which professional uses the 13" as main computer? the 15" and the 17" will likely keep the ODD but the 13" does not really need it. As you state, ODD are important for professional users. but those usually also need bigger screens than 13".
MacBook Pro 2011 predictions
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which professional uses the 13" as main computer? the 15" and the 17" will likely keep the ODD but the 13" does not really need it. As you state, ODD are important for professional users. but those usually also need bigger screens than 13".
yes. they need to distinguish between the three 13" models if they want to continue all three. the air is quite different, as the main purpose is to make the notebook as thin and as mobile as possible. the pro should be able to perform resource-consuming tasks efficiently and the macbook should just be a starter model which is cheap.
the macbook and the mbp are not so different now, but i really hope that apple will distinguish them more instead of discontinuing one of them.
Blue Angels
macrumors newbie
Form Factor
I was looking at the MBP teardown at ifixit. The current logic board is actually tiny compared to the rest. And then I looked at the iPad.
As we are speculating here:
What if the logic board gets moved into the screen?
- It may make it possible to use a more wedge-like shape for the base, like on the MBA. No more sharp edges for your wrists. The drive can be at the thick end. And as the optical is gone, as well as the logic board, there is probably enough room in the base for the battery (which can be quite thin, if I consider the MBA)
- it might even allow for better cooling (see iMac). At least it won't burn your lap.
I was looking at the MBP teardown at ifixit. The current logic board is actually tiny compared to the rest. And then I looked at the iPad.
As we are speculating here:
What if the logic board gets moved into the screen?
- It may make it possible to use a more wedge-like shape for the base, like on the MBA. No more sharp edges for your wrists. The drive can be at the thick end. And as the optical is gone, as well as the logic board, there is probably enough room in the base for the battery (which can be quite thin, if I consider the MBA)
- it might even allow for better cooling (see iMac). At least it won't burn your lap.
Richard1028
macrumors 68000
Then the screen gets to be 3/4" thick and the base becomes too thin. It'll fall over.
No, with the announcement of Sandy Bridge replacing the C2D's and GPU in the 13" MBP I think the Optical drive is going to stay - at least for now because the removal of Nvidia graphics tells me they still want a smaller main board to accommodate the drive.
On the hardware side, the next iteration of the 13MBP/MB will bring mainly Sandy Bridge - not much else. After that (Q1 of 2012?) perhaps the air may have evolved into something that can kill the 13MBP entirely (from a marketing viewpoint at least).
I might add for the record... that I haven't been right about anything else though.
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Then the screen gets to be 3/4" thick and the base becomes too thin. It'll fall over.
No, with the announcement of SB replacing the C2D's and GPU in the 13" MBP I think the Optical drive is going to stay - at least for now. It's obvious that Apple has decided to do this because they need to room.
i think this too... quite disappointing however...
but this way they do not have to spend money on a gpu and could therefore offer a ssd standard without cutting their profit margin too much.
Richard1028
macrumors 68000
A standard SSD might fool enough casual users into thinking the integrated graphics were better than a discreet GPU.
I actually think they could make the 13" MBP really stick out from the rest of the lineup by making it the mother of battery life - something in the range of an unprecedented 15 hours. MBP 15 & 17 users buy their machines for more power and the larger screen... mobility still being important for the 15MBP buyers but not their #1 priority (perhaps #2?). These two machines have their place and are pretty secure.
I don't know what else they could do. Apple needs to discern its 13" lineup a lot better so that each one stands on its own merits and not compete so much with each other. If not, something's gotta go.
But, if we're headed for all MBAir "Pros" with higher priced/lower capacity SSD's, short battery life, No ODD's, No discrete graphics, etc, etc... all 1/8" thick weighing 12 ounces, well... let's get on with it.
Then the screen gets to be 3/4" thick and the base becomes too thin. It'll fall over.
Maybe, I am no laptop designer. However...
...the logic board is not that thick. And the main weight is in the battery.
That, and Jobs is not the man to be held back by sheer physics
I do not follow your reasoning here. A smaller main board opens up possibilities for innovating. Keeping the Optical Drive is not necessarily the best way to go.
Richard1028
macrumors 68000
But wouldn't Apple's choice to ignore a potentially larger board imply they need the room for the ODD to stay? I think so, otherwise they'd use that extra room for a better GPU.
I'm no engineer either but would think that on-board graphics (i.e. Sandy Bridge) now means a smaller board so we may see other innovations as you suggest and still keep the OD.
The board would not be much smaller if at all. Even using Sandy Bridge's on-die GPU, you still need a southbridge to control all the other stuff. This chip would take the place of the current 320M, leaving you with very little extra space anyways. That was the crux of the entire problem with this year's 13" refresh - Apple didn't want to have to redesign the layout entirely just to be able to accomodate a CPU, GPU, and southbridge.
Basically, expect to be underwhelmed by the 13" MBP yet again unless Apple decides to completely redesign the 13" internal layout or unless NVIDIA somehow makes a chipset for Sandy Bridge in time (you know, given the rumors of an Intel/NVIDIA settlement allowing this but also considering NVIDIA's official pull-out of the Intel chipset market months ago).
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Maybe, I am no laptop designer. However...
...the logic board is not that thick. And the main weight is in the battery.
That, and Jobs is not the man to be held back by sheer physics
I do not follow your reasoning here. A smaller main board opens up possibilities for innovating. Keeping the Optical Drive is not necessarily the best way to go.
Lol no its not that thick... but then you have to add the heat sinks... and fans...
CmdrLaForge
macrumors 601
The Macbook Air - The next generation of Macbooks
The Macbook Air - The next generation of Macbooks.
What does that mean? Next generation is underpowered? Next generation has a flash drive and no optical? Is way thinner?
I mean it is clear that this is the way Apple will go, Steve said it on stage and they have it on the front page.
The Macbook Air - The next generation of Macbooks.
What does that mean? Next generation is underpowered? Next generation has a flash drive and no optical? Is way thinner?
I mean it is clear that this is the way Apple will go, Steve said it on stage and they have it on the front page.
Attachments
probably means that the new mbp will have ssd. seems like they will keep the odd and the current design.
Hellhammer
Moderator emeritus
It may not mean anything, it just sounds cool
MacBook Air is still a MacBook. I can't see Apple making MBP much thinner because then it would be too MBA alike.
CmdrLaForge
macrumors 601
It may not mean anything, it just sounds cool
I may differ - I am pretty sure it means something and Jobs gave clearly a hint where they are going with the next revision. For me its just unclear exactly what they meant. SSD, no OD, underpowered?
processor in the screen
That is right. It may be totally ridiculous to have the processor in the screen.
On the other hand: the heat sinks and fans are thick because they have been designed for the current form factor. For a heat sink we "just" need a lot of "surface". They could be flat. Actually, the screen itself _is_ a large surface (in particular for the 17").
Designing flat fans may be more difficult. But hot air does tend to rise up all by itself. So if the hot air can escape at the top of the screen, we already have some natural airflow without any fans. Plus: there is also a lot of air flowing along the outside of the screen. Much more than along the bottom.
I could even imagine a fan in the base, that blows air into (and/or along) the bottom of the screen.
The current laptops have a hot bottom because that is possibly the worst location to cool down. It is either on your lap or close to the desk. And the keyboard must not get too hot, because we do not want to have sweaty palms. So we need fans to displace the heat and vent it out at a location that we do not care about getting hot: the back.
In contrast: the back side of the screen basically consists of a lot of "dead" surface. Say it gets as hot as a heating radiator at times my mobile quad core needs to do some serious processing. As long as I am not typing on it I don't care.
That is right. It may be totally ridiculous to have the processor in the screen.
On the other hand: the heat sinks and fans are thick because they have been designed for the current form factor. For a heat sink we "just" need a lot of "surface". They could be flat. Actually, the screen itself _is_ a large surface (in particular for the 17").
Designing flat fans may be more difficult. But hot air does tend to rise up all by itself. So if the hot air can escape at the top of the screen, we already have some natural airflow without any fans. Plus: there is also a lot of air flowing along the outside of the screen. Much more than along the bottom.
I could even imagine a fan in the base, that blows air into (and/or along) the bottom of the screen.
The current laptops have a hot bottom because that is possibly the worst location to cool down. It is either on your lap or close to the desk. And the keyboard must not get too hot, because we do not want to have sweaty palms. So we need fans to displace the heat and vent it out at a location that we do not care about getting hot: the back.
In contrast: the back side of the screen basically consists of a lot of "dead" surface. Say it gets as hot as a heating radiator at times my mobile quad core needs to do some serious processing. As long as I am not typing on it I don't care.
Erasmus
macrumors 68030
Apple have a patent on using a liquid cooling system in a notebook that uses the screen as the heat sink. I don't expect it will ever be used, though.
If the CPU/GPU/bridge stuff was moved to behind the screen, the screen would have to be made probably at least 5 mm thicker, if not more. Which is doable, but more problems arise when your screen gets hot, and risks damaging the LCD panel, or the LED backlights.
I also feel moving the CPU away from RAM is a bad idea. Surely the physical path length between CPU and RAM has an effect on latency, and therefore performance.
If the CPU/GPU/bridge stuff was moved to behind the screen, the screen would have to be made probably at least 5 mm thicker, if not more. Which is doable, but more problems arise when your screen gets hot, and risks damaging the LCD panel, or the LED backlights.
I also feel moving the CPU away from RAM is a bad idea. Surely the physical path length between CPU and RAM has an effect on latency, and therefore performance.
Yes, liquid cooling in a portable system is probably asking for a law suit, sooner or later.
I do not know how hot an LCD panel can get before it suffers. I do know that the current Apple laptops typically blow a lot of hot air against... the bottom of the screen. I would expect that this "concentrated" heat will be (locally) hotter than what you will get when dispersing the heat over the entire back of the screen.
Anyway: I did not say that the ram should not be in the screen...
.No I am not high on anything (I think). It is just that Apple is known for experimenting with different form factors. I am just wondering, _if_ they are to take a new step with the MBP, what would it be, apart from the obvious of taking the OD out (eventually).
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shyam09
macrumors 68020
i had also asked this question before and Hellhammer told me this:
it is just advertising. to entice the consumers.
they will change something around, but i dont think SSD will be standard yet. My personal guess would be that they will included SSD's but not this coming revision but the next one, because they would really have to jack up the prices (which they may end up doing?) so if they included include the SSD, they will have to increase prices, and this may hurt/help their industry. its a big risk to play like that right now. If they wait till SSD's are cheaper, and since they go with Samsung/Toshiba (im not sure their price range, but it must be less than $300 for 128GB) it all leads to the second revision in the next year (maybe 2012?) with SSD's. i heard that every 10 months or so SSD prices go down a bunch? so maybe ??
or what they might do is include the HDD+SSD option (with hte flash option as the MBA?) save space and keep everything, perhaps, if possible?
Richard1028
macrumors 68000
I don't understand why everybody is bogging down on the SSD as being part of some major breakthrough in the next MBP offerings. It's already an option. (And I hope it stays that way as I can get anything Apple offers for half of what they charge).
Making SS memory "standard" would only mean Apple is redesigning the MBP unibody - making it thinner. They already did that with the Air. Mission accomplished.
I agree with what somebody said up the line... that we should expect to be underwhelmed by the next iteration of MBP's, especially the 13" version. We'll have a few months to moan about it then it's off to OSX Lion.
filfortugno
macrumors regular
ix processors, still 2gb min. ssd option but not standard, thinner, better battery, and my personal hope is for different bto colors
Richard1028
macrumors 68000
Yes. Already established.
Huh? The standard RAM is 4GB now.
Same as it is now.
thinner, better battery, and my personal hope is for different bto colors
You know this is the MB "Pro" forum, right?