That's a valid, and yet mute point: wouldn't a hard drive die out in less than five years (more like 3-4)? It's hard for me to imagine someone using a laptop for more than 5 years - especially someone who cares enough to buy the top-of-the-line version (most likely a power user or designer of some sort).
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MacBook Pro 17" Battery Replacement $179 and Other Notes
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That's a valid, and yet mute point: wouldn't a hard drive die out in less than five years (more like 3-4)? It's hard for me to imagine someone using a laptop for more than 5 years - especially someone who cares enough to buy the top-of-the-line version (most likely a power user or designer of some sort).
So what if one has to go through a little more effort to install RAM and the Har drive? C'mon people, it's not like those two components have to be installed/removed on a periodic basis!
Even if it takes an hour (or two) to do that, when that cover is closed it will not get opened up again unless of a failure or one has major reason to maybe upgrade the hard drive a few years down the road.
You people are making it sound like one has to replace these components as often as a USB memory stick or something.
I'll take the 8-hour battery anytime compared to an accessibility option that would be used maybe once or twice in the lifetime of the machine.
Get over it.
Even if it takes an hour (or two) to do that, when that cover is closed it will not get opened up again unless of a failure or one has major reason to maybe upgrade the hard drive a few years down the road.
You people are making it sound like one has to replace these components as often as a USB memory stick or something.
I'll take the 8-hour battery anytime compared to an accessibility option that would be used maybe once or twice in the lifetime of the machine.
Get over it.
And just how would it connect? Evidently nobody has access to manufacture their own socket for MagSafe power input to the laptops... Maybe that will change... but it still seems like a less ideal situation than having a replaceable battery, for other reasons.
FW800 to FW400 is as cheap as a cable adapter, or a 9-pin to 6-pin cable. I have a few, they are not difficult. The data format is fully scalable, it is just the shape of the connector and whichever of the FW nodes is slower, that makes the difference.
I wonder if the controller in the new MBPs is rated to be upscaled to FW1600 or 3200, which I believe use the FW800 9-pin square-ish plug... The IEEE 1394 standards are being updated for those speeds. I wonder if the hardware is just waiting for a software update to enable, or if it is behind the times, right out of the box, or if FW is being put out to pasture, or something stupid.
It isn't as if it has e-Sata on the laptop, or anything like that...
I highly dobut most here will even buy one or even intrested in a new machine. Seems like every new mac that comes out people always say "I'm going to buy one"
No, they are not.
"UP to 8 hours". Big difference. It depends on brightness, screen sleep times, hard drive sleep times, etc.
This wouldn't work for me. I used a fw800 hard drive and fw400 soundcard when I mix live. I wouldn't be able to stand the slow down in data access.
THINK OUTSIDE YOUR LITTLE WORLD.
I work on these laptops EVERY DAY. I serve more than 250 users with 17" Mac Book Pros, but I don't work for Apple. I also serve more than 250 17" PC laptop users, and have no such trouble with user-serviceable parts, and downtime for basic service is minutes or hours. NOT days or weeks.
It is not a good policy to force people to pay lots of extra time and money for things that should be user serviceable.
And on a larger scale than just a single user with a screwdriver taking their own risk, it is not good policy to have IT departments circumventing AppleCare and working on the machines without a net. One stray static spark, one little scratch as evidence that the machine has been taken apart, and warranty can be denied for at least that applicable claim, under the AppleCare contract.
You can feel free to tinker all you like, but there are larger concerns at stake, especially to support providers.
At least the MBP still has the express card slot, and FW400 or FW800 cards, or even e-Sata cards can be had for that. That would at least get you two firewire channels, distinct from each other, one of which could scale down, while the other does not.
Plus, I am not sure if down-scaling on a firewire daisy-chain affects ALL nodes, or just the one that is rated lower. I, or you, would have to look into that. Perhaps daisy-chaining a FW800->FW800->FW400 would not down-scale the stream between the two 800 devices... but I am not sure about that.
Unfortunately, MacBook isn't so lucky, it is left with neither option for built in, nor expandable FW of any kind.
I don't care if Apple charges 30 bucks of 300 bucks for replacing batteries. The problem is this, and it is simple:
When my battery died on my MBP a few months ago, I took it out, stuck in an envelope, and 5 days later, I had a new battery. ALL THE WHILE, I used my laptop at home and at school without the battery......If I owned this new 17" and that happened, I would have been without a computer during 5 crucial days at school.
When my battery died on my MBP a few months ago, I took it out, stuck in an envelope, and 5 days later, I had a new battery. ALL THE WHILE, I used my laptop at home and at school without the battery......If I owned this new 17" and that happened, I would have been without a computer during 5 crucial days at school.
Add to the list:
CD-ROM drive usage, 3D graphics usage, hard drive RPM selection, the amount of RAM you purchased, if you have wireless networking turned on. Everything eats power. You can configure the device in ways to conserve power. I do it on my iPhone, I turn off Wifi and Bluetooth to get better battery life.
People need to grow up. Apple says 1000 FULL CHARGES, I bet most of you panzies complaining about this plug in on a 50% charge most of the time.
Second of all, who the hell keeps a computer 5 years these days? Third, if all it takes is 8 - 10 screws to access the ram, HD, and battery what is the problem? You will be able to locate replacement batteries online, most likely made by apple and sold through authorized service centers....and if you dont feel like doing it yourself, take it into the store and they will do it there. Its not like the macbook pro is sealed for life.
And to the people complaining about battery prices: TOUGH. Laptop manufacturers charge money for batteries, usually between $70-$100. This battery is 40% larger and lasts 2-3x as long. Would you rather pay replacement costs and costs for a spare for the same time period to get the same usage?
And what is the fricking difference to a normal removable battery? If exchanging the built-in battery is the same price a replacement battery, you just pay them for exchanging the battery once it has below, eg, 50% capacity, exactly the same way as you would buy a new battery once its capacity drops below a certain level. And a battery capacity does not drop from lets say 80% to 50% in a few days, so you can really plan this. Yes, you have to go to an Apple Store or an authorized service center but you have lots of time to plan this in advance.
And in the years until then you enjoy a longer battery life. This is only bad news for those who need often enough battery power for more than 8 hours, ie, those who currently have three batteries (this is rounding the numbers a bit).
Apple switched their battery testing method years ago. Sony recently swtiched to the JEITA A standard which accounts for a more real world usage, unlike the previous method (the name I forget) that measures the longest possible battery life possible, which is it not the way people use their systems. The 8 hours or 5 hours for their other machines that Apple claims are with WiFi running. Wile we'll get plenty of real-world battery tests once these machiensa re released, their are plenty of tests you can google for the other mac notebook battery usage compared to Apple's claims.
Just Two Things I'm Wondering About
Just 2 thoughts:
Re: MacBook Pro 17" NON-REMOVABLE Battery
1) When a professional photographer in the field (literally) needs to use their laptop for more than 5-8 hours of use, and they are not near a power source, what recourse do they have? If I'm not mistaken. They cannot charge the laptop because they have no external power source. They have no option for user-replaceable batteries. So... HOW exactly is this laptop any more than a hunk of useless metal when one needs MORE than 5-8 hours of power in an environment fully detached from external power sources.
Re: MacBook Pro 17" 8GB RAM
2) As I understand, the chipsets for the 15" & 17" are identical, so Apple's answer to the 15" users is a big middle finger? Crippling 15" users with 4GB of supposed "max" memory, just so that the 17" has a "visible" difference in product positioning? Not to mention, the additional 4GB through Apple costs only $1,200!!!!!!! Why not buy another MacBook!!!
Can anyone console me on the above? If not, why the hell does everyone love Apple so much, for being such a deceitful company?
Of final note, the decision to withdraw from MacWorld entirely has to be the most contemptible thing Apple could do to its loyal fan base. The sheer arrogance this move shows when their PR rep commented on their seemingly more "direct" connection with consumers today through Apple Stores everywhere makes me want to gag.
P.S. I'm not a Mac-Hater. I just feel misgivings towards a company I used to admire. I sold over $2 million Mac products and converted hundreds in a Canadian flagship store that was the first retailer to ever carry Apple in Canada. I have owned 7 different Macs since 2000, and currently own a MacBook 15" Pro.
Just 2 thoughts:
Re: MacBook Pro 17" NON-REMOVABLE Battery
1) When a professional photographer in the field (literally) needs to use their laptop for more than 5-8 hours of use, and they are not near a power source, what recourse do they have? If I'm not mistaken. They cannot charge the laptop because they have no external power source. They have no option for user-replaceable batteries. So... HOW exactly is this laptop any more than a hunk of useless metal when one needs MORE than 5-8 hours of power in an environment fully detached from external power sources.
Re: MacBook Pro 17" 8GB RAM
2) As I understand, the chipsets for the 15" & 17" are identical, so Apple's answer to the 15" users is a big middle finger? Crippling 15" users with 4GB of supposed "max" memory, just so that the 17" has a "visible" difference in product positioning? Not to mention, the additional 4GB through Apple costs only $1,200!!!!!!! Why not buy another MacBook!!!
Can anyone console me on the above? If not, why the hell does everyone love Apple so much, for being such a deceitful company?
Of final note, the decision to withdraw from MacWorld entirely has to be the most contemptible thing Apple could do to its loyal fan base. The sheer arrogance this move shows when their PR rep commented on their seemingly more "direct" connection with consumers today through Apple Stores everywhere makes me want to gag.
P.S. I'm not a Mac-Hater. I just feel misgivings towards a company I used to admire. I sold over $2 million Mac products and converted hundreds in a Canadian flagship store that was the first retailer to ever carry Apple in Canada. I have owned 7 different Macs since 2000, and currently own a MacBook 15" Pro.
I agree with express card approach but does that make it worth it for as I don't care about battery life. I don't trust usb at all when handling hard drives or soundcards from past experiences anyhow. Come to think of it I haven't had much luck with express cards either.
Assume for a second that they will offer a walk-in replacement service. They might not (they don't do this where I live for optical drive replacements and I had four optical drive replacements in the last five years but only one battery replacement).
Just try to guess how many user really need this. It is the same number of people who currently have one or probably two spare batteries. This is a pretty small percentage and as it is for the iPhone, eventually there will be external battery based chargers.
5 Year Warranty?
If Apple thinks the battery will last 5 years, then it should give a 5 year warranty, plain and simple.
I can't really imagine someone keeping a laptop and using it every day for 5 years.
If Apple thinks the battery will last 5 years, then it should give a 5 year warranty, plain and simple.
I can't really imagine someone keeping a laptop and using it every day for 5 years.
Has anyone seen or looked at the internal pics before posting here?
I'm rather shocked at the uninformed comments I'm seeing in this thread. People really need to take a closer look at this machine internally because once the back cover is off this looks like one of the most serviceable MabBooks ever. None of the major components, RAM, hard drive, or battery are hard to get to.
In fact the new 17" MBP looks elegant inside.
As for serviceability of the battery I don't see a problem here. People have complained about downtime for repairs and stuff but keys face it many would have a hard drive fail sooner than a battery. I don't think it is a valid arguement unless you can't handle a screw driver.
I'm a little upset that Apple didn't walk away from Lithium tech. Frankly the safety of Lithium batteries in general ought to be a bigger concern for people. Maybe the bigger battery will indeed help here but then again a shorted battery would generate that much more heat.
All the whining aside I see this as the first MBP that people will likely be willing to service themselves after the warranty expires. Accessibility is that good. So good infact that I could see all sorts of mods for the machine being developed.
All in all it really looks like one of Apples best efforts to date.
Dave
I'm rather shocked at the uninformed comments I'm seeing in this thread. People really need to take a closer look at this machine internally because once the back cover is off this looks like one of the most serviceable MabBooks ever. None of the major components, RAM, hard drive, or battery are hard to get to.
In fact the new 17" MBP looks elegant inside.
As for serviceability of the battery I don't see a problem here. People have complained about downtime for repairs and stuff but keys face it many would have a hard drive fail sooner than a battery. I don't think it is a valid arguement unless you can't handle a screw driver.
I'm a little upset that Apple didn't walk away from Lithium tech. Frankly the safety of Lithium batteries in general ought to be a bigger concern for people. Maybe the bigger battery will indeed help here but then again a shorted battery would generate that much more heat.
All the whining aside I see this as the first MBP that people will likely be willing to service themselves after the warranty expires. Accessibility is that good. So good infact that I could see all sorts of mods for the machine being developed.
All in all it really looks like one of Apples best efforts to date.
Dave
Its a slippery slope ... within 2 years they will force all new laptops to have this crap. People are still going to buy them of course, but where will that leave me ? Using 3+ year old hardware that I can't upgrade, good job Apple!
I highly dobut most here will even buy one or even intrested in a new machine. Seems like every new mac that comes out people always say "I'm going to buy one"
Am I in the market right now for a new machine ? Well, my GF does need a new one .... her original MBP is starting to show its age and its barely holding on, very unstable and gets so hot it actually melted the stand we bought for it. Problem is, this isn't the economy to buy a new one ... next year maybe. Then what will I do if Apple makes all new 15" MBPs have non-replaceable batteries ?
In order to suggest an UP to time ... you would need something to be able to actually reach those numbers. I doubt they will even get 7 hours with the screen all the way down, hard drive at idle, CPU at idle, wifi and bluetooth off and no applications running.
Show me a way to get 5 hours out of a 15" MBP ... you can't.
I can't find anything on the test procedures done by Apple. They should be required to backup these claims with test cases. 8 hours is complete BS and they know it. They are just trying to sucker people in.
Sounds reasonable with the conditioning and monitoring circuitry on an "8 hour" battery.
Time to see a third party market of external battery packs? Since the battery is internal it's complete covered by AppleCare right?
Time to see a third party market of external battery packs? Since the battery is internal it's complete covered by AppleCare right?
Please, tell me you are joking ... in all the Apple laptops I have had over the past few years, I have replaced zero hard drives and 3 batteries for every laptop I had. I am trying to remember the number of these machines I have had, but its more then 4. I kid you not, I have replaced so many batteries its not even funny. Half of them expanded and started to tear apart. Apple makes very very very very poor quality batteries.
I am on battery quite a bit, so believe me ... a non-replaceable battery would pretty much eliminate me from buying one.