MacBook Pro/Air refresh schedule - Haswell release timeline

[skaertus]

While the MBA is the best computer I've owned, a new MBA with Retina display would make me swap it in a heartbeat. However, as long as we're only talking a processor bump though, I see no point in upgrading, as long as my computer is still able to run the latest software.

It is a processor bump. But the thing is, Haswell is supposed to be far more power-efficient than Ivy Bridge.

 

[HardBall]

Haswell releases in 38.625 days according to this (http://bit.ly/11Kebsp)

Maybe we will see a WWDC processor update after all

A very good chance that these are thr high power envelope (k series on desktop & 45w mobile parts) first reaching broad avail.

It has happened a lot, such as when nehalem launched, only the bloomfield was available for months. Or when mobile core-i proc launched only with clarksfield quads.

 

[Mr MM]

A very good chance that these are thr high power envelope (k series on desktop & 45w mobile parts) first reaching broad avail.

It has happened a lot, such as when nehalem launched, only the bloomfield was available for months. Or when mobile core-i proc launched only with clarksfield quads.

not necessarily, you are comparing 2 very different launch philosophies.

the best idea is ivy launch, with intel trying to concentrate most of its popular products all at once

 

[skaertus]

Now there are is a report that Ming-Chi Kuo from KGI Securities is expecting Apple to release the refreshed non-retina MacBook Pro and MacBook Air in June, during the WWDC. He also expects the retina MacBook Pro to be released later this year due to the low yield of high-resolution displays. The report is at Apple Insider http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/04/28/upgraded-macbook-models-expected-to-highlight-wwdc-2013) and MacRumors is not yet reporting it.

While Kuo has a good track record, I found this prediction to be rather strange. Why Apple should upgrade the cheaper MacBook Pro with Haswell processors and leave the retina models with Ivy Bridge?

 

[Mr MM]

Now there are is a report that Ming-Chi Kuo from KGI Securities is expecting Apple to release the refreshed non-retina MacBook Pro and MacBook Air in June, during the WWDC. He also expects the retina MacBook Pro to be released later this year due to the low yield of high-resolution displays. The report is at Apple Insider http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/04/28/upgraded-macbook-models-expected-to-highlight-wwdc-2013) and MacRumors is not yet reporting it.

While Kuo has a good track record, I found this prediction to be rather strange. Why Apple should upgrade the cheaper MacBook Pro with Haswell processors and leave the retina models with Ivy Bridge?

if that is true, he corrected himself, since the mbp was supposed to be gone this year

 

[skaertus]

if that is true, he corrected himself, since the mbp was supposed to be gone this year

I still think the non-retina MacBook Pro should be gone this year. Apple may have revised it, however, due to the apparently low sales of the retina version.

Unfortunately, Kuo is expecting that the only model that will please me - the retina MacBook Pro - is also the only one that will not be updated in June. Meh.

And now MacRumors is reporting it as well: https://www.macrumors.com/2013/04/2...t-of-wwdc-non-retina-macbook-pro-to-continue/

 

[Mr MM]

I still think the non-retina MacBook Pro should be gone this year. Apple may have revised it, however, due to the apparently low sales of the retina version.

Unfortunately, Kuo is expecting that the only model that will please me - the retina MacBook Pro - is also the only one that will not be updated in June. Meh.

And now MacRumors is reporting it as well: https://www.macrumors.com/2013/04/2...t-of-wwdc-non-retina-macbook-pro-to-continue/

I see the point in keeping the mbp 13, the 15 not so much. To kill the 13 you have to lower the price of the rmbp 13 to that point. Simple as that

I really dont buy that thing of internet with lower band, even my parents dont use CDs or dvds anymore, both are over 60

 

[thundersteele]

I still think the non-retina MacBook Pro should be gone this year. Apple may have revised it, however, due to the apparently low sales of the retina version.

Unfortunately, Kuo is expecting that the only model that will please me - the retina MacBook Pro - is also the only one that will not be updated in June. Meh.

The way I read it is that the updated models will be presented in June, but the availability of the retina models might be delayed a bit (weeks, months?, who knows...).

Anyways, once several update rumors come in that agree with each other and with Intels release timeline, it becomes very likely that the rumors are true. So we will see something new in June. I'm happy with that!

 

[kx22]

Hopefully they make a new Pro design, we are already using this design for more then 5 years! Give me a reason to spend my money!

 

[skaertus]

The way I read it is that the updated models will be presented in June, but the availability of the retina models might be delayed a bit (weeks, months?, who knows...).

Anyways, once several update rumors come in that agree with each other and with Intels release timeline, it becomes very likely that the rumors are true. So we will see something new in June. I'm happy with that!

It may be as well...

However, I'm not entirely convinced that Apple will release something in June. Here's why:

MBA: I've seen reports that the ULV Haswell processors will only be released in Q3 2013.
MBP: Apple may choose not to update it, or even to discontinue it.
13" rMBP: I've seen reports that the 35W dual-core Haswell processors will only be released in Q4 2013.
15" rMBP: The processor will be released in time for WWDC, but how's Apple going to handle the USB 3.0 glitch?

----------

Hopefully they make a new Pro design, we are already using this design for more then 5 years! Give me a reason to spend my money!

There's already a new Pro design. And it's called the MacBook Pro with Retina Display.

Like it or not, the cMBP is a legacy product. It may even be updated to the latest Haswell processors, but it won't be redesigned. Apple will not launch a brand-new MBP with an optical driver, Ethernet port and user-replaceable parts. These are things of the past, and the cMBP is a legacy product now. It's on its way to being discontinued, and totally replaced with the rMBP, which is the new Pro design you mentioned.

----------

I see the point in keeping the mbp 13, the 15 not so much. To kill the 13 you have to lower the price of the rmbp 13 to that point. Simple as that

I really dont buy that thing of internet with lower band, even my parents dont use CDs or dvds anymore, both are over 60

Agree. But Apple doesn't have to lower the price of the 13-inch rMBP even further. The MBA may take this spot, and the 13-inch MBP may keep its premium.

 

[jafingi]

15" rMBP: The processor will be released in time for WWDC, but how's Apple going to handle the USB 3.0 glitch?

If they use another USB controller, it wouldn't be a problem (even with the "buggy" C1 stepping chip). OR they will maybe have the C2 in time.

Even if they had the buggy chipset, I would personally buy. Never use USB anyways. Only sometimes a pendrive. And the sleep bug would be unnoticeable with that.

 

[thundersteele]

It may be as well...

However, I'm not entirely convinced that Apple will release something in June. Here's why:

MBA: I've seen reports that the ULV Haswell processors will only be released in Q3 2013.
MBP: Apple may choose not to update it, or even to discontinue it.
13" rMBP: I've seen reports that the 35W dual-core Haswell processors will only be released in Q4 2013.
15" rMBP: The processor will be released in time for WWDC, but how's Apple going to handle the USB 3.0 glitch?

Well, one can never be sure. The USB glitch doesn't seem to prevent Intel from shipping the CPUs. It also only affects a very small set of peripherals. Apple had no problems shipping defective but functional hardware in the past (8600 GT, Sandy Bridge SATA flaw, etc).
Concerning the MBP, the report on the front page makes a good point: If customer demand for the MBP is still large, it wouldn't make sense to discontinue it. While the smartphone & tablet market is putting pressure on the margins, Macbooks, as premium laptops, have very solid margins, so you don't want to loose any sales there.

 

[Mr MM]

Agree. But Apple doesn't have to lower the price of the 13-inch rMBP even further. The MBA may take this spot, and the 13-inch MBP may keep its premium.

not necessarily, while they may be trying to insert the mba as the general computing machine, I do think it would benefit a price reduction in the rmbp 13, you can clearly see from the price that the resellers are using, its quite lower than what apple offers.

And lets face it, brazil needs a desperate price drop

Well, one can never be sure. The USB glitch doesn't seem to prevent Intel from shipping the CPUs. It also only affects a very small set of peripherals. Apple had no problems shipping defective but functional hardware in the past (8600 GT, Sandy Bridge SATA flaw, etc).
Concerning the MBP, the report on the front page makes a good point: If customer demand for the MBP is still large, it wouldn't make sense to discontinue it. While the smartphone & tablet market is putting pressure on the margins, Macbooks, as premium laptops, have very solid margins, so you don't want to loose any sales there.

exactly I was one of the affected by the SB sata bug, had to change my mobo after I got lucky and things started to fail (1st usb than sata said goog bye)

 

[skaertus]

Well, one can never be sure. The USB glitch doesn't seem to prevent Intel from shipping the CPUs. It also only affects a very small set of peripherals. Apple had no problems shipping defective but functional hardware in the past (8600 GT, Sandy Bridge SATA flaw, etc).
Concerning the MBP, the report on the front page makes a good point: If customer demand for the MBP is still large, it wouldn't make sense to discontinue it. While the smartphone & tablet market is putting pressure on the margins, Macbooks, as premium laptops, have very solid margins, so you don't want to loose any sales there.

Apple discontinued the white MacBook even customer demand being large.

The fact is that there always seems to be demand for the cheapest product. People don't necessarily want the 13-inch cMBP, but they buy it because it's the cheapest option apart from the 11-inch Air.

----------

not necessarily, while they may be trying to insert the mba as the general computing machine, I do think it would benefit a price reduction in the rmbp 13, you can clearly see from the price that the resellers are using, its quite lower than what apple offers.

Indeed. The 13-inch rMPB doesn't seem to have been widely accepted by the public.

And lets face it, brazil needs a desperate price drop

That's for sure. But then, again, it's not Apple's fault that the prices are sky-high here in Brazil. In fact, Apple's prices here are very competitive (have you seen the prices Asus has just announced for its line of supposed new laptops?).

 

[Mr MM]

Indeed. The 13-inch rMPB doesn't seem to have been widely accepted by the public.

That's for sure. But then, again, it's not Apple's fault that the prices are sky-high here in Brazil. In fact, Apple's prices here are very competitive (have you seen the prices Asus has just announced for its line of supposed new laptops?).

I non stop hear comments on how the rmbp 13 is competing with some other models as the worst price per performance ratio, for me its simple they need to start using HDDs and drop the price, this will stop the ideas of:

I get much less storage than the regular model

I can do some form of upgrades, customers actually like to customize things, aftermarket not so much is understatement

With that drop, you can get the rmbp aside other measures of cost saving in production that come with time, to the mbp 13 levels this were it should be, but if they keep with that shenanigans of keeping the mbp line, this will be very damaging to the rmbp 13, not so much to the 15

I dont follow asus so much in brazil, their notebooks come with so much problems right now, specially the zenbook line, that I dont even venture to think of them as an option. The acer aspirce S7 though is one that Im getting a closer look at how it will fare this year and the next

 

[Exana]

If you read what Kup says, it's just an interpretation of what Digtimes have posted a few days ago by announcing that Apple will pass new orders mid May. Apple will not release a MacBook with a CPU Intel haven't yet announced.

 

[aooga12]

so the question remains will we be able to buy a haswell mba this summer?

 

[skaertus]

I non stop hear comments on how the rmbp 13 is competing with some other models as the worst price per performance ratio, for me its simple they need to start using HDDs and drop the price, this will stop the ideas of:

I get much less storage than the regular model

I can do some form of upgrades, customers actually like to customize things, aftermarket not so much is understatement

With that drop, you can get the rmbp aside other measures of cost saving in production that come with time, to the mbp 13 levels this were it should be, but if they keep with that shenanigans of keeping the mbp line, this will be very damaging to the rmbp 13, not so much to the 15

Oh, Apple, please, don't put HDDs in the rMBP! Stick with SSDs and get rid of those slow mechanic HDDs forever!

In other words, and being more of a rational person, as much as I understand that SSDs increase the prices, I don't think Apple should adopt HDDs in the rMBP line, as they are very slow. Actually, I don't even know if Apple can do that, because SSDs in the rMBP takes less space than an HDD would.

I dont follow asus so much in brazil, their notebooks come with so much problems right now, specially the zenbook line, that I dont even venture to think of them as an option. The acer aspirce S7 though is one that Im getting a closer look at how it will fare this year and the next

Well, here in Brazil prices of decent 12 to 14-inch ultrabooks/ultraportables are as follows:

Asus Zenbook Prime UX31A Touch, with a Core i7 1.9 GHz, 4 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD: US$ 1,300 in the U.S., R$ 7,000 (about US$ 3,500) here in Brazil;

Acer Aspire S7, with a Core i5 1.7 GHz, 4 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD: US$ 1,300 in the U.S., R$ 6,400 (about US$ 3,200) here in Brazil;

Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga, with Core i5 1.7 GHz, 4 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD: US$ 1,000 in the U.S.; R$ 6,000 (about US$ 3,000) here in Brazil;

Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon, with Core i7 2 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD: US$ 1,625 in the US; R$ 8,160 (about US$ 4,080) here in Brazil;

Dell XPS 12, with Core i5 1.7 GHz, 4 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD: US$ 1,100 in the US; R$ 5,000 (about US$ 2,500) here in Brazil;

Dell XPS 13 Full HD, with Core i5 1.7 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD: US$ 1,400 in the US; R$ 5,500 (about US$ 2,750) here in Brazil;

Apple MacBook Air, base model: US$ 1,200 in the US; R$ 5,000 (about US$ 2,500) here in Brazil;

Apple MacBook Pro with retina display, base model: US$ 1,500 in the US; R$ 6,000 (about US$ 3,000) here in Brazil.

Just look at those prices. No premium ultrabook is cheaper than the Air. And several of them are more expensive than the rMBP, despite being much cheaper than it in the U.S. Now tell me Apple is expensive here in Brazil...

By the way, have you seen the Acer Aspire S7? I've seen it and I'm not impressed. It's beautiful, that's for sure. But that's about it as well. The IPS display is not so bright as the ones found in other laptops. The keyboard seems flat, and lacks key travel and tactile feedback. The battery is poor according to most reviews. And it looks (and probably is) very fragile.

 

[Mr MM]

you actually can on the rmbp 13, thats why I specifically said that model. check ifixit

You know Im rational above all, thus the HDD. For me it would serve as a new external storage being replaced immediately by my m500 480gb

I didnt even know the prices were that bad, I knew the yoga was extremely beyond reason expensive, but thats new.

From my perspective there is no reasonable argument here for those prices, I dont know if SSDs are getting the hammer like gpus do, probably yes. Still even if I pay the import tax I can buy 2 of each usually. thats beyond silly they are going for gargantuan profits now.

 

[skaertus]

I didnt even know the prices were that bad, I knew the yoga was extremely beyond reason expensive, but thats new.

Launch price of the Yoga was R$ 9,000 (US$ 4,500) back in November, almost the price of the 15-inch rMBP (which sells for R$ 10,000 - US$ 5,000). That's beyond reason!

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/tec/11...ablet-mas-preco-no-brasil-e-alto-demais.shtml

http://www.tecmundo.com.br/lenovo/31839-ideapad-yoga-13-chega-ao-brasil-em-novembro-por-r-9-mil.htm

 

[Mr MM]

Launch price of the Yoga was R$ 9,000 (US$ 4,500) back in November, almost the price of the 15-inch rMBP (which sells for R$ 10,000 - US$ 5,000). That's beyond reason!

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/tec/11...ablet-mas-preco-no-brasil-e-alto-demais.shtml

http://www.tecmundo.com.br/lenovo/31839-ideapad-yoga-13-chega-ao-brasil-em-novembro-por-r-9-mil.htm

you know the worst thing? I can order any product from provantage and deliver here in brazil, I cant do that with an apple product at all.

I can get the Yoga cheap by brazilian standards, for example the silver model (though I really like the orange one), with 4gb, 128gb and i5 3227 is going to be [973.28 + 87.85 (shipping) + 35 (bank transfer) ] * 1.60 (import taxes) = 1852.46, very expensive, but still cheaper than buying here, I wanted to make a model to model comparison, but provantage unfortunately only carries this one, I didnt check BH though

 

[skaertus]

you know the worst thing? I can order any product from provantage and deliver here in brazil, I cant do that with an apple product at all.

I can get the Yoga cheap by brazilian standards, for example the silver model (though I really like the orange one), with 4gb, 128gb and i5 3227 is going to be [973.28 + 87.85 (shipping) + 35 (bank transfer) ] * 1.60 (import taxes) = 1852.46, very expensive, but still cheaper than buying here, I wanted to make a model to model comparison, but provantage unfortunately only carries this one, I didnt check BH though

BH Photo Video doesn't ship Macs to Brazil.

The Lenovo Yoga, base model (with i5 1.8 GHz, 4 GB RAM and 128 GB SSD) will be as follows:

Price: US$ 989.99
Shipping: US$ 121.00
Duties and tax: US$ 1,103.20
Total: US$ 2,214.19

Even after you apply the additional 6% tax for the exchange rate, it's still US$ 2,347.04, cheaper than the price charged at Brazilian stores. But still very expensive. The taxes are worth more than the product itself...

 

[Mr MM]

BH Photo Video doesn't ship Macs to Brazil.

The Lenovo Yoga, base model (with i5 1.8 GHz, 4 GB RAM and 128 GB SSD) will be as follows:

Price: US$ 989.99
Shipping: US$ 121.00
Duties and tax: US$ 1,103.20
Total: US$ 2,214.19

Even after you apply the additional 6% tax for the exchange rate, it's still US$ 2,347.04, cheaper than the price charged at Brazilian stores. But still very expensive. The taxes are worth more than the product itself...

no shops ship apple products to brazil, I was talking about the yoga. I think there is one that does, cant remember the name, but they already charge a premium on their products

and what percentage are you using for the import taxes?

http://www.receita.fazenda.gov.br/aduana/rts.htm

this is what you should use, are you using [(good + transport) * 60% of import] * ICMS + [(good + transport) * 60% of import] * IPI?

http://www.correios.com.br/Produtosaz/complementos/pdf/limites_de_importacao.pdf

 

[skaertus]

no shops ship apple products to brazil, I was talking about the yoga. I think there is one that does, cant remember the name, but they already charge a premium on their products

and what percentage are you using for the import taxes?

http://www.receita.fazenda.gov.br/aduana/rts.htm

this is what you should use, are you using [(good + transport) * 60% of import] * ICMS + [(good + transport) * 60% of import] * IPI?

http://www.correios.com.br/Produtosaz/complementos/pdf/limites_de_importacao.pdf

Actually, BH Photo Video does ship products to Brazil, and the costs were calculated by the website itself. Take a look at their website, and choose shipping to Brazil as an option.

You are theoretically right in respect to the calculation of the taxes. However, I guess the calculation is a bit more complicated than that. Note that the ICMS is 18% for the state of São Paulo, but it is calculated over the total amount after the incurrence of ICMS, and not over the original price of the goods. So, in fact, the ICMS would be of over 20% of the original price of the goods plus shipping, and not only 18%.

In addition, there are other costs which you are not considering, related to "customs clearance", in order for the products actually be released after the payment of taxes without any further difficulties.

 

[Mr MM]

Actually, BH Photo Video does ship products to Brazil, and the costs were calculated by the website itself. Take a look at their website, and choose shipping to Brazil as an option.

You are theoretically right in respect to the calculation of the taxes. However, I guess the calculation is a bit more complicated than that. Note that the ICMS is 18% for the state of São Paulo, but it is calculated over the total amount after the incurrence of ICMS, and not over the original price of the goods. So, in fact, the ICMS would be of over 20% of the original price of the goods plus shipping, and not only 18%.

In addition, there are other costs which you are not considering, related to "customs clearance", in order for the products actually be released after the payment of taxes without any further difficulties.

BH ships to brazil, they dont ship apple products

AFAIK ICMS is going to be calculated on the cost of the goods + shipping + import taxes, AFAIK the surcharge for the currency exchange is post ICMS, and we dont apparently pay IPI anymore according to some legal sources that I consulted, in a 2012 from the TRF3 it was granted that no matter what we should pay ICMS over imported goods

and the charge for the correios to do the clearance is R$150

this is the important bit

- alíquota de 60% de Imposto de
Importação Simplificado + ICMS,
conforme o Estado de destino da
mercadoria + taxa de despacho aduaneiro
da ECT R$ 150,00.