on the third trip, and the tenth... having a three pound Apple laptop on the way here is a really big deal to me. Huge!!

I'm a big fan of wireless. I use less external storage than I used to, and more internet access. I'm not a gamer. I research and write and take photos and calculate stuff in spreadsheets, email, transact, play music, watch TV and movies. I need to run around the house with the thing all day long while I work because my studio space is separate from some of my related workspaces. I could spring for a MacBook Pro but I don't need one, and it's too heavy to be flying up and downstairs and out in the yard with it. I am exactly the person for whom Apple made this great little flyin' machine they've named the MacBook Air.

Now I'm no fangirl when it comes to build quality so I hope this mba is on the straight and narrow path in that department or I'll become a thorn in Apple's side like I've never been before. Well maybe once or twice ;)
 
milo said:
And the point that you miss is that the goal of the MBA isn't to be the most fiscal choice. It's to be the most portable. Some people are willing to pay extra for that portability. Obviously you are not one of them, but that doesn't mean those people don't exist. Is that so hard to understand?
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Evidently, yes... It is.
 
Clive At Five said:
Okay, A, I stand behind the "financial sense" statement using paragraph 3 of post 61 as my reasoning. Did you read the whole post?

And, B, people KEEP ON USING the "MBA is almost HALF THE WEIGHT of the MB! and HALF AS THICK!!!1!1!!" argument. I'm saying that such a weight reduction is of little relevance when the item in question is as small as it is already.

Take a piece of bread. Pick it up. Is it easy to tote? Slice it in half and pick up one of the halves. It now weighs half as much. Is it twice as easy to tote? Scientifically speaking, yes, it takes half as much energy to move it from place to place, but we're talking about Joules here... fractions of Joules.

Same goes for the MacBook. It's five pounds. That's less than my cat. Anyone complaining that 5lbs is too heavy either has severe, severe back problems (for which I sympathize) or is a wimp. Sorry, there's no other way to slice it... no pun intended.

I'm not being immature or attacking people, I'm stating what I think is a reasonable argument. Calling someone a wimp isn't an attack when it's true. And wimps do exist. Same thing with being fiscally wise. There are a lot of people out there who just blow away their money on The Next Big Thing, somtimes even when there are bills and mortgages to pay. I'm not making this up. It does happen.

If you have money to throw away, then yes by all means, buy an MBA, but it does not represent a good value when compared to the alternatives, namely the MacBook. You'll have a hard time convincing me that you NEED an MBA. This makes it a toy. A glamour-piece. A Cube 2.0. A status icon... all these things, but not a cost-effective computer... ever.

-Clive
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You are indeed correct, but it still comes down to personal preference. Side-by-side, spec-for-spec, does it all add up? Who cares? If you want one and it does what you want, get one if you can. If not, um, don't.

The whiners are the ones who (a) wanted a different product to be announced; (b) want but can't afford/justify one; or (c) just like to whine and be negative.

It's the old A->B car problem again. A Kia will get you there, as will the Aston, but... and there it is folks: BUT...
 
Clive At Five said:
Even among laptops, it does not compare price vs performance (and even vs size).
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So I guess you get to be the arbiter of how much value a reduction in size is worth? Obviously, there are people who feel that the size is worth the price - what makes you "right" and them "wrong"?
:rolleyes:

You've made your point: the size reduction isn't worth the extra money to you. We get it. So why do you insist that anyone who doesn't have the same opinion of you is stupid, or lazy, or whatever? And why keep going on and on and on and on about it? Honestly, since you're not the target market for this why should we care what you think?
 
Clive At Five said:
...a status icon... all these things, but not a cost-effective computer... ever.
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It's not meant to be a cost-effective computer. That's what the MacBook is for.

I think the MBA is worth the price because, surprisingly, I am the target market for that computer. I wouldn't consider a MacBook. I think the lack of optical drive is a great feature. Yes, feature.
 
LizKat said:
Now I'm no fangirl when it comes to build quality so I hope this mba is on the straight and narrow path in that department or I'll become a thorn in Apple's side like I've never been before. Well maybe once or twice ;)
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I'm holding it in my hand, and you will not be disappointed at all.
 
ricosuave said:
Maybe Apple should check with you first before manufacturing the next product? :eek:
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You may kid, but it sounds like a good idea to me. I mean, not that they check with me per se, but if they asked a real person what they thought, it wouldn't hurt. It seems to me like they've lost track of what their customers actually want.

I see people on here begging constantly about what they want to see from Apple... the two most common requests are a 12"PB replacement and an xMac. The MBA, as I've read from many 12"PB fans, is not a suitable replacement, as it isn't a complete computing solution if you want it to be (needs a host PC, and no built-in optical drive) and they were looking for something with an actually smaller footprint... not thickness. While I don't share the desire for a 12"PB replacement, I certainly find their request reasonable, and would consider it something relatively easy for Apple to do. And I've been seeing posts like this for YEARS from a plethora of different voices, not just the same 6. Why can't Apple just appease these crowds and give them what they want instead of giving them something else?

And don't even get me started with the xMac. We begged and begged and begged for an xMac and we got a MacMini. Wtf? That's not what we wanted, Apple! Sure the Mini is a great little computer, but your most loyal fan-base has been asking for something else for the past 5 years. Is it so hard to give people what they want, or do you always have to reinvent something? Not every single Apple product has to be a smash-hit or innovation. We're okay with a product that goes under the radar as long as it does what we want, trust us.

ricosuave said:
This way you can coordinate my next computer purchase straight from the Stevenes himself and save me the trouble of making any choices. We should all put you on the payroll here at MacRumors for your service.
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I'd love to set you up with a computer customly made for you. Unfortunately Apple plugs its ears to our requests so what we actually need is left by the wayside and is replaced what Apple wants us to have.

Oh, and no need to hire me, MR, my opinions are free. :D

...but if you're hiring... ;)

-Clive
 
I don't need one but i'd love to have one. It's a whole new way of thinking how you organize your stuff and keep it light for the road.:p
 
Changing argument

Clive At Five said:
Of course I know desktops are better price vs performance than laptops. But desktops aren't portable. Even among laptops, it does not compare price vs performance (and even vs size). Sure it's small, but the MacBook is one of the smallest out there already.

-Clive
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The point is your argument was flawed. The size is a feature and one that people are prepared to pay a premium for.
 
russtic said:
The point is your argument was flawed. The size is a feature and one that people are prepared to pay a premium for.
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Dude.

I get that. Size is a feature. I know. Read the content of my posts.

I'm saying that it is very difficult to convince me that you NEED a MBA when a MB is as light as it is and as thin as it is already, has more power, and is less money.

Is .5" and 2 lbs really worth the extra $600, a sacrifice in power, the sacrifice of a plethora of ports, the sacrifice (or "feature") of no optical bay, and subsequently the REQUIREMENT of a host PC?

@All: yes yes yes, I know it doesn't appeal to me, but are you certain it appeals to you? Is it really worth your $1800? I honestly think you're getting robbed. Just thought you should know.

It's not my job to help you realize what you do and don't need so I'll shut up now. It's your loss anyway.

-Clive
 
Clive At Five said:
You may kid, but it sounds like a good idea to me. I mean, not that they check with me per se, but if they asked a real person what they thought, it wouldn't hurt. It seems to me like they've lost track of what their customers actually want.
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Nope. You don't want them to listen to a real person, you want them to listen to YOU. After all, there are Real People on here who say that the air is exactly what they want. And people on here are buying them. But that's not good enough for you. They listened to the wrong people, obviously they should have listened to Clive.

Clive At Five said:
I'm saying that it is very difficult to convince me that you NEED a MBA when a MB is as light as it is and as thin as it is already, has more power, and is less money.
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What does need have to do with it? People want the smaller size and weight, and it's worth the extra money to them. You're obviously never going to understand their point of view, so why not just let it go?

Clive At Five said:
Is .5" and 2 lbs really worth the extra $600, a sacrifice in power, the sacrifice of a plethora of ports, the sacrifice (or "feature") of no optical bay, and subsequently the REQUIREMENT of a host PC?
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To all the people already buying these, the answer is obviously yes.

I'm not in the market for a laptop right now, but I can tell you I never use the optical drive or ports on the one I have, they wouldn't be missed by me.
 
Clive At Five said:
You may kid, but it sounds like a good idea to me. I mean, not that they check with me per se, but if they asked a real person what they thought, it wouldn't hurt. It seems to me like they've lost track of what their customers actually want.


<SNIP>

-Clive
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OMG!!! I'm beginnig to feel fed up with this arguments...

I'm absolutely sure that Apple DID check with some "real" people. It is called market search (I'm not sure with the english translation, but I'm sure you got the idea). The idea is that you *LISTEN* to some people that are in the target market for the *KIND* of products you are developing.

If I were developing a 300,000 $ sport car I would do a market search with people who *CAN AFFORD* to spend all that money on a car. Listening to what a tipical housewife needs from a car is NOT useful for me (usually housewifes do NOT have 300,000 $ to buy a car and the sport car I am designing doesn't have a trunk...).

We understand that you are not representing the target market for the MBA. OK. Someone else instead yes. I think that probably they have been listened.

By the way: probably selling the MBA is more profitable for Apple than building what you asked for. They did a market search also for that.
 
Clive At Five said:
Is .5" and 2 lbs really worth the extra $600, a sacrifice in power, the sacrifice of a plethora of ports, the sacrifice (or "feature") of no optical bay, and subsequently the REQUIREMENT of a host PC?
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http://www.macworld.com/article/131864/2008/01/macbookair.html

Jason Snell sums it up well.

One reason I loved the 12-inch PowerBook G4 was that it crossed some hard-to-define weight barrier, one I hadn’t even been aware of until I started using a laptop that crossed it. The 12-inch PowerBook was so small and light that carrying my laptop around with me became an afterthought. Instead of lugging a 15-inch PowerBook from place to place, I could idly hold the 12-inch model in one hand. The MacBook Air takes that easy feeling to an extreme
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milo said:
Nope. You don't want them to listen to a real person, you want them to listen to YOU. After all, there are Real People on here who say that the air is exactly what they want. And people on here are buying them. But that's not good enough for you. They listened to the wrong people, obviously they should have listened to Clive.



What does need have to do with it? People want the smaller size and weight, and it's worth the extra money to them. You're obviously never going to understand their point of view, so why not just let it go?



To all the people already buying these, the answer is obviously yes.

I'm not in the market for a laptop right now, but I can tell you I never use the optical drive or ports on the one I have, they wouldn't be missed by me.
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I can guarantee you the MBA will account for less than 5% of Mac sales over it's lifespan. Yes there are "real people" who will buy one, just not very many of them.
 
Clive At Five said:
You may kid, but it sounds like a good idea to me. I mean, not that they check with me per se, but if they asked a real person what they thought, it wouldn't hurt. It seems to me like they've lost track of what their customers actually want.
Click to expand...

Ummm... I don't know if you got the memo... but last quarter was their most profitable ever... and their market share keeps going up... So, quantitatively speaking, you are simply, uh, wrong.

I see people on here begging constantly about what they want to see from Apple...
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First of all... you can't tell me that the people on MacRumors are your sample? The "people" you are counting are most likely the same 2 or 3 people posting over and over again hoping Apple will do something stupid like...

the two most common requests are a 12"PB replacement and an xMac. The MBA, as I've read from many 12"PB fans, is not a suitable replacement, as it isn't a complete computing solution if you want it to be (needs a host PC, and no built-in optical drive) and they were looking for something with an actually smaller footprint... not thickness.
Click to expand...

So... if you make something smaller than the 12" macbook... and you want the keyboard to feel comfortable... and you want to keep an optical drive in there... don't you think you'd have to make some tradeoffs? Hmm... maybe... some tradeoffs that not everyone would like?


While I don't share the desire for a 12"PB replacement, I certainly find their request reasonable, and would consider it something relatively easy for Apple to do. And I've been seeing posts like this for YEARS from a plethora of different voices, not just the same 6. Why can't Apple just appease these crowds and give them what they want instead of giving them something else?
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I bet you the "plethora" of voices you've been hearing are about as reliable as the other voices you've been hearing inside your head... Honest... If Apple were in the business of making computers that only 12 people posting to MacRumors want, they would cost a whole hell of a lot more than they do now.

Apple offers fewer choices to (a) simplify the sale process (b) cut down on manufacturing overhead (c) make product development simpler because you have to test fewer permutations.

And that last one is important, because it is part of the whole value propostion that Apple has over the PC world. If you want a million choices, go grab MS Windows and hit MicroCenter's BYO department.

Not every single Apple product has to be a smash-hit or innovation. We're okay with a product that goes under the radar as long as it does what we want, trust us.
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So, uh, this might be news to you but an important part of Steve Jobs wealth is based on Apple's PE ration. PE is based on investors belief that Apple will continue to grow...and grow faster than the competition. The way you do that is by staying one step ahead of the competition (at least, in the tech world it is)... and the way you stay one step ahead is by continuously releasing... block busters... not by hanging on to "under the radar" flops that no one except a few luddites who can't get over their first "girlfriend" want.

I'd love to set you up with a computer customly made for you. Unfortunately Apple plugs its ears to our requests so what we actually need is left by the wayside and is replaced what Apple wants us to have.
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See above... custom made computers don't look like the MBA, the MB or the MBP... they look like a PC or some AlienWare crap.


Oh, and no need to hire me, MR, my opinions are free. :D
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And they'll stay that way because there's no value in them.
 
mashoutposse said:
Just got back home. Wow!

<snip>

I got to play with the 1.8/SSD model. All of you who opted for this configuration are in for a real treat -- it is speedy. Basically, sub-one-bounce application loading. I wasn't able to do anything heavy-duty, of course, but the feel I got was of a total performance package on par with a current MBP. It left a strong enough impression on me that I'm seriously considering abandoning my plan of upgrading later and opting for the SSD now. The $3K pricepoint actually began to make sense. The funny thing is that the computer IMO is so physically attractive and well put-together that I couldn't help but feel like pouring the money into it to make the inside match the outside :p

I can't wait for Friday!!! :apple:
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Quote from one of the first impressions: https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/4864031/

The MBA on par with the MBP? Good joke. It sounds like someone is being a bit too blown away by first appearances.
 
numbsafari said:
Ummm... I don't know if you got the memo... but last quarter was their most profitable ever... and their market share keeps going up... So, quantitatively speaking, you are simply, uh, wrong.
.
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Did you miss the memo that Apple stock absolutely bombed after MacWorld and the MBA announcement?
 
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