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MacBook Delays? Next Tuesday?
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Peace said:
What people still do not realize is that the macbooks, according to all known rumors, is to replace the current Powerbook 12".
This is NOT Possible with IIS. Not because of games, but because of the limited Memory Bandwidth and the fact that IIS uses the CPU a lot compared to Discrete or Separate Graphics.
No-one is asking for a x1600(and thats not a high-end card). 90% of the people complaining is asking for a discrete card of any kind. People would settle with a cheap and simple card of any kind with its own memory.
And the cost for a card like that is ~30$ including manifacturing costs, and i would be one of them who would pay an extra 100$ or even 200$ depending on what card it is to have my memory bandwidth free.
I hope everyone realizes that a integrated solution along with 512mb of non-removable memory would render it impossible to use more than 1024mb ram without lowering overall performance.
Keep in mind that OS X GUI is very demanding.
Are we clear?😕 😕 😕
you have a point there. apple should at least release gaming machines while still keeping the non-gaming lineup. or at least give users the option of adding more powerful video cards. that way they have computers for everyone 🙂
listen heads -
get a f'in console if you want to play video games - no one plays games on computers, some do, but its not enough games to think you're going to be playing 'ish on a 13.3" screen anyway,
😎
get a f'in console if you want to play video games - no one plays games on computers, some do, but its not enough games to think you're going to be playing 'ish on a 13.3" screen anyway,
😎
Have all the MBP problems been fixed on the 17-inch model?
I'm dying to buy a Macbook Pro. The Pro I think because I want the extra screen space, and I'm also concerned the non-Pro won't be able to extend the desktop to an attached monitor. Those are really my main reasons. But we all know the problems the MBPs have been having. I hear the processor whine and the pulsating screens have been fixed (on what now, rev D?), but they're still hot as hell (the heat-paste-stuff issue).
Does anyone know if all those problems, including the heat issue, have been fixed on the MBP 17-inchers? It'd be a good sign if they were, suggests there will soon be a fix for the 15-inchers.
I'm debating whether to wait for WWDC in August before buying a MBP. I *hope* they'll be updated then, with a keynote and press release signal, and with the Merom processors. The Merom processor will be nice, but it will be nicer to have all the kinks worked out from the first model of MBPs. Then again, that's early August and awfully ambitious for Intel.
This raises my last question: historically when do the back-to-school deals begin? July, August? And what are the deals usually? (I've recently returned to school and now qualify for these deals.)
I'm dying to buy a Macbook Pro. The Pro I think because I want the extra screen space, and I'm also concerned the non-Pro won't be able to extend the desktop to an attached monitor. Those are really my main reasons. But we all know the problems the MBPs have been having. I hear the processor whine and the pulsating screens have been fixed (on what now, rev D?), but they're still hot as hell (the heat-paste-stuff issue).
Does anyone know if all those problems, including the heat issue, have been fixed on the MBP 17-inchers? It'd be a good sign if they were, suggests there will soon be a fix for the 15-inchers.
I'm debating whether to wait for WWDC in August before buying a MBP. I *hope* they'll be updated then, with a keynote and press release signal, and with the Merom processors. The Merom processor will be nice, but it will be nicer to have all the kinks worked out from the first model of MBPs. Then again, that's early August and awfully ambitious for Intel.
This raises my last question: historically when do the back-to-school deals begin? July, August? And what are the deals usually? (I've recently returned to school and now qualify for these deals.)
7on
macrumors 601
I think the most grueling game that I'll be playing on the MacBook will be Half-Life 2 and I've already seen video of an Intel Mac Mini playing it flawlessly and fluidly. So now I can't care less about the GPU. I do want a 1.83Ghz Duo though - primarily for iDVD encoding which I have been doing a lot lately.
mac000 said:
That's right. People who want to play Civilization, Unreal Tournament, and other games that require a computer, should get themselves a games console.
Seriously, this kind of comment gives Mac enthusiasts a bad name. I honestly do not know anyone whose primary gaming platform isn't a personal computer. Games consoles are excellent at certain types of environment, but not at everything.
Those demanding a mid-range dedicated graphics card like a Radeon in the latest portables may be wrong in terms of whether such a feature is a good idea or not (because of the power tradeoffs), but the argument that "nobody plays/cares about/etc games on computers" is demonstrably wrong. If people didn't want to play games on Macs, they wouldn't be demanding decent graphics hardware and complaining when it isn't included. Like it or not, they are complaining. They do want to play games. A console - a box designed to play only fixed-content arcade games - is not a substitute, it's a complementary piece of hardware, and will remain so for a long time to come.
Agreed, the Macbook is not going to be a games machine, Its not possible on the PC side to buy a proper games machine for iBook money
Also agreed, Apple wont go out of business if they dont release a games machine. Dont critisise those that DO game for wanting a machine thats good for it though. I will be buying a Macbook as games are not my priority, but for some, It IS a consideration when buying a computer.
Apple is trying to increase market share, hear that INCREASE.
People mostly use and buy PeeCee boxes if they have a family, or are young. These people will continue to buy PC (and usually become mac-o-phobic in the meantime) until they have a compelling reason not to. Apple does need to catch these users earlier to increase market share, and I am sure they know this.
There is probably a reason they attend e3 every year with no real games hardware. YOU may ignore the games market, wish every gamer bought a Dell and left the Apple market, but I suspect Apple would like those users to buy Apple and have a strategy in place somewhere along the line. Imagine if Apple had your "Go buy a Dell" Attitude.......
Also, the industry is proving that gamers are a very important market right now. SGI, an Apple like company building high end Video and graphics hardware, just filed for bankrupcy. Alienware, building high end games machines, became big enough that Dell have bought them to fill in a gap in their lineup. Outside Apple-land where only Dell seems to exist, Alienware have been one of the most sought after brands in a while. They dont ship many machines, or have large amounts of stock, or even ship on time, but that didn't stop them buying.
Mac users spend their lives reading rumour sites, waiting for apple to announce a speed bump. The businesses and graphic houses weigh up the moneys and decide to buy next year......
Gamers pull their credit cards out, go to a site safe in the knowledge that Dell/HP/Alienware arent holding back newer processors just so that Steve can prance about on stage. They pick a machine and they damn well buy it. And gamers shell out hard for their hardware, I mean £150 for a case, £400 for a graphics card!!! Its nuts. Its a market Apple cant afford to just ignore (and they wont).
Not just gamers too... Latest and greatest guys, Rich folk with too much money, PC Customisers, overclockers (y'know, those crazy folk who happily buy two £600 processors just in case they melt the first one)
When people buy a computer, they want one that can do the pretty games they see demoing in the shops, and run the fancy screensavers. They dont care how many seconds faster it finishes a Gaussian Blur. Mac people already have Macs... thay have that market, they need new ones, and to hit the home market games have to be at least a tiny part of that strategy.
Again, for those that cant read so good.... I am waiting for a Macbook for business, regardless of GPU, I wont be playing games on it..... so I'm not pro-gamer, but I am pro-Apple surviving, and I think the "buy a console" plan really sucks for Apples long term survival.
Also agreed, Apple wont go out of business if they dont release a games machine. Dont critisise those that DO game for wanting a machine thats good for it though. I will be buying a Macbook as games are not my priority, but for some, It IS a consideration when buying a computer.
Apple is trying to increase market share, hear that INCREASE.
People mostly use and buy PeeCee boxes if they have a family, or are young. These people will continue to buy PC (and usually become mac-o-phobic in the meantime) until they have a compelling reason not to. Apple does need to catch these users earlier to increase market share, and I am sure they know this.
There is probably a reason they attend e3 every year with no real games hardware. YOU may ignore the games market, wish every gamer bought a Dell and left the Apple market, but I suspect Apple would like those users to buy Apple and have a strategy in place somewhere along the line. Imagine if Apple had your "Go buy a Dell" Attitude.......
Also, the industry is proving that gamers are a very important market right now. SGI, an Apple like company building high end Video and graphics hardware, just filed for bankrupcy. Alienware, building high end games machines, became big enough that Dell have bought them to fill in a gap in their lineup. Outside Apple-land where only Dell seems to exist, Alienware have been one of the most sought after brands in a while. They dont ship many machines, or have large amounts of stock, or even ship on time, but that didn't stop them buying.
Mac users spend their lives reading rumour sites, waiting for apple to announce a speed bump. The businesses and graphic houses weigh up the moneys and decide to buy next year......
Gamers pull their credit cards out, go to a site safe in the knowledge that Dell/HP/Alienware arent holding back newer processors just so that Steve can prance about on stage. They pick a machine and they damn well buy it. And gamers shell out hard for their hardware, I mean £150 for a case, £400 for a graphics card!!! Its nuts. Its a market Apple cant afford to just ignore (and they wont).
Not just gamers too... Latest and greatest guys, Rich folk with too much money, PC Customisers, overclockers (y'know, those crazy folk who happily buy two £600 processors just in case they melt the first one)
When people buy a computer, they want one that can do the pretty games they see demoing in the shops, and run the fancy screensavers. They dont care how many seconds faster it finishes a Gaussian Blur. Mac people already have Macs... thay have that market, they need new ones, and to hit the home market games have to be at least a tiny part of that strategy.
Again, for those that cant read so good.... I am waiting for a Macbook for business, regardless of GPU, I wont be playing games on it..... so I'm not pro-gamer, but I am pro-Apple surviving, and I think the "buy a console" plan really sucks for Apples long term survival.
peharri said:
Nice to see an open mind 🙂 🙂 😀
I also would like to try this radical idea on for size....
There might not be a MacBook Pro 13"!!!!
What if there is a beefed up MacBook regular available instead, I would imagine it would have dicrete graphics for that little edge in performance, plus display spanning etc..... I think the iBook/MacBook will have DVI this time, so what else would there be to seperate them.
I mean, once the iBook went G4 there wasn't much between them. The 12" PB was basically an iBook with DVI out and display spanning, which actually did work on the ibook anyway, Apple just disabled it. If they do indeed come in colours, then a black one would be more appealing to business users, but what if it's black, white and alu-metal??
My mother has offered to buy my eMac so I may get a new one. (It's just about to hit the 3yr Applecare limit.)
So, rather than jumping into a new system, I've decided to see what comes out of this Macbook situation, and also to what comes out of the Rev. B Intel iMacs.
Basically, I don't really NEED a portable computer, though it would be neat. I could care less about specs, I just want it to be small. My gaming is contained to my DS so I could care less about graphics. 12" or 13.3"...whatever, awesome either way.
As for the iMac, if I decide that I don't want to go the portable route )because I likely wouldn't take it anywhere) I'd go ahead and get an iMac to replace the eMac. In that case, I'm just waiting for the new revision because I don't NEED one, and I may as well wait a bit longer being that we're almost up with this revision.
That's my opinion.
So, rather than jumping into a new system, I've decided to see what comes out of this Macbook situation, and also to what comes out of the Rev. B Intel iMacs.
Basically, I don't really NEED a portable computer, though it would be neat. I could care less about specs, I just want it to be small. My gaming is contained to my DS so I could care less about graphics. 12" or 13.3"...whatever, awesome either way.
As for the iMac, if I decide that I don't want to go the portable route )because I likely wouldn't take it anywhere) I'd go ahead and get an iMac to replace the eMac. In that case, I'm just waiting for the new revision because I don't NEED one, and I may as well wait a bit longer being that we're almost up with this revision.
That's my opinion.
Pokeon
macrumors newbie
Personally speaking, I am a gamer of types on my Windows (Shut up) box here. Its old school I dont have the kind of cash that those big gamers have and I am tired of windows. So I am for a Macbook cause it seems to be everything I want in a computer. The one 2 big things Im looking for is battery life and a some kind of dedicated graphic card so I can play game after I "finish" my school work. I wanna boot into Windows and load up Spore (When it comes out) and HL2 and game without going "OMFGBBQ, the lag!!!!111!!" So anything that is remotely better than a Radoen 9600 would be nice.
And to the person who is all if you wanna game go buy a console. Tryed that, there lame; you just dont get the feel you do when you sit down and play CS with all there "lame ass h4x0r".
And to the person who is all if you wanna game go buy a console. Tryed that, there lame; you just dont get the feel you do when you sit down and play CS with all there "lame ass h4x0r".
kresh
macrumors 6502a
Apple does not think games are that critical.
I am not opposed to Apple's machines being able to play games.
I am not sure Apple thinks that in order to grow market share they have to have killer game machines. If they did you would see an Game Programming Unit at Apple. Microsoft did so and it was a huge success for them (not the Xbox, I'm talking about the software side). Microsoft has some excellent computer games.
Apple has tons of cash. It would not be that terribly expensive for them to start a gaming division of programmers, developers et al.
It would be nice if in that new massive campus Apple is about to build there will be such a gaming unit. It would be cool if Apple developed 6-8 great games and a game engine (game spy'ish) to license to 3rd party developers. Does anyone doubt that Apple could code some awesome games?
I am not opposed to Apple's machines being able to play games.
I am not sure Apple thinks that in order to grow market share they have to have killer game machines. If they did you would see an Game Programming Unit at Apple. Microsoft did so and it was a huge success for them (not the Xbox, I'm talking about the software side). Microsoft has some excellent computer games.
Apple has tons of cash. It would not be that terribly expensive for them to start a gaming division of programmers, developers et al.
It would be nice if in that new massive campus Apple is about to build there will be such a gaming unit. It would be cool if Apple developed 6-8 great games and a game engine (game spy'ish) to license to 3rd party developers. Does anyone doubt that Apple could code some awesome games?
Holy cow... I didnt realize i would start a torent of "get a gaming consul you PC jerk" (Not quite in those words of course) comments posted in regards to my simple question. All I recall saying was I would like the option of being able to play a game every now and then while out on the road, I hardly asked for the ultimate gaming machine. I am well aware the alternatives if I was. Thank you for the comments though gents. "wyrmintheapple" your statements were both helpful and informative, as to the others... sorry to upset you with the mention of the dreaded "g" word...dare I say it "gaming"....
Tempus
macrumors newbie
apple dosen't give 2 poops about gaming. they use those sweetass video cards for their sweetass color and sweetass resolution. The fact that they can generate polygons are a plus. (and apple capitalizes on it) I dont see apple releasin a gaming machine anytime in the near (4 years) future. initially, there arent enough games for apple to begin with.
the other side of the argument is that you can now install windows on an intel based mac, then you can play games on it. mac knows that their products is tons more 'spensive than buying a crap peecee and putting a beast video card in it. gaming isn't their goal. enterprise is.
the other side of the argument is that you can now install windows on an intel based mac, then you can play games on it. mac knows that their products is tons more 'spensive than buying a crap peecee and putting a beast video card in it. gaming isn't their goal. enterprise is.
Esse said:
The GMA900 and 950 are GPU cores in their own right, the GMA900 runs at 333Mhz and the 950 runs at 400, they do not use any significant additional CPU cycles. What they dont have is memory, thats what you lose.
I think Apple has a death wish
I think that is exactly Apple's attitude. And unfortunately it's also the attitude of a number of Mac fans - especially those who believe we're not allowed to criticize Apple.
Jobs has stated that he's quite content with a 4% market share - noting it's the same share as Mercedez Benz.
One problem - when Mercedes asks a 100% price premium over a Chevy they're giving you a superior engine and transmisson. Now imagine them asking that 100% price premium and giving the same power train as the Chevy - so the price premium pays only for a nicer cabin and the name brand. Would they still sell?
Well that's where the MacBook Pro is at. In Canada it's more than twice the price of a Core Duo Dell notebook that comes with 1 gig of Ram and a better burner. How can Apple ask that kind of premium? How can they continue to ask C $ 1649 for the 14" iBook when Centrino notebooks are selling for C $ 769? The answer is that there will be very few people who will be willing to pay that premium. The rest will buy the Dell.
No I'm not a troll. I own a G5 iMac and I love it and I have been waiting for a reasoanbly priced Mac notebook. But if Apple is not wiling to at least be in the ball park on price, their future on the computer side looks bleak. The iPod will save them in the short run of course.
wyrmintheapple said:
I think that is exactly Apple's attitude. And unfortunately it's also the attitude of a number of Mac fans - especially those who believe we're not allowed to criticize Apple.
Jobs has stated that he's quite content with a 4% market share - noting it's the same share as Mercedez Benz.
One problem - when Mercedes asks a 100% price premium over a Chevy they're giving you a superior engine and transmisson. Now imagine them asking that 100% price premium and giving the same power train as the Chevy - so the price premium pays only for a nicer cabin and the name brand. Would they still sell?
Well that's where the MacBook Pro is at. In Canada it's more than twice the price of a Core Duo Dell notebook that comes with 1 gig of Ram and a better burner. How can Apple ask that kind of premium? How can they continue to ask C $ 1649 for the 14" iBook when Centrino notebooks are selling for C $ 769? The answer is that there will be very few people who will be willing to pay that premium. The rest will buy the Dell.
No I'm not a troll. I own a G5 iMac and I love it and I have been waiting for a reasoanbly priced Mac notebook. But if Apple is not wiling to at least be in the ball park on price, their future on the computer side looks bleak. The iPod will save them in the short run of course.
What exactly does waiting for macbook buy you?
I'm planning to get a graduating student a computer for college. I am torn between getting a 12" refurb powerbook or a macbook.... whatever it turns out to be. I realize the powerbook can't run windows, but I really don't think that is a big deal. Student has a game console so I don't think games are a big deal either. I like that the powerbook is fully developed. I know the macbook will be faster. So.... what do you think, assuming they are both around $1,300 or so?
edit: To complicate things... how about throwing a 15" powerbook into the mix?
I'm planning to get a graduating student a computer for college. I am torn between getting a 12" refurb powerbook or a macbook.... whatever it turns out to be. I realize the powerbook can't run windows, but I really don't think that is a big deal. Student has a game console so I don't think games are a big deal either. I like that the powerbook is fully developed. I know the macbook will be faster. So.... what do you think, assuming they are both around $1,300 or so?
edit: To complicate things... how about throwing a 15" powerbook into the mix?
APPLENEWBIE said:
I suspect many people would tell you that the Intel MacBook has a future, while the G4 PowerBook does not.
If you can wait, take the MacBook. If rumours are correct it will be a 13.2" widescreen with a faster processor than the 12" Power Book. The 12" PowerBook is a bit of a misnomer - it's missing a lot of the nicer features of the 15" and 17" PowerBooks (like the back lit keyboard, the S Video out, Firewire 800, etc.).
I think Apple should boost the base memory on a Mac Mini and the MacBook(?) to 768MB or 1GB to stop all the complaing. Then on their website explain that your grahics card is using 128MB(would be neat if they could allow you to adjust how memory the GPU steals...kinda like the ol' RamDrive adjuster on OS 7,8) so oyu have more than enough to do 'cool' things with your computer. I'm a developer (well learning) but I'm a Teen developer so games are also on my mind. I would agree with most people....get a game system, but on that one day that your code won't compile and your on a deadline....a nice game of True Crime could calm you down.....directly from the Dock! Unfourtunatly I have never really owned a graphic intese game for the Mac because my newest Mac is a 400mhz imac and NO new games will run on it. I will buy a new Mac this summer. If the Macbook base model is $899 (pref. $800) or less I will but that...if not the I will get a mac mini with a SuperDrive and possibly 1GB of ram.
kugino
macrumors 65816
you want them to include a core duo, isight, remote, 1GB of ram and possibly a superdrive for a base price of $899 or maybe even $799?!?! 🙄MacMan93 said:
dream on, dude...the MB will possibly have most of those things, but it will probably start at $1099 or maybe even $1199. all the prices of the other intel macs stayed the same or took a price bump up, so the MB will probably do the same...unless, of course, apple was able to get the core duos for really cheap and decide to pass the savings onto us...however, i highly doubt this.
Machead III
macrumors 6502
7on said:
Exactly. We're students. Give us Half Life. Give us Photoshop. Give us Aperture. If that means a couple more freaking dollars or half and hour less battery time, so be it.
And yes, like some other dude said, we aren't asking for a gaming machine, we are asking for a machine that can play the odd new game without mega slowdown.
We aren't asking for UBer FRag-NErd high-end video cards, but something that won't eat up our memory and can render 3D without having a nervous breakdown.