Macbook pro late 2011 not starting after GPU failure...

[Nessdufrat]

I don’t know about Swiss laws. I know at least in France all people with the 2011 MBP and the GPU problem who could prove it have been able to get a new computer. The thread is 99 pages long.
The Apple Hardware Test doesn’t test the Radeon GPU, there’s a special test for that and it’s probably only with that one that the GPU failure can be attested.
Apple System Diagnostic (the test they do at the Genius Bar), which is not the Apple hardware test and which is probably the one on github (but I can’t say for sure. Mine runs in EFI mode and there’s a special way to put in on the USB to make it run. It was rather complicated and it’s not like the AHT, which is accessible when you press D at start up) also test everything but not the Radeon. But the good thing it does is actually say all the components are fine.
Which means all the components it tested are working.
And remember it tested everything BUT the Radeon GPU.
I went that way in my letter to Apple. Giving them a screenshot of the ASD with all the green « passed » and also a screenshot mid test with a bust screen all messed up with stripes.
Anyway, I’ll probably need a diagnostic from a certified center.

which doesn’t matter now because that d*mn letter is now lost somewhere between France and Ireland and the tracking number is returning an error!

 

[quaccOS]

I don’t know about Swiss laws. I know at least in France all people with the 2011 MBP and the GPU problem who could prove it have been able to get a new computer. The thread is 99 pages long.
The Apple Hardware Test doesn’t test the Radeon GPU, there’s a special test for that and it’s probably only with that one that the GPU failure can be attested.
Apple System Diagnostic (the test they do at the Genius Bar), which is not the Apple hardware test and which is probably the one on github (but I can’t say for sure. Mine runs in EFI mode and there’s a special way to put in on the USB to make it run. It was rather complicated and it’s not like the AHT, which is accessible when you press D at start up) also test everything but not the Radeon. But the good thing it does is actually say all the components are fine.
Which means all the components it tested are working.
And remember it tested everything BUT the Radeon GPU.
I went that way in my letter to Apple. Giving them a screenshot of the ASD with all the green « passed » and also a screenshot mid test with a bust screen all messed up with stripes.
Anyway, I’ll probably need a diagnostic from a certified center.

which doesn’t matter now because that d*mn letter is now lost somewhere between France and Ireland and the tracking number is returning an error!

Oh, you are French, not French-speaking Swiss, donc ton copain est suisse, mais tu habites près de la frontière… je l'ai peut-être lu trop vite.
La loi française semble beaucoup plus claire, et comprend même des détails sur les vices cachés (hidden defects):
I have never heard this mentioned outside of France. I remember the French government sued Apple for slowing down older iPhones – so I guess they don't take sh*t from Apple. They even fined Apple €1.1 billion for anti-competitive acts recently!

It passed the AHT with an EFI boot from USB too! (D or Option-D would not work for me, it has something to do with the SSD being installed, it won't run. I just get an error code immediately)
But I think the Apple Genius Bar only has the useless ASD test.
I will be asking about an Advanced dGPU test, specifically for the dedicated/discrete graphics chip.
Unfortunately, there are no clear laws in Ireland regarding hidden defects – we are only informed about non-conforming goods, and our 6 year expiry of our consumer rights. In France however, you have a very good chance

You're probably going to need that Apple-certified diagnosis of the GPU, and you may need to resend the letter if it gets lost in transit.
I'm sure you read all this…

https://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/docs/France_Statutory_Warranty.pdf

• Garantie contre les vices cachés
Conformément aux dispositions de la garantie légale contre les vices cachés, un acheteur peut demander au vendeur de répondre des vices cachés d'un produit dans les 2 ans de la découverte du vice.

• Qu'est-ce qu'un vice caché?
Le vendeur d'un produit peut être tenu responsable lorsqu'un défaut qui n'est pas visible (c'est à dire n'est pas susceptible d'être découvert par une inspection raisonnable de l'acheteur) rend le produit impropre à l'usage attendu du produit ou diminue tellement son utilité que l'acheteur s'il avait connu le vice, n'aurait pas acquis le produit ou ne l'aurait pas acquis au prix d'achat.

– Dans le cas où un acheteur s'aperçoit qu'un produit acheté en ligne sur Apple Store ou dans un Magasin Apple a un défaut de conformité (pour les seuls consommateurs) ou un vice caché, il/elle peut contacter le centre d'appels d'Apple au numéro de téléphone indiqué ci-dessous.
Le centre d'appels d'Apple assistera l'acheteur en vérifiant que les conditions prévues par la législation sur la garantie légale sont réunies. Si le problème ne peut être résolu par téléphone……ah ouais ouais ouais:

• Pour les produits non-conformes, le consommateur sera en droit d'obtenir d'Apple la réparation ou le remplacement sans frais du produit non-conforme, à moins que le choix demandé ne soit objectivement impossible ou constitue un coût manifestement disproportionné au regard d'autres modalités, compte tenu de la valeur du produit, de la nature du défaut de conformité et de la possibilité de mettre en œuvre des solutions alternatives sans inconvénient majeur pour le consommateur.
Dans le cas où la réparation ou le remplacement du produit serait impossible, ne constitue un coût manifestement disproportionné, n'entraîne un délai déraisonnable ou n'occasionne des inconvénients majeurs pour le consommateur, ce dernier aura le droit d'obtenir en échange du produit un remboursement total ou partiel.
• Pour les produit ayant un vice caché, l'acheteur sera en droit d'obtenir d'Apple le retour du produit contre remboursement du prix d'achat, ou le remboursement d'une partie du prix si l'acheteur souhaite garder le produit.
Note: les solutions décrites ci-dessus s'appliquent uniquement aux produits achetés en ligne sur Apple Store or dans un Magasin Apple par un acheteur en
–––
• Que faire dans le cas où un produit acheté auprès d'un Revendeur Agréé Apple présente un défaut de conformité?
…Pour les produits avec un vice caché:
Dans le cas où l'examen établit que le produit a un vice caché (c'est à dire, que les conditions prévues par la législation sur la garantie légale sont réunies), l'acheteur sera informé des options qui s'offrent à lui, à savoir le remboursement du prix d'achat en échange du retour du produit ou la réparation ou le remplacement du produit.
Si l'acheteur décide de demander la réparation ou le remplacement du produit, la section précédente sur les produits non-conformes s'appliquera.
Lorsqu’un acheteur requiert le support technique d’Apple pour un produit qui n’a ni défaut de conformité ni vice caché, Apple informera le consommateur du coût du support technique qui sera entièrement à la charge de l'acheteur.
Numéro du centre d'appels d'Apple :
Métropole : (33) 0805 540 003 | DOM-TOM : (33) 0825 77 00 35*
* Des frais téléphoniques sont applicables pour les appels locaux et nationaux.
Coordonées d'Apple:
Apple Customer Support
Apple Distribution International
Hollyhill Industrial Estate
Hollyhill, Cork
Republic of Ireland

My question after reading this is: Is the problem a hidden defect or is it a lack of conformity? I think it is more of a hidden defect, the product did conform – just not for long enough.
I think vice caché is definitely the correct word.
You can post a link to thread if you can still find it, I understand most French (we are supposed to have learnt French in school to the CEFR level of B2, which is probably low intermediate)

Edit: I can't get it to boot anymore, I will have to try more heat again. I need to install macOS High Sierra and sign-in…
I was last signed in on Mojave 10.14.6 which is unsupported, I have to fix that.
In Ireland, we only have authorised resellers & service providers – no Apple Store in Ireland (except 1 in Belfast, Northern Ireland – also closed).
But they have more discretion – so they said they would accept delivery of the laptop, but won't do anything because it is vintage and nearly-obsolete:

https://support.apple.com/fr-fr/HT201624

 

[Nessdufrat]

Yes, the correct term in French is indeed "vice caché" which I translated to hidden defect.
The link to the thread is here : https://forums.macg.co/threads/repa...ook-pro-15-2011.1237612/page-89#post-13713745

(you have to go through a bunch of pages to see people start to get results. The last twenty pages are very informative)

I got mine to boot by starting it and leaving it running for three hours, then restarting it, doing to CMS reset, and restarting it again. Of course it didn't do very much since I replace my SSD with an empty HD. But still, I got the chime (and a question mark).
I'm pretty sure the Apple Store in Lyon won't touch my computer either because it's vintage, but maybe the authorized service providers might.
Thing is, I can't go there because I'm not allowed to travel more than 100km even when lockdown is lifted (that in a few days now, finally!!!) and it's outside the range.
And in Switzerland, they won't touch the computer. Period.

And yeah, I'm French. And Swiss. I have both citizenships. But because I live in France and I have a stupid car with Swiss plates (it's borrowed, normally it's not an issue, right now it's a huge issue), I can't cross the border.

Today I finally got the documents I asked for from Apple. I told them I needed all the conversations I had with Apple care about my MBP from the moment I had the issue. I had hoped there was something in my file from my visit to the apple store, when they actually noticed that there was indeed a GPU problem but didn't care. Normally, since there was an appointment and a visit, I expected them to put a note in the file.
They didn't.
I only have a note saying I'm getting an appointment because of some hardware problem and unexpected restarts. There's nothing else. And also I have the conversation from the hidden defect case.
I can copy it here, it might be informative.
Please note that it's internal Apple employee talk and part of it has already been redacted by them. I'll delete the employees' first names for privacy reasons.

History Collapse All
Sort By: Oldest on Top Newest on Top
MONDAY 2017-08-28
Incoming (Call) 2017-08-28 12:44 AM
S V, T2 Technical Support
mac is unresponsive hardware issue take an appointment in ARS friday 1 september at 12.45h
bug in mac
Affected Product: OBS,MacBook Pro (17-inch, Late 2011)
Issue: Boots to beep / chirp, Hard Drive / SSD
Additional Case Contact [redacted] [redacted] [redacted]
macOS Version Unknown
Resolution Hardware repair needed
Hardware Repair Option Referred Customer to Apple Retail Store

Incoming (Call) 2020-04-16 5:25 AM
C S, T1 Technical Support
unexpected restart, vertical lines and next dont power on, when let some days, Mac restart for few moments cst know that has hidden defect of graphic card in forums
refer hidden defect
Affected Product: Non-technical Issue
Additional Case Contact [redacted] [redacted]
Reason Reroute Secondary
Reason Other Apple Support group
Sent From C S - T1 Technical Support
Case Created (IVR) 2020-04-16 5:06 AM
Customer CUSTOMER: [redacted]
PRODUCT: MacBook Pro *
Customer * IVR Case (fr_FR) *

Incoming (Consult) (Call) 2020-04-16 5:35 AM
J J, T2 Technical Support
I take the call refer hidden defect
Affected Product: Non-technical Issue
Additional Case Contact [redacted] [redacted]
Answer(s) Given I take the call
Escalated to EMEA French CPU Tier 2

Incoming 2020-04-16 5:47 AM
J J, T2 Technical Support
Following [redacted],
I send to cst the template refer hidden defect
Affected Product: Non-technical Issue
Additional Case Contact [redacted] [redacted]
Reason Reroute Secondary
Reason Other Apple Support group
Resolution Referred Customer
Referred To Other Apple Department

 

[quaccOS]

Yes, the correct term in French is indeed "vice caché" which I translated to hidden defect.
The link to the thread is here : https://forums.macg.co/threads/repa...ook-pro-15-2011.1237612/page-89#post-13713745

(you have to go through a bunch of pages to see people start to get results. The last twenty pages are very informative)

I got mine to boot by starting it and leaving it running for three hours, then restarting it, doing to CMS reset, and restarting it again. Of course it didn't do very much since I replace my SSD with an empty HD. But still, I got the chime (and a question mark).
I'm pretty sure the Apple Store in Lyon won't touch my computer either because it's vintage, but maybe the authorized service providers might.
Thing is, I can't go there because I'm not allowed to travel more than 100km even when lockdown is lifted (that in a few days now, finally!!!) and it's outside the range.
And in Switzerland, they won't touch the computer. Period.

And yeah, I'm French. And Swiss. I have both citizenships. But because I live in France and I have a stupid car with Swiss plates (it's borrowed, normally it's not an issue, right now it's a huge issue), I can't cross the border.

Today I finally got the documents I asked for from Apple. I told them I needed all the conversations I had with Apple care about my MBP from the moment I had the issue. I had hoped there was something in my file from my visit to the apple store, when they actually noticed that there was indeed a GPU problem but didn't care. Normally, since there was an appointment and a visit, I expected them to put a note in the file.
They didn't.
I only have a note saying I'm getting an appointment because of some hardware problem and unexpected restarts. There's nothing else. And also I have the conversation from the hidden defect case.
I can copy it here, it might be informative.
Please note that it's internal Apple employee talk and part of it has already been redacted by them. I'll delete the employees' first names for privacy reasons.

Edit:
I posted my letter of complaint to Cork yesterday and it reached Apple's HQ today.

I'm aware my Irish consumer rights have expired after 6 years, and that Ireland doesn't maintain a hidden defect clause in their law 🇮🇪. It's at the discretion of each EU 🇪🇺 member state to modify & maintain consumer law beyond the standard 2 year EU guarantee – and France is the only country to maintain a law on les vices cachés 🇫🇷.

https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu...N/REPORT-_GUARANTEE/garanties_update_2019.pdf

Hopefully, I will receive some response from the complaints department. The actual Customer Support does not want to talk about the Mac's dGPU issue…they always disconnect my call.

Edit: A member of the  Apple Customer Relations Administration Team in Cork is calling me soon to discuss my letter

 

[Nessdufrat]

Hey, guys, a miracle has happened, after 28 days, my signed-for letter finally reached Apple’s headquarters in Cork. Lol.
Now all I need to do is sit tight for 2 months and wait for something to happen.
In the meantime I’m considering buying a cheap 13" 2011 or 2012 mbp to fit my two drives in and be able to work on my stuff.

 

[Nessdufrat]

Hey, guys, big news. Apple supervisor emailed me yesterday evening saying she needed to know when I’d be available for a phone call to discuss my case.
She’s gonna call me on Monday (normally).
I just bought a 15" MBP 2012 i7, ahahah. Anyway, even if I get the new computer, it won’t be before a few months and I need to be able to work on my stuff. The 15" is a nice one, I got a good price and I can sell it with both my ssd and HD inside if I get the new computer. Only disappointment, I thought I could use the 16Go ram I had in my 2011 with it and turns out it’s not the same ram... depending on the Monday phone call, I might get some ram on eBay.

I’ll keep you posted about Monday!

 

[Peter.Mav]

Hello everyone,

Long time reader/lurker first time poster

Yea so I have the MacBook Pro 2011 and with the same issue.
But there is a fix for it where you can turn off the AMD GPU and let the Intel GPU do its thing.
The below worked for me and typing this on my faithful MacBook Pro 2011 macOS High Sierra 10.13.6


- Shutdown MacBook
- Boot machine and press Command + S the system will boot and show you a command window (let the keys go)
- Depending how the MacBook is setup, it will go to the login screen where you enter your password
- At the command line type in
nvram fa4ce28d-b62f-4c99-9cc3-6815686e30f9:gpu-power-prefs=%01%00%00%00
- Hit enter
- Type reboot and hit enter

Depending on your machine you may not need to do the below
- Immediately after running the reboot command, hold down Command + R (if you're running OS X 10.11 or later) to boot into Recovery Mode
- Once booted in Recovery Mode, open Terminal, and run the following command: csrutil disable
- Reboot the system.

For a full set of instructions you can find it here

P

 

[Nessdufrat]

So, no luck for me here
Apparently the first owner photoshopped his invoice (to remove his name but also he pasted two invoices together or something). The serial number and informations matches, but Apple can’t deal with falsified invoices (no kidding...) in legal matters.
I already tried contacting the guy and no answer.
Also, the lady told me I’m the fourth owner of that computer. I bought the computer eight months after the original sale date. No shady business here.

moreover, my pictures for the diagnostic show a date in august 2017. According to the law, I had 2 years to report the problem (I had no clue about that, otherwise I wouldn’t have sent the pictures... or at least I would have erased the date. It wouldn’t have changed anything about the invoice, though). It’s now too late.

She was very sorry but like she said, she has no legal ground to give me a replacement, it would simply be the equivalent of giving me a commercial gesture of 3000€.

So that’s the end of the road for me...

I asked her about other countries, and she said the hidden defect program is valid in France and in Luxembourg.
As far as she knows, it’s not valid in other countries, contrary as what was said at first by other people on the French forum.
But consumer rights are different in each country so she said it’s always worth a try in the other countries.

 

[quaccOS]

I asked her about other countries, and she said the hidden defect program is valid in France and in Luxembourg.
As far as she knows, it’s not valid in other countries, contrary as what was said at first by other people on the French forum.

I just received a call from a Customer Relations Admin. They received my letter in Cork with the photocopies of receipts & repair history attached.

Unfortunately, there is nothing they can do once my Irish consumer law rights expired after 6 years from the date of delivery (6 January 2012 → 2018). It's up to each EU member state to maintain the hidden defect "vice caché" clause in their national consumer law – and France is the only country to do this, according to the Apple Admin. He said he'd pass on my feedback to the contract managers of Apple Premium Resellers to review. I bought my Mac from CompuB, so I would've had to claim from the point of sale (PoS) anyway.

He also said that if it was within the 6-year period, he would've offered a replacement since there probably would've been a shortage of parts anyway. He actually pitied me more than anything, and repeatedly thanked me for taking the time to write to Apple and offer them valuable feedback…

He also told me to only buy directly from Apple to avoid problems and to always be wary around the 5 year mark, as service providers aren't obliged to offer service – and after 7 years they never touch it under any circumstances, as stated on their page on vintage & obsolete products.

I asked him to send me an email to finalise the case:

Subject: Your Apple case ID XXXXXXXXXXXX
From: emea_cr_correspondence_admin@apple.com (EMEA CR = Europe, Middle East, Africa Customer Relations)

Dear _______,

Thank you for your recent correspondence to Apple. We understand that you need support for your MacBook Pro.

Apple and Apple Authorized Service Providers don't offer hardware service or parts for products that were discontinued five or more years ago, including the MacBook Pro.

For help troubleshooting your product, you can search the Apple support website: www.apple.com/support

You can also visit the Apple Support Communities to see posts from other users and to post your own questions: discussions.apple.com We hope these resources help.

We sincerely hope this situation doesn't diminish your enjoyment of our products and services in the future. We documented your concern in case number XXXXXXXXXXXX.

Sincerely,

_____ [A member of Apple's EMEA Customer Relations Administration Team]
Apple Distribution International Ltd
Registered Address: Hollyhill Industrial Estate, Hollyhill, Cork, Ireland
Registered in Ireland with No.: 470672
Directors: Cathy Kearney, Michael O’Sullivan & Peter Denwood (UK)

In Ireland, my 6 years have expired.
If this was France, my standard 2 years would be expired – but the hidden defect clause in the French Civil Code would allow me to claim since I discovered the defect less 2 years ago, and I have all the original documents.
All I would need is an Apple diagnosis.

Duration of EU Legal Guarantee​

• 2 years in the majority of EU-countries (Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia and Spain) as well as in Iceland and Norway,
• 3 years in Sweden,
• 5 years in Iceland and Norway for goods with a longer expected lifespan,
• 6 years in Ireland.
• United Kingdom has two different limitation periods: 6 years in England, Wales and
Northern Ireland, 5 years in Scotland.
• In the Netherlands and Finland, the duration is based on the expected lifespan of the item.
Source: ECC's Report on legal guarantees & commercial warranties on consumer goods in the EU, Iceland & Norway

But there is a fix for it where you can turn off the AMD GPU and let the Intel GPU do its thing.
The below worked for me and typing this on my faithful MacBook Pro 2011 macOS High Sierra 10.13.6

- Shutdown MacBook
- Boot machine and press Command + S the system will boot and show you a command window (let the keys go)
- Depending how the MacBook is setup, it will go to the login screen where you enter your password
- At the command line type in
nvram fa4ce28d-b62f-4c99-9cc3-6815686e30f9:gpu-power-prefs=%01%00%00%00
- Hit enter
- Type reboot and hit enter

Depending on your machine you may not need to do the below
- Immediately after running the reboot command, hold down Command + R (if you're running OS X 10.11 or later) to boot into Recovery Mode
- Once booted in Recovery Mode, open Terminal, and run the following command: csrutil disable
- Reboot the system.

For a full set of instructions you can find it here

My MacBook Pro (17 inch, Late-2011) will not boot. When I press the power button, the sleep indicator light flashes and the fan spins for a split-second…kinda like a car failing to start. When I apply heat and try again, it makes more of an aggressive revving sound – it's toast. A fried AMDlette

What you said does work however. I recommend it to those who can boot up.

 

[Nessdufrat]

It’s the same for me with the Mac not booting. I left it for three hours with the fans spinning. Then I turned it off. Then I did a reset SMC. It booted. Try that.
I’m going to try it later, I’m still hesitating since I need my ssd for my new old mbp 2012 that I’m receiving on Wednesday, I’m considering cloning the disk with CCC on a simple HD and putting that HD inside to test it.
I’ll keep you posted if that work.
I’m gutted. I’m considering buying a 2011 15" that someone is selling “for parts” with an original invoice, after making sure the owner didn’t contact Apple to report the problem, and try again under my sister’s or my mom’s name.

 

[quaccOS]

It’s the same for me with the Mac not booting. I left it for three hours with the fans spinning. Then I turned it off. Then I did a reset SMC. It booted. Try that.
I’m going to try it later, I’m still hesitating since I need my ssd for my new old mbp 2012 that I’m receiving on Wednesday, I’m considering cloning the disk with CCC on a simple HD and putting that HD inside to test it.
I’ll keep you posted if that work.
I’m gutted. I’m considering buying a 2011 15" that someone is selling “for parts” with an original invoice, after making sure the owner didn’t contact Apple to report the problem, and try again under my sister’s or my mom’s name.

If you do get it to boot, dosdude1's fix does work: http://dosdude1.com/gpudisable/, but you cannot control your screen brightness and sleep mode will break. You could close your Mac accidentally and it will not wake – you'd have to force shut it down. You can't update properly either…my cousin stays on the latest version of Mojave: 10.14.6 (18G103) without the supplemental updates – because those updates brick the Mac for some reason.

It would probably be best to save up for a 2015 15" Retina MBP with integrated graphics only…they are the best because they still have a scissor-switch keyboard, the Force Touch trackpad, and all the legacy ports too.

You're fighting a battle with Apple…I felt exhausted after a few minutes. It will be your responsibility to prove the defect…and you have to use Apple's diagnosis to prove it. Everything is rigged against you, so I hope you don't waste more time, for the sake of health which is not worth 3,000€

I'm still using my 2010 13" MacBook Pro, running patched Catalina with 256 SSD and 8 RAM upgrade…and I'm 18.
I'm going to buy the new 2020 16" for university with upgrades…if it even releases.

Edit: My parents really did buy me a base model MacBook Pro when I was 8 years old. It's still my first & only computer, so I'm going to go big on the next Mac.
I just wanted to fix my brother's Mac – he will find something else I'm sure. It's disappointing he didn't see the problem before the 6 years expired.

 

[Nessdufrat]

Arrrghh, not sure it's worth it... Sleep mode not working? That means I'd have to shut the computer down every time? Also, brightness not controlable? Can I at least control it from the system? I have eye hypersensitivity, with means all my computer screens have the brightness set to the minimum (1 bar for the laptops and zero for the desktop screens). If I cannot do that on the macbook, I won't even try all that stuff, because I won't be able to use it without seriously damaging my eyes.
I'll see how the 15" 2012 MBP behaves, it's not a bad computer. And also, I'm still hesitating about that MB 12" I was thinking about buying to replace my MBA 11" from 2012 (as a writing computer). I don't really need a laptop, I have a 2012 Mac Pro that I love to bits, and it's a great machine. Laptop is great to be working in front of the TV, especially for boring tasks like book layouts, but I guess the 2012 MBP should be powerful enough for that.
The only think that's really unnerving is that I sold 8GB ram a month ago that I took from a broken iMac 2013, and it was compatible with the 2012 MBP. Now I have to buy some ram because 4GB won't do it, and of course, all the offers I'm seeing are more expensive than what I sold mine for... :/
I had 16Gb in the MBP 2011.

**** has been piling on me for the last few days, I really needed a win. I hope I don't receive a brick on Wednesday.

 

[quaccOS]

Arrrghh, not sure it's worth it... Sleep mode not working? That means I'd have to shut the computer down every time? Also, brightness not controlable? Can I at least control it from the system? I have eye hypersensitivity, with means all my computer screens have the brightness set to the minimum (1 bar for the laptops and zero for the desktop screens). If I cannot do that on the macbook, I won't even try all that stuff, because I won't be able to use it without seriously damaging my eyes.
I'll see how the 15" 2012 MBP behaves, it's not a bad computer. And also, I'm still hesitating about that MB 12" I was thinking about buying to replace my MBA 11" from 2012 (as a writing computer). I don't really need a laptop, I have a 2012 Mac Pro that I love to bits, and it's a great machine. Laptop is great to be working in front of the TV, especially for boring tasks like book layouts, but I guess the 2012 MBP should be powerful enough for that.
The only think that's really unnerving is that I sold 8GB ram a month ago that I took from a broken iMac 2013, and it was compatible with the 2012 MBP. Now I have to buy some ram because 4GB won't do it, and of course, all the offers I'm seeing are more expensive than what I sold mine for... :/
I had 16Gb in the MBP 2011.

**** has been piling on me for the last few days, I really needed a win. I hope I don't receive a brick on Wednesday.

The brightness will always be on max…
You would have to buy this DyingLight module from Colin (@dosdude1): https://doslabelectronics.com/DyingLight.html. Colin dedicates a lot of time to keeping old Macs running on new macOS versions. Thanks to him I can run Catalina on my old Mac, when I should be running High Sierra.

This becomes an expensive, time-consuming hobby. It's like making an espresso-based coffee drink; there's a reason why we people pay 3.50€ for good coffee – making it yourself sucks. Money solves so many problems in the long-term, which is even hard for me to understand, as I'm not rich. My recommendation is to buy an Intel-graphics only Retina Mac so you can get on with life. You deserve a Retina Mac after all the sh*t you went through – then you can decide if to go for a 2020/21 Mac if you need to.

And if you buy a second-hand one, press D on startup for AHT, or Option-D for internet AHT to check for error codes. I spent €700 on a 2014 Retina 15" Mac that booted up slowly and charged very slowly because the seller tampered with it, and it had several owners. I gave up searching for second-hand Macs so I'm going to wait
Edit: I did return it to the guy for money back. He thought he could sell me a faulty Mac and I wouldn't notice…

 

[Nessdufrat]

There's not even a price for this dyinglight thing...
For the Macbook 12, if I buy it, I'm going for a new one (like, second hand, but a few months old with almost two years left on the warranty).
I'm giving up on the MBP 2011, then. I did see something else about bypassing the dedicated graphic card which didn't mention the brightness, but it was in passing and I'd have to read a bit more. It did involve a bit of soldering too.
I didn't choose to go with the retina MBP (I bought a cheap 2012 15") because I wanted to be able to put my two drives inside and get on with my work, and also because I saw it as a temporary solution before getting a new one from apple.
Seeing as I don't really have a lot of money to spare (maybe just the money for the MB 12", considering I would sell the MBA, and I sold my thunderbolt screen, my thunderbolt dock, as well as a few accessories belonging to the screen) and I recently got scammed out of $450 two months ago using a payment system similar to paypal (it's not like I gave my login or anything) and the bank doesn't want to do anything even with the police report, a brand new MBP isn't really in my future.
Like I said, some good news from Apple today would have brightened my whole week.

 

[Nessdufrat]

Oh, that's the one with the soldering : https://realmacmods.com/macbook-2011-radeon-gpu-disable/

 

[Queen6]

Well at least you both had a good go 👍 Pity Apple didn't see fit to offer some good will that it all so happily trades on, yet rarely seems to put into effect. Ultimately the hardware was flawed, Apple knew full well the 2011 MBP was an issue yet dragged it's heels as long as it possibly could until a losing court case was guaranteed, then took the bare minimum action. Sadly nothing much has changed with Apple for the better as the recent Butterfly keyboard debacle has all too clearly illustrated. I also agree Apple goes out it's way to make things as difficult as possible for the customer in such matters.

Most of all Apple's stance on such matters, which IMO occurs far too frequently with a brand that proports itself as being a premium provider, has only served for me to move all professional use and much of the personal use away from the platform. I simply don't trust Apple it's become far too obsessed with itself with little observance to the customer.

As for my own 2011 15" it's still soldiering on, majority of the other Mac's have long gone, nor replaced with Apple's hardware. As an individual or a company who relies in such hardware, how can you possibly continue with such a provider that excuses itself at all costs and blames the users on it's own shoddy design philosophy, poor QA/
QC and overriding corporate hubris...

Q-6

 

[quaccOS]

There's not even a price for this dyinglight thing...
For the Macbook 12, if I buy it, I'm going for a new one (like, second hand, but a few months old with almost two years left on the warranty).
I'm giving up on the MBP 2011, then. I did see something else about bypassing the dedicated graphic card which didn't mention the brightness, but it was in passing and I'd have to read a bit more. It did involve a bit of soldering too.
I didn't choose to go with the retina MBP (I bought a cheap 2012 15") because I wanted to be able to put my two drives inside and get on with my work, and also because I saw it as a temporary solution before getting a new one from apple.
Seeing as I don't really have a lot of money to spare (maybe just the money for the MB 12", considering I would sell the MBA, and I sold my thunderbolt screen, my thunderbolt dock, as well as a few accessories belonging to the screen) and I recently got scammed out of $450 two months ago using a payment system similar to paypal (it's not like I gave my login or anything) and the bank doesn't want to do anything even with the police report, a brand new MBP isn't really in my future.
Like I said, some good news from Apple today would have brightened my whole week.
––
Oh, that's the one with the soldering : https://realmacmods.com/macbook-2011-radeon-gpu-disable/

There have been problems with the dGPU for various MacBook Pros 15 & 17 inch, even up to 2014. That's why I recommend Integrated Graphics only, because of more possible dGPU risks…
It still disables the brightness: the only benefit to soldering is you can't undo the "fix" with software, such as a Terminal command. You might end up spending more money in the long term if you buy an old computer. And the old Thunderbolt accessories are obsolete, as everything has moved to USB-C – the new Thunderbolt. All of the Macs with butterfly keyboards are also a terrible purchase, because the keys break.

It's your choice, but I'd do whatever it takes to make sure I have something reliable.

Well at least you both had a good go 👍 Pity Apple didn't see fit to offer some good will that it all so happily trades on, yet rarely seems to put into effect. Ultimately the hardware was flawed, Apple knew fairly early yet dragged it's heels as long as it possibly could until a losing court case was guaranteed, then took the bare minimum action. Sadly nothing has changed with Apple for the better as the recent Butterfly keyboard debacle has all too clearly illustrated. I also agree Apple goes out it's way to make things as difficult as possible for the customer in such matters.

Most of all Apple's stance on such matters, which IMO occurs far too frequently with a brand that aligns itself as being a premium provider, has only served for me to move all professional use and much of the personal use away from the platform. I simply don't trust Apple it's become far too obsessed with itself with little observance to the customer.

As for my own 2011 15" it's still soldiering on, majority of the other Mac's have long gone, nor replaced with Apple hardware...

They're cold-hearted robots. Even their support team are robots…they repeat the same things over and over and refuse to answer questions that are taboo (clearly point out they are wrong).

I'm getting the 2020 16" Mac, because I've had a 2010 13" for so long. I think I deserve it…
Hopefully we will see mini-LED screens

Edit: I'd rather just buy the best 2015 Retina 15" Mac with the Intel-graphics only…but so far, they're too expensive. I'd be only willing to spend €700 max. If a new redesigned 16" comes out…I'm putting €3,500 on the table. Not because I have it, because work is more important. Having a reliable computer matters more than anything, especially when it's your work. This, MacBook Pro 15" "Core i7" 2.8 Mid-2015 (IG), is arguably the most reliable Mac available – but I can't find one that doesn't have severe damage or works without error codes. People sell you crazy sh*t online…

 

[Nessdufrat]

For me, it was a case of buying a cheap computer “in the meantime” to be able to work on my stuff, waiting for Apple to give me my new computer. I was pretty sure it was going to work, although I though it might take some efforts getting the diagnostic. I never imagined I would have problems with the invoice. Apparently, the guy I bought it from really screwed me.
I’m still using thunderbolt things. I have a thunderbolt external drive from WD, with 2x4Go, connected to my Mac mini. And also a thunderbolt SSD. I think that’s my two remaining thunderbolt things. I’ve moved to usb 3. I don’t have usb C, except for my new iPad Pro that I got in January. My Mac Pro doesn’t even have USB 3, I had to put a USB 3 pcie card to get it. I’m old fashion
I really liked the concept of the super light and small MB 12”, as I’m a writer and I take my MBA everywhere and it’s really getting old. The 13” MBA is too big for me.
I’m hearing such negative comments about it that I guess I’ll keep that old MBA a few more years, then

 

[quaccOS]

For me, it was a case of buying a cheap computer “in the meantime” to be able to work on my stuff, waiting for Apple to give me my new computer. I was pretty sure it was going to work, although I though it might take some efforts getting the diagnostic. I never imagined I would have problems with the invoice. Apparently, the guy I bought it from really screwed me.
I’m still using thunderbolt things. I have a thunderbolt external drive from WD, with 2x4Go, connected to my Mac mini. And also a thunderbolt SSD. I think that’s my two remaining thunderbolt things. I’ve moved to usb 3. I don’t have usb C, except for my new iPad Pro that I got in January. My Mac Pro doesn’t even have USB 3, I had to put a USB 3 pcie card to get it. I’m old fashion
I really liked the concept of the super light and small MB 12”, as I’m a writer and I take my MBA everywhere and it’s really getting old. The 13” MBA is too big for me.
I’m hearing such negative comments about it that I guess I’ll keep that old MBA a few more years, then

The 12" MacBook isn't very powerful and it has butterfly key switches.
You could buy a refurbished one but the price is a rip-off:

https://www.apple.com/fr/shop/refurbished/mac/macbook

I hope you find something comfortable for the meantime, then if Apple releases something really cool that is worth buying – maybe, maybe you should treat yourself after having to deal with so much sh*t. You could just avoid buying old Macs that have discrete GPU because the risk isn't always worth it…and at least 2012 so you can enjoy Catalina. None of the 13" models have dGPUs which makes them reliable.
e.g. a 14" MBP with a mini-LED display, Face ID, a powerful dGPU, no bezels etc would be really cool

When I say reliable, my MBP is 10 years old, and all I did is swap out the HDD for SSD.

 

[Peter.Mav]

The screen brightness worked for me after following the guide at http://dosdude1.com/gpudisable/

 

[quaccOS]

The screen brightness worked for me after following the guide at http://dosdude1.com/gpudisable/

MacBook Pro 8,3 [17", 2011] here on Mojave 10.14.6…I'm not sure how yours worked. Maybe you didn't install dosdude1's GPU disabler program, which is bearable if you never reset the NVRAM.

 

[Peter.Mav]

MacBook Pro 8,3 [17", 2011] here on Mojave 10.14.6…I'm not sure how yours worked. Maybe you didn't install dosdude1's GPU disabler program, which is bearable if you never reset the NVRAM.

Yea you are right. Screen brightness does not work once you reboot after the GPU disabler program.
I guess I didn't reboot right away and it was still working

 

[Queen6]

They're cold-hearted robots. Even their support team are robots…they repeat the same things over and over and refuse to answer questions that are taboo (clearly point out they are wrong).

I'm getting the 2020 16" Mac, because I've had a 2010 13" for so long. I think I deserve it…
Hopefully we will see mini-LED screens

Edit: I'd rather just buy the best 2015 Retina 15" Mac with the Intel-graphics only…but so far, they're too expensive. I'd be only willing to spend €700 max. If a new redesigned 16" comes out…I'm putting €3,500 on the table. Not because I have it, because work is more important. Having a reliable computer matters more than anything, especially when it's your work. This, MacBook Pro 15" "Core i7" 2.8 Mid-2015 (IG), is arguably the most reliable Mac available – but I can't find one that doesn't have severe damage or works without error codes. People sell you crazy sh*t online…

TBH that's why I've moved away from the platform for any professional/business related usage Apple is simply too untrustworthy to depend on it's hardware for a living. If there is any issue they will avoid completely and leave the customers high and dry until Apple knows it will loose in a court of law.

What Apple today want's is for the customer to make a major purchase in the desktop OS realm every 24-36 months, multiple purchases of IOS devices every 12-24 months and subscribe to as many services as possible. In the meantime filling up landfills with it's time limited, nonrepairable hardware. I wouldn't consider purchasing a used one especially a 15" as there have been far too many design issues with them over the years and people seem to think that they are worth far more than they really are.

Said for a long time now the best thing Apple sells is Apple...

Q-6

 

[Peter.Mav]

TBH that's why I've moved away from the platform for any professional/business related usage Apple is simply too untrustworthy to depend on it's hardware for a living. If there is any issue they will avoid completely and leave the customers high and dry until Apple knows it will loose in a court of law.

What Apple today want's is for the customer to make a major purchase in the desktop OS realm every 24-36 months, multiple purchases of IOS devices every 12-24 months and subscribe to as many services as possible. In the meantime filling up landfills with it's time limited, nonrepairable hardware. I wouldn't consider purchasing a used one especially a 15" as there have been far too many design issues with them over the years and people seem to think that they are worth far more than they really are.

Said for a long time now the best thing Apple sells is Apple...

Q-6

I don't have a problem with their hardware. And since I have had this MacBook Pro for 8/9 years now and it's only started giving me issues, I am happy with it. In fact this is the only product I have had fail on me.

With the dos dude software approach for the fix this will do me over for a month or so for when I purchase the new MacBook 16". I don't code on this machine anymore really so I am ok with it to be my browsing/email machine sitting next to me whilst I use my work pc.

Even though it's at the end of its life I installed 16GB RAM and a Samsung SSD and it still performs like the day I purchased it.

Don't get me wrong I am no Apple fan boy but I have to hand it to them, this MacBook Pro has lasted longer than any Windows laptop I have owned.

 

[Queen6]

For me, it was a case of buying a cheap computer “in the meantime” to be able to work on my stuff, waiting for Apple to give me my new computer. I was pretty sure it was going to work, although I though it might take some efforts getting the diagnostic. I never imagined I would have problems with the invoice. Apparently, the guy I bought it from really screwed me.
I’m still using thunderbolt things. I have a thunderbolt external drive from WD, with 2x4Go, connected to my Mac mini. And also a thunderbolt SSD. I think that’s my two remaining thunderbolt things. I’ve moved to usb 3. I don’t have usb C, except for my new iPad Pro that I got in January. My Mac Pro doesn’t even have USB 3, I had to put a USB 3 pcie card to get it. I’m old fashion
I really liked the concept of the super light and small MB 12”, as I’m a writer and I take my MBA everywhere and it’s really getting old. The 13” MBA is too big for me.
I’m hearing such negative comments about it that I guess I’ll keep that old MBA a few more years, then

I still have a remaining 12" Retina MacBook they can get the job done, equally; the keyboards are prone to failure (mine has jammed several times), USB C port can be come loose rendering external drives being problematic (mine did), the keyboard marks the display coating (mine has) and some just randomly die due to known component failure overall another quality product from Apple...

IMO better to look to an Air if your needing to stay on OS X, I think the new 2020 is not too bad as it's now more powerful and hopefully has a reliable keyboard and about the only Mac I'd remotely consider.

Q-6
[automerge]1590476421[/automerge]

I don't have a problem with their hardware. And since I have had this MacBook Pro for 8/9 years now and it's only started giving me issues, I am happy with it. In fact this is the only product I have had fail on me.

With the dos dude software approach for the fix this will do me over for a month or so for when I purchase the new MacBook 16". I don't code on this machine anymore really so I am ok with it to be my browsing/email machine sitting next to me whilst I use my work pc.

Even though it's at the end of its life I installed 16GB RAM and a Samsung SSD and it still performs like the day I purchased it.

Don't get me wrong I am no Apple fan boy but I have to hand it to them, this MacBook Pro has lasted longer than any Windows laptop I have owned.

I don't buy into Apple's hardware lasts longer as I've seen my fair share of Windows based notebooks lasting just a long if not longer as long as they are in the same pricing range. Looked at the 16" however still remains problematic in my mind, way too many are having issue with the internal and external displays. If I was to buy a new Mac it would be the new Air, equally I'd be giving up Touch & Pen support and need to carry another device so that's unlikely to happen.

Q-6