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MacBook Pro 17" Battery Replacement $179 and Other Notes
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Quillz
macrumors 65816
I agree. Non-replaceable batteries are fine on smaller devices like the iPod that have a tendency to get replaced every 2-3 years as it is. But there is simply no reason to have a non-replaceable battery on a notebook like the 17'' MacBook Pro.
People who are buying a notebook that size are generally using it as a desktop replacement, which means that it will always be plugged into AC power and wouldn't need a battery, anyway. I don't know one person with a 17'' notebook who uses it full-time on a daily basis at school or work. Most people who own such a large notebook generally own something smaller, like a 13'' MacBook, to use as a real notebook.
And if you do cart your 17'' MacBook Pro with you everywhere... What will you be doing or where will you be that you couldn't possibly plug in your notebook into some kind of AC outlet. I don't know most people who use a notebook on the road for more than 8 hours at a time. Of course some do, but I imagine that they are in a much bigger minority than they think.
All I really got from the new battery is that Apple is just looking for one more way to get $179 from people who have already (overpaid?) for their 17'' MacBook Pro. After all, these things USED to cost $3,200, so of course Apple needs to recover some of that back.
Regardless of the complications, I think the advantages are worth trying this out. I can see Apple's rational for limiting this to the 17". It's probably their lowest selling laptop, so the risks for a live product implementation are minimal. After all, the only ones who really have the right to complain about this are the ones in the market for a 17".
I don't think they made the decision lightly. They probably have a pretty good idea of how many users need battery access based on sales and support. Weighing this against the number of people who would rather have 8 hours of capacity, Apple obviously found they have a product worth experimenting with.
After the dust settles from all this, Apple will have a good idea if this is worth implementing for the rest of the product line.
Apple isn't stupid, and I applaud the change. If you're going to try it, this is the way to do it.
I don't think they made the decision lightly. They probably have a pretty good idea of how many users need battery access based on sales and support. Weighing this against the number of people who would rather have 8 hours of capacity, Apple obviously found they have a product worth experimenting with.
After the dust settles from all this, Apple will have a good idea if this is worth implementing for the rest of the product line.
Apple isn't stupid, and I applaud the change. If you're going to try it, this is the way to do it.
This definitely won't be the case >_<
It's unibody, so the top keyboard is recessed under the aluminum.
You'll pretty much have to take the side screws out, like other posters have commented.
I wanna see a review of one of these jokers before I make any assumptions.
gglockner
macrumors 6502
I think this is a tempest in a teapot. Go to your local Apple store and a Genius should be able to replace the battery while you wait. At $179 per battery, the cost is fair. My 2-year-old MacBook - which is my primary work computer - is at 138 cycles on its battery, and it has been dragged everywhere. So if the battery is rated to 1000 cycles, it should be fine. If it fails before then, you should have a valid warranty claim.
Furthermore, a battery is not something that suddenly dies. You should have adequate time to backup your computer and setup an appointment at an Apple store.
If your computer is so critical that you can't afford for the downtime, then you need to have other contingency plans in case the computer is lost, stolen or damaged.
As for the card reader, I personally don't want one built-in. Memory card technologies come-and-go. Look at CES where the new SDXC format was unveiled. I don't want to get tied to some obsolete technology. Same thing for wireless broadband (3G, WiMax, etc.).
I can find many nits to pick with Apple but the 17" MBP isn't one of them.
Furthermore, a battery is not something that suddenly dies. You should have adequate time to backup your computer and setup an appointment at an Apple store.
If your computer is so critical that you can't afford for the downtime, then you need to have other contingency plans in case the computer is lost, stolen or damaged.
As for the card reader, I personally don't want one built-in. Memory card technologies come-and-go. Look at CES where the new SDXC format was unveiled. I don't want to get tied to some obsolete technology. Same thing for wireless broadband (3G, WiMax, etc.).
I can find many nits to pick with Apple but the 17" MBP isn't one of them.
You missed my point. The figures you've stated say you get about 60% of the life that Apple claim, so if Apple claim 8 hours you should get 4.5 hours which is a big improvement over 3.5 hours. Again, not the full 8 hours but still a 30% improvement which is pretty good.
hiptobesquare
macrumors regular
Batteries never live up to the marketing speak. NEVER.
1000 cycles is not 5 years, but closer to 3 years, one cycle per day. Some people cycle batteries more than once a day.
Batteries sometimes fail before their usual lifespan.
AppleCare treats batteries as consumeable items, not covered after the first year.
If a non-authorized person, even a skilled technician opens the computer, and Apple finds out about it, it is possible to deny future AppleCare warranty claims. So opening the bottom of the case for RAM, HD, and Battery access is likely not "user serviceable" under AppleCare, and could void your warranty. FYI, before you take your computer apart.
Current LiPo batteries in MBP 17" laptops are starting to swell up, as LiPo batteries sometimes do. They deform the bottom aluminum panel of the "battery". Are the new ones going to do the same in a couple of years? What will that do to the unibody case and bottom cover, or other internal components? Swelling of a battery is a sign to stop using it. If the battery doesn't swell, or only swells internally, it doesn't show that sign, and could get worse, and start a fire.
I have had a swollen MBP battery in my office yesterday, and I swapped RAM today, and I often have failing hard drives that I cannot easily pull, backup, replace, and re-image. I have to send them in, and that means days or a week or more downtime, and not every user is disciplined about having a backup of their data in the mean time, no matter how much I emphasize it. I can't pull their drive, and recover the data from it, let alone replace the 2.5" standard-spec hard drive if they have a MacBook Pro.
A user replaceable battery, RAM, and HD are almost necessities, and something that every other computer that is remotely close the the MacBook Pro, all have. Service time is cut WAY down, and emergency recovery is much more direct.
This is bullcrap, it is a profit-motive and design-laziness move that will BACKFIRE, since it is going to cost apple, and thus Apple's customers on the back end, to handle all this warranty service, or it will cost the customer on the front end for non-warranty service.
It would be more profitable to make the computer more serviceable, and charge more appropriate rates, as it will get more volume of service, by being a more saleable unit in the first place.
Charging 179$ for a battery and a half hour or an hour of labor is not very high margin, unless they are marking up the batteries a lot, but LiPos aren't the cheapest things. But they don't cost 120$ either, for the specs it would take to run a Laptop.
It would be better to charge the appropriate amount for the battery and make their 10% margin on that, and and let people swap out the batteries themselves, including the people who double-up their battery useage with multiple batteries.
Otherwise sell 5 minutes of labor for 15 dollars or something to change RAM or HDD, if someone doesn't want to do that themselves, but as user serviceable accessible hardware, those of us who can, are not tied down to a huge service call, especially those of us who are third party IT support, and do this for a living and DON'T have Apple's profit markup in our pockets, and not a lot of time to spare.
This may be a fine computer to use, but it is a step backwards for anyone who will have to support it from a service standpoint, if anything goes wrong, or for mid-life battery replacement.
1000 cycles is not 5 years, but closer to 3 years, one cycle per day. Some people cycle batteries more than once a day.
Batteries sometimes fail before their usual lifespan.
AppleCare treats batteries as consumeable items, not covered after the first year.
If a non-authorized person, even a skilled technician opens the computer, and Apple finds out about it, it is possible to deny future AppleCare warranty claims. So opening the bottom of the case for RAM, HD, and Battery access is likely not "user serviceable" under AppleCare, and could void your warranty. FYI, before you take your computer apart.
Current LiPo batteries in MBP 17" laptops are starting to swell up, as LiPo batteries sometimes do. They deform the bottom aluminum panel of the "battery". Are the new ones going to do the same in a couple of years? What will that do to the unibody case and bottom cover, or other internal components? Swelling of a battery is a sign to stop using it. If the battery doesn't swell, or only swells internally, it doesn't show that sign, and could get worse, and start a fire.
I have had a swollen MBP battery in my office yesterday, and I swapped RAM today, and I often have failing hard drives that I cannot easily pull, backup, replace, and re-image. I have to send them in, and that means days or a week or more downtime, and not every user is disciplined about having a backup of their data in the mean time, no matter how much I emphasize it. I can't pull their drive, and recover the data from it, let alone replace the 2.5" standard-spec hard drive if they have a MacBook Pro.
A user replaceable battery, RAM, and HD are almost necessities, and something that every other computer that is remotely close the the MacBook Pro, all have. Service time is cut WAY down, and emergency recovery is much more direct.
This is bullcrap, it is a profit-motive and design-laziness move that will BACKFIRE, since it is going to cost apple, and thus Apple's customers on the back end, to handle all this warranty service, or it will cost the customer on the front end for non-warranty service.
It would be more profitable to make the computer more serviceable, and charge more appropriate rates, as it will get more volume of service, by being a more saleable unit in the first place.
Charging 179$ for a battery and a half hour or an hour of labor is not very high margin, unless they are marking up the batteries a lot, but LiPos aren't the cheapest things. But they don't cost 120$ either, for the specs it would take to run a Laptop.
It would be better to charge the appropriate amount for the battery and make their 10% margin on that, and and let people swap out the batteries themselves, including the people who double-up their battery useage with multiple batteries.
Otherwise sell 5 minutes of labor for 15 dollars or something to change RAM or HDD, if someone doesn't want to do that themselves, but as user serviceable accessible hardware, those of us who can, are not tied down to a huge service call, especially those of us who are third party IT support, and do this for a living and DON'T have Apple's profit markup in our pockets, and not a lot of time to spare.
This may be a fine computer to use, but it is a step backwards for anyone who will have to support it from a service standpoint, if anything goes wrong, or for mid-life battery replacement.
I don't know if it has been officially confirmed, but I have heard repeatedly that upgrading ram is as simple as removing the screws holding the base cover on.
/dev/toaster
macrumors 68020
I am one of those rare types ... I lugged a 17" MBP back and forth across country few times a month for 2 years. That extra battery life was sweet and I just LOVED the larger screen. However, when that machine started to seriously show its age I requested a new machine from work. The only replacement they had was a 15" 🙁
Think about people who are traveling on a plane. NY -> SF is a 5.5 hour flight. Sorry, but I don't believe for 1 second it will last for 8 hours. *MAYBE*, and I stress *MAYBE* 6 hours. Even then, you are fairly screwed.
Sure, they are only doing this with the MBP 17". But then again, they started this crap on the MBA. Everyone said, oh its just on the MBA calm down. Well, now the 17" has it ... and the 15"/ 13" will soon follow, mark my words.
/dev/toaster
macrumors 68020
How is it legal for them to do that ... if they claim 8 hours, I should get something close to that *NOT* half of it. I find it difficult to consider 30% a big improvement.
Apple is being deceptive.
I'll be keeping my santa rosa 17 mbp for quite some time now, I'll upgrade the ram and put in a 500 gb hd instead of going for the new model, heck i may even order a new battery for it too...Its funny its 13 months old and considered classic already. Its almost like the shelf life of new music these days. I like my firewire 400 and full dvi port as well.
.Chris
macrumors 6502a
The keyboard is fine. I do agree they could at least give a BTO OPTION for a keypad. Those who want a keypad can add it to a custom order, those wh odont dont have to brother with one.
wkw
macrumors 6502
I think this new battery technology is really interesting. I applaud Apple's efforts to be more green. They got GreenPeace off their back, right? Thats good! Also $179 for an 8 hour battery is a good deal imo compared to 129 I would have to pay for a used MBA battery from ifixit.
I understand the frustration of those who need multiple batteries though. I bet 3rd parties will start coming up with some interesting solutions for that dilemma. A small portable charger/battery pack perhaps. It would be neat if this pack used the same type of cells that are in the new 17" and had enough juice for 16 hours or so and just weighed a couple of pounds.
I have to say that dumping the fw400 seems a bit premature. FW800 is not that common and somewhat more expensive generally while there are LOTS of very affordable drives that offer fw400.
I understand the frustration of those who need multiple batteries though. I bet 3rd parties will start coming up with some interesting solutions for that dilemma. A small portable charger/battery pack perhaps. It would be neat if this pack used the same type of cells that are in the new 17" and had enough juice for 16 hours or so and just weighed a couple of pounds.
I have to say that dumping the fw400 seems a bit premature. FW800 is not that common and somewhat more expensive generally while there are LOTS of very affordable drives that offer fw400.
NATO
macrumors 68000
I disagree 😛 I love the Chiclet keyboard - it was that, the unibody construction and LED-backlit glossy display which made me upgrade my original MacBook Pro to the new 15" Model.
.Chris
macrumors 6502a
I'm surprised they didn't drop firewire all together as they did on the macbooks. I didnt get steve's comment "most HD camcorders come with USB cables," Yeah, ones that want people to wait half a day to download a 90 min movie...
One word: Mobile
Pfsh, 8 hours with just the screen saver on. To be honest, why would you want a laptop that big? and for that price you could get a mac pro, and a decent monitor.
I have a 17'' Macbook Pro and an eight hour battery would be a life saver for me. It would help in long car rides (obviously when I'm not driving), at cafes when I can't sit near a plug, and also let me take it to all of my classes throughout the day without having to find a plug in between. To have an actual full day's work without having to plug in, for me, is unreal. I use the MBP for graphic/web design and programming - nothing too demanding on the battery so I feel that I would get the full 8 hours out of it and if I had that cash on hand I would totally upgrade.
petermcphee
macrumors 6502a
To the people calling this "unacceptable":
You are not the market. You are, at best, an extremely vocal minority of consumers. If this choice that Apple has made is indeed "unacceptable," the market will let them know by voting with their dollars.
I am going to bet that this choice will be acceptable to most, and that your speculative complaints will remain the minority.
Until then, enjoy.
You are not the market. You are, at best, an extremely vocal minority of consumers. If this choice that Apple has made is indeed "unacceptable," the market will let them know by voting with their dollars.
I am going to bet that this choice will be acceptable to most, and that your speculative complaints will remain the minority.
Until then, enjoy.
Helps explain a lot.
solipsism
macrumors 6502a
After 1000 full charges you should be at 80%. I have gotten 500 charges out of batteries and still been in the 90%. If the battery does fail too soon, then their would be legal recourse for the consumer, but honestly, how many people keep a laptop for more than 5 years?
There is no battery compartment. You remove 10 screws and you have access to everything. It's actually quite simple, it's only an issue if this large battery is not enough for you, but seeing that extra batteries are one of the least sold accessories it should only be an invented issue for most people.
And the new one is only 2 more screws. i don't think a HDD needs to be accessible like a battery as you don't change them out, but with an 8 hour battery with a 1000 cycle recharge life, even the battery doesn't need to be accessed for most people. It's seems like a good call on Apple's part. For comparison, the old polycarb MB still had 3 screws to remove to get to the RAM and HDD once the battery was removed. For the HDD and RAM we are only talking 2 minutes extra.