MacBook Pro/Air refresh schedule - Haswell release timeline

[baseten]

I'm in an Apple Store right now on a low spec 15" rMBP and Mountain Lion. I have to say the poor scrolling performance in Safari is VERY noticeable on certain sites. Facebook (as reported) and interestingly the configure Macbook Pro purchase page of the Apple store... They're not doing themselves any favours!

Retina screen is OK, not really convinced at the moment. If the next release doesn't offer much of a discrete GPU improvement then I might have to hang on to my late 2008 model for some time... I guess the only thing is that browsing these sites is maybe not switching to the 650M, so perhaps Haswell would see an improvement?

 

[artsarn]

15' mbp

Just like others, I'm looking to purchase MBP15" but I'm not looking to get retina version... Mainly with the extra 400$ I can up the spec and that would benefit me more.

However after reading the tread, I notice that no one mention the 2013 appearance change for MBP. Besides the Haswell, is there any other news about updating the looks of MBP? If it will just looks the same next year, I might just go ahead and buy the current gen. instead of waiting 4 more months. since Haswell won't improve performance that much.

Also any news on price cut or spec bump on the 15mbp model? (non-ret)

Thanks.

 

[skaertus]

Just like others, I'm looking to purchase MBP15" but I'm not looking to get retina version... Mainly with the extra 400$ I can up the spec and that would benefit me more.

However after reading the tread, I notice that no one mention the 2013 appearance change for MBP. Besides the Haswell, is there any other news about updating the looks of MBP? If it will just looks the same next year, I might just go ahead and buy the current gen. instead of waiting 4 more months. since Haswell won't improve performance that much.

Also any news on price cut or spec bump on the 15mbp model? (non-ret)

Thanks.

I don't think that's going to happen.

The non-retina MacBook Pro (both the 13 and 15-inch versions) are clearly being phased out by Apple. As such, they will probably not receive any update. The looks will certainly not be updated, as the redesign has already occurred in the form of the retina MacBook Pro. And the non-retina MacBook Pro may not even receive the Haswell processor upgrade, as Apple may choose to discontinue it in 2013.

 

[Ploki]

Just like others, I'm looking to purchase MBP15" but I'm not looking to get retina version... Mainly with the extra 400$ I can up the spec and that would benefit me more.

However after reading the tread, I notice that no one mention the 2013 appearance change for MBP. Besides the Haswell, is there any other news about updating the looks of MBP? If it will just looks the same next year, I might just go ahead and buy the current gen. instead of waiting 4 more months. since Haswell won't improve performance that much.

Also any news on price cut or spec bump on the 15mbp model? (non-ret)

Thanks.

It has been updated merely half a year ago...

cMBP is not going to even get the speed bump of Feb 2013, so forget about it. It's gone. They're not going to re-engineer the motherboard for two 15" machines...

 

[Ricanlegend]

I'm in an Apple Store right now on a low spec 15" rMBP and Mountain Lion. I have to say the poor scrolling performance in Safari is VERY noticeable on certain sites. Facebook (as reported) and interestingly the configure Macbook Pro purchase page of the Apple store... They're not doing themselves any favours!

Retina screen is OK, not really convinced at the moment. If the next release doesn't offer much of a discrete GPU improvement then I might have to hang on to my late 2008 model for some time... I guess the only thing is that browsing these sites is maybe not switching to the 650M, so perhaps Haswell would see an improvement?

Its already been said before theres a download called webkit nightly that fixes the lag its not the hardware its just software that needs an update

 

[baseten]

I know about the Webkit nightly and the Mountain Lion updates. Also the Chrome Canary build (which is more interesting as I'd use Chrome anyway), but it doesn't really mitigate the issue that IMO the 650M isn't quite powerful enough to drive this thing if they're having to work that hard to squeeze performance out it, as discussed in detail in the original thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1396188/

For now I think I'll just get an SSD for my late 2008 model. I have to say that no unit I tried was SO much faster than what I have now that it will make my day to day work life any better. It was disappointing that in the London Regent Street store there are no previous gen MBPs with hi-res anti glare screens on display, which is what I would have liked to compare with. The guy there said that all the previous gen were taken out when they refreshed the rMBP a few days ago, leaving only the low spec version which didn't help for comparison. It also looked like someone had deliberately turned the brightness down on the old model (perhaps to make the retina look better!?)

 

[Macuser4154]

I've noticed several conflicting reports about the release date of Haswell processors, so I wonder when the next Mac laptops refreshes will be. There are reports of MacBook Pros and Airs being refreshed next June, due to the Haswell release, but I am not convinced.

Haswell will be available from June 2, 2013. However, there are reports saying that the processors that will be available first are the desktop processors and the higher-voltage quad-cores. Therefore, processors for the 13-inch MacBook Pro and for the MacBook Air will not be available so soon. There are reports of ultra-low Haswell processors being released only in Q3 2013. In addition, the Haswell GT3 GPU (which will bring much better performance) would be released only in Q4 2013.

There will be new Ivy Bridge, low-voltage, processors being released meanwhile. Based on that, I guess that the timeframe for release of new Macs could be as follows:

- MacBook Air refresh in Q1 2013, with new ultra-low voltage Ivy Bridge processors.

- 15" MacBook Pro refresh in June 2013, with the new quad-core Haswell processors (the retina version being upgraded in June, but not sure if the non-retina version will be phased out).

- 13" MacBook Pro refresh in Q3 2013, or when 35W mobile Haswell becomes available.

- MacBook Air redesign in Q4 2013, when the ultra-low voltage Haswell is released. Due to the lower power requirements of Haswell, the MacBook Air could be even thinner. An IGZO display could be added, in order to provide retina resolutions and good battery life even in a thin design.

Do you think this timeline is feasible? How do you think Apple will handle the MacBook release schedule due to these delays in the release of Haswell?

I would have to disagree with most of this. Apple with probably convince Intel to give them the ULV processors for a complete macbook refresh in June. Also, there will definitely not be a retina screen on the MacBook Air. That is because that was what the retina MBP 13 inch was for. Also, so far there hasn't been a macbook air refresh with new ivy bridge processors and there probably won't be. there was a price drop, but other than that, nothing.

 

[skaertus]

For now I think I'll just get an SSD for my late 2008 model. I have to say that no unit I tried was SO much faster than what I have now that it will make my day to day work life any better. It was disappointing that in the London Regent Street store there are no previous gen MBPs with hi-res anti glare screens on display, which is what I would have liked to compare with. The guy there said that all the previous gen were taken out when they refreshed the rMBP a few days ago, leaving only the low spec version which didn't help for comparison. It also looked like someone had deliberately turned the brightness down on the old model (perhaps to make the retina look better!?)

I put an SSD in my 2008 white MacBook and it is just flying.

----------

I would have to disagree with most of this. Apple with probably convince Intel to give them the ULV processors for a complete macbook refresh in June. Also, there will definitely not be a retina screen on the MacBook Air. That is because that was what the retina MBP 13 inch was for. Also, so far there hasn't been a macbook air refresh with new ivy bridge processors and there probably won't be. there was a price drop, but other than that, nothing.

Well, I just do not know where you took this from.

Intel ULV Haswell processors may not even be released in June. And it has been a while since Apple does not get Intel processors before everybody else (Intel stopped to do this after Apple introduced the NVIDIA chipsets, which upset Intel).

As for retina displays, well, that will depend on how Haswell battery saving capabilities will turn out to be in real life. Some ultrabooks may be released with a retina-like display (Acer has already promised one), and Apple will not want to be left behind with the MacBook Air, even though the Pro already has such a screen.

 

[Aidan5806]

Will Haswell really be that big of a difference in the Airs and 13" rMBP?

In terms of battery life and integrated graphics performance, it will be like night and day.

 

[e²Studios]

In terms of battery life and integrated graphics performance, it will be like night and day.

In Intel's labs sure, in real world use dream on. Lol, haswell is a bump.

Just wait till what comes out next year, or the year after! Think about it, in 1 year or so a new CPU will have 50% more than haswell... That means if you wait 1-2 years more you'll get a 100% igpu increase and night a day battery GPU/graphics/processing/coffee maker.. I mean thats mindblowing, I'd wait a year or two more for that, its just around the corner! I can't even imagine this, technology getting better at each release... *boom* mind blown

When you buy computers they're outdated in 3-6 months, still usable and powerful, but not the latest and greatest. If it works now buy now, if you can't afford it now then just say new technology is around the corner and convince yourself to wait...

 

[Serban]

I think Apple will be the first brand to use latest intel chips...so i think in june/july will announce the upgrade, and even will take longer, they will no more say "start shipping today" but for the next month or so.

i think it is a big improvement in graphic card (Hd4600) and battery life. I think the dimensions of their macbook it's ok so they will use the same space for battery for revolutionary the stand by and usage times. I already have a deja vu of Phil saying there are no other notebook that powerful and with so much time of usage like 9 or 10h. So thats why they must be the first company to use those chips, To tell that, because after that im sure they will be many other companies using the same chips with same battery usage.

 

[Aidan5806]

In Intel's labs sure, in real world use dream on. Lol, haswell is a bump.

Just wait till what comes out next year, or the year after! Think about it, in 1 year or so a new CPU will have 50% more than haswell... That means if you wait 1-2 years more you'll get a 100% igpu increase and night a day battery GPU/graphics/processing/coffee maker.. I mean thats mindblowing, I'd wait a year or two more for that, its just around the corner! I can't even imagine this, technology getting better at each release... *boom* mind blown

When you buy computers they're outdated in 3-6 months, still usable and powerful, but not the latest and greatest. If it works now buy now, if you can't afford it now then just say new technology is around the corner and convince yourself to wait...

The Intel 5000HD held their own against a 650m running on half the power. For the Macbook air, and the 13" retina Macbook Pro that will make the world of difference. Oh and by the way that was a real world test.

 

[e²Studios]

The Intel 5000HD held their own against a 650m running on half the power. For the Macbook air, and the 13" retina Macbook Pro that will make the world of difference. Oh and by the way that was a real world test.

I think you're fooling yourself but whatever makes you sleep better at night I suppose. Prepare for disappointment I guess.

 

[dblissmn]

The Intel 5000HD held their own against a 650m running on half the power. For the Macbook air, and the 13" retina Macbook Pro that will make the world of difference. Oh and by the way that was a real world test.

We know Haswell will be a big boost for the 13" with integrated. In my dreams, it will have dual-head monitor support and support NEC LUT color calibration, and I might not need a 15. But don't get ahead of yourself on the speed test. We don't know how much RAM that computer had (perhaps the 8GB vs 16GB situation is significant here); we don't know if the test was simply playing to a specific strength of the chip, or what. And we do know that games and 3D applications continue to get more power hungry and discrete chips continue to get better too.

 

[NutsNGum]

The Intel 5000HD held their own against a 650m running on half the power. For the Macbook air, and the 13" retina Macbook Pro that will make the world of difference. Oh and by the way that was a real world test.

The next Intel GPU is the HD4600 not HD5000, and it has several variants.

The model previewed in the example you refer to was a desktop quad-core, which isn't going to compare with the ULV equivalent running at ~1.7GHz.

 

[Aidan5806]

The next Intel GPU is the HD4600 not HD5000, and it has several variants.

The model previewed in the example you refer to was a desktop quad-core, which isn't going to compare with the ULV equivalent running at ~1.7GHz.

Actually the 5000 HD (codenamed GT3) is coming one higher end Haswell chips (i5's and i7's), with the 4600 HD (codenamed GT2) being used on lower end chips.

----------

We know Haswell will be a big boost for the 13" with integrated. In my dreams, it will have dual-head monitor support and support NEC LUT color calibration, and I might not need a 15. But don't get ahead of yourself on the speed test. We don't know how much RAM that computer had (perhaps the 8GB vs 16GB situation is significant here); we don't know if the test was simply playing to a specific strength of the chip, or what. And we do know that games and 3D applications continue to get more power hungry and discrete chips continue to get better too.

Even if all of that is true the idea that any Intel Integrated graphics chip comes close to an Nvidia Discrete chip should be a point of interest.

 

[skaertus]

The USB 3.0 glitch in Haswell processors will likely delay the release of the processor in significant numbers, according to analysts. That will probably mean that Intel will stick with Ivy Bridge as its main processor until Q3 2013. I guess this issue will probably delay the release of new Macs powered by Haswell processors...

 

[jafingi]

The USB 3.0 glitch in Haswell processors will likely delay the release of the processor in significant numbers, according to analysts. That will probably mean that Intel will stick with Ivy Bridge as its main processor until Q3 2013. I guess this issue will probably delay the release of new Macs powered by Haswell processors...

According to this page, it shouldn't affect release. http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/30720-haswell-usb-30-issue-requires-hardware-fix

So far motherboard partners are saying that this bug won’t delay the planned introduction. Intel is telling them that Haswell desktop parts are still on schedule to launch in June (probably at Computex 2013).

 

[skaertus]

According to this page, it shouldn't affect release. http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/30720-haswell-usb-30-issue-requires-hardware-fix

While Intel will keep the release of Haswell in June, it is rumored to ship the processor in low volumes until a fix for the glitch is ready: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di...olumes_Because_of_USB_3_0_Issues_Analyst.html

This may, of course, affect the product release cycles. While Haswell will be released, not too many people will be able to benefit from it since the beginning.

And I am beginning to doubt that Apple will release any product based on Haswell before the USB 3.0 issues are fixed...

 

[vatter69]

And I am beginning to doubt that Apple will release any product based on Haswell before the USB 3.0 issues are fixed...

I seriously hope that Apple stops the trend and actually does something for the quality control so yea - agreed

 

[jafingi]

While Intel will keep the release of Haswell in June, it is rumored to ship the processor in low volumes until a fix for the glitch is ready: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di...olumes_Because_of_USB_3_0_Issues_Analyst.html

This may, of course, affect the product release cycles. While Haswell will be released, not too many people will be able to benefit from it since the beginning.

And I am beginning to doubt that Apple will release any product based on Haswell before the USB 3.0 issues are fixed...

The glitch is nok with the CPU, but the chipset. So it's easy for them to make a revision. The CPU has no flaws in that regarding.

 

[skaertus]

The glitch is nok with the CPU, but the chipset. So it's easy for them to make a revision. The CPU has no flaws in that regarding.

The revision is rumored to come in August. Supplies of Haswell processors will likely be restrained until then. And Apple is unlikely to launch new laptops until the glitch is fixed and supply is normal.

I am tired to wait for Haswell. First, Intel delayed it so it would be released one year after Ivy Bridge, in March 2013. Then, Intel delayed it to June to push the sluggish sales of Ivy Bridge laptops, helping it get rid of the existing inventory. And now there is this glitch, which will not delay the release of the processor, but will delay its general availability (which, in practical terms, is almost like delaying its release).

 

[superblockio]

The revision is rumored to come in August. Supplies of Haswell processors will likely be restrained until then. And Apple is unlikely to launch new laptops until the glitch is fixed and supply is normal.

I am tired to wait for Haswell. First, Intel delayed it so it would be released one year after Ivy Bridge, in March 2013. Then, Intel delayed it to June to push the sluggish sales of Ivy Bridge laptops, helping it get rid of the existing inventory. And now there is this glitch, which will not delay the release of the processor, but will delay its general availability (which, in practical terms, is almost like delaying its release).

So, the question becomes when will we get the new retina macbook pros, August, September, or October? Unless of course this USB 3 report isn't true. I'm in the market for getting a 15" retina macbook pro soon, and I really don't feel like waiting half a year for a new version that doesn't even sound like a super big improvement.

The main reason I'm even considering waiting is that there will probably be a new GPU with the update, and I am a gamer. I'll still be doing most of my gaming on my dedicated PC at home, and I want this mbp mainly for work, but I'd still like to play some Planetside 2 on the go (with reasonably good settings). So, I wonder... how big of a GPU upgrade are we talking about here? I'm not familiar with Apple's relationship with Nvidia as far as timelines and GPU models are concerned.

 

[skaertus]

So, the question becomes when will we get the new retina macbook pros, August, September, or October? Unless of course this USB 3 report isn't true. I'm in the market for getting a 15" retina macbook pro soon, and I really don't feel like waiting half a year for a new version that doesn't even sound like a super big improvement.

It is hard to know at this point, even though we are less than three months from the scheduled release of Haswell.

I am really disappointed at Intel. Should the original schedule be met, Intel should have released Haswell in January. But it was delayed time after time, and now even June seems like a "soft" release date, in which Haswell processors will be unveiled, but will be available only at small numbers.

If Apple waits for Haswell processors be available in large quantities so the supplies of Macs can be met, then it may have to wait for Intel to fix the glitch. That may be in August, September, October... Intel has not yet said when the fix will be available.

The main reason I'm even considering waiting is that there will probably be a new GPU with the update, and I am a gamer. I'll still be doing most of my gaming on my dedicated PC at home, and I want this mbp mainly for work, but I'd still like to play some Planetside 2 on the go (with reasonably good settings). So, I wonder... how big of a GPU upgrade are we talking about here? I'm not familiar with Apple's relationship with Nvidia as far as timelines and GPU models are concerned.

The Haswell upgrade will provide a better integrated GPU, but what really matters to you is the dedicated one. If Apple keeps an NVIDIA card, it will get the new familiy of GPUs, and I am not sure of the improvements it will get, although there will be some considerable performance boost from the GT 650M.

 

[dusk007]

Intel has been falling behind on its tick tock schedule for a while now. It was and still is too optimistic. Ivy Bridge should have showed much sooner too. Even Sandy Bridge was a bit behind. Arrendale was the last which at least on paper was in time.
The whole schedule seems to be falling behind by almost a full year.

But on the other hand they are still faster then all the rest of the industry. TSMC was also more ambitious and failed too often. Better Intel is a bit optimistic than less ambitious and still missing the traget. It is kind of standard in the industry to miss the roadmap or just barely make it. When they say Q1 it often means paper launch in March rather than actual launch in Jan or Feb.
That is how it has always been.

14nm is apparently still on schedule to start production in Q4/2013 which would give use Broadwell any time in 1H/2014. It wouldn't really make any economic sense to give Haswell so little time but leaving the 14nm fabs sit idle is not smart either. I doubt that 14nm will not have any problem and most likely they will take their time fixing them before they role it out too soon. I think they will end up postponing the whole thing into 2H/2014.