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Overly Ambitious me thinks

Being as I'm ready to upgrade my Late 2007 to something new. I'm waiting and searching for all the rumors of what's "next" for the Macbook Pros as well. Most of the stuff posted about Sandy seems a little to ambitions for Apple. I've been doing tech work with apples for the past 10 years(not that it matters relevant to the discussion). They've NEVER been on the cutting edge for hardware they didn't contribute huge chunks to tech wise.

What upgrades will probably be seen:
  • MBPs 15" will remain i5/i7 MBPs 17" will remain i7.
  • GPUs will have a minor upgrade or stay the same. Pick a GPU that was new last season.
  • LightPeak will be a good possibility, but not likely.
  • Ram will stay DDR3

I would LOVE to see LightPeak in this round and I think it is entirely possible. Any tech that apple puts big investment dollars in getting the standard ratified (i.e. FW400 and 800) they tend to integrate faster. We may get lucky with that one.

What I'd love to see:
  • Drop the internal Optical Disk Drive. Or option to not have an O.D.D.
  • Do a Hybrid SSD/Platter solution. (Put system/swap/apps on SSD and leave userland on a standard 7200RPM platter.
  • Offer a hardware Raid0/Raid1 option with the removal of the ODD.
  • Upgrade to Sandy for the Procs. But, I think this is very unlikely.
 
just worried about the baseline 13 mbp

if the upgrade does have

standard ssd
better cpu+gpu
better battery life
design change

I really really hope they stick with the $1199 price tag. they need to still worry about affordability, no?

if apple could put all that in 13inch laptop at that price that will truly be innovative.
 
if the upgrade does have

standard ssd
better cpu+gpu
better battery life
design change

I really really hope they stick with the $1199 price tag. they need to still worry about affordability, no?

if apple could put all that in 13inch laptop at that price that will truly be innovative.

I'd happily pay $1500 for that :D
 
Being as I'm ready to upgrade my Late 2007 to something new. I'm waiting and searching for all the rumors of what's "next" for the Macbook Pros as well. Most of the stuff posted about Sandy seems a little to ambitions for Apple. I've been doing tech work with apples for the past 10 years(not that it matters relevant to the discussion). They've NEVER been on the cutting edge for hardware they didn't contribute huge chunks to tech wise.

What upgrades will probably be seen:
  • MBPs 15" will remain i5/i7 MBPs 17" will remain i7.
  • GPUs will have a minor upgrade or stay the same. Pick a GPU that was new last season.
  • LightPeak will be a good possibility, but not likely.
  • Ram will stay DDR3

I would LOVE to see LightPeak in this round and I think it is entirely possible. Any tech that apple puts big investment dollars in getting the standard ratified (i.e. FW400 and 800) they tend to integrate faster. We may get lucky with that one.

What I'd love to see:
  • Drop the internal Optical Disk Drive. Or option to not have an O.D.D.
  • Do a Hybrid SSD/Platter solution. (Put system/swap/apps on SSD and leave userland on a standard 7200RPM platter.
  • Offer a hardware Raid0/Raid1 option with the removal of the ODD.
  • Upgrade to Sandy for the Procs. But, I think this is very unlikely.

If they are not going to upgrade to Sandy Bridge, why exactly would they update the notebook at all? You're suggesting they are just going to do some minor tweaks that users could already do themselves, like putting in a second hard drive in place of the optical drive -- even from the most pessimistic perspective, that doesn't really make sense.

I would not be surprised if they kept the same GPU, but where do you get this idea that they wouldn't upgrade the processor? The only reason they stuck with Core 2 for the 13" was because of problems with intel's integrated graphics, which have been vastly improved in SB.
 
What are the chances of a design change anyways? How long ago did release the current design? It feels like it hasn't been around a while..
 
IMO removal of the ODD is horrible. People get the MBP for music and video production, then end up finding out they cant burn the product onto a CD/DVD?
Then there's people who like to watch movies. Rent a movie for $1 ($1.50 for BD) and that's already cheaper than iTunes and more legal than TPB.
Also I think Panasonic made a blade-SSD too. Looking at the sheer simplicity of these thngs, and the performance and the size, the blade-SSD will be either a lot cheaper or a lot more expensive than the 2.5".

Well there is always the option for an external drive even offered by Apple. I think it is convenient to have an internal drive and I would prefer if they keep it because I do watch DVDs on it and if I sit in bed with the Macbook on my lap its kind of awkward if a DVD drive hangs down on the side but whatever. If they drop the internal I wouldn't be too unhappy either.
 
I keep hearing that SSDs are moving over to a new production method (or smaller channel size) at the moment which I'm told will result in drives costing half as much as they do now (or double the capacity for the same price). This would bring 128/160 GB SSDs (the entry level size for the 13" MBs about 18 months ago) down to the level where they could be included quite easily.

Given the MBA uses a standard interface for its SSD "sticks" it seems likely that moving to this kind of drive would free up a lot of space. Perhaps as has been mentioned a 64 or 80 GB SSD "stick" together with a platter HDD (or even a 5400rpm 1.8" drive). The optical drive could go either way. Obviously people here feel it's ready to be ditched, but I guess a lot of people who are buying Macs would think twice about paying the high price and not even being able to watch DVDs or rip CDs. Given Apple has stopped bundling extras like video adaptors and remotes, it seems unlikely that an external drive would be included.

I'm guessing Apple will transition to SB as they took a lot of flack for slow upgrades in the past. It could be that Apple have approached AMD and nVidia for a discrete low-power GPU for the 13" models.

With LightPeak, I hope we see it (but it would have to come with some LP-to-USB, ethernet etc adaptors), but I'm not holding my breath. It certainly would allow Apple some bragging rights over the competitors as, let's face it, LP will become the next standard given Intel's backing and hindering of USB3.

Prediction:
i3/i5 cpus (i7 in 15/17" BTO)
New cool/lower powered GPU
2/4 GB RAM depending on model
same I/O ports as current models
128 GB SSD lowend, 256 GB SSD highend, 512 GB BTO
SuperDrive
1440x900 13"
1680x1050 15"
1920x1080 17"
 
They will most likely be thinner, have SSD default, Core i7 Quad chip available, cheaper ram upgrades, better graphics, USB 3.0. The design will take a lot from the new macbook air's design and inside components but more beefed up. :)
 
MacBook 13 will have SB Core i7 (Feb 2011 release)

If the released information about SB mobile parts are to believe, the only sensible processors for the post-C2D MacBook Pro 13 are the Core i7 25W chips (i.e. Core i7-2640LM, Core i7-2620LM, and Core i7-2610LM). Apple has been using 25W parts for the 13 inch models (except for the Air which is a 18W C2D) for a while, and the SB Core i5's (Core i5-2540M, Core i5-2520M) are all 35W except for an ultra-low voltage model which is 18W (Core i5-2530UM). There aren't even SB any i3 chips announced yet, and the current ones can't support OpenCL. No way Apple will put i3 in the 13 inch Pro model.

I'm sure Apple will adapt the SB chips as soon as possible because their graphic parts do support OpenCL. This will allow Apple to offer a 1-chip solution for the 13'' model, which means slimmer, lighter model with a longer battery life. I too would love to see the optical drive go. It's so 90's. The new SB MacBook Pro's should be released in February 2011.

One thing I do hope Apple will improve is the fan noise of the machines under load. I don't want to hear the sound of going small and green, please let me enjoy my mobile lifestyle in quiet peace.
 
My predictions:
* Core i7-2620LM, (13")
* Higher Res display 1440x900 13", 1680x1050 15", 1920x1080 17" now standard (no retina)
* No ODD, but new 'more affordable' external to appear (renamed from MBA superdrive)
* 64GB flash storage + 250GB hard drive/320GB hard drive standard, (+options to boost to 128GB flash storage + 640GB hard drive depending on model)
* +1-2 hrs battery life as defined by new 'more authentic' tests, (i.e. keep same advertised length as now, but actual time more)
* New, slightly thinner/lighter design to accommodate changes


Things we won't get:
* USB3
* LP (yet - have to wait for peripheral makers to catch on a bit first. To make debut on MP refresh?)
* anti-glare 13"
* cheaper prices
 
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I keep hearing that SSDs are moving over to a new production method (or smaller channel size) at the moment which I'm told will result in drives costing half as much as they do now (or double the capacity for the same price). This would bring 128/160 GB SSDs (the entry level size for the 13" MBs about 18 months ago) down to the level where they could be included quite easily.

Given the MBA uses a standard interface for its SSD "sticks" it seems likely that moving to this kind of drive would free up a lot of space. Perhaps as has been mentioned a 64 or 80 GB SSD "stick" together with a platter HDD (or even a 5400rpm 1.8" drive). The optical drive could go either way. Obviously people here feel it's ready to be ditched, but I guess a lot of people who are buying Macs would think twice about paying the high price and not even being able to watch DVDs or rip CDs. Given Apple has stopped bundling extras like video adaptors and remotes, it seems unlikely that an external drive would be included.

I'm guessing Apple will transition to SB as they took a lot of flack for slow upgrades in the past. It could be that Apple have approached AMD and nVidia for a discrete low-power GPU for the 13" models.

With LightPeak, I hope we see it (but it would have to come with some LP-to-USB, ethernet etc adaptors), but I'm not holding my breath. It certainly would allow Apple some bragging rights over the competitors as, let's face it, LP will become the next standard given Intel's backing and hindering of USB3.

Prediction:
i3/i5 cpus (i7 in 15/17" BTO)
New cool/lower powered GPU
2/4 GB RAM depending on model
same I/O ports as current models
128 GB SSD lowend, 256 GB SSD highend, 512 GB BTO
SuperDrive
1440x900 13"
1680x1050 15"
1920x1080 17"

I think you sold Apple way short here. SB is gonna be shown at CES in a month from tomorrow so that means it's already being put into machines right now. Intel said earlier this year they were gonna start supplying LP for production at the end of this year so that they could be ready for release at the end of Q1 2011. Apple knows they gotta step up with either USB 3.0 or LP and 3.0 isn't compatible with the Intel chips and they have propelled LP so obviously LP will be the choice. I assume that they didn't release new models in October because they wanted to wait until they could throw SB and likely LP in and allow the new iPad that should come out next month and the MBAs to generate profits in the meantime.

For SSDs, I can't imagine them making the storage capacities the same as the Airs. Probably two levels of 256 and 512 GBs. I doubt they are going to remove all the external ports right away with LP just being introduced, so they would either have to remove the optical drive or just provide one port of ethernet, mini display, and USB and abandon the SD/Express slot. If we get Light Peak I'd assume we'll only get one port, but the 17" looks like it has enough room for 2 LP ports, one USB, one ethernet and the express slot. It would make more sense to force consumers to buy an LP to expressport adapter, as I'm assuming LP speed would compensate for the loss of speed an external expressport would cause. The LP connectors look to be about the same size as HDMI; a little wider but a little thinner.

For GPUs, there's no way they stick with the 330, they will definitely go for the 460x as the 330 is pretty outdated for this price level now. That may mean a removal of the optibay for a larger battery. Another strong possibility is that they remove the optibay and go with a 128GB SSD and a 500+ 5400 rpm HDD to keep prices down and still promote the SSD. I frankly like that solution better as it allow for them to offer a 750-1TB HDD for only $100 more. For most mainstream users they dont need their media and docs on the SSD just the system and app files. I think 128 GB gives people enough room to put Adobe CS5 and Final Cut Studio on there with plenty of room for dozens of games and other large programs like aperture. Another possibility is tucking a couple of those SSD blades you mentioned under an HDD, although that might mean an increase in size of the body of the laptop which they probably wouldnt want to do as they are all about getting slimmer and lighter.

The big question mark that I haven;t heard anyone bring up is the possiblity of seeing Retina Display on a mac model anytime soon. We'll have a clear answer if we get one on the new iPad. If they can do it on an 11" iPad I'm sure they can do one on the MBP line. That would be incredible. Does anyone know of any laptops with displays that good? I havent seen any displays in person better than the HD 15" MBP. I hoped we'd see a 3G chip in the Air, but since it wasn't in a model that would be better suited for it, I doubt we'll see it in the MBP.

The MBA is so good that I don't think they're gonna keep the 13" MBP, but they may keep the 13" macbook and give it an old i5 and a 250 GB HDD and price it at $800 to get to the lower end mainstream user that they have never reached before [they could also give it an SB CPU/GPU and get rid of the discrete GPU, which is probably the future of the MBA]. However, iPad sales have been so remarkable that they may just ditch it all together and have one option per size with the ipad at the tablet size, the MBA covering 11 and 13 and the MBP covering 15 and 17.

The Sandy Bridge GPU is supposed to be very good, so an out of the box idea may be to ditch an extra GPU and do the SSD/HDD combo while keeping the optibay which would allow them to lower the price even more, but I think they'd much rather keep the discrete GPU to ensure they can claim the MBP is the ultimate gaming and professional notebook.

Also battery life will increase a couple hours thanks to Sandy Bridge and an SSD.

Final prediction: April Release, all prices drop $100. ODD replaced with more battery.
15": $1,700 [down from $1,800]: Sandy Bridge i5 2540m [2.6 GHz duo core 3MB Cache], Geforce GTX 460, 4GB-1330 MHz RAM, 256GB SSD, one Light Peak port, two USB, one ethernet port, & 14 hour battery. Optibay still there! Same display with same upgrades as current model for all these models.
$1,900: upgrade to 512GB SSD.
$2,100: upgrade to SB i7 2620QM [2.0 GHz quad core 6MB cache] and 8GB RAM.
BTO options: GTX460—>GTX480 upgrade $300, 512GB SSD—>768GB $400, External superdrive $50.
17": $2,200: Everything from the $1,900 15" plus 8GB RAM, GTX480, and an extra LP port. 12 hour battery.
BTO options: same as above plus upgrade to the i7 for $200 and the i7 2820 [2.3 GHz quad core 8MB cache] for $400. GTX580 [highest end model] for $200.
 
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Final prediction: April Release, all prices drop $100. ODD replaced with more battery.
15": $1,700 [down from $1,800]: Sandy Bridge i5 2540m [2.6 GHz duo core 3MB Cache], Geforce GTX 460, 4GB-1330 MHz RAM, 256GB SSD, one Light Peak port, two USB, one ethernet port, & 14 hour battery. Optibay still there! Same display with same upgrades as current model for all these models.
$1,900: upgrade to 512GB SSD.
$2,100: upgrade to SB i7 2620QM [2.0 GHz quad core 6MB cache] and 8GB RAM.
BTO options: GTX460—>GTX480 upgrade $300, 512GB SSD—>768GB $400, External superdrive $50.
17": $2,200: Everything from the $1,900 15" plus 8GB RAM, GTX480, and an extra LP port. 12 hour battery.
BTO options: same as above plus upgrade to the i7 for $200 and the i7 2820 [2.3 GHz quad core 8MB cache] for $400. GTX580 [highest end model] for $200.

If this is what you're hoping for, you are going to be disappointed. Although I think your CPU choices are reasonable, there is no way Apple can fit a GTX 460 (~72W) in the MBP. It's too hot. So you can forget about the 480 (~100W). If Apple finally wants to put a decent GPU in, I think they will have to go AMD. They are currently far ahead in terms of performance per watt.

Other than that, I think the 17" will only have 1 LP port (if any) and have 3 USB ports instead. I really don't think there will be any use for multiple LP ports on a laptop for a long while. More likely I think Apple will release a new line of displays which run using the LP port, and have another LP port in them, so if you have some super-fast storage solution, you can daisy-chain it off your display.
 
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If this is what you're hoping for, you are going to be disappointed. Although I think your CPU choices are reasonable, there is no way Apple can fit a GTX 460 (~72W) in the MBP. It's too hot. So you can forget about the 480 (~100W). If Apple finally wants to put a decent GPU in, I think they will have to go AMD. They are currently far ahead in terms of performance per watt.

Other than that, I think the 17" will only have 1 LP port (if any) and have 3 USB ports instead. I really don't think there will be any use for multiple LP ports on a laptop for a long while. More likely I think Apple will release a new line of displays which run using the LP port, and have another LP port in them, so if you have some super-fast storage solution, you can daisy-chain it off your display.

Actually the CPU choices weren't really that reasonable. Apple will probably be using the 2.5 GHz and 2.6 GHz i5's and the 2.7 GHz i7 in the 15" and 17" MBP's. There's no indication that they'll be going quad core for BTO. The TDP on the quad core i7's are all above what Apple has used previously for the BTO option.
 
If this is what you're hoping for, you are going to be disappointed. Although I think your CPU choices are reasonable, there is no way Apple can fit a GTX 460 (~72W) in the MBP. It's too hot. So you can forget about the 480 (~100W). If Apple finally wants to put a decent GPU in, I think they will have to go AMD. They are currently far ahead in terms of performance per watt.

Other than that, I think the 17" will only have 1 LP port (if any) and have 3 USB ports instead. I really don't think there will be any use for multiple LP ports on a laptop for a long while. More likely I think Apple will release a new line of displays which run using the LP port, and have another LP port in them, so if you have some super-fast storage solution, you can daisy-chain it off your display.

The 460 is in a few Asus and Toshiba notebooks right now so I'm sure Apple could make it work. A lot of people have been speculating that is the GPU we're going to see. You're probably right about the 480 though. Maybe they take out the ODD and put a cooling system in there?
 
Actually the CPU choices weren't really that reasonable. Apple will probably be using the 2.5 GHz and 2.6 GHz i5's and the 2.7 GHz i7 in the 15" and 17" MBP's. There's no indication that they'll be going quad core for BTO. The TDP on the quad core i7's are all above what Apple has used previously for the BTO option.

The present and future dual cores are 35W. The present and future quad cores are 45W. That is a substantial difference, but considering the performance gain, it's easily worth a small amount of cooling system beefing.

The 460 is in a few Asus and Toshiba notebooks right now so I'm sure Apple could make it work. A lot of people have been speculating that is the GPU we're going to see. You're probably right about the 480 though. Maybe they take out the ODD and put a cooling system in there?

There is no reason why Apple couldn't make a dual GTX 480M "notebook" right now, like some Alienware probably has. But they won't, because Apple sticks with GPUs that have a ~23W TDP so they can make thin, quiet notebooks with excellent battery life. And from 23W to 72W is a huge jump. And considering AMD's 5830 can do 800 GFlops using only 24W, and the 6550 and 6570 should both be under 30W TDP and have excellent performance, one of these is more likely.
 
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The present and future dual cores are 25W. The present and future quad cores are 35W. That is a substantial difference, but considering the performance gain, it's easily worth a small amount of cooling system beefing.



There is no reason why Apple couldn't make a dual GTX 480M "notebook" right now, like some Alienware probably has. But they won't, because Apple sticks with GPUs that have a ~23W TDP so they can make thin, quiet notebooks with excellent battery life. And from 23W to 72W is a huge jump. And considering AMD's 5830 can do 800 GFlops using only 24W, and the 6550 and 6570 should both be under 30W TDP and have excellent performance, one of these is more likely.

Theyve been using the GeForce in the MBP for years so I'd be shocked if they jumped to AMD all the sudden, even though you're right. Unless they're leaving Intel and using AMD's Fusion set. Also do the ATI's have switching ability to cooperate with the SB GPU like Nvidia does with Optimus?

Since the SB GPU is allegedly pretty impressive most MBPs will be using it the majority of the time and wont have the GTX 480 eating up battery too much. Not to mention an SSD will significantly cut down on battery life and the SB CPU is much more energy efficient than the current CPU. All of those factors could probably compensate for battery life, especially if they take out the OD and put more battery in there.
 
The present and future dual cores are 25W. The present and future quad cores are 35W. That is a substantial difference, but considering the performance gain, it's easily worth a small amount of cooling system beefing.

Actually the present and SB dual cores are all 35W TDP. The SB quad cores are all 45W+ TDP.

Theyve been using the GeForce in the MBP for years so I'd be shocked if they jumped to AMD all the sudden, even though you're right. Unless they're leaving Intel and using AMD's Fusion set. Also do the ATI's have switching ability to cooperate with the SB GPU like Nvidia does with Optimus?

Since the SB GPU is allegedly pretty impressive most MBPs will be using it the majority of the time and wont have the GTX 480 eating up battery too much. Not to mention an SSD will significantly cut down on battery life and the SB CPU is much more energy efficient than the current CPU. All of those factors could probably compensate for battery life, especially if they take out the OD and put more battery in there.

Apple isn't going to use a 480m. I don't think you understand the cooling requirements of a GPU like that. I was only able to find two notebooks with one even in them. Both were 17" screens, (couldn't find a 15" with one in it) and both were 2.5" thick. There's no way Apple will make the laptop over twice as thick to accommodate one. If you think so, then you don't know Apple. And they can't just cram it into a 1" thick MBP. MBP's aren't exactly unknown to be prone to overheating with under-clocked low-mid end GPU's as it is.
 
Theyve been using the GeForce in the MBP for years so I'd be shocked if they jumped to AMD all the sudden, even though you're right. Unless they're leaving Intel and using AMD's Fusion set. Also do the ATI's have switching ability to cooperate with the SB GPU like Nvidia does with Optimus?

Apple have moved to AMD/ATI graphics for their desktop products, so there's a reasonable chance they will do for their laptops too. The 5830m (or its 6000 series replacement) would be a good way to give the high end MBP a serious graphics boost.

Apple doesn't use Optimus: http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/04/inside-apples-automatic-gpu-switching.ars
 
To those predicting standard SSDs, definitely not in the 13" and probably not at all. That would raise the price, so SSDs will remain an option.
 
Actually the present and SB dual cores are all 35W TDP. The SB quad cores are all 45W+ TDP.

Oops! Very true. Now fixed. Just makes my point even more true.

To those predicting standard SSDs, definitely not in the 13" and probably not at all. That would raise the price, so SSDs will remain an option.

I very much disagree. Apple will* use blade SSD's in the next MBP. Why wouldn't they? It's an instant, and very large speed increase, which Apple won't shut up about in their marketing. Probably stick at least 64/128GB as standard, with upgrades to 256/512 GB, depending on whether Apple goes for 1 or 2 slots. And if Apple stick with standard 64/128GB, the price increase will be small.

The only real storage questions are 1 or 2 blade cards, and if Apple will keep the HDD as well.

I guess there's a very, very small chance that Apple would release entry level MBPs with empty blade SSD slots, but that would be very un-Apple-like.

* within any reasonable doubt

BTW, does anyone know what an "embedded" CPU is? Why are some of the quad core SB variants called Embedded?
 
BTW, does anyone know what an "embedded" CPU is? Why are some of the quad core SB variants called Embedded?

Embedded = Soldered onto the motherboard = Not upgradeable (at least not easily)

Non-embedded CPUs are socketed, thus fairly easily upgradeable. And yes, Apple uses embedded CPUs :(
 
Embedded = Soldered onto the motherboard = Not upgradeable (at least not easily)

Non-embedded CPUs are socketed, thus fairly easily upgradeable. And yes, Apple uses embedded CPUs :(

Hmmm, in that case, this raises questions about how the wikipedia SB lineup will fill out the MBP range, as the only two MBP-ish SB processors I can see in embedded form are 2.5GHz dual core i5's, and 2.1GHz quad core i7's.

Anyone know of a more accurate SB lineup list, or do we think Apple will get some custom orders at different clock speeds?
 
Hmmm, in that case, this raises questions about how the wikipedia SB lineup will fill out the MBP range, as the only two MBP-ish SB processors I can see in embedded form are 2.5GHz dual core i5's, and 2.1GHz quad core i7's.

Anyone know of a more accurate SB lineup list, or do we think Apple will get some custom orders at different clock speeds?

I wouldn't give too much credit to the Wikipedia article. In fact, now that I looked at the current CPUs Apple uses, there is no embedded version of Core i5-540M. Looking a bit more shows me that embedded seems to mean that it is integrated onto the motherboard so non-embedded can still be soldered onto the logic board, just like Apple is doing.

So my bad, should have read a bit more :eek: There is usually non-embedded version available too so don't worry about them too much
 
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